Anita,

I thought for a while and honestly I’ve had such a low self-esteem all along that I’d immediately think this is right but now that I try and look at facts a little, I’m sorry but with all due respect, I don’t agree Anita.

– Yes, I talked back with my mother, but I talked BACK. I didn’t start ever. I was never the child called out for being rude, arrogant or disrespectful to her parents on her own accord which I know a lot of my friends were, I’d seen them talk badly to their mother when she kept coming in their room again and again when I and other friends were at their house. I never did anything like that. Yes, what I wasn’t is submissive. I agree I have never been submissive. When my mom scolded me, I’d listen but when she said personal hurtful things, I would talk back. case in point: I would slouch sometimes as a kid, so mom would tell me stand straight, walk straight and I tried but I would then go back to slouching, one day when mom saw I was still slouching, she shouted at me, in front of the governess. ‘Stay like this only all your life’, nothing can happen of yours, look at so and so, when mom’s tell their child once, they listen, look at you, stay like this only, look like this only all your life’. At that point, yes, I would talk back. I would say mom you can’t say that to me, I am trying but don’t say that, okay I will look like this only, you don’t have to worry about me. And I agree that my voice would be loud and my words rude to match that of mom’s. And then mom would be like who talks back to their mother, look at so and so, they are so respectful, I am taking your nature because I am your mom, no one else will’. I know maybe I shouldn’t have talked back, maybe I could stay quiet and respect her more. So I wasn’t submissive, the cousins that my mom compared me to were. They are even today. One of them is in a marriage in a conservative family and she’s making it work exceptionally well because she takes her husband’s behaviour. Mom herself says today that why doesn’t she talk back when he sees how he treats her but then she’s like it’s good at least she makes it work somehow. I know that I couldn’t do what she is doing, I couldn’t clean the toilet only to hear my husband shout at me and tell me where all I haven’t cleaned properly and then stay quiet. I don’t know if that is right or wrong. I think it s wrong. Yes, you can say Anita that I am not very patient, not submissive and not very gentle when repeatedly provoked, but when provoked and repeatedly.

– As I grew up, and now when I confronted my mom, she agreed, my father agreed to not taking a stand for me. Even today mom tells me to do certain things but she doesn’t shout at me like that, also because I live away, but even when I was at their place for the Pandemic, she’d sometimes be annoyed that I slept late or that I didn’t have proper lunch but she doesn’t shout like that anymore and resultantly I have not once been rude or angry at her. Mom and dad today say and show in actions that their life would face an irreparable loss without me.

– My friends. Honestly the one thing that helped me have 1% self esteem left while growing up, it were my friends, right through childhood until now, I have had very healthy relations with all my friends. The two girlfriends I talked about, they are my friends since kindergarten. The two of them don’t really talk much together because they drifted apart but they are both very close with me. My friends today, my friends from college, my colleagues. At work, I have seen so many lash-outs, seniors lashing out at juniors over non-performance, I have never done that. I am one of the only two people at work who still have the same people in their team that they had 3 years ago because in all other teams, people are resigning and being fired. In fact, when I got the promotion, the one that a colleague mocked me about for being because of my physicality, one of the things I’ve always been praised for is my management skills and temperament. These things honestly I hadn’t ever consciously thought of but when I sat back to understand how I am an angry woman, I could not see it. Yes, I do have crippling self-doubt and so when anyone tells me, anyone so far being only my mom and ex, I do start doubting myself but the only reason that I fight back despite the doubt is because When I look at facts, I don’t see myself as being that. I don’t see myself as having a bad nature the way mom always said, yes I believed it for the longest time but when I think back, it factually never adds up. If I am so bad natured, how come I have the oldest friendships and the closest bonds when many of my friends have fought and parted ways? If I was bad natured as mom said, why today did she agree to being wrong, why did dad agree to not standing up for me. They still have fights among themselves so its not that a they have become different human beings but their conduct to me has changed.

– My assistant. I have the same assistant since the last 3 years, ever since I started working at my current company and she is more like a friend now. She always tells me how I never made her feel like an assistant and how I’d not shouted at her when she did so and so. We now laugh about all the times when she’d supposedly screw up and we’d go on fixing drive. Most of my colleagues vent out, shout and put down their assistants.

– My ex. After my mother, my ex is the only one that I had fights, arguments with. These are the only two people in life I have had arguments with. I know they are the closest to me and so my inner self comes out the most but with neither of them have I been irritable/name-calling which both of them have been to me. Yes, I stood up to them. Yes I agree that I didn’t take my mom’s scolding quietly, I dint take my bf’s neglecting me quietly. I speak up, I have always spoken up and my fault was that instead of realising that I should have been quiet after my speaking up had no effect, I went down to shouting, begging and crying. Yes I have been argumentative. Yes I have doubted if I am the problem because I did argue back and did not stay quiet when I saw my bf lying to me that he is at work when he was partying with his friends, I don’t have the knowledge and maturity to know that when someone pokes me, someone very close to me pokes me and don’t pay any heed when I say it hurts me, I should disengage. Instead I try and do anything to make them see they are hurting me. case in point, my ex as I think I’ve said before too would be all nice and everything and would suddenly start becoming busy. I’d be like okay, but then I’d see his friends social media posts and stories that he is out partying with friends and family and I’d feel bad, I’d call him try and talk, he’d be like it was one day rest I am very swamped can’t talk right now, but when I’d see that he is having time for everything but me, yes, one day I would lose my calm and call him repeatedly until he answered, I would tell him why is he doing this and I saw he is doing this and this and if I hold no importance why is he with me, how can he call me his life and treat me like this and he’d call me clingy, nagging, irritable and I’d argue back and he’d shout at me and I’d cry and in the last one year he’s then start name-calling and verbally abusing me. If I were angry, I would abuse him back, I have never Done that. Through the 5 years, I have never ever name-called him, verbally used abusives, or put him down even when he did. Yes, I have been argumentative. Yes I have spoken up when I feel I was being wronged and maybe I have been more emotional. Maybe some other girl must have been like cool he doesn’t want to talk to me I’ll go have my own fun, yes I couldn’t be that girl, I went after him, I wanted him to give me the importance that I felt I gave to him and that was deserved to me as a girlfriend but I wasn’t angry. He himself would say in our good times how its amazing that I am chilled out with him being friends with one of his exes, how he likes I am not the crazy jealous types.

So no, Anita, it is true I was not submissive, I stood up for myself when I felt wrong and my way of standing up might be wrong, I should said said once and disengaged but it wasn’t so easy, this was my mother and the man I wanted to marry, I couldn’t just disengage so I did argue, I did say you can’t wrong me like this, I was argumentative, I was a cry-baby, I was nagging and clingy maybe but I was not angry, I was hurt. With my closed ones with whom I have an equal relation, who don’t insult me or put me down, I have very good relations. Even with my father, he wronged me but because he wasn’t directly shouting insulting at me, I never spoke in any bad way with him, he has always on his own said that I have been a good daughter to him, yes, I felt wronged by him not standing up but had I been angry girl, I would be out there being bad with him.  Even now, see, in the last one year, when my ex kept calling, I didn’t call him anything bad even once, I was hurt, I was disrespected but not once, I would be quiet because I learnt that my talking back and arguing will not do anything, I texted don’t contact me but not once did I say anything abusive. My ex, he called me stupid, verbally abused me when I rejected him, asked me to keep my idiocy to myself and said I am a child. I have taken a lot from both my mom and my ex and an angry woman would have broken ties with them, an angry girl would have been easily slighted, easily irritated, I wasn’t. I’d listen until it became very personal and then I’d argue. I have seen enough easily irritable, angered people in my life to know that I am so not one of them. Yes I WAS A HURT CHILD AND A HURT GIRLFRIEND and I am making the distinction because had I been angry, I think I would have become irritable, I would be lashing out at being even little slighted, I would have become aggressive arrogant and been short tempered but I wasn’t. I was hurt, and so I became self-doubting, a little quieter as a personality and more than shouting, I would cry and beg. It was my mom herself who said that I don’t even stand up t my bf anymore, I just cry.  I was a hurt child/gf Anita, I think, not an angry one. Honestly I’d been happier to be the angry one, it’d be better if I could just yell and insult and go around thinking as if I am the boss of the world, which is what I feel maybe my ex now thinks rather than being left as the crying begging woman who keeps spinning in self-doubt.

I know I am many things Anita, but after all the little work that I have tried doing on myself in the last one year with reading and de-clouding my life’s narrative off what my mom and my ex kept telling me and instead seeing facts, I can for once say that I was not an angry child/girlfriend. I was a hurt child/girlfriend, not an angry one. We do use them interchangeably but I think they are not  the same.

I am sorry Anita if any of this sounds rude, I know I’m getting defensive but I did think hard all day yesterday about it and tried to look at the truth, trust me I have the highest regard for you, you are helping me so much but this is just something I felt and thought I could say it to you. But feel free to say what you feel. If I am missing something, I’d like to see that. I’d await your reply.

Love

Jenny

Anita,

In my last post, after very long, I looked at myself objectively and focussed on facts about me rather than all the negative self-talk. Thank you for understanding it. One of the bigger reasons why I am now able to look at myself for more of what I truly am, is because of my interactions here. Thank you so much. I feel so liberated today. I’ll try keeping my posts short.
The answers to your questions:

1. My arguing with my mother was exactly as I mentioned in the slouching example. With my ex, the fights were only because he’d be inconsistent and hot and cold.
Example: We generally had one proper conversation daily (daily as in for a few weeks before he’d become busy) which was shortly before bed-time. generally he’d call because whenever I’d call, he’d be busy so it was settled that when he is free, he will call. Say one night he doesn’t call, I message/call him, he doesn’t answer, neither does get back to me all night. Next morning he’ll message, ‘sorry was busy then slept early, didn’t see the phone’, I’d find it weird but be like okay. But he won’t call me. In the evening, when I’d go online, I’d see he is online but hasn’t called all day, I’d leave it again. At night, I’d message, ‘you could call once, R. Please call when free.’ He’d reply, very busy baby, will call when free. People at home’. The same would go on for days, some days I’d see he is partying with friends and then finally one day I’d call him multiple times, and say
J: what is this, I’ve been waiting all these days, one minute you could have called.
R: I told you I’ve been busy.
J: Yes, I get it, I am not wanting you to chat with me all day but maybe you could call me once in all these days for one minute, we can all take out a minute, I am also busy. When you have time for family friends, don’t I deserve some time?
R: Yes, okay but you need to understand, okay I have to go, I’ve some work.
J: No, R, talk to me today, you have to talk to me today, you always push me away when you have more important stuff
And then he’d either just hang up on my face or shout that I don’t understand anything at which I’d be like stop shouting at me, how can you do this to me, where am I in your life etc etc. This would drag on till one day I’d cry and he’d be like stop crying, okay I am sorry and the cycle would restart with him being super loving for a couple weeks. Eventually I broke so much that the initial conversation was skipped and I direct called him crying.

2. I would cry Anita, while arguing back but I didn’t beg in front of mom. I did in front of R.
3. We were in different cities, same country and would meet almost monthy, one weekend. Initially he’d come more but eventually I was the one who travelled to him more. We did spend time together but obviously more was on calls/skype.

4. We wanted short-distance, in fact I was planning to look for job opportunities in his city, he also at least said that he’s trying to look for one in mine.

Frankly Anita, I am done with that relationship, mentally and emotionally. The more I talk about it here and in my head, the more I realise how one-sided and toxic it was, it was a fairytale in my head but the reality was so different and ugly. In the last few days, I read the book, ‘why does he do that’? a friend suggested, its a book on abusive treatment and there was so much that resonated Anita, the conflict avoidance, the name-calling, the hot and cold, so much. R in no way was any Prince-charming that I imagined him to be. I don’t know what he was but he definitely was not what I imagined him to be.

Love
Jenny

Anita,

– Regarding rudeness with mom, this only, talking back. Basically since childhood, I have been told that talking back at parents is bad. Mom literally said ‘you’ve not seen what all parents tell to their children still they listen’. She always said I talk back as if I am as old as her. Regarding rudeness, these things only, ‘you can’t say this to me, I am trying, yes I am not like so and so and I dont even want to be, I remember I once said if you like her more mom, make her only your daughter, just leave how I look and talk alone, I am not some project’. These things basically, though obviously I could have said them in a lower voice and maybe stayed quieter in places. I remember I once told mom in my teens that even a child has respect, you have all rights to call me out on a fault but even though you are my mother, how can you make personal comments about my nature, over which mom had gotten very annoyed at me, so I did talk back more than I should have maybe and crossed lines.

– I don’t know about sadistic Anita but I do see him as very abusive now after reading and reflecting a lot.
I read in that book that ‘inability to raise grievances without being called unreasonable’ is a sign of abuse, R would always put me down for any grievance I had, even his mannerisms, he’d sometimes grab my arm and ask me to shut up, walk out of arguments or hang up the phone, he’d be very loving one moment and then next moment very distant, he’d often walk ahead of me, he was also majorly into parties and his boy night-outs which I was cool with but him constantly picking them above me made me think if we marry, I might sit at home while he parties, he’d never show me any affection in public at all, he always was more concerned about being proper in public at my cost (I had a little bit problem with a dress at a formal function and when I asked for his help, he said very rudely that don’t embarrass me and go to the washroom), even now, I mean he called me for an year and now when I finally called him one time, he disconnected and blocked me as if all he wanted was control and an ego-boost. I think he wanted things on his terms and had no respect for me as an individual. I read in that book that abuse is not about feelings, its about mentality and what we see in our culture. He did say that his father was irritable towards all of them and he did have trouble getting along with him though I didn’t probe.

Jenny

Hi Anita,

Wish you a very Happy Women’s Day!

I am good Anita. Things are slowly but surely looking up. I feel peaceful now, now that I’ve changed my number, I’m not on a constant roller-coaster due to R’s calls. Some days initially did feel a little difficult, I hadn’t realised that as toxic as they were, I had gotten used to seeing his calls. But I feel much calmer now. I also strangely feel so much more capable. Just last night, I was thinking how much I’d underestimated myself at a point of time by saying I cannot live without this and that or without R and now I feel so good about myself knowing that I not only survived but I’m moving towards better things.

How have you been?

Love,

Jenny

Aww that’s very sweet of you to say that, Anita. Yes, now I know I deserve and will have a much better man. But honestly I’m not wanting any relationship now. For the first time in my 20s, I’m single. It’s like there’s a host of things that I want to do now, things that I hadn’t even thought of earlier because so much of my time was consumed by my relationship. I’d just remained limited to my relationship and my work. Now I want to focus on myself for a while. I love singing, always have but never went beyond singing amid friends. Now I can’t wait for the pandemic to be over so that I can join group classes and develop music as my hobby. I’ve started working out with more focus, eating healthier and feel physically and mentally so much healthier. I’m not closed to coming across someone nice but right now, for the first time,  I feel content by myself. It is so weird Anita how unhealthy relations can limit your life so much. I don’t have regrets because I know the relation taught me a lot but I never knew that relationships can affect one so much.

I hope you feel good after the vaccine shot. Vaccination has started here as well. I just hope we come out of this pandemic soon.

– Jenny

Hi Anita,

How are you? I just felt like talking tonight.

Something a little weird is happening Anita, I wonder if you might have an answer to it. Its been around a month or so since I’ve changed my number and hence have had no calls/texts from R. While on the whole, I am feeling much calmer and stable, a part of me feels very weird. It’s like feeling rejected all over again by him, it’s as if he left me all over again and in a weird sort of way, I am missing his calls. I mean I myself changed my number to be away from him and now I am wondering why is he not doing something to reach out. I find myself wondering if he has moved on to another girl or has stopped thinking of me. I know I don’t want to be with him, in my head I also know that I never want to be with him again, I’ve also introspected and I know that even if I see his call flashing on my phone right now, it won’t bring me any real happiness as I never want to go down that road again but I still feel weird. Why? Is it that due to his regular calls the whole year, I’d become used to them and I’m just experiencing some kind of a withdrawal affect?
When I changed my number, I’d told my friend whose number he has, to not give him my number if he calls asking for it. Two days back when she called and said that thankfully he hasn’t called asking for my number, I felt, I can’t really explain the feeling, it was a mix of ‘finally, thank god’ and ‘so he is moving on?’. Last night I dreamt of him with some other girl and woke up feeling uncomfortable, not particularly sad but just uneasy. I think I’m feeling that the relationship has finally come to a close with him also giving up on calling and maybe it is just a passing feeling due to that. What do you think, Anita?

On the more positive note, I went on a date a few days back, my first since the breakup. He’s an old acquaintance of mine who I knew liked me since long and when he figured I’m single, he asked me out, and I went. I had a really good time Anita and though I’ve let him know that I want to focus on myself right now and am not wanting a relationship at this moment, we’ve decided to stay in touch as friends. 🙂

Love,

Jenny.

• This reply was modified 3 years ago by jenny.