Home→Forums→Relationships→Does he like me?
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December 20, 2022 at 11:12 am #412214TeeParticipant
Dear Katrine,
I think I understand the events now, just this bit I don’t get:
No I wasn’t invited to her birthday everybody from my region was invited down to her place (they moved in together before this) but she excluded me under the pretext that we celebrate both her and my dads birthday together. So my parents didn’t see it as me being excluded but rather a practical thing. My sister never wanted to share her birthday party with him before.
Does it mean that she celebrated her birthday twice: once with her friends and her boyfriend (an event to which she didn’t invite you), and another time with your father, when you were there too?
It seems she didn’t really want you on her birthday, and to be honest, I think it’s better if you don’t have too much contact, since she tends to accuse you and blame you for the things you haven’t done, and you get bad anxiety around her. So it’s best you stay away, although it’s painful, I know. Specially since, as you say, she has a child now and it would be nice to be close to your nephew and spend time with him, and them as a family.
But I wouldn’t want to be around her either, if all I get is guilt-tripping and accusations. That being said, I think it would be important for you to process through some stuff so you don’t get so anxious around her any more, i.e. that her words can’t hurt you so much any more. Because right now, you get very easily triggered around her and your anxiety spikes (you had a panic attack when she accused you of not coming to your nephew’s christening on purpose), or you react with anger and resentment, and then people judge you for your reactions.
So you’d need to learn how to better self-regulate when around her. I think the key thing would be not to believe what she is saying about you. Not to believe her when she says that you are a bad, selfish person. You would need to know that you’re a good, well-meaning person, so that when she starts spilling her accusations, you can just ignore it. That would be Number 1.
Also, I think you should accept that your sister might never change her opinion of you (she might even have some narcissistic tendencies, or her illness made her very self-centered). So when she tries to guilt-trip you into doing what she wants, that you don’t give in. You don’t try to please her so she would think better of you. Perhaps you’re already doing this part – you have stopped trying to please her and you’re paying more attention to your own needs and your own health.
If you know her character and her opinion of you, you can be better prepared and better shield yourself from her toxic remarks. You can take them more calmly, because you know they’re not true. You don’t need to quarrel with her and try to prove that she is wrong. It’s being like teflon (non-stick pan) – her remarks just fall off of you, they don’t stick. You don’t take them to heart, you don’t believe them. They go in one ear and out the other. It’s not easy to achieve, but I think this should be your goal.
The more self-love you have, the less will her words hurt you. Her opinion of you won’t matter to you so much. You’ll be free.
And then perhaps you’ll be able to be around her at certain family events, and it will cause you less anxiety. You’ll be able to behave more naturally with other people, such as your brother-in-law. If he still doesn’t like you, well then it’s his problem. But you will be more relaxed and won’t feel in such danger any more.
Of course, it’s easier said than done, but that’s something to aim for, I think. Maybe before going home for Christmas this year, try to do affirmations (I am lovable, I am worthy), and also try to practice being like teflon. For example, you can imagine that she accuses you of something – how would you react? Can you remain calm, knowing that her words are not true?
December 21, 2022 at 2:10 am #412248TeeParticipantDear Katrine,
it also seems to me that your sister uses other people to promote her agenda, so to speak. Because you said one of her friends called you after you couldn’t make it to the meet-her-boyfriend event, and accused you of being passive aggressive because you didn’t come. So it’s not that your sister called you directly, but she probably spoke badly of you and convinced her friend to call you on her behalf. Her friend was her “emissary” and acted on her behalf. That’s called triangulation.
It seems she is doing it with your father too: she called him a week after her boyfriend’s birthday party and told him how upset she (and others) were with you, and that there would be consequences. Again, she didn’t call you directly, but she used your father to be her mouthpiece.
So it seems to me that she likes presenting her as the victim and turning other people against you. And your father has unfortunately played to her tune, it seems, because he took her side in conflicts. For example, when she accused you of using the wrong tone of voice, claiming that that was the reason for her tantrum, your father believed her and accused you as well (my dad refused to believe that there wasn’t anything in the tone of my voice). He didn’t tell her something like “throwing a tantrum is not an acceptable behavior, even if your sister used a wrong tone of voice.” He automatically took her side.
And I believe it was regularly like that, because you said he was emotionally detached most of the times. Such people prefer to be left out of conflicts and just enjoy their “peace”. So I can imagine he often blamed you for disrupting that peace by “upsetting” your sister. He wasn’t interested in deeper reasons behind the conflict, he just wanted “peace” in the house, and in his mind it was you who was responsible for upsetting his peace. Would you say this is how he behaved: detached, and then accusing you if there was conflict?
Your mother was probably different, but maybe she too expects you to be on good terms with your sister, no matter how your sister treats you? (my mom was devasteted when i told her i am keeping my distance now.) Has she shown any empathy, any understanding for your side of the story, or she blames you for wanting to keep your distance?
December 21, 2022 at 3:01 pm #412302Katrine NielsenParticipantHi Tee,
Yes, she was celebrating twice once at my parents house (and my dad’s birthday, a two day event where her and her boyfriend stayed with us) and then a week later she celebrated her birthday where everybody from my region were invited apart from me. It was the first birthday where I wasn’t there and I knew that it probably wouldn’t look good to others if I didn’t show. On her actual birthday me and my mom (she had a day off work) went to the city to do some shopping and my dad had planned to go out and do some stuff with his brother (who is rarely home) and she called my mom and got really angry that we didn’t drive the two hours down to celebrate. But we had already celebrated her birthday so we didn’t see any need for us to do it again.
It felt very like a case of two evils because as you said my anxiety around her is too high and I wouldn’t have enjoyed it, and she clearly didn’t want us there. I have to deal with a lot of feelings around betrayal when it comes to her. She even tried talking my parents into having my cat put down (I’m a huge animal lover) she has allergy so the couple of times the would come to visit we had to clean the entire house and keep my cat in another room. But she didn’t like that.
I have heard a lot from other people (that girl, and my dad and other people) about me being the bad person. I was soo relieved after his 30th birthday party, I did so well and talked with his siblings like I had know them for a long time and then the horror when I heard what she told my dad. growing up I wasn’t really allowed to talk about the positive things I experienced because she would feel jealoux (because I have better mobility and can travel and do stuff she can’t) but when I wasn’t feeling well she would have it worse. My parents would rather let her have her way so to avoid those tantrums. I can’t say I blame them, the mental load dealing with her in those situations, you could spend half a day trying to calm her down, and when you are exhausted you just don’t have the capacity.
Yes I would say that my dad seem detached I think it comes from his own childhood. My grandmother wasn’t very easy to be around, and when it was me my sister and my mom who got the worst treatment from her to the point we didn’t want anything to do with her he thought we were exaggerating. And then she started talking it out on him and he too didn’t want any contact with her.
My mom is listening way more to me now. She is still in denial about a lot of her behaviour (exactly like I was) making excusses for her behaviour. But she has started showing more understanding to my situation and I think that the fact that neither me or my sister living at home has been very good for there mental health. They seem to have more ressources now.
I’m gonna take your advise about dealing with my sister. I am only going home for a few days and I don’t want to spend them dysregulated and anxious, I really want to have a good time and enjoy the holidays as I hope you and Anita also will have.
December 21, 2022 at 3:05 pm #412303Katrine NielsenParticipantHi Anita,
Yes I have read the same and I definitly feel it. I used to be really good at maths and remembering new things, I just can’t do that anymore, and it doesn’t take too much before I get stressed (like really stressed) and it’s been very helpful to know this as to not feel so stupid because of my limitations.
I hope the new year brings many good things and to you and Tee as well!
December 22, 2022 at 2:28 am #412313TeeParticipantDear Katrine,
she called my mom and got really angry that we didn’t drive the two hours down to celebrate. But we had already celebrated her birthday so we didn’t see any need for us to do it again.
Well yes, earlier she said she didn’t invite you to the party at her place because she would celebrate separately within the family circle. And then she got angry at you and your parents because you didn’t come to a party to which you weren’t invited in the first place?? Wow, that’s something! That’s some serious manipulation. It cannot be explained away by her being in pain or anything like that. It’s pure manipulation, if you ask me. It’s abusive.
How did your parents react to it? Have they still tried to excuse her behavior?
I have to deal with a lot of feelings around betrayal when it comes to her. She even tried talking my parents into having my cat put down (I’m a huge animal lover) she has allergy so the couple of times the would come to visit we had to clean the entire house and keep my cat in another room. But she didn’t like that.
That’s quite heartless in fact. Because you did clean the house before she arrived and put the cat in another room. But it wasn’t enough – she wanted your cat to be put down. It shows she has no empathy for you (or the cat). Very selfish and cruel.
All this tells me, Katrine, that your sister has strong narcissistic tendencies. Whatever the cause is (whether her illness or something else), it seems to me that you were subject to narcissistic abuse by your sister, and your parents were her enablers. They excused her narcissistic abuse and accused you if you protested. You were put between the rock and the hard place – nowhere to go, nowhere to get compassion and understanding.
She [your mother] is still in denial about a lot of her behaviour (exactly like I was) making excusses for her behaviour.
Your parents excused her behavior, and they conditioned you to excuse it to this day. They didn’t defend you, and that’s why you believe that nobody cares about you. Because the two most important people in your life didn’t care about you (I mean, they behaved like they didn’t care about you – that was the net effect of their behavior, even if they didn’t mean to hurt you).
And the third most important person in your life – your sister – was abusing you. And you had a mean grandmother too, who told you that having a bird pet constitutes animal abuse! So there was no one in your family to protect you.
No wonder you have such a strong anxiety and believe that no one cares about you. Because it was unfortunately true for your immediate family. You were a collateral victim of your sister’s illness and her narcissism. The problem is that your parents didn’t recognize the narcissism, and attributed her behavior to her illness. And so they became her enablers.
Your father seems to be still enabling your sister, i.e. accusing you and excusing her. Whereas your mother is now at least willing to hear you out:
My mom is listening way more to me now. She is still in denial about a lot of her behaviour (exactly like I was) making excusses for her behaviour. But she has started showing more understanding to my situation
So your mother is still in denial about your sister’s manipulative behavior – she is still excusing it. But at least she shows some empathy towards you, unlike your father. That’s good. You can tell her (when you’re alone with her) that you find your sister’s behavior manipulative. As a glaring example you can mention your sister’s birthday: that first she didn’t invite you and then was angry when you didn’t show up.
So you may try to talk to your mother and help her see how your sister’s behavior is very selfish and manipulative (regardless of what caused it). And you can tell her it has hurt you a lot over the years, and that you don’t want to excuse it any longer. And that’s why you’re keeping your distance. You can then see how she will react to that – whether she will keep defending your sister, or will realize some things.
I’m gonna take your advise about dealing with my sister. I am only going home for a few days and I don’t want to spend them dysregulated and anxious
Yes, try to not take your sister’s comments to heart – be like teflon. Don’t feel bad about yourself, even if she tries to make you feel bad or provokes you. It won’t be easy, since you still have some healing to do, but make the first steps. Try not to be upset by her nastiness and her sense of entitlement – rather, expect it, be prepared for it, and don’t react to it. Stay calm as much as possible.
You can post here and tell us how it is going. I am rooting for you, Katrine. And I too wish you pleasant, as calm as possible holidays, centered in yourself, in the knowing that you are a good and loving person, and that your worth doesn’t depend on what your sister thinks and says about you. If it helps you, you may repeat to yourself “I am free from her influence”, or simply “I am lovable, I am free”.
December 22, 2022 at 2:34 am #412314TeeParticipantSorry, I made a mistake in one sentence. It should read like this:
Your parents excused her behavior, and they conditioned you to excuse it too.
December 22, 2022 at 2:30 pm #412367AnonymousGuestDear Katerine Nielsen:
Thank you for your holiday wishes! I didn’t tell you this before, but will you be surprised to know that my birthday happens to be on the very same day as yours? And similar to you, year after year, I was sad that the whole world was celebrating my birthday.. except for me (lonely and alone). When I am asked about my birthday, I no longer share on what day it is. (At one point along the way, I decided that I no longer recognize my birthday to be on that particular day).
You wrote that you will be spending only a few days at home for Christmas/ New Year’s, and that you wish to not spend those days dysregulated and anxious, and that instead, you want to have a good time and enjoy the holidays. Here is what I suggest: plan your visit well, plan the following: (1) what topics you will bring up, and what topics you will not bring up, (2) list possible behaviors by any one of your family members (what they might say and/ or do, or fail to say and do, based on what they said and did in the past), and for each possibility, state exactly how you will respond (what you will say and do, if anything), (3) list a few things for you to do when you find yourself dysregulated during the visit, for example: go for a brisk walk outside, make yourself a hot bath and soak in it, post on tiny buddha, etc. When you are with your family visiting and you feel dysregulated, look at your list and choose one of the things, according to what is available (given weather, time of the day, and other circumstances), (4) Have with you at all times, during your visit, a small toy animal, or some furry or otherwise comforting object. When you feel dysregulated during the visit, or when you feel the beginning of elevated anxiety, touch or pet the object and repeat a relaxing mantra to yourself, for example: I am calm and regulated.
The more prepared you are, the better your visit is likely to be!
anita
December 25, 2022 at 7:03 am #412615TeeParticipantDear Katrine,
merry Christmas! How are you holding up?
December 27, 2022 at 2:35 pm #412703Katrine NielsenParticipantHi Tee,
Merry Christmas.
Sorry for my very late reply but haven’t been able to catch my breath yet.
Yeah my mom said you know her, she just need someone to take her anger out on and I remember thinking that’s not okay. That’s not how you treat people. So still a lot of excusses unfortunatly. At least it’s getting better.
Your right she does have a lot of narcissistic tendencies. And it’s hard because there’s good days too and then you kinda forget about the bad days, your just hoping that you can get back to the good times. But she has hurt me so much, and there’s a lot of grief in that, expecially not having anyone to defend you only myself. Reading back the last couple of posts I realised that me reacting soo strongly to not being invited (and still does hurt) to the guys birthday makes sense. My sister has excluded me several times and it got triggered because they were my primary group of friends and I was the odd man out. I remember that during the pandemic her and her boyfriend would drive the two hours to my parents (where I was living at home, after losing my job and everything) and say hi to us and then go for lunch at a girls house that I am no longer friends with because of my sister telling lies about me. Being exluded by the two of the closests people in my life (only had two friends and my sister back home) and for them to become best friends because of my sisters lies about me is so hurtful I can’t explain it. And seing my sister open a present from her on Christmas eve did hurt, but I maneged to not get too emotional.
It’s been getting better my dad even took my side when she got angry about the christening, but it’s obviously doesn’t erase what happened.
Christmas Eve went way better than I thought. My sister behaved very well (probably because we were talking about her and the baby most of the time) any time something about me came up she didn’t react she just changed the subject. But still way better than being under attack. Her boyfriend even looked me in the eye and hugged me goodbye, that’s a first!
Things have been going well the past week.
The cute guy have been smalltalking with me and I didn’t get too anxious which is good. I have been going out with my collegues and asked them to do stuff with me and not only did they say yes, but also came up and said that we need to find a date. That means a lot to me, I am used to be the one asking and then asking again to make it happen, so now I know that they really do want to spend time with me, and it’s a lot of different groups of people so that makes me very happy!
December 27, 2022 at 2:43 pm #412704Katrine NielsenParticipantHi Anita,
Merry Christmas.
What a coincident! Then you exactly what it feels like. Being alone on your birthday with nobody to celebrate with is hard, but knowing that everybody else is having a party with their friends is just too much. And nowadays with all the social media definitly doesn’t make it easier!
Christmas went better than I thought, I think that her having a child takes the heat off of me. I also got to spend time with my cousins where my sister wasn’t there and it gave me a changed to show more of myself and socialise and it was so enjoyable and I’m glad to see them for the first time in a year!
December 27, 2022 at 5:35 pm #412715AnonymousGuestDear Katrine Nielsen: I will reply further Wed morning, assuming I will have internet then (it is currently Tues 5:35 pm here).
anita
December 28, 2022 at 12:45 am #412730TeeParticipantDear Katrine,
I am so glad that your Christmas went well, even better than you expected! And that you’ve been going out with your colleagues and that they have a genuine interest to hang around with you. They don’t reject you but in fact welcome you with open arms. That’s so precious and reassuring! And you even managed to do some small talk with the guy you like and didn’t get too anxious. These are all very good news. I am happy for you!
Your sister spreading lies about you is a hallmark of a narcissist. You wrote in another thread (Feeling betrayed), in April 2021, that you had two close friends, and one of them was spreading lies about you to the other. As a result, they stopped being friends with you, and instead became best friends themselves:
I had a close friend. We had been good friends for years, and never had an argument or so. But then that changed. We had made plans to meet up, but on the day I had a meltdown due to stress. I was so stressed out like just crying my eyes out. So I cancelled, and she said okay no worries. Then over the next few months I couldn’t really make plans with her, she kept backing out. I then called her to say if it’s about the plans that I cancelled I’m so sorry that i did it on the day and cutting it so close. She got angry and said it wasn’t that I cancelled, it was the fact that i did it on purpose to deliberately hurt her because I had been angry with her for a month. I hadn’t been angry with her at all or anyting like that. I told her the truth of what had happened that day, that caused me to have a meltdown. She didn’t believe me. She said a friend of mine had revealed my vicious plan to her and that she thought she had a right to know about it. I was in chock. Someone i trusted told lies to her behind my back, and my friend believed her over me. They have now become best friends over this, and I have been left an emotional wreck.
So this friend of yours who revealed your “vicious plan” to the other friend and caused the friendship to fall apart – was she influenced by your sister? Was it your sister who first spread lies about you to one friend, and then this friend repeated those lies to your other friend?
I remember that during the pandemic her and her boyfriend would drive the two hours to my parents (where I was living at home, after losing my job and everything) and say hi to us and then go for lunch at a girls house that I am no longer friends with because of my sister telling lies about me. Being exluded by the two of the closests people in my life (only had two friends and my sister back home) and for them to become best friends because of my sisters lies about me is so hurtful I can’t explain it. And seing my sister open a present from her on Christmas eve did hurt, but I maneged to not get too emotional.
This is horribly hurtful, and I am so sorry about it, Katrine. To lose two close friends because of your sister’s lies. But it also shows those two friends have some issues and blind spots, if they could believe your sister so easily. You did say that one of them is diagnosed with BPD, so that could be a reason why she believed your sister.
People with BPD are very black-and-white thinking, and so I can imagine she felt “rejected” by you when you cancelled the meeting, and believed that it was a proof that you “don’t like her”. When another person told her lies about you (that indeed, you’re a bad person and that you cancelled on purpose to deliberately hurt her), she easily fell for it, because she wanted to believe it. That’s how she saw the world – either with her or against her.
only had two friends and my sister back home
You had only 2 close friends, and they were also friends with your sister, right? You didn’t have friends independently of your sister? If so, it’s quite possible that they were all influenced and manipulated by her, and eventually served as her “flying monkeys”. Flying monkeys are people who believe the narcissist and blame the victim. Perhaps the girl who angrily called you after you didn’t come to meet-your-sister’s-boyfriend event is one of those 2 friends whom you’ve lost since?
I am so glad that you’re making new friends now, independently of your sister. And that they are good people who appreciate you and have good intentions towards you!
December 28, 2022 at 10:46 am #412769AnonymousGuestDear Katrine Nielsen:
I am glad that you had a good Christmas and that it was better than what you expected it to be! Also, finally, I have someone (you!) who understands and has shared my very personal birthday experience over the years. I hope that your birthday experience this year will be different from previous years!
anita
December 30, 2022 at 1:25 pm #412868Katrine NielsenParticipantHi Tee,
Actually in the post feeling betrayed I was indeed talking about my sister and not a friend. I was too a shamed to say that it was my sister saying that, because at that time I still thought that we were so close so if she said I did it I must have done it. I was really confused especially since the girl believed it (she’s the one with bpd and the one who called me being angry) I even started thinking maybe I did do it cause why would they say it. I only had two friends at that time (apart from my sister) the one with bpd that I no longer talk to and my best friend (the one who always told me my sister was out of line) This all happened on my 30th birthday ( I am extremely sensitive on that particular day) and I was already exhausted coming home on holiday after been working three jobs abroad to keep myself above water.
They became best friends due to this lie. My sister would even bring her gifts from helping her with her computer but never said a simple thanks to me or my parents for putting aside our lives helping her out. It still hurts thinking about it.
At least the past weeks been going better. X and Y even invited me to join their New Year’s Eve party which I agree to. I’m gonna be very nervous, I’m arriving later than the others (something I always hated I need to be the first one there) I don’t know who or how many will be there so it will be challenging, but hopefully a good one!
A very happy New Year to you!
December 30, 2022 at 1:35 pm #412870Katrine NielsenParticipantHi Anita,
It is a huge relief to know that I’m not alone feeling this way about my birthday even though I’m not happy that you went through the same. There are so many expectations that you are supposed enjoy your birthday, and people always assume you have a big party when your birthday is on that particular day! I’m glad that you shared this with me. X and Y invited me to join their party and I’m gonna go even though I’m gonna be very nervous!
A very happy New Year and a happy birthday tomorrow!
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