deep connections outside marriage

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This topic has 10 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 10 years, 6 months ago by The Ruminant.

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May 16, 2014 at 3:01 pm #56422

Dez
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This is my first post here. I’m feeling uneasy about a new friendship my husband is developing with another woman he met on a retreat. He has a lot of integrity and I don’t think he would start a physical affair, but he is the kind of person who loves deep connection and intimacy and freedom and growth, and he feels a deep connection with this person. Our marriage has been going through really challenging times, many stressors, financial and with young children. We can become really defensive and reactive with each other. We’ve been on quite an emotional rollarcoaster the past year especially, and really since becoming parents together. I’m worried he is turning to this new friend to meet needs for connection, empathy, emotional intimacy… I was feeling anxious and so I snooped in his emails, which I feel badly about as he recently asked for my trust of his privacy. I found an email that she confided her feeling strong, rare connection with him and not knowing how to place herself in relationship. They have begun to call each other “sister” and “brother” to give themselves permission for a deep sharing and connection. She wrote that she felt happy about this way of naming their relationship, as it opened a future for them. I’m worried this is going to evolve into a deeper friendship between them that would be really challenging for me. I also don’t like that he is developing this kind of intimacy with someone who I think he is attracted to, or could be, and also since she is younger and single and I think she is falling in love with him (from what I could sense from her first email coming out about her feelings). But I also want to respect his desire to connect deeply with others, and for his needs for growth and inspiration and connection. I don’t know what to do about this. I’m worried if I tell him about my insecurities, that it will feel oppressive to him and just reinforce his needs for his autonomy. I don’t want to cave to my distrust, and yet I don’t want their relationship to develop a specialness that cuts into my connection with him. I want to get perspectives that would help expand my edge around trust, and also help me clarify what are healthy limits that are acceptable to request.

May 16, 2014 at 5:55 pm #56425
Inky
Participant
I think a lot of marriages has something like this cross its path. It’s not *un*natural, but who needs that energy around? Especially with little kids and working, etc.

1. May I recommend the book Kosher Adultery. It’s already ten years old, but it still rings true. Coupled with Kosher Lust. They tell all about this phenomenon and also remedies. They go into passion, jealousy, spouses, reasons, the way men and women think, and basically how to have a love affair with your spouse!

2. Here’s a story which contains many ways you could look at it:

My DH hates to hold hands. Hates it. Hates PDA. Hates it all. However! One fourth of July we’re at a party. An old friend of mine from High School was there. We were never together, but back in the day people would try to set us up. This one really would be like dating a brother (ew). DH meanwhile is all threatened! He starts, wait for it ~ holding my hand!! He says, “Let’s take a walk”. We take a mile long walk on the beach. He is still holding hands! Won’t let go!

The irony? HS friend wasn’t the one he should have been jealous of! A few years before another friend felt an intense emotional connection ~ with me! Like this girl. Emails. Confessions. “I love you”. I told DH. DH snorts and says, “Phht, he’s fat!” I’m all, “No, this is serious.” DH laughs.

Which character do you see yourself as? Are you sure about that? Can you change it?

3. Practical Advice: Have your own Mystique about you. Act happy! Look good! Sing! He will wonder what is going on with you! Entice him with your newness, your vibrancy! The girl? Don’t mention her at all. Leave the kids with him while you go out with girlfriends. Come back happy! Go on retreats of your own! Day trips! Come back inspired! Continue. You get the idea.

Your husband won’t rest until he finds out what (or who!) flipped the switch in you! Truthfully say, “No one.” Then have a long, deep talk. Say (in your own words!!!) the email confession back to him. That he is more than a husband, he is your Brother, your Twin Soul. That yours is the deepest connection ever.
- This reply was modified 10 years, 6 months ago by Inky.
May 16, 2014 at 7:56 pm #56428

Matt
Participant

Dez,

In contrast to inkrid’s kindly intended advice, which is centered around being manipulative (again, inky!), consider that a heart to heart is often scary, but if done with compassion, can lead to very favorable outcomes. Consider that your husband has some kind of need that is being filled by this new friend. If your hearts are still connected (and it sounds like they are) then his unmet need is most likely mirroring your own unmet need. So, what’s the need? What’s yours?

So, in the heart to heart, instead of a confrontation, instead of fearing his response, just try to walk hand in hand through the issue. Consider leading with a “hmmm, something is off here, flame is burning low… what do you want in our relationship? Whats missing for you? What would you like from me?” Then, listen close, and figure out what he wants. More flirting? More oral? More sensuality? More what? Then, be willing to adapt. Not as a sacrifce, such as only he gets his desires met… if you have desires or needs that prevent youn from feeling inspired to do those things, speak your piece. Find common ground. “Ah, let’s do it… if you’ll do this, I’ll feel comfortable doing that”, “I’ll totally be into that, if you can help me with this.”

Consider that something has eroded a bit (from stress, stagnation, poor communication etc) but can be rekindled with a little effort. During the heart to heart, the main thing is to say what feels right, even if its scary. Let it out, let your fear of losing him, your love for him, your desire for his tenderness all to pour out. “You don’t do that anymore”, approached with honesty “because you don’t do that anymore.” This will build your half of the bridge of reconnection. If you can keep it as mutual as possible, such as figuring out together what is missing and what you both want to see, then you both have a great chance at being able to find common ground.

Just as a for instance, perhaps what she brings him is a feeling of refreshment, of newness, of connection. If you’ve been burdened by stress, it makes sense that your creativity has been dim lately in the romance department. A common ground might be, he spends time rubbing your feet helping you unwind, you spend time kissing his neck, helping him wind up. Or whatever sings from the heart to heart.

Consider that if he is having romantic visions of this new woman, it may be quite tortuous for him. His promises and heart clashing with his needs and desires, wanting what he can’t have, not wanting what he does have… yikes, what a mess! If you open to him, let him know you want to try to help him meet those desires in the marriage, as long as he helps you in return, then the bridge will rebuild very quickly. It is possible that you two might find you have incompatible desires, but love is brighter than desire in most beings, so if you two turn toward one another, pour out your side of things, common ground usually blossoms simply.

If the distance is a little too vast right now to feel courageous enough to reach out to him in such a way, consider asking him on a date. Instead of assuming who he is, look on him with freshness. He’s not the same man you married, he’s grown. So have you. So, get to know him a little better, throw some flirty curiosity his way and you may be surprised how relieving it will be for him to know you want him in that way.

With warmth,
Matt

May 16, 2014 at 11:49 pm #56433

uju
Participant

Most marriage face such challenges. U just need to be patient abit. And have a heart to heart talk with him. I m sure he loves you enough to listen. Visit http://www.tinyphoenixx.blogspot.com for dating issues

May 17, 2014 at 12:18 am #56435

The Ruminant
Participant

Hello Dez,

I actually don’t have an advice for you, but I wanted to commend you for how calmly you are approaching the matter. I am actually kind of like your husband 🙂 I can relate to what you are saying about him. So, I am looking at this situation from another perspective, and the way that you say how you understand his needs is just really very lovely. For a freedom loving and curious person, it’s really scary to be confronted by someone who does not want you to be that way. So your understanding is very much appreciated, at least by me.

What is it that you need? What do you want for yourself? It seems that you want him not to slip away, but that’s about maintaining status quo. If his desires are deep connection and intimacy, then what are your desires?

May 17, 2014 at 4:07 pm #56458

Dez
Participant

Thank you so much for your sharings, really appreciated. I especially resonated with your replies Matt and the Ruminant (as I can’t manage to be anything but authentic about my feelings). I feel quite anxious and sad because I feel like this challenge is asking me to stretch beyond what I may be capable of, because of my insecurities and also a deep grief around the ways my conditioning is keeping me locked into patterns that aren’t good for me or for my relationship with my husband (all the old baggage and karma passed down generations). I’m feeling at a low point in my life, and not sure how I’ll be able to face this situation and not plunge into grief. Because I feel like what it’s asking is to step up and I don’t think I can feel “mudita” for his joy in this special connection he is developing with this new friend. In my heart of hearts I want this deep connection and intimacy with my husband, this tenderness and deep seeing one another, soul-sharing, seeing the preciousness in one another and the awe and inspiration, and yet I feel so overwhelmed with life, with our young children (still breast-feeding!) and also living quite isolated in another country and far from my many resources (sangha, friends, family, creativity, professional life…), so it’s been hard to even find the time to connect with each other (with my husband), so exhausted at the end of the day, and so low in inspiration. We had a weekend away together a few months ago for the first time just the two of us since our first child was born and it was amazing and felt like the early days, but most days we are struggling to get through the day. I feel like what I really need is space and time to reconnect with myself, to get my joy and inspiration flowing again, to find my center, before I can meet my husband in a really good space. Like I need to take care of a deep inner healing and not sure if my husband has the patience to hold my hand through it. I feel some sadness about this, because I feel like all I can offer him in this moment is my brokenness, but not the joy and light and inspiration that he’s longing for and I imagine finding with this new friend. Another deep need for me is patience, being loved even in the brokenness (this is one of our problem dynamics and my grief can overwhelm him). Another challenge will be that when my husband returns in about a week we’ll have family visiting for a couple weeks who will join me before he does, so won’t have the intimate space to really dive into all this. Unless I write him first… About his new friendship, I feel a need for honesty and transparency, and some reassurance that he wouldn’t speak or act in a way with her alone that he would feel uncomfortable in my presence doing. Basically I hope that he wouldn’t indulge in stoking the fire with her and creating a deep attachment, but I feel it’s almost inevitable, especially if she already has feelings for him, because what he’s interested in is soul-sharing, and he has a beautiful, inspiring soul (and so does she). I don’t think I could manage an open relationship, even if it stayed non-physical but if there were deep romantic feelings or even like a soul mate connection between them. Ahh, suffering to come… May it break me open. Praying that this chaos will lead us to a higher order of integration (worrying it will shatter us), maybe it’s the pefection of the universe offering just what is needed to grow beyond stagnation. Thank you kind hearts for your reflections, helping me clarify all this.

May 18, 2014 at 12:05 am #56467
The Ruminant
Participant
Dear lovely Dez,

Let us for a moment put aside the other possibly developing connection and focus on you. I really wish telepathy was real so that I could show you what I see and feel and wouldn’t have to type it all into rational sentences 🙂 There’s a lot I want to say.

“I feel like what I really need is space and time to reconnect with myself, to get my joy and inspiration flowing again, to find my center, before I can meet my husband in a really good space. Like I need to take care of a deep inner healing and not sure if my husband has the patience to hold my hand through it.”

I agree, that you need to take care of a deep inner healing, we all do, but it also seems as if you are only seeing worth in a being that is already strong and healed when connecting with other people. I don’t think that’s the case. If you would go to your husband and say “I feel scared and confused, but I want to open up to you, to be vulnerable with you. Could you please help me?” then isn’t that also creating a deep connection and intimacy? Healing each other can also be extremely intimate, and chances are that he needs healing and nurturing as well.

I think you are somehow not seeing your own capabilities and power in all of this. As if you only could have two states of being: either being defensive and appear strong, or showing your vulnerability and being completely weak in that moment. Are you afraid that if you open up, you’ll feel so raw that all kinds of scary feelings come to the surface and it not only overwhelms you, but your husband as well, and you end up becoming defensive again? What if you talk about this fear honestly and rationally before you try it?

Also, your husband is not your only source of love. You have children, who look at you with admiration and do not judge you. You are free to open your heart when you are with them and allow the love run freely back and forth. You can also love yourself. I personally had the most profound spiritual experience when I was in a support meeting and we were talking about not allowing love in. I was listening to another woman talking about it and I realized that it was I who did not let love in and that the problem was not that I wasn’t loved. The love was there, I just didn’t allow myself to have any. So in that moment I decided to change that and try. I decided that I would let my guard down and let the love in. I sat in my chair and focused on my heart and focused feeling compassion towards myself, like I would towards some other person. I also said quietly in my mind something like “please love me”. I felt this huge surge of energy flowing in. I wish I could say that it felt great, but I was so scared and felt quite nauseous 🙂 But I was determined, and just forced my muscles to relax instead of being tight, as they always were, as I was shielding myself. That love has not left my heart, and it changed everything for me. The point of my story is that we are the gatekeepers to our core and what nurturing gets through and what doesn’t. If we block love and care, then we’ll slowly wither and become even more desperate for someone to love us, to see us. But how can they love us or see us if we keep blocking the entry? A romantic relationship is not the only way to get nurturing love and a deep connection.

Now, it sounds like your willingness to be open-minded is clashing with your heart. You don’t have to accept any kind of extramarital relationships, regardless of their nature. I personally don’t think that there is any value in forcefully pushing oneself to accommodate a relationship pattern that is not suitable for you. That said, it would be better if you could think about such things only after you are in a place where you feel safe and secure regardless of other people. Where your source of love and safety lies within you, and is not attached to other people or events. That’s when it’s easier to judge whether something is appropriate or not. When I said that I like it that you are able to look at the situation with such calmness, I didn’t mean that you should just disband your own needs and feelings to accommodate the needs of your husband. I just meant that it is scary for the other person as well, if someone attacks who they are out of fear. For example, I like to be friendly with all kinds of people. It is in my nature. I am curious about people. If I was in a relationship where the man felt threatened by me being friendly with other men and he would try to solve the situation by trying to force me into changing my whole being or shaming me because of who I am, just because he would be scared, then that would be terrible. However, if he would tell me openly that it scares him when I am friendly with other men, and it concerns him what might happen, but would allow me to make the decision of what to do about it, it would be completely different. And if my loved one would be scared, then I would do anything in my power to make him feel that he was safe and loved in our relationship. The difference is not only in either being forceful or not, but also in showing one’s vulnerability. Being open, instead of being defensive. I think that it’s quite universal, that people react favorably to another one being open and vulnerable, and they react with defensiveness to other people’s defensiveness.

I hope you’ll get something out of all of that 🙂 Just, don’t be so hard on yourself and don’t compare your soul to the soul of another person. How your soul dances might be different to the other woman’s, but it is not any less enticing. Besides, you are his wife and the mother of his children. Your soul is the one he wants to see and be intimate with.
- This reply was modified 10 years, 6 months ago by The Ruminant.
May 18, 2014 at 12:41 pm #56482

Dez
Participant

Thank you Rumi for your thoughtful response. I think you intuited well that I feel reluctant to open my pandora’s box with my husband about this situation, because of the potential for going down a dark alley with it, going into reactivity, resentment, hurt, and missing the opportunity for a real sharing of vulnerability. I think this pattern is what got us into this situation now, as we have been having a hard time meeting each other in the field beyond right and wrong, or beyond attack/blame and defense. And so he sought out this connection to share empathy, intimacy, vulnerability… where he was missing it with me. I think we have the potential to get back on track, if I can rest in tenderness, the broken-openness. I think the fear comes from my hard-wiring for dysfunction (which I drank up in my childhood), a lot of negativity between my parents, abuse and misattunement, though I did get some good attunement and love from my mom. I have a deep memory of self-compassion and can reconnect with this place (though I haven’t been practicing much in a formal way since having children and partly why I feel this deep longing for reconnecting with practice, retreat time, metta, presence). I do draw on the love I give/receive from my children, it is good to remember to drink in the love that surrounds me and make it a practice to really notice and imprint the nourishment when it’s happening.

I’d like to get your perspective on requesting limits. I don’t mind my husband’s female friendships (of which he has several), when I don’t sense any romantic hue to them. This situation now I feel uneasy with as I feel excluded from an intimacy that I sense is romantic on some level. Conclusions drawn from their confessions in the first emails, the phone bill with many late night texts, long calls, I guess the frequency of their contact which seems beyond a regular friend. All this I discovered when my husband has been away just a few days ago, before that I felt a little uneasy because I intuited something there but I didn’t know the extent of it (still I don’t really understand how my husband is feeling towards her). So I feel a need for some clarity about this, and also transparency, so that if they want to continue this type of sisterhood/brotherhood connection together, that it develops in a way that deeply respects our marriage and isn’t sheltering some hidden longings and special intimacy (that for example would be different in my presence). Also my hope is that it will cool down a bit between them, because when I think over the past few weeks it seems he is turning towards her for the emotional intimacy that we could have with one another if we make the efforts. But there is some grit to go through with that, because of our habits built up over the years and the daily stress of this period in our life. I guess my question is if you sense (being perhaps of a similar nature as my husband) you would feel oppressed if I made an actual request about the kind of intimacy they share with each other (for example keeping my presence in mind when he chooses what and how to share with her), and also if I communicated my wish (though of course it’s his decision how he chooses to act on it) that he refrain from turning to her when he’s needing some intimacy or connection, that we try to open that channel back up together. I would be happy if he even communicated to her a need to step back from their communications for a period, to let ours blossom again, but I wouldn’t ask him that, partly because I wouldn’t want to step that far into his autonomy and choice for his actions (especially respecting his great need for autonomy and freedom) and also because I wouldn’t want to build up some kind of tension and frustration that might even make their connection more intense. So I’m not sure if I should make these kinds of requests, or just focus on building the bridge back towards intimacy with each other, and if by putting the focus on their connection I may sabotage my deep intention and longing for our turning towards one another. I just feel that if they continue in this way (as they had the past few weeks) it would be really challenging for me (probably until I felt re-established in my connection with him), and I’m afraid I’d just close up as I do when I’m not feeling safe or held in my vulnerability. Like somehow the vulnerability is a bit too sharp at the moment.

I’d love to hear your thoughts… I really appreciate your sharings.

May 21, 2014 at 2:58 am #56755

Dez
Participant

I haven’t heard back from the Ruminant, and wondering if anyone else might have a response to what I’ve shared… Matt, are you there? Or perhaps another kind soul with a fresh perspective?

May 21, 2014 at 3:55 am #56759

@Jasmine-3
Participant

Thanks everyone.

Hi Dez

I have not had a chance to read replies from Matt or TheRuminant. Both are extremely experienced so I am sure whatever they have said is probably correct. I hope not to double up the information here.

I will share my perspective here, which comes from a positive and secure soul. I have worked on myself over the years and have come to this stage where I feel quite capable of dealing with whatever life may throw in front of me. I have realised that nothing is impossible or beyond repair.

What we need is love, open mind, patience and open communication in a relationship. Do you have all of these ?

If it was my husband who was doing such a thing, I would openly tell him of my concerns and need for honesty and trust in our marriage. Hey, every marriage goes through difficult times but it is during these times, when we learn the most about ourselves and the other person. When things are hunky dory, we get into a comfortable zone and start taking things for granted. So swallow all your insecurities, apprehensions, fear and assumptions and go and talk to him openly in a quiet place without distractions.

Tell him that you are not trying to change him or impose anything on him but you would like to know if there is something more that you guys can do to rekindle such a connection between the two of you. Listen to his concerns with an open mind ie, listening without any interruptions or pre-conceived ideas. Sometimes, we women get too insecure and our mind goes on a random chase looking for clues to prove our intuitions that yes yes yes yes he is cheating. Hey, when do people cheat if you truly ask yourself ? When our needs are not met in some form or other or when we do not have control over our urges. Which category does hubby belong to ? Either way, there is a solution so there is nothing to fret about.

Everyone wants love and deep connections at the end of the day. We just have different ways of getting to it !! My husband knows that I will never bind him or impose anything on him nor do I have any interest in changing him. I have accepted him the way he is and he has accepted me the way I am. When we have issues, we talk it out. Sometimes, we solve it quickly and at other times, it takes a lot of negotiations and compassion haha. We try not to let our ego get into the indifferences. When 2 people stay under the same roof, they are bound to clash.

Relationships that are based on honesty, trust, respect and openness do much better than those where there is too much insecurities and binding. My husband knows that he is free to walk away any day he feels that he has found a deeper connection with someone else as he knows that I only want his happiness at the end of the day. This is what unconditional love is, isint ?

Have I inspired you enough to go and have a heart to heart with hubby without any preconceived ideas or intuitions ? Relationships need nurturing and freedom. But they also need clarity and boundaries so that such insecurities do not create a rift in the contract.

Sending you heaps of positive energy. Go and give unconditional love to your hubby. Either way, it will work out just fine for your highest good and for his. You both are worth it.

Jasmine

May 24, 2014 at 10:20 pm #57252

The Ruminant
Participant

Hi Dez (@hakom)

Sorry, I have had a rather busy week, and I haven’t had a chance to get into the right mindset to participate in this forum.

I’m not sure if it a good idea that I would speak on behalf of your husband, even if I feel like I might be similar in some sense. I personally appreciate transparency, but unfortunately, it’s not always that simple. For example, would it be a good idea to tell him that you have looked into his e-mails? That would be transparency, but at what cost? I honestly do not know.

Honestly communicating your needs is always a good thing. “I need to feel safe in order to attempt opening up, and I don’t feel safe when I feel that there is a threat to our marriage” for example. OK, that was a lot of “feels”, but the threat isn’t an actual fact, but a feeling. It doesn’t make it any less valid. Intimacy requires trust; trust in yourself and in your partner. I do think that you need to build trust towards yourself, and one good way to do that is to be as authentic as you can. It really does build your self-esteem and that helps in trusting others as well, since you know that you can always fall on your feet. Don’t let your fear to take over and rule your life.

I’m sorry, I’m probably still not in the right kind of mindset to express myself more thoroughly.
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