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Buddhism vs Modern Psychology

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  • May 19, 2014 at 10:35 am #56555
    Mark
    Participant

    Hey, My name is Mark. This is my first post here. I have had a lot of support from this website! Thanks you for this. Now for my struggles.

    It seems i can not get beyond this divergent thought-feeling.

    Simply (very…) put, Buddhism is about that you let everything be as it is and don’t judge. Every feeling is just a feeling and will go away. Every thought, ‘aware’ or not, will go away.
    Psychology is stating that you can change thought patterns, emotion-thought behaviourism/linkage, thus make change and by definition you are judging, something has to change, is not right, self destructive even.

    The ‘let it be vs change it’ is confusing. Having to work on some psyche vs there is no problem, just let it be. I feel like Jeckl and Hide… Which compliments my light form of borderline personality disorder…

    Short history; I lived in The Hague all my life and the last 5 years there together with my girlfriend. I had ‘some jobs’, nothing big and made music which was promising but ‘not really there yet’. I was pretty comfortable with this life, but it was missing some fulfillment. I thought it was not having enough acknowledgement for me as a musician and i had a slight tendency to drink beer to fill the void.
    Well the job of my girlfriend moved to Rotterdam and i had the idea of moving there all together. I could find some work over there and it all worked out pretty good. I found a nice little job and we lived in a nice small house.
    She broke up after 3 months of living there and then the chaos began. This void was beginning to feel a bit bigger, but i know i had to cope with this loss and so i dit. I took the ‘Buddhist’ approach and this helped me through the rough times. After a few weeks i began feeling better and i was positive and saw the opportunity in this change and was grateful for it all. A few months later now and i feel as if i only have questions and no answers.

    Thus i struggle with my identity and the feeling of being lost. After this rought half year in which i went from total acceptance and gratefulness to the total lost of identification.

    More history: My biggest problem seems that i have no feeling of self and therefore not knowing what i want to do with my life. When i was younger I was ‘the person who i thought others thought i was’. For example; I am a really capable drummer, i identified myself as musician, but whenever a better drummer came along, and i studied at a conservatory so a lot of good drummers where near, i felt totally empty and worth nothing.

    There seems to be a deep void where normally someones feeling of self should be. Practising meditation did really help for a while. My life was really simple and low profile and i was okay with that. That is until the deep feeling that i need to do somthing with my life got a hold of me. All the old fears and restlessness came back and most of it all, the fear of not knowing what it is i want. I feel stuck and see al these possibilities, but how do i know what to choose if i don’t have a feeling of self?

    The problem for me is that is seems to that i have to choose between the ‘two approaches’. Are there people here that have any insight on this or are also struggling with this?

    May 19, 2014 at 10:54 am #56556
    Inky
    Participant

    All adults come to this cross roads of the mind at some point.

    Read The Bhagavad Gita.

    There is the Buddhist mind where all is acceptance, and then there is that ego thing. The thing that wants us to DO this, BE that, HAVE the other.

    The Gita talks about Action. Acting in your Nature. If it is in your nature to make music, then do that. If you don’t feel like making music today, and like to meditate, do that.

    There is also the idea of Dharma Yoga. You have something you want to Be, Do or Have. Fine. Release ALL attachments to the outcome, and just ACT. Don’t look at who’s a better musician, what you have to do to make it, or any of that. Just play the music.

    There are articles, books and, of course, the Gita text that explains this way more eloquently.

    See yourself swimming in a sea of Perfection, and have fun in this life!

    May 20, 2014 at 3:40 am #56628
    Matt
    Participant

    Mark,

    You don’t have to be perfect to offer the rhythm of your dharma to the world. Said differently, why bother worrying if others can beat the drum better or brighter or faster? When you perform your art, it flows out of you and touches the hearts and minds of those listening. Just rest in the beauty of that, let it help you find your north.

    Consider that the self isn’t “missing” or your “enemy”… its just empty of anything inherent. Meaning, your thoughts aren’t dragging you down, its the type of thoughts you’re having. Fear, grief, pain, pleasure… these thoughts have weight to them that pull your attention toward the object. Breathing meditation helps loosen their grip on our attention, so we’re not overwhelmed as easy. However, it sounds like you’re experiencing tastelessness. Consider switching for awhile to metta meditation specifically, which will help break you out of “mark-land” and back into the world.

    Said differently, when we grow loving kindness inside us, the self naturally becomes more peaceful and our life stops being a task list, and turns back into a garden path that we play down. Consider “Sharon Salzburg guided metta meditation” on YouTube if interested.

    From a different angle, consider the self much like the rhythm of our song. We don’t stop the beat (such as let go of all thoughts, staunchly weather the storms in our mind), rather, we flow in tune with nature (grow the mind into a garden, following our heart’s beat). Breath meditation helps us realize our song isn’t inherently anything, a blank canvas. However, certain actions produce certain results, such as punching a wall produces pain in our hand, judging produces pain in our mind, etc. When we do metta, our thoughts become more friendly, more peaceful, more smooth, so we can find our rhythm and simply play.

    Finally, you sound like you’re really harsh with yourself. Don’t do that! We all have this weird task of trying to find balance and joy. Falling along the way is inevitable, so don’t let your mistakes compound into harshness toward yourself for making them. It happens to us all, dear brother, and we have to learn to nod, accept our actions as just what they were, then go back to the cushion to rekindle our happiness.

    With warmth,
    Matt

    May 21, 2014 at 11:40 am #56791
    Kelly
    Participant

    Mark,

    I don’t have much in terms of guidance to offer, but I wanted to let you know I too struggle with the seeming contradiction between Buddhism and psychology. I have studied the latter for longer and only recently have become interested in understanding Buddhism. For years, my “guru” was Lou Tice of the Pacific Institute, an organization I was exposed to through my work in a corporate environment. A lot of attention was put to goal setting and visualization techniques. For instance, if you have a fear of public speaking, visualize yourself delivering a flawless speech to the crowd. Over and over, play this movie in your mind of you delivering the speech, so that when the time comes to give the speech, you are simply acting out the scene you have envisioned in your mind. We move toward and become what we think about. Visualize yourself driving that fancy new car you want, getting married to that beautiful woman, or performing a drum solo to an enthusiastic audience. But isn’t that too much future thinking, when you consider the teachings of Buddhism? Shouldn’t you be mindful of the present moment and not give attention or time to that speech you need to deliver tomorrow? I’ve heard it said that spending too much mental energy on the past leads to depression whereas investing too much time focused on the future can cause anxiety. But what of goals and hopes and dreams? How do these future biased thought patterns fit into a Buddhist mind? I think for someone like me who wants to have a high level of (perceived?) “control” in my life, the idea that everything is happening perfectly, in its own time without any intervention from me causes me angst. Surely there’s something I can do to direct my life’s path. But this is ego, and ego is something I could stand to let go of.

    I guess we need to take a deep breath and get out of our heads at times.

    May 29, 2014 at 3:01 am #57616
    Mark
    Participant

    Dear people,

    Thank you so much for taking the effort to bring me some guidance or help me feel somewhat better. I found a dutch version of the the Bhagavat Gita and it’s on it’s way. Also this youtube video with Sharon Salzburg is taking the edge of the questions in my head. Literally getting me out of my head more. What a relief. There seems to be a part of my ego that is real strong and wants me to keep comparing everything. It’s what ‘i’ have been doing all my life.

    I have been busy building a stronger awareness of this unwanted behavior and i seem to get a hold of it more. The same goes for my being judgmental (foremost to myself). There is still a lot of work to be done, because this strong voice telling me to do so, to be judgmental and to compare is sometimes really soft and barely noticeable.

    Matt, do you mean with ‘tastelessness’ to not feel a passion, as in not to want to do anything? That is whats going on sometimes, that i feel i have ‘lost’ my passion for music. I think now that i am just walking the path to reset what passion is meaning to me. This wide open space i’m in now, this “o sh#t where do i have to go, what should i do, which direction should i get of off this roundabout?” is pretty uncomfortable. Thats okay, i don’t need comfortable right now and i don’t say that to be harsh to myself. I feel grateful, because it tends to more often feel this is exactly the place that is best for me to be in.
    Now i try to teach myself this very important part; the uncomfortable is the place to learn to your’e true self, passion and purpose in life. I found out that this purpose in life for me is really simple; be content with my life. That’s it! How to get there is already a fair bit clearer.

    I tend to get tangled up in all the terms like; passion, fulfillment, purpose, goal, doing and trying and i even think that i see to much motivational websites. Slowing down and just breathe makes more sense now.

    Kelly, you seem to be at a somewhat comparable roundabout, maybe also on a broken bike. Psychology states; fix your’e bike first and Buddhism seems to be saying; just sit down and be. Now, that last one is pure enjoyment for my procrastinating ego. This is also the contradicting feeling i have. I guess i have to learn to let go more. To not judge and expect (as much). These seem to be the basics.
    I try to see it this way (for now…): i’m sitting in a beautiful valley surrounded by several mountains a beautiful place if you don’t think about which mountain to climb and how to do it and if it’s the right mountain for you. Life’s voice is really soft and you need to be really peaceful and quiet to hear it. So at first you sit an be content with it and then you give change for life to speak to you and then you can ask it a question.

    I will keep you updated with my life’s journey. Maybe some other person can also learn from it.

    Mark

    May 29, 2014 at 6:31 am #57631
    Matt
    Participant

    Mark,

    Tastelessness I was pointing at is the sense that any exit from the roundabout is dull, empty of nourishment, of enjoyment. The decrease in passion is a result of that view… why act, do anything, when the results are tasteless. Might as well just keep circling in the roundabout.

    My teacher helped me see how its cause is selfish action, such as sitting and stewing too long in our own story. Metta helps break that open, our intentions and dreams aim again at mutual nourishment, helping ourselves, as well as others. Then, any exit from the roundabout becomes another adventure. What’s there? What can I do to help? Them or me, learn or teach, clap or play, what an adventure! The focus moves away from “who am I, and what should I be doing”, and back to a more invigorating curious space. “Out of the head”, and more balanced. Breath meditation doesn’t always help with that (unless we have a lot of practice cultivating mindfulness) for various reasons.

    I’m glad the metta meditation is helping, what a relief, no? Consider that if you’re offered an opportunity to give kindness during your day, jumping in with a smile dramatically increases the momentum of metta. After all, nobility on the cushion is one thing, but acting from the space of that nobility is quite another!

    With warmth,
    Matt

    October 16, 2014 at 8:10 am #66342
    Mark
    Participant

    Hey dear people,

    Let’s start by saying that it is a very good feeling to find out that i now am understanding what it is that you were writing about. It took some time and action. It is a very good feeling that i’m really am progressing towards les ego and more ‘just being’. All this, whatever ‘it’ is, seems to be in a graduate shift. I would like to call it transition, the word sounds good.

    For me it seemed that in order to let go of the ego, i first had to see it for what it is. I had to first define it and in order to do that i had to really get to know it and to know what it does to keep it like this, paradoxically enough.

    Meanwhile i kept being kind to people, even in typically aggressive traffic situations and sorts. I kept practicing loving kindfullness, trying to not ‘internalize’ or attach to anger, judgement or expectations. Instead i kept in mind this one sentence: everybody wants to be happy and is trying, so you try to be the change you want to see in other people. It not worked always, but even if i did get angry i quickly became aware of this and saw that it was this ego thing and not ‘me’. I did not want to be angry, because i know that everybody just want to be happy and is struggling in some way.

    I have two stories to tell you if you’re interested. This kind of shows where i ‘stand in life’ for now.

    The noisy neighbour.

    This was a big lesson in disguise and the frustrated, also struggling neighbour was my teacher. I am deeply thankful for him and the lesson. Life gave me what i needed even if it was total the opposite of what i wanted, namely safety, peace and quiet and no need for action that i had to take.

    This young man does not like to be alone and quiet. He likes it noisy and has friends over almost every night. He turns up the volume of the thumping house music regularly. He seems very unhappy to me and he seems to be getting by with the help of distraction, friends and drinking. This is not me judging, but just observing. He is a friendly guy and i have several times asked of him to turn down the music a notch, so i would be able to sleep if i used good earplugs and there was no problem. Until it happened more often and it became louder.

    I became more irritable and even angry with him. It even came down to a loud argument in the middle of the night. We eventually came to an compromise, which i think of as a reasonable one. For me however it will still be too noisey. I really like the silence so i made the decision to move.

    This is not something the circumstances forced me to do. I chose to not see it that way. I chose to see that we always have choices. I saw the neighbour as a young man struggling with life and needs a lot of party to feel happy. I have been exactly the same. That the coincidence of him and me living in the same building is just something that happend for no reason. But it could be if i wanted to. He’s not going to move, so i chose this to be a lesson.

    I learned that it was my ego who saw this boy who was offending ‘me’ by not doing exactly as ‘i’ wanted, even though the boy now knows that he is bothering, or even offending ‘me’, making noise.

    I had this progressingly clearer image of my ego and then i let it go. Now I am going to temporarily live on my old room at my mothers house and save up for some traveling i have always wanted to do, but ‘the old me’ would never though of really be doing. Wow. Thanks to all this, i am finally going to travel!

    This was clearly life trying to give me the message to take action. I learned a lot…

    The bike which was trying to teach me a lesson.

    Last night, on my bike, on the way home from work i realized that i have not yet changed the drive chain of the bike. The chain is worn out and it easily drops off the sprocket.

    Two years ago i knew this would remain a problem if i wouldn’t change anything. Sometimes i get angry at the bike, sometimes at the roads and most of the time at myself for procrastinating.

    A while ago i started to really became aware of this pattern and thought that it would make no difference if i would be irritated about this fact if i wasn’t going to change the chain anyway. It would be better to change the way i looked at it. It made sense, i had a choice.

    – replace the chain
    – not replace the chain and keep getting irritated
    – not replace the chain and accept that it sometimes falls off
    – not replace the chain, keep being aware of the chain problem during riding the bike and anticipating every bump on the road.

    I experimented with all of them.

    Eventually i chose to not change anything on the bike or the roads. I chose to become aware of the chain, anticipating traffic, the roads and all of the bumps on the way. By being aware of as much as i could, but not focussing on anything in particular and certainly not the chain and the goal of the bike trip, i really started to enjoy cycling. I became increasingly aware and peaceful and the chain rarely fell off and if it did it was a sign that i was distracted or too focussed on something. This bike teached me how to meditate. This bike in his exact state teached me that there is always a choice. Again i learned a lot.

    The last year or so, even though it was (and still is) messy, is a beautiful part of my life and i am so grateful for it. I am so happy for having trust in life and people. I feel so much freedom.

    Thank you! With love and kindness,

    Mark

    October 24, 2014 at 3:49 am #66731
    Will
    Participant

    So good to hear you’re doing well. 🙂

    October 24, 2014 at 10:15 am #66739
    Katie
    Participant

    Mark!
    Thanks for the update. I’m happy you’re in a good place, and really enjoyed reading your two stories. 🙂

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