Dear Hello,

you’re welcome and thank you for your blessings!

I am so glad that he hasn’t managed to fool you or distract you in the meanwhile, and that you’re on track with packing and moving!

Also, I am very glad that your daughters took the announcement very well, and are actually excited about starting a new chapter away from him. I imagine they don’t particularly like him?

I can tell you that yesterday was the happiest I’ve felt in a few years.

No wonder, since you have finally seen through him and decided to free yourself from his abuse (manipulation, guilting me, projection, love bombing… when I’m around him I feel like I’m being poisoned.).

But Im not affected by them

His abuse and manipulation don’t have power over you any longer. You saw through him and his words lost power. You don’t believe him when he says you’re a bad person. His words have zero, or almost zero weight to you, and that’s why you feel free!

I’ve realized fully now that he’s been an abuser all this time and I know I’ll have to heal from that.

Yes, you’ll need some healing, but it might not be such an arduous task for you like it was for his first wife, because you have done a lot of personal growth during your marriage, and you’ve grown a lot. At the beginning of this thread you were already willing to let him go because you said you’ve tried everything but nothing worked (I pretty much don’t have anything left and am ready to move forward with my life in peace.).

So it seems to me you’ve come a long way in the last 3 years. You’ve made yourself strong enough to leave. And when you’ve realized that he has a NPD, everything fell into place and it only confirmed what you already suspected: that he isn’t willing to change. This only strengthened your resolve to leave ASAP.

So I think you might be well prepared – mentally, emotionally and also from a practical point of view – to start a new chapter. But of course, you can’t just press the switch and forget all about him and his abuse. It will take time till you process it all.

Dr. Ramani is a great resource on all things narcissism. She has a youtube channel “DoctorRamani”, with hundreds of videos. So if you need an expert opinion, I highly recommend her videos.

Wishing you further success with moving in the following days!

Dear Dan,

glad you have family around and can spend time with them. Also that you can talk to your mother… is she supportive?

I am very glad that your suicidal thoughts didn’t last, and that you’re feeling a bit better now. Also, that you’re thinking about taking up martial arts again! I guess it’s a good way to build up not only your physical strength, but also mental power, i.e. the feeling of power in your own life. At least that’s what I associate martial arts with… perhaps it’s different for you?

If you have a full-time job, perhaps having a part-time job on the weekends would be too much? I mean it would leave you little time for resting and doing the things you enjoy. But if that part-time job is something you enjoy, then it seems like a good idea.

Yes, I had a pleasant and peaceful Christmas, and an extraordinarily warm one. Very far from white Christmas 🙂 Thank you for asking!

Dear Katrine,

merry Christmas! How are you holding up?

Dear SereneWolf,

good you went to check your TSH level. My advice is to do an ultrasound too, just to make sure there is no autoimmune disease. Although if your TSH is within limits, I guess the chance of autoimmune disease is lower too.

I’d say more in private life but it’s lot better than before

Alright, so you’re better at accepting people’s No, it doesn’t make you so angry any more. If you want to talk about it more, you’re welcome.

Yes definitely. And the thing is that I think after getting an MBA degree I’d be even more confident because right now without bachelor’s or master’s I’m on Manager position. So it does feel inadequate to other people. Because there are some people who finished their Masters and working under me so…

I understand…. yes I guess it’s beneficial to have a university degree if you’re a boss in a tech company. And having an MBA is an additional big plus!

I started taking care of my inner child… with my childhood photo also I talk to my inner child and try to compassionate with him

Excellent! You said that your inner child is trying to get your parents’ approval (Yes exactly and that’s what my inner child is trying as well.). Can you recognize when what happens? And do you have a way to soothe yourself (your inner child), tell him he is good enough etc?

Yes the marketing manager. He’s super persuasive. Definitely like a wall street sells guys. With sweet talkin’ he just makes you say Yes… But what I do now is that I don’t schedule lot of meeting with him. Instead, just make him deal with my assistant and then later I answer him via email. In email writings he can’t win against me

Smart! Reducing face-to-face contact, when he might “sweet talk” you into accepting some unfavorable things for you and your team…  and instead, communicating via email. Cool! And so he’s not too pushy with you in emails?

Hmm I see nowadays social media algorithms are very strict. So you have to be consistent with your content otherwise algorithms just put you way out from the platform.

Yes, that’s a great advice. I know, consistency is one of the key things. If you’re not active all the time, you get forgotten and the algorithm skips you…

And thank you for those two links. I love what it says in one of the articles: “You’ll see that the real project is the best teacher. … In a long run, one mediocre project is worth a few books and online courses. Learn from your own mistakes.”

Yes, I’ve realized that in the meanwhile…

Dear Katrine,

she called my mom and got really angry that we didn’t drive the two hours down to celebrate. But we had already celebrated her birthday so we didn’t see any need for us to do it again.

Well yes, earlier she said she didn’t invite you to the party at her place because she would celebrate separately within the family circle. And then she got angry at you and your parents because you didn’t come to a party to which you weren’t invited in the first place?? Wow, that’s something! That’s some serious manipulation. It cannot be explained away by her being in pain or anything like that. It’s pure manipulation, if you ask me. It’s abusive.

How did your parents react to  it? Have they still tried to excuse her behavior?

I have to deal with a lot of feelings around betrayal when it comes to her. She even tried talking my parents into having my cat put down (I’m a huge animal lover) she has allergy so the couple of times the would come to visit we had to clean the entire house and keep my cat in another room. But she didn’t like that.

That’s quite heartless in fact. Because you did clean the house before she arrived and put the cat in another room. But it wasn’t enough – she wanted your cat to be put down. It shows she has no empathy for you (or the cat). Very selfish and cruel.

All this tells me, Katrine, that your sister has strong narcissistic tendencies. Whatever the cause is (whether her illness or something else), it seems to me that you were subject to narcissistic abuse by your sister, and your parents were her enablers. They excused her narcissistic abuse and accused you if you protested. You were put between the rock and the hard place – nowhere to go, nowhere to get compassion and understanding.

She [your mother] is still in denial about a lot of her behaviour (exactly like I was) making excusses for her behaviour.

Your parents excused her behavior, and they conditioned you to excuse it to this day. They didn’t defend you, and that’s why you believe that nobody cares about you. Because the two most important people in your life didn’t care about you (I mean, they behaved like they didn’t care about you – that was the net effect of their behavior, even if they didn’t mean to hurt you).

And the third most important person in your life – your sister – was abusing you. And you had a mean grandmother too, who told you that having a bird pet constitutes animal abuse! So there was no one in your family to protect you.

No wonder you have such a strong anxiety and believe that no one cares about you. Because it was unfortunately true for your immediate family. You were a collateral victim of your sister’s illness and her narcissism. The problem is that your parents didn’t recognize the narcissism, and attributed her behavior to her illness. And so they became her enablers.

Your father seems to be still enabling your sister, i.e. accusing you and excusing her. Whereas your mother is now at least willing to hear you out:

My mom is listening way more to me now. She is still in denial about a lot of her behaviour (exactly like I was) making excusses for her behaviour. But she has started showing more understanding to my situation

So your mother is still in denial about your sister’s manipulative behavior – she is still excusing it. But at least she shows some empathy towards you, unlike your father. That’s good. You can tell her (when you’re alone with her) that you find your sister’s behavior manipulative. As a glaring example you can mention your sister’s birthday: that first she didn’t invite you and then was angry when you didn’t show up.

So you may try to talk to your mother and help her see how your sister’s behavior is very selfish and manipulative (regardless of what caused it). And you can tell her it has hurt you a lot over the years, and that you don’t want to excuse it any longer. And that’s why you’re keeping your distance. You can then see how she will react to that – whether she will keep defending your sister, or will realize some things.

I’m gonna take your advise about dealing with my sister. I am only going home for a few days and I don’t want to spend them dysregulated and anxious

Yes, try to not take your sister’s comments to heart – be like teflon. Don’t feel bad about yourself, even if she tries to make you feel bad or provokes you. It won’t be easy, since you still have some healing to do, but make the first steps. Try not to be upset by her nastiness and her sense of entitlement – rather, expect it, be prepared for it, and don’t react to it. Stay calm as much as possible.

You can post here and tell us how it is going. I am rooting for you, Katrine. And I too wish you pleasant, as calm as possible holidays, centered in yourself, in the knowing that you are a good and loving person, and that your worth doesn’t depend on what your sister thinks and says about you. If it helps you, you may repeat to yourself “I am free from her influence”, or simply “I am lovable, I am free”.

Dear Katrine,

I think I understand the events now, just this bit I don’t get:

No I wasn’t invited to her birthday everybody from my region was invited down to her place (they moved in together before this) but she excluded me under the pretext that we celebrate both her and my dads birthday together. So my parents didn’t see it as me being excluded but rather a practical thing. My sister never wanted to share her birthday party with him before.

Does it mean that she celebrated her birthday twice: once with her friends and her boyfriend (an event to which she didn’t invite you), and another time with your father, when you were there too?

It seems she didn’t really want you on her birthday, and to be honest, I think it’s better if you don’t have too much contact, since she tends to accuse you and blame you for the things you haven’t done, and you get bad anxiety around her. So it’s best you stay away, although it’s painful, I know. Specially since, as you say, she has a child now and it would be nice to be close to your nephew and spend time with him, and them as a family.

But I wouldn’t want to be around her either, if all I get is guilt-tripping and accusations. That being said, I think it would be important for you to process through some stuff so you don’t get so anxious around her any more, i.e. that her words can’t hurt you so much any more. Because right now, you get very easily triggered around her and your anxiety spikes (you had a panic attack when she accused you of not coming to your nephew’s christening on purpose), or you react with anger and resentment, and then people judge you for your reactions.

So you’d need to learn how to better self-regulate when around her. I think the key thing would be not to believe what she is saying about you. Not to believe her when she says that you are a bad, selfish person. You would need to know that you’re a good, well-meaning person, so that when she starts spilling her accusations, you can just ignore it. That would be Number 1.

Also, I think you should accept that your sister might never change her opinion of you (she might even have some narcissistic tendencies, or her illness made her very self-centered). So when she tries to guilt-trip you into doing what she wants, that you don’t give in. You don’t try to please her so she would think better of you. Perhaps you’re already doing this part – you have stopped trying to please her and you’re paying more attention to your own needs and your own health.

If you know her character and her opinion of you, you can be better prepared and better shield yourself from her toxic remarks. You can take them more calmly, because you know they’re not true. You don’t need to quarrel with her and try to prove that she is wrong. It’s being like teflon (non-stick pan) – her remarks just fall off of you, they don’t stick. You don’t take them to heart, you don’t believe them. They go in one ear and out the other. It’s not easy to achieve, but I think this should be your goal.

The more self-love you have, the less will her words hurt you. Her opinion of you won’t matter to you so much. You’ll be free.

And then perhaps you’ll be able to be around her at certain family events, and it will cause you less anxiety. You’ll be able to behave more naturally with other people, such as your brother-in-law. If he still doesn’t like you, well then it’s his problem. But you will be more relaxed and won’t feel in such danger any more.

Of course, it’s easier said than done, but that’s something to aim for, I think. Maybe before going home for Christmas this year, try to do affirmations (I am lovable, I am worthy), and also try to practice being like teflon. For example, you can imagine that she accuses you of something – how would you react? Can you remain calm, knowing that her words are not true?

Dear Hello,

he did not handle this news well even though I’ve been telling him for over a month what my plans were. He then started trying to sell me on he would help me move my things , that we should do it “together” and that he was under the impression we would share a mover for the big things.

Is he also moving out, on the same day? Because only in that case would it make sense to even talk about sharing the movers truck. But I think it’s only an attempt to mess up with your plans and delay them. It’s best if you do it alone, so he cannot throw a monkey wrench into your plans.

When he suggested he help me move I did not agree but I didn’t fight it either. He was starting to get hostile so I just backed away.
Bottom line is I’m not sure if I need to bring this detail up again with him before the actual day or leave it be.

I think he started getting hostile because he is still trying to control the situation and prevent you from executing your plan. So I agree with anita: the best is to tell him as little as possible. Don’t even mention moving unless he brings it up, and simply wait for Jan 3. That way he has less chance of sabotaging it!

Good luck in the following days, and post anytime if you need help!

Dear Katrine,

I am writing again because I would like you to have a less stressful Christmas, and you said that you’re already dreading meeting your sister and her partner for Christmas:

I’m already dreading seeing them at Christmas.

I’m going home for Christmas but am worried about seeing my sister and brother in law, I have very bad anxiety attacks being around my sister and they will probably be staying with us for a couple of days, which makes it that much harder because I can’t get away.

I understand that it’s not just your sister who is giving you a hard time, but that her partner too is behaving coldly with you. The last time you met, in August, he wouldn’t look at you or hug you (like he does your parents):

the day we came to see my newborn nephew in August he still wouldn’t look at me or hug me like he does my parents, it’s a punch in the gut every time

To better understand the dynamics between you and your brother-in-law, I went back and made a list of all the encounters you had with your sister and him (those that you mentioned in your posts). And I think he might have made a wrong impression of you. That, fueled by your sister probably telling him negative things about you, might have lead him to believe her and also see you in a negative light.

So let me list the encounters (those that happened and those that you missed) with him and your sister.

If I understood it well, the first time you met him was in September 2020, when your sister invited him (and some other people) to your house. That’s when you asked her not to have those people for too long and to go eat cake somewhere else. To which she reacted by rolling on the floor and pulling her hair:

September 2020:

it all started with a minor desagreament with my sister(35) yesterday. She is brain damage and has been for 23 years due to illness. I was 7 at the time and it took us 7 years before she got the treatment she need, nearly died several times. The desagrement was completely inocent nut my sister has a way of making it a personal attack on her, and me calmly telling her over and over again that this has nothing to do with her. She started yelling and screaming in my face, pulling her hair and rolling around on the floor. Then proceaded to verbally turn her anger out on my parents. My mom has untreated trauma and seeing her children struggle like this is too much for her. All of this because I politely told her that the people she invited to my parents house shouldn’t stay too long, and that we should just have the cake somewhere else.

You have mentioned the same event recently, and this is how I figured that it must have been her boyfriend who was among the people she invited to that party in September 2020:

The tantrum she had where she started rolling around on her floor and my mother broke down was due to several things, she mas mad that I was sick and put myself first, our region was put on complete lockdown and her new boyfriend was living a two hour drive away, so she was panicking that he would end up leaving her and then she wouldn’t have children, and the final straw was me trying to put down my foot. Then everything exploded she yelled at me, then my parents I did everything that I had read about dealing with conflict (i hate conflict my anxiety goes straight up) stay calm and use I statements trying to deescalate but it didn’t work. She stormed out of there yelling, and she hasn’t contacted me unless it is neccesary. My dad then took over the mental load of dealing with me sister and driving her to all her appointments which we all share resposiblílity for before. My dad had retired at this point and my mom was on the verge of a stress breakdown with everything about the pandemic and stuff

If I got that right, her new (or soon-to-be) boyfriend was among the people she invited to your house in September 2020, and she was very keen to have him. When you tried to limit his stay, she went ballistic. I am not sure if his visit happened at all, or it was cancelled?

The second time you had an opportunity to meet him was a few months later, sometime towards the end of 2020 or beginning of 2021. Your sister was already living on her own, possibly with her new boyfriend, and you and a few other people were invited to visit them. However, you were severely depressed at that time, because it was during the pandemic and you lost your job and had to return to your home country. So you declined her offer, because of depression. But she took it against you and accused you that you’re doing it on purpose to hurt her:

During the pandemic I sunk into a depression so bad that I was thinking about suicide every single day, I honestly didn’t think I would survive it. My sister ask me to come to her house (with a few other people) to meet her new boyfriend but I couldn’t get out of the house (cuz of the depression) I kindly declined and the next day a girl called me and told me so your just staying away to be passive agressive and hurt your sister. That hurt.

Then in spring 2021, her boyfriend had his 30^th birthday party, to which you and your parents were invited too. Things went well at first, you could talk nicely with his 4 siblings and you had fun. But you felt angry at your sister because she behaved so kind and loving with everyone, and his parents spoke highly of her too. You could hardly recognize her, because she never behaved so kindly with you. So at the end of the visit you didn’t greet her properly but looked down when you said goodbye. She, as well as him and his parents took it against you. She didn’t speak to you directly but she said to your father that you’re not welcome to their place again and that you wouldn’t be invited to her birthday 2 months later:

At my brother in laws 30th birthday party I was soo anxious, he has four siblings and they were all there with their partners and they still had their jobs. I was able to have fun though, talking a lot with his siblings and the conversation actually went as if we had been friends for years, that really surprised me. But then my sisters behaviour of such a loving and caring person and the way his parents was talking about her like, who is this person? Do I really know he? when saying goodbye I couldn’t get myself to look her in the eyes I just looked down and said goodbye and so joined my dad. A week later my dad got a phone call from her, she and his parents had noticed my behaviour and said that it would have consequences, I probably wouldn’t be welcome in their house again and I wasn’t going to be invited to my sisters birthday two months later. I was shocked. It was a very strong reaction in my book,

BTW were you indeed not invited to her birthday last year?

Fast forward to August 2022: You and your parents came to you sister’s place to see her newborn son. Her partner behaved coldly to you, wouldn’t look at you or hug you:

the day we came to see my newborn nephew in August he still wouldn’t look at me or hug me like he does my parents, it’s a punch in the gut every time

And finally, November 2022, you couldn’t make it to your nephew’s christening, and you sister took it against you, again accusing you (like once before) that you did that on purpose to hurt her:

I couldn’t make it home for my nephew’s christening and she is trying to turn it into a personal thing of me doing it to hurt her deliberately (that one send me into a panic attack at work, cried in the bathroom)

What I can glean from all this is that your brother-in-law knows you only superficially, because he’s seen you only a couple of times. You’ve cancelled two of the planned encounters, due to depression or because you had to work. And at one occasion, you acted somewhat rudely towards your sister (when you didn’t greet her properly). That’s all he knows about you.

Your sister almost certainly told him negative things about you, and since you behaved strangely at his birthday party, he probably believes her. And so he probably believes what your sister told him about you: that you’re selfish and trying to hurt her on purpose.

I think that’s why he is reserved and even rude with you – because he knows only the fraction of the truth, and he judges you based on that small fraction. You made a wrong impression on him that one time, and so I guess it’s easy for him to believe your sister.

The question is what to do now. I think it wouldn’t be bad to try to repair your image with him, and to show your real self when you meet him next time. I think it would be better if you could interact with him (and other people) from your true self, not from your triggered, anxious self.

That would be the only way to have a more or less pleasant Christmas holidays. The goal is not to triggered so easily when around your sister, but to stay as calm as possible. This way you’d be able to be more open and friendly around her partner and other people at the party – and show more of your true self, and less of your anxious self.

If you’d like, we can talk more about how to achieve it.

Otherwise, to return to your earlier post, I am very happy that you had success in staying at a party and not fleeing, although you felt anxiety at first:

I overheard her asking Y if the cutre guy was coming but he had an event to do that night and so couldn’t join. I felt my anxiety go up and my mind strated racing, I felt overwhelmed ( It was an insanely hectic day at work) and so started to look for excuses for me not to join them. But I stayed and I am really proud of that. I took some deep breaths and tried reframing/challenging my negative thought and the first hour or so I felt really like I was in the way and that they would have more fun without me. But after that (and the one drink I had made me tipsy) I started relaxing more and talking with people (obviously had he been there as well I would have been more anxious but it’s a start).

I am also glad that you’re going to various social events and taking a moderate approach: staying for a few hours, enjoying it, and then leaving when drinking becomes too heavy. That way you don’t feel excluded, and you don’t feel like a fool either sitting there while the others get wasted. Which is a great compromise and a win-win for you!