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ParticipantDear Sadlyconfused,
I am not completely sure but still, there is something about this situation that doesn’t sit well with me. I mean, it’s okay if he finds a woman attractive, you can’t blame him for that. But it’s less okay that he expressed it to her, even if “everyone in the community talks like that about one another”. Why would members of a gaming community need to talk to each other in a flirty, sexualized way?
He was adamant that he had done nothing wrong, that they’re all friends on there and that it just sounds bad out of context.
Well, is he talking like that with his female colleagues at work? Or with his female friends? Are there sexual undertones in his interaction with women? There are many places (work places included) where it is the case, but when I worked at such a place, I felt very uncomfortable.
I think part of the deeper pain though is that I thought he might be remorseful about the fact I’m upset by it, but instead I feel like he disregarded my feelings and couldn’t understand why it hurt me. I thought it might be an opportunity to get some mutually agreed upon boundaries in place when it comes to online interactions with the opposite sex, but he just flat out said that there was nothing wrong with his behaviour.
I also see it as problematic. Claiming that making flirty/sexual comments to women is completely fine and that you shouldn’t be upset about it – well I don’t agree with it. Because such behavior is disrespectful, first and foremost to you, but also to those women who feel uncomfortable being at the receiving end of such sexual remarks.
In any case, I understand why you are upset about his lack of insight and sensitivity about this topic.
Tee
ParticipantDear Katrine,
I am glad that your first intimate experience was a safe and pleasant one, and that it helped you conquer your fear of intimacy.
Yes we talked a bit today and he is still a bit awkward around me compared to my female colleagues but at least we are over the first contact since the rejection.
No wonder he is still a bit awkward around you – it’s because he still likes you…
It’s still hard cuz i really really like him
I understand that, I understand that rejection hurts… But I wonder if a different approach would be helpful: instead of resenting him for not giving you what you want, or pitying yourself for the lost opportunity, maybe it would help if you viewed him with empathy, knowing that he does like you but is afraid of intimacy. If you look at him with compassion and understanding, knowing that he is similar to you, or similar to how you were before, I think it could help both of you. Your heart will stay open, while he might feel unconditional acceptance, which could have a positive effect on him.
How does that sound to you? Do you think you could view him with compassion (not pity), and be open for a friendly relationship with no romantic expectations from him?
Tee
ParticipantDear Katrine,
I feel soo relieved that i can trust myself and my gut instinct. We just said hi to each other and he smiled so i feel a bit better.
Aaw that’s so sweet! I am glad that you’re feeling at least a little better!
Yes i would have said yes to him. Because earlier this year i had my first intimate experience with a man it was scary and I took a couple of weeks for my mind and body to relax in it. But it only happened because i went through with it even though i was terrifiying and foreign to me.
I am glad you would have said yes to the man you like and who likes you too! You say you had your first intimate experience earlier this year with a man who said he liked you (although you didn’t believe it at the time), and so you kind of made yourself to do it, even though it was scary, terrifying and foreign to you. May I ask – did you like that man? It’s okay if you didn’t, I am just asking because there might be something I’d like to add. But please feel free not to answer the question, if you find it intrusive.
Tee
ParticipantDear Katrine,
Honestly it nearly made me cry knowing I can trust my own perception of things and I’m not crazy.
I am happy for you, and I would encourage you to take in and memorize, to sort of “breathe in” the truth that “I can trust my own perception, I am not crazy”. I know how important it was for me to realize a somewhat similar truth about myself, which was: “I know what is best for me”. Because for years, I was confused, didn’t trust myself and allowed other people to tell me what’s best for me. It was a tormenting feeling. And so realizing that “I know what’s best for me” gave me so much freedom and increased my self-esteem. Similarly for you, I think that internalizing the truth “I can trust my own perception, I am not crazy” could boost your self-esteem. I sure hope it will!
But I nearly did the same i nearly cancelled my housewarming because of anxiety i didn’t really believe that they wanted to be there.
It’s good that you were aware of the anxiety rising within you, but nevertheless, you haven’t cancelled the party. That’s a success!
it’s extremely hard losing something you think was gonna happen expecially after a isolated and lonesome life
I am sorry it didn’t happen this time… but honestly, if he had “made a move”, would you have responded positively? I am asking because you said you too are very afraid of intimacy:
I think we might have the same attachment issues here, we keep getting close to each other and then it stops and starts again. I did the same with a guy pre pandemic i liked him but the moment he wanted me i bolted and went with a guy that wasn’t good. The thought of intimacy was scare i will even start to physically shake when a guy gets close intimate or physically.
How do you think you would have reacted if he made a move on you? Would you have accepted his advances or it would have been too scary?
Tee
ParticipantDear Katrine,
in my previous post, I didn’t express myself well. I said “I think he is sending you mixed signals and playing with your feelings”. Well, he is definitely sending you mixed signals, but he isn’t playing with your feelings on purpose. He does it because he is afraid of relationship. So I agree with anita and am pretty sure that yes, he likes you, but he is afraid to admit it.
I needed to know that i wasn’t crazy for starting to think he liked me.
You are not “crazy” for thinking that he likes you, you’re not imagining things, your perception is correct! How does this knowing that he likes you (and that your perception is correct) make you feel?
Tee
ParticipantDear Katrine Nielsen,
after reading your latest posts, my opinion of him has slightly changed: I think he is sending you mixed signals and playing with your feelings. Perhaps he himself doesn’t know what he wants. Because you did declare your interest in him. You said “I’m sorry for today your not interested it’s hard for me to read people.” And he replied: “No I’m not interested, your amazing person but I don’t see you that way.
His behavior up until till latest development indicated that he is more than interested, but then he sort of blew it, by 1) coming to the yoga/karate class with his brother, 2) being high, so that he couldn’t even pronounce words properly. Both of those behaviors (bringing along a third person on what was supposed to be a date, and being high) are romance killers, so it seems like he wanted to ruin it on purpose.
It could be that he is soooo afraid of relationship, that he’d rather sabotage it than risk getting into one. Because his behavior on the yoga date surely looks like sabotage or self-sabotage. And then he confirmed it by telling you that he wasn’t interested in you. I don’t think this is necessarily true, it’s more likely that he got cold feet.
But still, you can’t force someone into a relationship, so if he really isn’t interested, or has a strong fear of relationship, there is no point in pushing it. Perhaps it’s for the better, since he seems very confused and not in a good place mentally. He even told you that “he gets sick of people and places fast because of his mental health.” So perhaps he’s afraid that he would get sick of you too, and he doesn’t want this to happen? So he is sort of protecting you from himself by not wanting to get involved?
Tee
ParticipantDear Katrine Nielsen,
it’s good to hear from you again!
I think, or rather, I am pretty sure, that he likes you. But he is very shy and it seems he is afraid of rejection, so he doesn’t want to “make a move”, although he had plenty of opportunities for that.
I’m very protective of myself and don’t want to think a guy likes me if he is just being friendly with me.
That’s a good approach in general – better not to imagine things that aren’t there. But in this case, you aren’t imagining, he shows a very strong interest in you.
I ended up leaving without saying goodbye to him cuz i wasn’t feeling well. I shut down for a week and basically avoided looking at him and talking to him
Were you physically unwell? I don’t quite understand why you later avoided looking at him and talking to him? Is it because you left without saying goodbye and felt embarrassed about it?
the week after he shut down and did the same
Probably he thought you don’t like him and felt rejected, so he shut down as well, to protect himself.
Let me ask you – do you like him? If so, maybe you should show it to him, because right now, he might be thinking the same about you: that you are just friendly to him, but nothing more.
Tee
ParticipantDear Dan,
if the answer to my previous question is yes (that you did try to communicate but your wife refused), then the problem is mostly in her and her fear of emotional intimacy and vulnerability, I think. You did say that she fits the profile of dismissive avoidant attachment style (My wife is very independent and does have trouble communicating. She is more dismissive avoidant type).
You say she is independent – what do you mean by that? Usually people with avoidant attachment don’t like to ask others for help and believe they should do everything by themselves (they don’t like to rely on others). But you said that your wife was grateful for your help and acknowledged that you helped her a lot (I did a lot to help with anything and she knew that. She even said that she felt like she was using me as I was always willing to help). So it seems she wasn’t the type who would refuse physical/material help. Could you shed some light on what do you mean by her independence?
Tee
ParticipantOK, so you would ask, but she wouldn’t tell you what’s wrong? When she kept you in the dark, you’ve tried to approach her, but she refused to communicate?
Tee
ParticipantDear Dan,
I think part of the problem was that I cared too much. If I felt tension I would always want to know what was wrong
At those times when your wife was giving you the cold shoulder and when you felt that the distance between you was growing – have you asked her what’s wrong?
Tee
ParticipantDear Dan,
As for me not being there to help in challenging times that is incorrect. I was always there to help her and I did, I did a lot to help with anything and she knew that. She even said that she felt like she was using me as I was always willing to help.
I apologize for assuming that you weren’t there to help. I assumed it because you said you went to your mother’s place when the “house got smaller and smaller” and when your wife needed some space. I thought that at those times your wife was very busy with her children and other tasks, and you felt like she cannot give you the attention you needed, so you got out of her way, not to disturb her. Even if the latter is true – that you felt a little neglected at times – I now realize that this doesn’t mean you didn’t help your wife in the household or otherwise (providing a generous settlement is a great example of that!). I am sorry for making that assumption.
When we got back together for a few weeks but then she said she needed space I asked her why. She told me that she needed to gather herself a bit as I think the feelings my have started becoming a bit too intense for her. I said that’s fine and she said it was hard to tell me that because I am always there to help and that I’m always nice.
She needed space because she needed to gather herself. Those are her words. Your interpretation is that “the feelings may have started becoming a bit too intense for her.” But you don’t know that for sure. I think she is conflicted and that’s why she needs to “gather herself”. She needs to decide what she wants. On one hand, she appreciates your help and generosity and the fact that you are always nice. But on the other, there is something bothering her, and I don’t think it’s just that her children have an issue with you.
I will dare to say that she too has an issue with you, and it could be because you never asked her those deeper things, and maybe she felt like you didn’t care? It’s again an assumption on my part, but if there was no communication between you, and the distance was growing, it’s very likely that there was some resentment on her part. She actually showed it by behaving strangely around Christmas and then giving you the cold shoulder in January…
I guess I should say through when we were being intimate with one another it was good. We had very good chemistry in that regard.
It could be that when you spend some time apart, she feels the spark again. But when you are too close together, and she feels burdened by a lot of things, and on top of that you behave emotionally needy (a little bit like a child of hers), that spark is gone.
You say:
I also feel closest with her through physical touch. At some point that wasn’t being reciprocated. I’m not just talking about sex but just any kind of physical affection.
I can imagine that if the emotional distance between you grew ever larger, then no wonder she didn’t feel like being physically close either. I’d say emotional intimacy is a precondition for physical intimacy.
Tee
ParticipantDear Dan,
My wife told me that she wanted a separation because she was emotionally tapped out. She couldn’t do it all. Be a wife, mother and caretaker.
I went back and read your first post more carefully, and realized that her mother stayed with you only for a few weeks in January. She moved out at the end of January (Her mom had moved out at the end of January), and that’s when your wife asked for a separation.
I can imagine she was felt very burdened during her mother’s stay, however, her mother moved out – so the stress should have been lesser. Instead of feeling relieved that things can now go back to normal, it is then that she chose to end things with you. It’s as if her mother’s stay was just the last drop in her feeling bad about the relationship for some time. It seems she was feeling “emotionally tapped” even when her mother was not there.
The major cause of stress, as it seems, was her son’s resentment towards you. But she didn’t tell you anything about it back in October 2021, when you started noticing it (and asked her about it). She said her son was going through some stuff, but didn’t say what those problems were. You didn’t ask because you didn’t want to pry. So you didn’t know, and she didn’t tell you, that her son’s issues were related to you, not to something else.
During that fall of 2021, the tensions grew (Our house got smaller and smaller with her and I both working from home), and you sometimes went to your mother’s place, because you “knew your wife needed some space”.
Around Christmas – when her mother was still not living with you – you felt that something was off, but again, you didn’t ask anything, and she didn’t say anything (Then Christmas hit and something didn’t feel right but I was kept in the dark.) She “kept you in the dark”.
At the end of January – towards the end of her mother’s stay – your wife started behaving visibly cold with you and it lasted for almost a week (the end of January my wife for almost a week was giving me the cold shoulder). Again, you didn’t ask anything, she didn’t say anything. Eventually, at the end of that week, when no one was at home, she told you she wanted a separation.
The fact that she never set down to discuss things with you, and that she was withholding the information that her son was resenting you – tells me that she didn’t really want to try to mend things. It seems to me that she made the decision to leave you, and was just waiting for the appropriate moment (when her mother left) to inform you about it. Probably that’s why she didn’t want to try counseling either. Her decision was made.
It seems to me that you didn’t try to understand what was going on in her head, even when she was giving you the cold shoulder. That’s why you don’t know what she really felt, what bothered her, why she left you, and why she doesn’t really want to communicate with you now:
When her mom started living with us I was unhappy but I put up with it and didn’t really voice my feelings and she probably sensed that as well. I don’t know.
She’s very independent and I think she just wanted to be a single mom again and not have the responsibility of being a wife as well. I don’t know.
It’s just hard now that she has kind of cut communication and doesn’t want to go see the concert we bought tickets for. Maybe it’s because she doesn’t want to open up, maybe it’s because she finds it too hard to see me. I don’t know.
You don’t know because you never asked her. And she never told you. But maybe she would have told you if you asked her? It seems there was this wall of silence between you, and that both of you were reluctant to voice your concerns. Neither of you wanted to be honest with the other.
It seems to me that she saw herself primarily in the mother and care-taker role, and had lots of guilt about not meeting everyone’s needs. The problem is that you confirmed that role by not really communicating with her, not asking how she was feeling, what was bothering her etc. Instead, you would leave to your mother’s place when your wife felt overwhelmed (and couldn’t meet your needs).
Probably it only confirmed to her that she cannot count on your help in challenging times, but rather, that you too (like everybody else around her) have demands on her. She probably saw you more like another child of hers, not like a partner.
When you gave her a very favorable settlement for the house, she suddenly saw you as a man – as someone who can protect her and GIVE to her, not just ask from her. And that made her fall in love with you all over again! But it didn’t last for long, because the old patterns – both in you and in her – are still active.
Anyway, this is my view of the situation. What do you think? Would you agree that the dynamic between the two of you was more like that of a mother and a child, and not two grown ups?
Tee
ParticipantDear Dan,
I haven’t noticed it before, but now that anita brought it up, I also feel that you don’t really know what was your wife feeling and thinking when she asked for separation. You don’t understand why it happened and are only guessing, because it seems you didn’t really have an honest and open communication with her.
You say that you had a good relationship with her son, until something happened, but you don’t know what. You asked your wife and she told you her son was going “through some stuff” but didn’t tell you what that stuff was. You didn’t ask further because you didn’t want to”pry”.
Actually, it wouldn’t have been prying because it was directly related to you, and he is your stepson. Prying would have been if you wanted to know intimate details about a neighbor, but not if you are worried about your stepson pulling away from you for no apparent reason. I think you deserved an honest conversation with your wife, but it never happened.
Also, you say that you don’t know why you slept on the couch and not in your stepson’s room. BTW I thought that you started sleeping on the couch only when your wife’s mother moved in. I thought that in Sept 2021, when you wife complained about your snoring, you moved to your stepson’s room and that you basically swapped places with him. But it seems this isn’t what happened?
I think it would be important to answer this question (if not here on the forum, at least to yourself): Why indeed did you sleep on the couch and not on the bed, in your stepson’s room, which was free at that time? Was it because his room was “off limits” and you wouldn’t be welcome there? Or it was you who didn’t want to intrude? Or no one offered you to sleep there? Please try to answer this question as honestly as you can, because it may reveal a few things about the dynamic between you and your wife, and about your place in this blended family.
Tee
ParticipantDear Dan,
You are very welcome.
So after the renovation, you did have 3 bedrooms, if I understood well? In one bedroom slept you and your wife, in another her daughter, and in the third one her son, right? (during the renovation, her son slept in the same room with the two of you, but in his own bed).
So after the third bedroom had been renovated, there was a time when her son slept separately, in his own room? Was he happy with you while you were all sleeping in the same room, but then started pulling away when he needed to move to his own room? It could be that this triggered his feeling of abandonment, and he started to complain to his mother? And it culminated by your wife proclaiming that she can’t sleep due to your snoring, and basically sent you away to another room? And this enabled her son to return to sleep with her…
Of course, it’s also possible that she really couldn’t stand your snoring any more, but was too polite to mention it earlier, not to hurt your feelings. And then in September 2021, after almost two years of being married to you and living with you, she finally had enough and told you. But it also could be that she wouldn’t have done it if her son didn’t complain about the new sleeping arrangement… Can you shed some light on that? Do you think that her son started pulling away from you when he was sent to sleep in his own room?
You said:
Also, as stated I was a bit needy and wasn’t really getting any of my needs met.
When did you start feeling first that she wasn’t meeting your needs? And what where those needs exactly, i.e. in what way did her behavior towards you change?
Tee
ParticipantDear Dan,
You are very welcome. You say you didn’t show any frustration, however she probably sensed it. You say:
When her mom started living with us I was unhappy but I put up with it and didn’t really voice my feelings and she probably sensed that as well.
I am sure she sensed that you were displeased with the situation, because people who are in the care-taker role are very attuned to other people’s needs… so she felt it and probably felt guilty that she wasn’t giving you enough…
Actually she said one time that she thought I was jealous of her son. This is farthest from the truth but I guess she was being pulled in all different directions.
Perhaps you resented that e.g. her son gets to sleep in her bed, while you ended up on the couch? And she interpreted your resentment as jealousy? If I may ask – what were the sleeping arrangements before covid, when her children were staying one week at a time at your place? Did her son sleep in her bed then too, while you slept separately? Or it only started happening during covid?
Sleeping with her 10-year old son on a regular basis, and separately from you – her husband – does tell a lot about her. I think it tells about her guilt and, as you discussed with Helcat, about her inability to set boundaries with her children. She felt guilty for setting those boundaries, and she also probably felt guilty for not giving you what you expected from her. And so she found the solution in separation, which is very unfortunate for both of you. But you cannot do much about it, apart from working on your side of the problem.
And I’ve learned a lot about myself since the separation. I’ve learned that I have attachment trauma stemming from things in the past. I’ve learned that I’m an anxious pre occupied style of attachment. I’ve learned those things and understand now what could have been different.
It’s good that you are aware of your anxious attachment style. People with anxious attachment style (this was my attachment style too!) are attracted to motherly types i.e. care-takers, so it’s probably a part of the reason why you were so attracted to your wife. She was probably a dream-come-true for you, or rather, for the needy child in you. Because the child wants to feel safe and protected, it wants to feel cared for and nurtured, it wants to feel No1 to his care-taker…
I remember my needy child wanted to feel No1 for my then-boyfriend (now husband), and I was hurt if he had to attend to other people and if I wasn’t his center of attention at all times. I am not saying you are the same, but this is typical for anxious attachment.
If you want to grow out of this neediness, you would need to work on becoming the care-taker for your own inner child. Strengthening the adult part in you, who can become the care-taker for your wounded inner child. It’s called self-parenting or re-parenting. Best if you could do it in therapy, if that is available to you.
I would be glad to talk to you more about anxious attachment and how to heal it, or anything else you might be interested in.
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