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TeeParticipantDear SereneWolf,
BunÄ Tee
Is that Romanian? Had to look it up but am still not sure…
You always give great examples. Thanks!
You’re welcome!
It was actually just recently few months ago. I started the swimming classis and after that I told them. So my parents wouldnāt argue with me.
Oh I see, it was recent. What would they argue with you? That you shouldn’t take swimming classes because it’s dangerous?
Heck theyāre even worried that Iām letting a stray cat inside my place. They be like she might have diseases and blah blah blah.. Iām like Iāll go to the vet and give her vaccination. So, you donāt have to worry about that. Literally no one in my family grown up with a pet. So I did see that coming.
Yeah, it does seem they are a little overprotective. I wonder how they’ve survived you leaving home at the age of 16 and living alone, if they are so worried about you even to this day? How did they even allow it?
But itās right I did act like an overprotective, critical father! Not all the time but stillā¦
Yeah, and there might be a similarity with how your parents acted with you (and are still acting with you). Overprotective, trying to control you (although not succeeding), and doing it “for your own good”…
Or is it just like my parent thinks they still have to care about me like even though Iām not a kid anymoreā¦
Yes, it does seem like that… that you tend to behave in romantic relationships a little bit like your parents behave with you…
Striving towards Perfection (specially with Humans) isnāt a wise thing to do I guess⦠and I tried to make them āperfectā the way I wanted even though at that time I just saw it as a care and concerned about their health.
Yeah, it’s pretty destructive for the relationship if you see the person as “lacking” and try to make them “perfect”. The person feels not good enough, whereas you put yourself in a superior position, and basically judge and criticize them for “underperforming”. Of course, you can say it’s all with a good intention, “for their own good”, but it’s not a healthy, equal relationship.
In a healthy relationship, we accept the person as they are – we don’t try to change them and mold them into something that we would like them to be. It doesn’t mean we need to tolerate and accept some of their bad habits, however fundamentally we don’t try to change the person to be something they are not. It’s like we look at them with love and acceptance, not with a measuring stick that says “not good enough”.
But itās right I did act like an overprotective, critical father! Not all the time but stillā¦Ā And after that I get exhausted and give up on the relationship.
Yeah, no wonder, because it’s like you’re in a war with the person, trying to make her do what you think is right for her, and she wouldn’t… And maybe you think she doesn’t love you if she resists, if she has different priorities and preferences than you? And so you conclude it’s not worth the trouble because things can’t be the way you want them to be?
External environment could be the big reason as well not just my friends but like everywhere I see it just that all be like itās lot of mind games and complex ā not like clear communication as it should be. So yeah itās like a confirmation bias
Yes, it seems some of your friends tell you you need to “play the game”, which makes it look like some kind of competition, like who is going to outsmart whom… Whereas a healthy relationship is not a competition, but a loving and supportive co-existence (or something like that, I can’t think of a better definition now š ).
The way I perceive my past relationships. Like Did I even had a healthy relationship before that Iām longing for it again?
So because of these reasons, I just feel more hopeless and I just feel not excited for dating. Not more than Maybe just some time spending and physical pleasure.
I imagine you haven’t had a healthy relationship so far, because of those emotional wounds and programming that stem from your childhood. So no wonder you fear more of the same… But what you’ve experienced so far isn’t what a true relationship looks like. Trust that you too can have a healthy relationship, but you’d need to heal some of your patterns before that’s possible.
And yeah what about you? Did you celebrate valentine week?
Well, not particularly, I did get flowers from my husband. But we’ve never really paid attention to that date, so I don’t consider it important. But we do have a very good and strong relationship, and that’s what matters most š
TeeParticipantDear Glofish75,
is he talking about his marriage problems, complaining about his wife, stuff like that? Those would be signs that he might be emotionally cheating on her…
TeeParticipantDear norit,
I am very sorry about your father passing and you finding yourself in a very difficult situation.
It doesnāt always feel safe to leave her at home as she will fall over, or injure herself and not realise, or leave the oven on, among other things.
If your mother is dangerous to herself, is there a possibility to place her in an elderly home? Because it is a lot to ask from yourself and your brother to sacrifice your lives for your mother – when she doesn’t want to do anything to help herself, and is in fact denying that she has a problem.
I know it’s hard to do that with a loved one, because we naturally care and feel guilty for not helping them. But in this case, you’re not really helping her ā because what she would really need is help with becoming sober. But she doesn’t want that, she wants to keep destroying her life.
What you’ve been doing so far is trying to soften the blows and minimize the consequences that she is inflicting upon herself. But unfortunately, you’re ruining yourself in the process too, and the result is a lose-lose situation for everyone involved, specially for you and your brother.
That’s why I don’t think it’s sustainable to keep caring about her, in a way that she dictates the rules and you’re just trying to do damage control. It’s exhausting.
Please do to seek help, perhaps first in a support group for families of addicts, like Brandy suggested. They may give you useful information about how to cope better and find a more sustainable solution for you and your brother.
Wishing you strength!
TeeParticipantDear Katrine,
So my manager (the one who harrased the girl who reported him, and acted in apropiatly)
You mean the manager who harassed the girl for reporting the head chef was fired? Good that she had a proof about it!
I am so glad you’ve enjoyed your time with your parents, just the three of you! It was so nice of them to come promptly and support you during this hectic period. I can feel from your words that you appreciated it so much and had such a good time!
TeeParticipantDear frozenfireflies,
when we have conflict itās typically a situation where my husband complains or has a criticism directed at me ā which is not unreasonable in itself ā but itās the way he expresses himself that makes me feel hurt and unsafe emotionally. Itās also very often something ABOUT me or how I express myself, like that Iām too stressed or heightened and triggering him, even though my stress has nothing to do with him ā sometimes I just have intense emotions about something we discuss.
About half of all our days my husband gets unhappy or irritated about something with me.
It seems to me that your husband is very critical of you, and often blames you for no good reason, i.e. that he has a tendency to relieve his stress on you. It seems you’re his scapegoat and he feels entitled to get upset with you and scorn you whenever he pleases. His criticism doesn’t seem like constructive criticism, but just his bitterness about life that he dumps on you.
I think you shouldn’t allow such treatment any more. But it could be that you do allow it because you feel you do partially deserve it (my husband complains or has a criticism directed at me ā which is not unreasonable in itself)?
Even if his criticism is sometimes “reasonable”, there is a loving and respectful way to express what bothers him, which isn’t based upon sarcasm and hostility.
I think that probably you need to be more assertive and tell him that you won’t allow to be treated like that because it hurts you. And that when he starts treating you like that (yelling at you, dumping his anger and frustration at you, putting you down), that you will leave the room, or something like that. You shouldn’t be taking his verbal abuse and hostility any more. I think you should protect yourself from it.
TeeParticipantDear SereneWolf,
I wish I could tell you I am feeling better, but I am not unfortunately… I’ll let you know if there’s some progress finally…
Yes I know but his mother is good natured and nice with me. So Iāll try to present this matter clear and calmly as possible. Because another thing I noticed is that I think sheās the main decision maker, her husband is naĆÆve and heās mostly saying yes to her. Itās actually funny to see them talking sometimes
Okay… if you share about your own childhood and your own experience, that might have some weight and she might consider it. Also, you can say that nowadays children spend too much time on the internet, and it’s not good for their health, so actually nowadays parents should encourage their children to go play outside and not try to keep them indoors.
This occurred to me because I’ve recently seen a cartoon about old and new trends. One of the illustrations shows the Old trend: mother pulling her son back to the house because he’s been playing too much outside, and New trend: mother pulling her son out of the house, while he is glued to his smart phone š
No. Not really. Because I even told her about my hypothyroidism, and she took it well. And in past there was times when even if I have a headache, sheād get really worried.
But as far as I can remember I didnāt tried to regulate her moods.
Well, if in the past she got worried about you for even as little as headache – that’s a lot of worrying. Remember, what matters is what happened in your childhood – that’s the imprint you’re living with – even if now she’s not worrying that much. What did you do when she’d get worried about your headache, do you remember?
I mean which mother doesnāt worry about her kids? So itās obvious that she is worried sometimes and yeah in the past I tried to hide things from my mother because I was scared that sheād be worried because I was still just a high school boy going in wildsā¦
Sure, that amount of worry is understandable, and since you were doing some really wild stuff, it’s sort of obvious why you didn’t want to tell her… But you also mentioned that she was worried when you wanted to learn how to swim, in a swimming pool with an instructor (if I remember well?). That’s a bit of an excessive worry, in my opinion. How old were you then?
So I was thinking about emotional enmeshment, which I suggested as a possibility last time, but based on everything we’ve talked about so far, and how you behave in relationships, I don’t think this is the case with you after all.
Because like in relationship I care too much and even if theyāre little careless about their health or things that affect them or make them worry it makes me worry 3x times more and I canāt focus on my things.
You’ve talked about this before ā that you get “overprotective” i.e. controlling when you try telling your girlfriend that she should eat healthier, or have better sleeping habits. From what I’ve understood, you don’t just tell her “you should get more sleep, staying late is bad for your healthā, and then sort of let it go, but you turn into this drill sergeant who is pushing her to eat healthier, sleep healthier, etc. That’s the same drill sergeant who sometimes turns on you (in the form of the inner critic), and sometimes on the people close to you (in the form of the outer critic).
So it seems to me that the “care” you show towards your partner has this overlay of criticism. And so you turn into this overprotective, critical father, who is watching his “daughter’s” every step, trying to “improve” her. You get so focused on her and her problems, that it consumes you completely and you can’t focus on your own life.
I think this type of dynamic is not emotional enmeshment, but more like that you’re focusing too much on her and her “wellbeing” (but in a bad sense, like an overbearing parent), and then you’re frustrated when she doesn’t want to take your advice. This then is frustrating to you and you rather give up, i.e. leave the relationship.
What do you think? Does this sound plausible?
Oh and kind of a funny thing happened on valentineās day. One of my friendās doctor proposed me… It was really bold move for her.
Yes, it was! But you know you don’t need to accept her marriage proposal, right? š
But to be honest Iām not putting up any high expectations. Go on a date, get to know her a little bit and then maybe somethingā¦
Exactly! No rush… If she wants to rush things, please know that you have the right to say No. Even if she doesn’t like that…
TeeParticipantDear Katrine,
Only now that someone spoke up, she is also being harassed by my manager.
Oh wow – the person who reported the head chef is now being harassed by your manager? Do you mean the top manager, who is friends with the head chef? Or your immediate manager (who was punched in the face recently)?
I can still get mad at him for the way heās acting.
Yeah I can imagine, because it is annoying… However, I am thinking that it might be easier for you if you actually accept that he is like that ā awkward and unable/unwilling to talk to you (actually I am not sure how to characterize him, so this is best I’ve got). But anyway, I think it might help to accept that he is like that and to stop expecting a different behavior from him.
I don’t necessarily want to compare him to your sister, but with her, the best “cure” is to stop expecting a different (kinder, less selfish) behavior from her. If you know what you’re dealing with, it’s easier to prepare and get through it. So I am thinking that perhaps if you stop expecting him to be different, it might actually help?
We are gonna plan to go out and do something when our schedule allow it and Iām really looking forward to it.
I am so glad!
I will continue to look for a therapist and I will finish reading the book Pete Walkers book about Complex PTSD.
Great! Pete Walker’s book is on my list too…
TeeParticipantDear Helcat,
I’d like to reply to your previous post too.
I think youāve got the jist of what occurred.
Good, I am glad that the dynamics is a bit clearer now.
I donāt think anyone likes conflict. Itās actually really hard for me to talk to people about issues. I canāt even look at people during disagreements because I find it challenging and often cry. I was taught by my family to passively accept abuse and itās not healthy for me to do so. For me, even though it is difficult, dealing with issues is the healthy thing to do.
I see⦠you don’t like conflict either, however it is important for you to speak out when treated badly, and to talk about things that bother you. To not passively accept abuse. That’s a very healthy approach actually! Yes, sometimes conflict is necessary ā as in, expressing what’s bothering us, rather than staying silent for the sake of false peace.
As I’ve already mentioned, I did stay silent a couple of times on the forum, for the sake of “peace”. You didn’t want that, and you spoke outā¦
The problem, as I see it, is that you wanted something from anita ā you wanted her to at least talk to you. You asked her several times to share her feelings and talk about what’s bothering her, but she didn’t want to talk to you. She told you already in September that she doesn’t want to communicate with you.
Although, she did make veiled critical remarks about you when communicating with other members (e.g. she mentioned that anybody can misuse the Report button). Even though she didn’t want to communicate with you directly, she kept making remarks about you. She was expressing that she was bothered.
And I guess this was hurtful for you⦠So I am thinking that maybe you wanted her to change her opinion about you, to think well of you? As I said, I think you needed “something” from her, and this something was maybe for her to stay in touch and to think well of you?
This is just an idea⦠let me know if it resonates?
I hope you don’t mind me “digging” further into this⦠if you do find it disturbing or not helpful, please let me know.
TeeParticipantDear Helcat,
thank you for clarifying, I understand it now… I am sorry you had to go through that. You did go through a lot of trauma growing up. I am glad that eventually, social services did get involved.
I also understand why it was triggering for you that anita was so shocked when she heard about your trauma, when it wasn’t even the entire abuse that you went through. It is upsetting… But I hope that you’re feeling less upset about it now?
TeeParticipantDear Helcat,
I am truly sorry that you had to go through that level of abuse š
Could you please just clarify so I can understand better: you said on your thread “Drowning” that your mother used to drown you while you were a small child (“As opposed to pleading for it to stop and being afraid of dying as a small child.”) Does that mean that the abuse started when you were little and continued all the way till you were in your teens, only then it involved sexual abuse too?
TeeParticipantOla SereneWolf,
no problemo š
Yup. His family is trying to change his habits. Already making him āreadyā for āeliteā school. Typical.
How old is he?
It did make me angry when I found out and even though I shouldnāt be in between but at right time I will talk to his mother. Because itās like Iām seeing my past in this! and I donāt want him to go through what Iāve been through.
I understand you, seeing yourself in him… be polite though and very diplomatic when speaking to his mother. Parents don’t like to be given advice, unless they ask for it…
Yes exactly! Because I think it feels like lot of sacrifice. it does include my partnerās frustration. But not always, There are times when I can be extremely stubborn about things and not give up until they agree. But another thing I felt that when people around me are sad I feel extreme need to help them in whatever way I can. Itās like people who are near me should be happy around me even though itās not in my control yet Iām still trying to control that. And until Iām able to help them properly I feel anxious and restless. Itās like I feel very responsible even though Iām not.
Yes, that’s typical for codependent relationships. Say if the parent is a worrying type, we try to make them not worry. If they are depressed, we try to cheer them up… because when the parent is unhappy, the child is naturally unhappy too. So we do everything in our power to make them happy. It’s almost like a survival need, because having a happy, care-free parent is in the child’s best interest. So we’re trying to regulate the parent’s moods, so they could better take care of us.
Do you think this was the case with you and your mother? That you felt you needed to make her happy, i.e. regulate her moods? And you felt guilty if she was not happy?
I do remember you mentioned you don’t like to make your mother worry, so you often don’t tell her if something’s bothering you. You pretend that everything is fine, and put on that big smile of yours. This could be exactly because of this emotional enmeshment: you can only be happy if she’s happy. And if she’s worrying about you, you can’t be happy?
You said that your two previous girlfriends didn’t really put any constraints on your freedom (I had two different partners who were very accepting yet still I was worried about all these things.). But your guilt of displeasing them is very likely the same guilt you felt about displeasing your mother… it’s the guilt felt by your inner child.
But youāre right I need to work on this constant feeling of guiltā¦
Yes, and I believe it has to include separating yourself emotionally from your mother (i.e. your partner). And allowing her to be frustrated (for whatever reason – be it because of you or unrelated to you), and yet feel good about yourself. Don’t make your mood and the feeling of happiness depend so much on hers.
Because it seems that your tendency is to get emotionally enmeshed when you’re in a relationship. That’s frustrating and exhausting (and you feel guilty all the time), so you think the only way to prevent it is not to be in a relationship at all. But it’s a false cure…
TeeParticipantDear Katrine,
I asked not to work nights because itās bad for me and my Cptsd and fortunatly i donāt have to do them any more.
I am glad that you’re spared from working in a potentially dangerous environment! It’s good that the management has understanding for your concerns.
Yeah heās known for it. Prepandemic though he was friends with the top manager and so never had any consecvenses I really hope that this is taken seriously this time. They work so hard in that kitchen but they also need a good work environment. He canāt treat people this way.
What’s his position btw? Some kind of manager? That’s totally unacceptable that he’s been harassing people without any consequences or disciplinary action. I guess everybody was afraid of the big boss and afraid to file a complaint? But now, someone finally filed a complaint against him?
Got back after midnight after picking up my parents and he was sitting next to her do it looks like they made up again. She was sad all of last week and people were hugging her because he was foling around behind her back.
Oh so they’re back together? And he’s been fooling around behind her back… well, Katrine, I am glad after all that he’s not your boyfriend. He is still playing games, like sitting next to you but not saying anything, or looking at you but not saying anything…. and at the same time he has a girlfriend but is also flirting with other girls… I don’t like it at all.
He knew for some months that i was hurt by this, he didnāt think it is okay for him to ignore and act weird around me. He is the best he is like the guy i was with, you just know your in good hands, and I have been starting to see him as more than friends.
From what you shared about the chef, I like him. He really seems like a decent guy, also someone who is emotionally stable because he can tolerate you having a crush on someone else and accepting it and waiting patiently. It’s good news that you started to see him as more than a friend! He sounds promising! š
I really want to start therapy and asking around is a great idea, I really want to feel better.
I wish you to find someone suitable and affordable too!
TeeParticipantDear Helcat,
you’re welcome!
This quote from Anita on the School Bullying thread is her reference to our argument. This was the reason I spoke to her on that thread.
Oh I see…. I haven’t noticed it before, because I haven’t checked that particular post, but only the later one (from May 16). But yeah, that’s a clear reference to you, though she didn’t mention any names.
So it seems you were triggered by anita’s referring to you (indirectly) and describing you in a negative light, while not wanting to communicate with you directly and discuss the issues. You mentioned several times that anita was ignoring you, and I guess this too felt like she was ignoring you?
When reading through your correspondence from May last year, I’ve noticed something important that you shared about yourself:
It should be noted that being ignored is a trigger for me. My family do it when they are displeased with me. I donāt mind people expressing to me when they are feeling angry or upset and do my best to resolve disagreements when they occur.
Could it be that when anita stopped communicating with you (which was her way of reducing stress), it opened a wound in you ā the wound of being ignored? Perhaps that’s why you had the need to approach her again and again, even if she expressed that she doesn’t want to communicate with you?
You said you much rather stay in touch and talk things through, even if you’re upset with the person: Do we get more upset than people who donāt have PTSD, sure. I donāt really see it as a problem though. It is a part of life. Usually, people communicate when theyāre upset, thereās an apology and things move on.
For anita, she preferred peace and very much disliked conflict. She mentioned it many times in her posts. So I guess, being in conflict caused her too much anxiety and she needed to withdraw, i.e. stop communicating with you. It was her way of reducing anxiety. But for you, it triggered a wound, because she cut you off.
So perhaps this created an unhealthy dynamic: you seeking contact and closure/clarification, while she seeing those attempts as you persecuting and stalking her? You trying to talk about problems and clear the air, and she wanting to run away and be left alone.
What do you think? Do you think there might be something to it?
TeeParticipantOla SereneWolf š
Haha yeah French is not that much similar or say least similar in romance languages, also tongue twisting a lot. But Spanish, Italian and Portuguese are very similar to each other.
Oh I see, I thought you said French, Spanish and Italian, but you actually said Spanish, Italian and Portuguese are similar… okay, noted š
Well even in the big cities I prefer outside areas not center areas just for near to wild and some more peaceful and farther from city noise.
Sure, it’s always better to be in or close to a green area…
And yes I do spend time with him but less since heās spending more time indoors.
How come? Is he ill or the family just changed their habits?
Hmm they never had to tell me to ābehaveā because I was very observant. And grandfather used to talk about other kids of my age how much they have āaccomplishedā and well behaved they are. So without much thought I was like okay as a kid this age I have to be well behaved and not do many silly things like other kids doing who arenāt much āaccomplishedā
Right, so it seems you got the message that spontaneity, silliness, or rather playfulness (which are the qualities of the inner child) are not good qualities if you want to achieve something in life? And so you did your best to behave yourself, to hide that playful side of yours in front of other people.
Perhaps that’s why you’re struggling to show that side of yours to your partner, fearing that you would be judged? Because your parents and grandparents judged it too?
Hmm I think my freedom and ability to do whatever I want. … Also ability to go wherever I go. Itās like a parent would be like donāt go to hike there itās dangerous out there and then even after she said no and Iād go I feel guilty.
This is what I am reading from your words: that what you cherish the most is your freedom and ability to do whatever you want, without feeling guilty.
It seems you’re very sensitive to your partner’s moods and are worried if she is worried, to the point of not being able to sleep:
Because like in relationship I care too much and even if theyāre little careless about their health or things that affect them or make them worry it makes me worry 3x times more and I canāt focus on my things.
After that I noticed that in relationships I just loose myself in the process because over caring and overthinking about partner. And it affects my mood and even the sleep soā¦
If I even notice even a little that what I suggested made them uncomfortable I wouldnāt hesitate to change my plans just to see them not disappointed.
What you’ve described is similar to being co-dependent: your mood depends on your partner’s mood, and if she is unhappy, you have the need to make her happy. And you can’t be happy if she’s not happy. You can’t separate your own mood and happiness from that of your partner.
Also, you don’t want to cause any frustration to your partner, so you’d rather cancel your plans than to see them disappointed. You’d rather adjust to your partner than see them displeased with you. However, you don’t want to adjust and stop doing what you love doing, since you’re a freedom-loving guy. So you’d rather not have any relationship at all than have to sacrifice the things you love for another person.
The truth is that you don’t really have to sacrifice the things you love – it is only your belief that you do. The problem you have (if I am seeing this correctly) is that you can’t stand your partner’s frustration. It’s too painful for you and you feel guilty. So rather than try to assert yourself or negotiate, you run away from the relationship entirely. It’s easier for you to live without a constant feeling of guilt.
Am I seeing this right?
TeeParticipantDear Katrine,
I am glad your manager is fine, but this hostel doesn’t seem like a safe place during the night. It’s good you don’t have to work the night shift… I am also glad they won’t host private events any more, where most of the trouble happens.
heās nearly walked out a couple of times because he wonāt risk his mental health over it witch I completely understand. I hope that it will have consecvenses for the him, heās always been like this and will never change (he has his own issues and mental health problemes)
So this has happened before? There’s some guy with mental health problems who has been harassing the kitchen stuff, and was even biting them, and he’s still working there?? Why is he allowed to stay?
Yes. I still get a bit nervous around him, especially that day cuz he wasnāt on the work schedule so didnāt expect him to be there. But Iām glad that I managed to not give in to my anxiety and just stare at my phone.
Good for you! No wonder you get nervous (I guess you still like him?), but at least you don’t run away, you don’t act weird but you try to engage. That’s good progress!
I was just really surprised because I had no idea that he likes me that way. He said that he respects our friendship and understand if I donāt want to take it further but if I want to date him now or in the future to let him know.
He (the chef) seems like a decent guy. He had a thing for you, but he knew you had a crush on someone else, so he didn’t say anything. When the “cute guy” started dating your new colleague, is that when he (the chef) admitted his feelings for you?
I have been aprehensive about it because we are friends and if it doesnāt work out you could potentialy loose a friend. At least with the cute guy there was a distance. But the thought of dating him has crossed my mind so we will see.
Well, it’s a bit of a weird situation because the cute guy is single again, so perhaps you’re still having some hope that you might end up together?
A couple of months after I moved abroad again and as much as I would love to start therapy itās expensive and hard to find a good match
Yeah that’s true… but my suggestion is that if you decide to go to therapy, perhaps first ask a few people you trust (such as your best friend) if they know someone good. If they don’t know anybody, you can check the internet and look for therapists who know to work with childhood trauma (if they mention the inner child – the better). You can check the person’s credentials and see if you like their vibe. Maybe they have a video or two, so you can see if you like them.
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