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TeeParticipantDear Hello,
I am sorry about your husband’s behavior… he does seem uncooperative, uninterested in improving the relationship with you, and even blaming you for wanting to change him. He doesn’t see any fault in his behavior and is sort of “unrepentant” and doesn’t care about your feelings.
This is quite indicative:
I told him he had to see a counselor at the beginning of the year. He did but he used the time to construct the narrative that I was the bad guy for āmaking him goā and came out on the other end angry and bitter at me.
Narcissists can be like that – they charm away the therapist and convince them that there’s nothing wrong with them, but that the problem is in you. Do you think he might have narcissistic tendencies?
We were married very quickly so I never got a chance to get to know him.
What was the reason for getting married so quickly, if I may ask? Was he love-bombing you in the beginning (something that narcissists typically do) and you fell for it?
His suspicious and unaccounted for spending of money – specially when you’re on a tight budget – is also unacceptable. Have you talked to him about it? Have you asked him why he has withdrawn 700 in cash? (you don’t need to tell him you went through his pockets)
I pretty much have given him a diplomatic ultimatum so to speak at least twice and he still hasnāt respected that.
A “diplomatic ultimatum” is kind of an oxymoron – an ultimatum cannot by diplomatic by definition š Ultimatum is more like “either you do this, or else… ” So I guess even if you told him he “must” delete the app, you never did anything when he didn’t – there were no consequences of his inaction. He kept being “defiant”.
In general, ultimatums are not the best way to communicate in a marriage. But it seems it has been very difficult to communicate with him, and even couple’s counseling didn’t help much (Weāve seen one together but we didnāt get far). What happened in couple’s counseling, if I may ask?
In any case, if he keeps being disrespectful and completely uninterested in changing his behavior, then there is no point in trying to make things work, but the only reasonable solution is to separate/divorce. It’s good that you seem to be mentally and emotionally prepared for this possibility (I pretty much donāt have anything left and am ready to move forward with my life in peace.)
TeeParticipantDear humour,
My mother has grown weak with age but she has returned to her usual strong self. She just wants to see me happy.
It’s good to hear your mother has gotten stronger again and “can do without you”, i.e. doesn’t depend on your help. My mother also always said she wants me to be happy, however she criticized me a lot while I was growing up and didn’t have faith in me. So she kind of ruined my capacity to be happy… It took me many years to regain it…
And it’s always like that with childhood trauma – it ruins or severely limits our capacity for happiness. For example, we may feel confused and incapable of knowing what’s good for us. We don’t trust ourselves. I was like that. It came from my mother’s criticism of me, and then later I made some wrong choices, which left me feeling I can’t trust my judgment and I don’t know what is good for me.
It seems that you too have a similar belief about yourself:
I may be falling behind in life, not sure of the choices I have made, little afraid to make choices for the future. Everyone around me seems to be making a lot of progress. I donāt think I have failed but I feel I have not lived upto my true potential.
It seems you too believe that you can’t trust your judgment and that you’re afraid of making choices in the future. Another belief that I see in your words is “I am falling behind, I am worse than others”, which usually boils down to “I am a failure.” I had this belief for a long time too.
My false core beliefs are mostly the consequence of my mother’s heavy criticism, and then my father not protecting me from it, not standing up for me. So I was alone mostly, no one giving me encouragement and support, and no one telling me that I was lovable and worthy. I adopted the belief that I was faulty to my core. And also worthless.
I wonder what your family dynamics was. You did share a little about your family, mostly that yours wasn’t a happy and “normal” family. And that you tried everything to make them happy, but failed. What was your relationship with your mother, i.e. your father when you were a child? Because it defines what messages and false beliefs we adopt about ourselves.
TeeParticipantDear Hello,
you ask “lack of respect or cheating?” Well, it could be either, but both is bad. You’re right that you’ve given him an ultimatum. What did you tell him the consequence will be if he doesn’t delete the app?
Because you’ve asked him at least 3 times so far, and it fell on deaf ears. And you let it go. Maybe he thinks it will be the same this time…
In any case, I encourage you to be firm this time and don’t let him get away with it. Do you think you’d be able to do it?
Happy Thanksgiving to you too!
TeeParticipantDear Addy,
you’re welcome, I am glad you liked the example.
Just today Iāve tried to empathize my friend, but the thing was that her stupidity made me little grumpy so.. Like who reads negative news (Murder and etc) super early in the morning and then be like āIt felt like a nightmareā?
As anita said, when you see someone as stupid, it prevents you to empathize with them. OK, maybe you don’t see her as stupid, but you thought her behavior is stupid (to read the news first thing in the morning). But even so, an empathic response would have been something like “Oh that’s terrible” (reacting to the news of some murder). And then proceed with a suggestion “you know, that’s why I never read news so early in the morning – sometimes they are so horrible they spoil my entire day. I prefer to start with xyz…” (here you describe what helps you start your day in a positive, uplifting way).
So you empathize with her feeling of distress, and then you suggest something which might help her in the future. But you don’t push your opinion on her (specially since she didn’t ask for your advice), and you don’t treat her as inferior to you. If you do that, you won’t sound grumpy or condescending…
And for work I had to speak in Indirect way to one of the colleague ā like yeah itās not like I told you to do it 3 days before. Obviously, you have other important stuff to doāĀ but after that I felt like I did hurt her in some way.
Yes, that was rather cynical. Was it your subordinate to whom you said that? Was she supposed to complete a task and failed to do that, and this was your way of scolding/criticizing her?
I donāt know why attacking like that is a reflex for me
Being cynical and sarcastic is a defense mechanism. I think it happens when our heart is closed (guarded), and so we’re not able to empathize with others. A lot of people use it in communication on social media, specially when they argue with people with differing opinions, because it seems cool. When you use sarcasm, you’re not vulnerable. It’s like a shield. But when you use sarcasm with people with whom you want to have a close, friendly relationship, that’s a problem. Because we don’t want to throw poisonous darts at them. Rather, we won’t honest and open communication…
If you use sarcasm automatically, like a reflex, it could be because you were attacked a lot in your childhood, and you learned to close your heart and pretend it doesn’t hurt. And then you use poisonous darts to defeat the “enemy”. Maybe it’s like you’re saying “you can’t hurt me, I’ll rather hurt you“.
Maybe I buried something so deep for so long that I donāt even remember but itās still there and I donāt know how to work on that
It could be that you built a shield around your heart, so you can’t be hurt again? And this shield goes up automatically, whenever you feel a certain friction or disagreement with anybody? And you start throwing those “darts” at them?
TeeParticipantDear Pradeep,
you are so welcome! I am really happy your son has started to open up, engage with you and his mother more, and even enrolled in a gym! That’s wonderful!! It seems that both you and him are benefiting from having a relationship based on empathy and understanding, and you being more like a well-meaning friend than a strict, demanding father. Fantastic!
I am really happy for you, and I hope it will only deepen and last. If there are some setbacks, please let us know. Wish you luck, and keep up with the good work!
TeeParticipantDear humour,
Actually my mother is healing with me but she has always been strong and supportive and kept the family together.
You said she used to be strong and supportive, but when your father died in 2017, she suddenly became weak and fragile, both physically and emotionally:
My mother has always been a strong lady who took care of all important things around the house but once my father passed on, my mother has grown weak, physically and emotionally. She has grown tender towards me. … I am really worried if I can let go off my mother. … I find it hard to accept the fact that mom could get lonely…
Does it mean that she has returned to her usual strong self in the last 5 years? And that you’re not worried any more about her being lonely and unhappy?
As for binge eating, you said:
I eat healthy food too but I also eat because I crave a good feeling.
Are you perhaps aware of an inner critical voice (the inner critic) which is telling you certain negative things about yourself? For example, “I’ll never be happy”, or “I am such a freak” (both of these is what I’ve been telling myself while suffering from an ED). So what are those thoughts/beliefs that you have about yourself, which sort of run half-consciously in the back of your mind?
TeeParticipantDear humour,
My mother is very supportive when I am down but I also stand up for myself if there is unreasonable blaming etc.
So she does blame you sometimes? What is she blaming you for, if I may ask?
It could be that your mother needs you as her care-taker, so when you’re down, she wants to make you feel better, and that’s why she is supportive. However, her motive might be to cheer you up, so you can take care of her again.
But when you have needs of your own, she might be blaming you for those needs? She might be supportive conditionally – only when it suits her. Is that what your dynamics look like?
TeeParticipantDear anxie1y/thosedays,
I am sorry you’re feeling bad š
After a lot of reading, I finally found myself diagnosed with adult ADHD.
Have you been evaluated by a professional? You did say you would go get a professional evaluation, but I am still asking because it’s not clear from your sentence.
I don’t know much about adult ADHD, but they say it’s highly treatable. Do you have a treatment plan?
Please share whatever you feel like, whatever you’re struggling with. I hope that with a proper treatment and a proper attitude, you will get better!
TeeParticipantDear humour,
I eat healthy food too but I also eat because I crave a good feeling.
I see… so it’s mostly emotional eating then. I was like that too – wanted to get a good feeling, to forget about the pain (but as I said, I didn’t know back then that I was soothing myself…).
My mother is very supportive when I am down but I also stand up for myself if there is unreasonable blaming etc. We have a fairly healthy relationship.
That’s good to hear. So with her you feel you can stand up for yourself and set boundaries, without feeling guilty? And what you said earlier that you often don’t know what a normal reaction is – it happens in other relationships?
Experiences are teaching me a lot of things. I wish I did not have to learn this way. The downside is I am losing people although I m gaining a lot of lessons on the art of living.
Due to your negative experiences in childhood, you’ve adopted a certain belief system and certain core beliefs about yourself, which aren’t true. You may not be aware of those false beliefs, but they are affecting you and your relationships even to this day. And if you haven’t healed those childhood wounds properly, I am guessing that similar unpleasant experiences keep happening to you, and they are only confirming those false beliefs that you have about yourself or other people (or the world). That’s probably one of the reasons why you’re “losing people”. Because you’re reacting from those old wounds…
Have you been in therapy? Have you worked on your childhood wounds and your unmet childhood needs?
TeeParticipantDear humour,
Maybe there is more than one reason causing me to binge eat. I am not able to figure it out. I feel hungry most of the time but this is not happening since a long time, just a recent development.
If you feel hungry most of the time, it could be even something to do with your health, e.g. diabetes or hyperthyroidism. Did you have your blood work done recently? When you binge eat, do you feel hungry, or it’s more like “emotional” eating?
Yes Tee, I am currently living with my mother.
And how is it to live with your mother? You’ve shared that you like to help, so I am guessing you’re helping her a lot? How is it otherwise? (if you’d like to share)
I think understanding your relationship with your mother (and your late father) can help you understand yourself and also the way you behave in romantic relationships. For example, if we haven’t felt loved as children, we’ll often be attracted to people who aren’t interested in us, or who are emotionally unavailable. And we’ll suffer because our love isn’t reciprocated. Maybe you had experiences like that?
TeeParticipantDear Addy,
[Tee] In fact, there is a step before that: In order to validate another personās pain, we need to first be in touch with our own pain and validate our pain. We canāt be empathetic with others unless we feel empathy for ourselves first.
[Addy] But I couldnāt understand this. What if we didnāt have the similar pain or experience?
Hm, I think that we don’t actually have to have a similar type of experience (a similar wounding) to understand someone else’s pain. My pain can come from e.g. being criticized, and someone else’s pain can come from being neglected – from their parent not paying attention to them. But the inner feeling of pain is similar: feeling unloved, uncared for, unsupported…
Maybe it can be compared to physical pain: I can empathize with someone who has broken their leg, even tough I myself have never broken a limb. But I can imagine how hard it is for them, and I have experienced other types of physical pain, so I can relate.
I don’t know if this explains it?
TeeParticipantHello Pradeep,
Tee here š
I am sorry about your skin allergy – wish you a speedy recovery!!
I think you are bang on ā he does have low self esteem and all the other issues you mentioned. Though I canāt figure out why because right from his childhood his mom quite her job to be with the children and I eased up at 40 to be available to my kids and have supported them throughout.
Hm, I don’t want to speculate why he might have developed low self-esteem, nor am I saying that it is your (his parents’) fault that he is like that. It seems you and your wife did everything to provide him a nice childhood, not just materially but also emotionally, since e.g. your wife quit her job so she can spend more time with the children. And it sounds like you were not an “absent father” either – you said you were quite supportive too.
If you feel you provided enough emotional support, without too much criticism, scolding, or making him feel like he isn’t good enough – well then, it’s not your fault. There could be other reasons for his low self-esteem, e.g. his school (bullying by his peers, just as one possible example). Or his sensitive nature as well. Or a mix of both.
Whatever the reason, he is an adult now and should take responsibility for himself. The fact that he is behaving irresponsibly and gets angry and dismissive if you even bring it up – shows that he isn’t willing to take responsibility for himself. He isn’t willing to look at his problem and address it, but wants to behave a little like a “spoiled child” and wants you to leave him alone.
Your wife might be somewhat of an enabler, fearing that if she is strict with him and sets some boundaries, it will be even worse.
Dr. Henry Cloud, a clinical psychologist, has a very interesting video on the topic of parents as enablers, and how to deal with problematic adult children. The video is titled “Breaking Codependent Patterns with Adult Kids“, and I recommend you watch it. I don’t know how much it applies to your son, but the point is that you as his parents should not be the source of help, but a bridge for him to find help (e.g. you should encourage him to seek therapy). Your role is to strengthen his capacity to help himself.
You may e.g. demand that he goes to therapy, or that he wakes up every day at a certain time, otherwise you can’t have him stay at your house, for example. The point is that the current situation isn’t helping him and I think you need to set some boundaries. You don’t need to be cruel with him, but you can set boundaries lovingly. Let me know how this sounds…
TeeParticipantDear humour,
you are welcome.
I usually donāt get angry easily, yet I will think on the lines you have mentioned, Tee.
Please do, because I don’t think you’re a super laid back person with a thick skin, who isn’t hurt by anything, are you? It sounds more like you are hurt and upset by things, but instead of reacting, you rather suppress those emotions. You don’t like reacting and showing people what you feel (am I right in assuming this?). And binge eating could be a way to soothe yourself, or distract yourself, so that you don’t feel those unpleasant emotions.
I agree with anita that it would help to observe yourself and see what triggers your binge eating episodes…
Actually the split is in my family of origin and it was natural, due to death and my sibling moving out after being marriage.
I see… so the split happened in 2017, when your father died and your sister moved out after she got married? Are you currently living with your mother?
I am looking out for a partner but havenāt been successful on that front.
You’re welcome to share more about it, if you’d like to…
TeeParticipantDear Addy,
Thank you both for your insightful response. It lightened my bulb about being Empathic. I should try to be more empathic than trying to not criticize… I need to be more compassionate with others and myself.
you are very welcome. I am glad your light bulb went off about needing to have more empathy, not just for others but for yourself too.
I donāt like when people complain and not doing anything about it.
mostly what I do is when I listen to complain I directly go for solutions
This kind of approach is called the unbalanced masculine: when someone complains about something, i.e. expresses pain or hurt, we immediately offer solutions, instead of simply saying “I am sorry, this must be hard for you.”
Validating the person’s pain is the first step to empathy. In fact, there is a step before that: In order to validate another person’s pain, we need to first be in touch with our own pain and validate our pain. We can’t be empathetic with others unless we feel empathy for ourselves first.
I donāt want complaint about him [your father] or as a matter of fact complain about anything. I just donāt see any value in doing that.
Constant complaining is not a good habit, and I understand if you don’t like it. However, expressing pain, hurt, sadness… isn’t necessarily bad. It doesn’t necessarily mean that we complain if we express our pain. In fact, expressing our emotions and naming them is the first step towards healing.
It seems to me, Addy, that the reason you don’t like listening to people “complaining” (i.e. sharing about something that bothers them) is that their pain reminds you of your pain, and you don’t want to get in touch with that pain (the pain you’ve experienced as a child and youth being heavily criticized by your father). You want to quickly jump to solutions, without “sitting” with that pain, without even admitting it’s there.
Empathy is the opposite of that: admitting the pain, sitting with it, not judging ourselves for it, just witnessing it and having compassion for ourselves for having experienced such pain.
What do you say?
TeeParticipantDear Katrine,
That feels really good to hear. I have been beating myself up really badly lately so itās good to hear. Focusing on the process instead of the end results, and Iāve actually stepped out of my comfort zone quiete a lot I need to remember that.
I am glad it helped you see things from a different perspective – that really, you did nothing bad, and even if you behaved anxiously around him sometimes, you addressed that and opened up to him, going against your usual fear and withdrawal reaction… so yes, you’ve made great progress, even though the end result wasn’t the one you were hoping for.
But you did everything in your power, there is nothing you could have done more. The fact that he didn’t respond positively is on him, not on you. You did great and made significant progress, so yes, please remind yourself of that whenever you start doubting yourself!
Iām also trying to think about it more nuanced, like right now heās stuck in my head as this amazing fantasy of what could have been. But having feelings for someone and what itās like actually being with them is two different things. I have been focusing on the fact that we have many things in common that we could have bonded over like we both have a past, anxiety and a diagnosis. But that could also have worked against us, having a past thatās contanly getting triggered. Like Anita said so well in a post that a person who is unwell is not inclined to think much or care much about how his/her behaviour affects others. He has been drinking a lot lately, he knows itās bad for his health a tries to stop but still ends up doing it. He used to work 8 jobs and party to the early morning, sleep two hours and then start again.
Right.. he seems quite troubled. And if he’s started drinking more heavily again, it means he’s in pain and chooses to numb/soothe himself with alcohol, rather than address the pain and try to heal it. It’s hard to be in a relationship with someone who is addicted, because those people are indeed selfish (addiction makes them so). So even if he said yes, he would have probably hurt you sooner or later, and it wouldn’t have been a dream relationship that you fantasized about…
In fact, there is a saying “Be careful what you wish for – you might get it”. I think it can be applied to your situation too, because he seems like someone who is very confused, doesn’t know what he wants, and is in quite a lot of pain which he’s not dealing with in healthy ways… so it wouldn’t have been a very healthy relationship, it seems to me.
I have been isolating myself a lot lately, been very agitated and moody and extremely reactive. I can go from 0 to a 100 in a split sec emotionally and itās really hard on my health. I can start seeing the difference between being regulated, Iām open, more authentic and can see him with empathy and that me being interested is just a really big compliment. When Iām dysregulated I view everyone as an enemy, someone who will hurt me even my friends and family regardless of them proving otherwise. So now I know that when I start isolating, getting defensive and pushing people away and wanting to cut all ties with them (like I felt with him, getting angry and wanted to completly ignore him) then I need to give myself a time out because I am not myself. Learning to self regulate is something I need to learn.
It’s good that you’re observing yourself and seeing the difference in your behavior when you’re mostly calm and relaxed vs. when you’re triggered. A very big difference, you say. And it changes in a split second, once you get triggered.
You’ve already identified the first step to do when you get triggered: to pause and give yourself time. Excellent! In addition, you can practice other emotional regulation techniques, such as diaphragmatic breathing and grounding techniques, which help you to stay in the present moment and observe yourself, rather than slip into the fight-or-flight mode and react impulsively.
I think I’ve already mentioned it, but there is a youtube video by Dr. Nicole Lepera about what to do when you’re triggered, i.e. dysregulated. The title is “Here’s what to do when you’re triggered.”
She suggests 3 steps: 1) deep, belly breathing, 2) observing yourself, i.e. not identifying yourself with the wounded part which is coming up with the old narrative and flooding us with the emotions of hurt and reject (in your case, the wounded part is telling you that nobody loves you or cares about you, and that you’re worthless). So observe those thoughts and emotions, but don’t identify yourself with them. And 3) accept yourself with all those feelings and thoughts coming up – without judging yourself – and just allow those emotions to ride through you, like a wave. Eventually, they will subside.
Let me know if you’ve tried the exercise…
Saying to myself that people are actually interessted in hanging out with me, feels weird. Like Iām not completly convinced that they do. But many people at work has in fact reached out and wanted to spend time with me which they didnāt have to so they must see something good in my company.
Yes! People have reached out to you, Y has reached out to meet you recently, so yes, they like your company. You are likeable and people like hanging out with you. That’s the truth, and I hope you’ll accept it more and more…
Last night Y and I was supposed to go out for a drink just the two of us, but we 9 other people (mostly staff) ended up joining. That would normally have made me insanly nervous because more people having fun drinking makes me feel like the outsider. But it was really fun and I didnāt walk away feeling sad. So that was another win for me.
Yay! I am so glad that you weren’t nervous among so many people and in fact had a good time, leaving with good, pleasant memories. That’s another great achievement, Katrine! I am happy for you!
I am hoping that someone will ask me to join them for New Yearās Eve, to feel included. I donāt want to have to feel like I have to invite myself because that would make me feel pathetic.
Are you hoping that X and Y will invite you to join their party (after your shift is over)? Or there’s another party you have in mind?
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Though I run this site, it is not mine. It's ours. It's not about me. It's about us. Your stories and your wisdom are just as meaningful as mine. 