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Dear Lori, Helcat and all,

I too am sorry that anita chose to leave, even though nobody forced her to, moreover she in her most recent posts expressed that she doesn’t want to leave. I too valued her contributions immensely and I believe that her presence on the forums will be irreplaceable, since she was completely dedicated to helping each and every person, and no one’s post was left unanswered. Also, she offered super valuable advice and insight to so many people. Her contributions will really be missed 🙁

I agree with Lori that the situation with anita and Helcat isn’t black-and-white. In my opinion, there was sensitivity on both sides. For example, anita didn’t mean to question the validity of Helcat’s childhood trauma, but Helcat seems to have interpreted anita’s words as questioning and possibly accusing her of lying, which wasn’t anita’s intention.

But, truth to be told, anita has in the past accused several members of lying and inventing their stories, which led to some of those members leaving and deleting their accounts. I am not sure if this is what made you, Helcat, super vigilant and believing that anita accused you of the same, when in fact she didn’t?

I want to stress that anita helped hundreds of people with kindness, care and respect, whereas the instances where it wasn’t the case were pretty rare. The good that she did far outweighed a sporadic problematic reaction here and there.

But if we want to talk about how to prevent such situations in the future (answering to Lori’s question “If anyone has any thoughts to share to help me better address situations like this in the future, feel free to post them below!”), what I see as problematic is that I started to censor myself whenever I noticed a potential problem in anita’s reactions (which, I want to stress again, was very very rarely).

But nevertheless, anita reacted very strongly to criticism, even constructive criticism, directed at her. And she came up with a rule, which I believe isn’t a part of the forum guidelines, which she repeated to Helcat too (on Sept 18, 2022):

To promote safety and calm in the forums, it is important that Responders (members who choose to reply to an OP, in the OP’s thread)  do not criticize other Responders. It is not at all necessary because a Responder can thoroughly express his/ her understandings, convictions, etc.-  as many times as she wants, and at length- without criticizing other responders. Not only is there no benefit to the OP in such criticism, but it can easily turn an OP away from his/ her thread and discourage Responders from responding because of fear of being criticized.

This “rule” basically says that we shouldn’t say anything, even if one member is being unkind to another member. Anita presented this rule to me too, when I once tried to point out that she might be unkind or insensitive to another member. She reacted very strongly, explained why it was wrong of me to address her directly in the OP’s thread, and told me she wouldn’t be communicating with me again.

I’ve recognized it was a sensitive spot for her, and I think she too realized it in the meanwhile (and we’ve smoothed our misunderstanding since). However, the result was that from that moment on, I’ve never said anything, even if sometimes I’ve noticed things that bothered me.

This “rule” silenced me. I didn’t want to say anything to anita, because she truly did so much good on the forums and I didn’t want to provoke unnecessary conflict.

I understand how this rule can be beneficial too, because it prevents exactly that – unnecessary conflict and criticism among members. But when taken to the extreme, it can discourage constructive criticism as well, and things are swept under the rug, instead of clarified and talked about.

So, I agree with Brandy that this could be an opportunity for growth for all of us. At least it is for me. As much as I cherish peace and no conflict, sometimes it is necessary to speak out, even if it might be uncomfortable. Constructive criticism, when there is a loving intention behind it, isn’t bad, but necessary.

It is also my impression that Helcat’s criticism of anita was partially constructive (i.e. justified) and partially stemmed from over sensitivity. That’s why I said I believe this wasn’t a black-and-white situation. But unfortunately anita saw it as black-and-white. She felt attacked and even stalked by Helcat, and chose to leave. And it’s a huge loss for the community.

I truly hope she works through some things and returns to the forum, because her help, advice and care will be greatly missed.

Dear SereneWolf,

yeah I’m kinda beginner to intermediate level in French. Because I adore romance languages. I want to learn Spanish, Portuguese and Italian as well.

Wow, you’re quite ambitious wanting to learn 3 new languages! I myself am more of an utalitarian type of person – I’d do it only if I absolutely need it, e.g. if I want to live there.

You see he’s an angel investor in that company. And that position’s salary range is quite high so… and most of all 100% Remote work! Now you see what I mean?

OK, I get it now: it’s in his interest to employ the best workforce in that other company, so it makes sense why he’d encourage you to apply…. Good then, I am not suspicious any more 🙂

It’s been few months in city and I’m already feeling bored so I need new city adventure you know

So you too are keen to leave, right, because you’ve started getting bored with the city you live?

Yeah because I noticed that some of the freshers still get anxious and worried for every little work even though I gave them freedom to make mistakes (In a way which I can solve without much issue) So I think if they’re more mindful about this it would be lot better for them in long run.

Great that you gave the newcomers the freedom to make mistakes, so they don’t need to feel so anxious! That, together with some meditation techniques, might be really helpful.

But I think it’s still win-win situation for both of us. And another thing that I’m doing is that two of my assistants making “ready” for the work that is unfinished or let’s say just continue with the better stability. That way I wouldn’t have to worry much of my absence and ruining the values that I’ve created there.

Yeah, it seems like a win-win situation because both of you find it beneficial. And you’re doing a good job preparing your successors to keep up with the practices you’ve started.

Right and What kind of things could be helpful for automatic triggered reactions in your opinion?

Well, the first thing is to become more mindful – to slow down and observe yourself as you’re going through some of those triggering situations. To notice that e.g. “my anxiety is going up because she mentioned a long-term commitment”. You notice it and you know it’s a trigger for you, which gets you to react defensively (fight-or-flight).

So if you don’t want to react defensively and run away immediately, you may want to take some slow breaths to calm yourself down. And you can tell yourself “I am being triggered now”. Also, don’t judge yourself for being triggered. Instead, have compassion for yourself as you’re observing the surge of emotions and the impulse to run away.

So just breathe and observe yourself without judgment. That will help you stay in your rational brain and not be completely taken over by the limbic brain. Maybe this is enough for starters. Or you can also tell yourself something like “I don’t need to get married if I don’t want to. I am free to decide what I want to do.” If you don’t trust these affirmations (i.e. if you don’t trust that you have the freedom to decide), you’d need to work on that in therapy.

But in any case, strengthening the observer part of yourself would be very important. Your therapist suggested the same: mindfulness. Be mindful, i.e. notice when you get triggered. And then try to slow down and calm yourself down, instead of reacting from your limbic brain, making rash decisions.….

She told me to work on being kind with myself and loving myself more. Because it’s a part my CEN (Childhood emotional neglect) and True healing occurs when I learn to BE the loving parent to myself that I never had – Like we talked about the parent figure before (But in most natural and mindful way possible)

Yes, when you make a mistake, or when you feel you should be doing more at work, call in the positive father figure and send the drill sergeant away 🙂

And another main thing is that my ability to trust others. Because she told me being so much independent since the teenage years now you have mindset that thinks I don’t need anyone (Emotionally) and I’m safe by myself that’s why you fear the emotional vulnerability with others.

Yes, you’ve been independent since your teenage years, and it certainly made an impact on you. In fact, you said the reason you left home at 16 or 17 was that you didn’t want anyone (specially your parents) to tell you what to do and how to live your life. You wanted to be free from their grip and their control (and their judgment).

Living with someone and being partially “dependent” on them, or at least affected by them, probably causes a terrible fear in you. Because in your mind, it could be that living with someone means to be subject to their control, judgment, constraints to your freedom etc. Maybe you equate living with a partner to living with your parents…. and it terrifies you?

It was insightful and something to think about

Glad you liked the video!

about bad connection one thing is that now I feel like I’m working on it good enough that I don’t let other people judgments define me so even if they say something I don’t care about it. For example, like what my father told me in past and how critical he was, Yeah, I accept that it gave me an emotional wound to heal but I’m at least not letting that wound to get worse.

It’s good you’re not allowing other people’s criticism get under your skin as much as before. And that you’re developing more and more self-compassion and treating yourself with kindness.

Where I notice your childhood wound is still having an impact on you is in intimate relationships. You’re afraid of intimacy, of being judged by the other, perhaps of being controlled by them and losing your freedom. As I said above, perhaps you see an intimate relationship a similar kind of prison like you saw your childhood and the relationship with your parents? And that’s why the very idea of living with someone in a committed relationship gives you the creeps?

And for Real connection – and I think it’s a good reminder of what we talked about having a good supportive people around

I can safety say that my real connections are growing. They help me become who I and empowers me. You, Some good supportive friends, Good career mentors…

I am glad that your real connections are growing, and that you see me too as someone who supports your growth. I am really happy for you and am rooting for you, as you continue to walk your path!

Dear SereneWolf,

I’m stressed out for other things like if I’m going to join the company, again I’ll have to build the good team relationships with different people.

Oh so you would be leaving to another company? I thought you’d be moving up the ladder in your current one… What made you want to leave so soon, after only 3 months of being a manager there?

The team that I have now I’m just too much comfortable around them but now thinking about other people and task feels like so much challenge and I’m feeling anxious, overwhelmed and about this. I’m asking myself like am I capable of doing this?

Well, it is sort of sudden… Although you’d probably manage to get used to the new people, just like you did with your current team. You say you feel “too much comfortable” around them – does it mean the atmosphere is pleasant and you work well together as a team? What about the changes and improvements you’ve introduced – are you pleased with that?

Well that would be like I’m kind of dependent? Also it’s just I don’t know awkward for me

Okay, so if you show the need for her love and attention, you’re afraid you’ll seem needy, and this to you is a weakness, right?

There is a great video by Henry Cloud about the importance of connection. He talks about 4 states we can be in: 1) alone and disconnected, 2) in a bad relationship, 3) numbing the pain of loneliness with various addictions including escape into work, and 4) in a healthy relationship.

The title of the video is “Why it’s important to stay connected“. In the first 2 minutes there’s a bit of rambling, but after that he gets into the meat of it – definitely worth watching!

Thanks for your advice for the date I’ll take the important notes like Asking instead of assuming and Honest and open communication.

You’re welcome!

So just today we were talking and out of nowhere she asked like are you a person who prefers commitment in relationship or the other way around. So I told her that Honestly if she’s thinking about anything long term commitment with me She can stop. Because as of now I’m not ready for that and therefore I don’t want to waste your time and energy if you want something like that.

I see… so it seems your fear of a long-term commitment got triggered when she mentioned  it, and your knee-jerk reaction was to run away. A while ago we talked about a committed relationship and freedom, and how it is possible to have both, of course with the right person. But I guess you fear was stronger, so you didn’t want to even try to see what happens next in the relationship and if such compatibility is possible. You called it quits immediately. I am not saying this to judge you, but so you can notice what happened…

So she was like I already feel exhausted from dating and things (She’s same age as me) So I was surprised. So I was like I feel like I’ve only started this. And you’re already exhausted?

Well, it could be that she’s already experienced quite a few failed relationships and would like at least a chance at something serious? That the guy she is dating doesn’t categorically refuse such an option…

Maybe her question scared you away, because you thought she’ll be expecting you to marry her? But perhaps she only asked if you’re open to a long-term committed relationship, i.e. don’t exclude this possibility from the get-go?

Dear Mindy,

I am so sorry for all the horrible losses you’ve experienced in recent years. The way the deaths of your loved ones happened – suddenly and unexpectedly – made them even more traumatic. Even your husband, who was sick with cancer and dementia died suddenly, due to a fall. I can’t even imagine how hard and devastating it was to have this series of tragedies all happen within the span of a few years.

But perhaps the worst of all is the way how your youngest son and his family (including your ex husband) is treating you. It is indespicable that they are blaming you for your oldest son’s death, and that they said horrible lies to the police so they had you handcuffed and taken away!

That’s malignant and outright evil! You said your youngest son always felt entitled, and it could be that this is his revenge for you not giving him the money he was asking for, for not giving him what he wanted?

It is awful that your youngest son and his family are still blaming you and harassing you on social networks. What would be important is that you don’t believe their accusations! I hope you don’t, and that you can see that you are in no way to blame for your son’s death. Those are malignant and unjustified accusations – just like those after your son died – and it seems their goal is to destroy you and your mental health. Perhaps your ex husband participates because he still resents you for leaving him and remarrying (if this is what happened?) and he is punishing you for that?

In any case, it would be extremely important that 1) you don’t believe those accusations, and 2) that you surround yourself with people who support you and are on your side.

It’s great that you have a therapist, but as you say, that’s not enough. Is there a Church you can join or another supportive community (perhaps you can look up a group of parents with estranged children)?

I think it’s crucial for your well-being that you’re not alone with your thoughts all the time, and that you have someone who doesn’t blame you and accuse you all the time. Because that’s what you’ve been receiving all this time. Instead, you need people who have empathy and understanding for you, and who are on your side.

Dear SereneWolf,

thank you for your prayers and support! Thankfully I am a bit better now (had a bit of a rough patch last week) and am continuing with physical therapy.

Finally, I got a really good opportunity for a Management Position and I’m on interview stage so I’m hoping to get this position.

Last time I forgot to congratulate you on you applying for a management position – how did it go? Did you get it?

I’m understanding that now that how much energy and guts needs be sensitive and vulnerable. Yet it’s really important. The person we share sad times we bond with them are much stronger than when we’re just smiling around people even though spending more time with them.

Very true! The strength and quality of the relationship can be seen in tough times, not when everything goes smoothly…

Yes you guessed it right. I do think it’s maybe because of that

Okay, so be aware that you have this false belief “if I show vulnerability, I’ll be attacked.” And change it to some positive statement about vulnerability, e.g. “showing vulnerability is key for a loving relationship”.

Yes exactly! And the thing is whenever I needed something, and it wasn’t there. Like if we scheduled something and I’m giving it importance, but she isn’t, it would just make me furious even though I knew it’s not right to be angry on small matters like that and yet I was doing the silent treatment.

Alright, so now you know what triggered your anger in the relationship: when you felt hurt by something your girlfriend did or failed to do, but were unwilling to express that hurt and tell her what bothers you. Instead, you got angry at her for not seeing your hurt, for not recognizing your needs. That’s when you started to close your heart and the shield went up.

You were angry, even furious at her, but I guess you didn’t want to show your anger either (you didn’t want to be aggressive and yell at her – which is good!). So what you did is use passive aggressive means: sarcasm and silent treatment. They are both expressions of anger, only in a veiled form. With silent treatment, we’re punishing the person for hurting us. The problem is that the person might not even know that they’ve hurt us, since we haven’t told them!

So the solution would be that when you feel your girlfriend is doing something that hurts you – to tell her, instead of resenting her for not figuring it out on her own. Once you tell her, you’ll see how she reacts and whether she can understand and empathize with you…

By the way, I haven’t asked you about your date which was supposed to happen last weekend, right? (around 10 days ago) How did it go, if you don’t mind me asking?

Dear SereneWolf,

sorry for a later reply, I am not doing that great health-wise, which bogs me down quite a bit.

Yes, you’re right and I’m working towards putting good silence on that drill sergeant.

Good to hear that! I like how you approached the mishap with the missed online meeting. Although it was your fault, this person’s reaction was quite unforgiving. First, they logged out within less than 5 minutes of the agreed time. And then they refused to reschedule – showing no understanding and a strong judgmental attitude. So you’re right, it’s probably for the best that you don’t have them as your client.

I think the thing is that I know I’m sensitive. This could be my strength and my weakness. Both. But unconsciously I maybe still thinking more as a weakness and less as a strength. Means still there is some kind of fear.

Yes, sensitivity is the same as vulnerability. You may think it’s your weakness, but at the end of the day, it’s your strength, specially in a romantic relationship. (Just as a side note, we’re not meant to be vulnerable in every relationship, of course, e.g. we don’t want to be sensitive/vulnerable with ill-meaning, toxic people!). However, in a romantic relationship, the goal is to be open and honest with each other, to be able to talk about our fears and weaknesses, and yet be understood and supported by the other – rather than blamed and judged.

You did say a while ago that you feared sharing too much of your “imperfections” or problems, even if your girlfriend showed compassion, because you thought it would make you “weaker” than her. As if she would use the knowledge of your weaknesses to hurt you, rather than to help you and encourage you…

So you might have a false belief, saying something like “if I show my weakness, I will be attacked”. Perhaps you’ve picked it up in your family of origin – because your father did indeed attack you and chastise you for showing even the slightest weakness? So you’ve learned to hide your weaknesses – not to be attacked?

Yet still there was times I wasn’t able to say things on their face like you’re doing this and it’s hurting me. I was just making sarcastic comment or neglecting on that and be like they should understand these “signals” and they will work on it.

Alright, so you didn’t dare to say that something was bothering you openly, but you used passive aggressive means, such as sarcasm. You were afraid to openly admit that something is hurting you. In other words, you were afraid to openly admit that you are vulnerable and that the person has the power to hurt you. And so instead, you put a shield around your heart… and the language of a shielded heart is sarcasm.

For example, instead of saying “it hurts me when you don’t reply to my texts for an entire day”, you say “I guess you’re so extremely busy that you don’t have time to reply to my texts”. It’s like sending a little poisonous arrow instead of being honest (and vulnerable) and saying “this hurts me”…

And when they haven’t changed their behavior patterns and did the same things over and over. I took it like they’re the ones not putting efforts (even though that they were somewhat aware of this) in this relationship only me who’s working for making it better. So I don’t want it and I’d just breakup.

Right… you felt that they didn’t care, even though you’ve never openly expressed what was bothering you. Instead of being honest and vulnerable, you rather blamed it on them and called it quits…. So perhaps your shield started to go up as soon as the person was doing something that was hurting you, but you didn’t have the courage to admit it, and so you switched to sarcasm and started feeling resentment?

Dear Katrine,

people always told me if i guy likes you would know but I’m always in doubt

well, it’s not always that obvious, because it can be that someone is a gentleman and kind, but doesn’t have romantic feelings for you. The example you gave, with a guy offering you an extra towel, could be an example of that… So you’re right to be cautious not to mistake politeness and kindness in general with liking you/having feelings for you.

But if someone wants to spend a lot of time around you, makes flirty comments (just to you), if you notice them watch you sometimes and they don’t remove their gaze instantly but keep it on you for a second longer – those are all signs that a guy likes you. And of course, if they invite you for a drink – that’s a clear sign.

i go go over to them and start conversations, and if i see them in the bar i go home because of my anxiety. I’ll reply when spoken to but I keep my distance.

I guess you meant to say “I don’t go over to them and start conversations”? If so, that’s not such a huge problem because not everyone is that self-confident and extroverted. You can be seen as shy, and that’s okay.

However, the fact that you leave the place when you see them – that’s a big problem. It sends a message to the guy that you don’t even want to communicate, that you’re not interested in them. If you avoid every opportunity to spend time with the guy you like, that’s a problem.

I’ll reply when spoken to but I keep my distance.

Is it that you reply briefly, but then you don’t ask them anything back? The conversation sort of dies, unless the guy keeps asking?

Like when he kept saying but who is gonna pour me a beer? I felt that by waiting the 30 min he would figure out i did it because of him and he would see me as clingy, but looking back waiting to go with two colleagues to go to the same party wasn’t gonna make me look clingy or weird.

Yes, he was sort of flirting with you, wanting you to stay for another half an hour, showing you he likes your company. If we like someone, we want to spend as much time as possible around them. It doesn’t make us clingy. Or better say, no wonder we want to cling to (be around) someone we like. So next time, don’t hesitate to “cling” to someone you like, specially if they want to hang around you as well 🙂

Yes I definitly see a pattern. It was so weird that it’s easier to be close to someone you don’t have feelings for than someone i like.

You’ve actually explained it so well already: because it hurts less should they reject you. The stakes aren’t so high.

I was thinking about the fact that you went out with the guys you didn’t like, and it occurred to me that it might have been a sort of “exposure therapy” for you – to get over the fear of men? I am saying this because you were told in your childhood to force yourself to do the things you fear… so perhaps you applied the same principle to your dating life, in order to get over the fear of men? If so, it’s only logical you’d rather date someone you don’t really like, because they’ll hurt you less than someone you like…

Do you think this could have been the case?

But yeah now i can start to break this pattern and I didn’t realise that I already did

Yes, that was a great success and a major breakthrough for you – breaking the old, destructive patterns!