Dear Katrine,

So my manager (the one who harrased the girl who reported him, and acted in apropiatly)

You mean the manager who harassed the girl for reporting the head chef was fired? Good that she had a proof about it!

I am so glad you’ve enjoyed your time with your parents, just the three of you! It was so nice of them to come promptly and support you during this hectic period. I can feel from your words that you appreciated it so much and had such a good time!

Dear SereneWolf,

I wish I could tell you I am feeling better, but I am not unfortunately… I’ll let you know if there’s some progress finally…

Yes I know but his mother is good natured and nice with me. So I’ll try to present this matter clear and calmly as possible. Because another thing I noticed is that I think she’s the main decision maker, her husband is naïve and he’s mostly saying yes to her. It’s actually funny to see them talking sometimes

Okay… if you share about your own childhood and your own experience, that might have some weight and she might consider it. Also, you can say that nowadays children spend too much time on the internet, and it’s not good for their health, so actually nowadays parents should encourage their children to go play outside and not try to keep them indoors.

This occurred to me because I’ve recently seen a cartoon about old and new trends. One of the illustrations shows the Old trend: mother pulling her son back to the house because he’s been playing too much outside, and New trend: mother pulling her son out of the house, while he is glued to his smart phone 🙂

No. Not really. Because I even told her about my hypothyroidism, and she took it well. And in past there was times when even if I have a headache, she’d get really worried.

But as far as I can remember I didn’t tried to regulate her moods.

Well, if in the past she got worried about you for even as little as headache – that’s a lot of worrying. Remember, what matters is what happened in your childhood – that’s the imprint you’re living with – even if now she’s not worrying that much. What did you do when she’d get worried about your headache, do you remember?

I mean which mother doesn’t worry about her kids? So it’s obvious that she is worried sometimes and yeah in the past I tried to hide things from my mother because I was scared that she’d be worried because I was still just a high school boy going in wilds…

Sure, that amount of worry is understandable, and since you were doing some really wild stuff, it’s sort of obvious why you didn’t want to tell her… But you also mentioned that she was worried when you wanted to learn how to swim, in a swimming pool with an instructor (if I remember well?). That’s a bit of an excessive worry, in my opinion. How old were you then?

So I was thinking about emotional enmeshment, which I suggested as a possibility last time, but based on everything we’ve talked about so far, and how you behave in relationships, I don’t think this is the case with you after all.

Because like in relationship I care too much and even if they’re little careless about their health or things that affect them or make them worry it makes me worry 3x times more and I can’t focus on my things.

You’ve talked about this before – that you get “overprotective” i.e. controlling when you try telling your girlfriend that she should eat healthier, or have better sleeping habits. From what I’ve understood, you don’t just tell her “you should get more sleep, staying late is bad for your health”, and then sort of let it go, but you turn into this drill sergeant who is pushing her to eat healthier, sleep healthier, etc. That’s the same drill sergeant who sometimes turns on you (in the form of the inner critic), and sometimes on the people close to you (in the form of the outer critic).

So it seems to me that the “care” you show towards your partner has this overlay of criticism. And so you turn into this overprotective, critical father, who is watching his “daughter’s” every step, trying to “improve” her. You get so focused on her and her problems, that it consumes you completely and you can’t focus on your own life.

I think this type of dynamic is not emotional enmeshment, but more like that you’re focusing too much on her and her “wellbeing” (but in a bad sense, like an overbearing parent), and then you’re frustrated when she doesn’t want to take your advice. This then is frustrating to you and you rather give up, i.e. leave the relationship.

What do you think? Does this sound plausible?

Oh and kind of a funny thing happened on valentine’s day. One of my friend’s doctor proposed me… It was really bold move for her.

Yes, it was! But you know you don’t need to accept her marriage proposal, right? 🙂

But to be honest I’m not putting up any high expectations. Go on a date, get to know her a little bit and then maybe something…

Exactly! No rush… If she wants to rush things, please know that you have the right to say No. Even if she doesn’t like that…

Dear Helcat,

I’d like to reply to your previous post too.

I think you’ve got the jist of what occurred.

Good, I am glad that the dynamics is a bit clearer now.

I don’t think anyone likes conflict. It’s actually really hard for me to talk to people about issues. I can’t even look at people during disagreements because I find it challenging and often cry. I was taught by my family to passively accept abuse and it’s not healthy for me to do so. For me, even though it is difficult, dealing with issues is the healthy thing to do.

I see… you don’t like conflict either, however it is important for you to speak out when treated badly, and to talk about things that bother you. To not passively accept abuse. That’s a very healthy approach actually! Yes, sometimes conflict is necessary – as in, expressing what’s bothering us, rather than staying silent for the sake of false peace.

As I’ve already mentioned, I did stay silent a couple of times on the forum, for the sake of “peace”. You didn’t want that, and you spoke out…

The problem, as I see it, is that you wanted something from anita – you wanted her to at least talk to you. You asked her several times to share her feelings and talk about what’s bothering her, but she didn’t want to talk to you. She told you already in September that she doesn’t want to communicate with you.

Although, she did make veiled critical remarks about you when communicating with other members (e.g. she mentioned that anybody can misuse the Report button). Even though she didn’t want to communicate with you directly, she kept making remarks about you. She was expressing that she was bothered.

And I guess this was hurtful for you… So I am thinking that maybe you wanted her to change her opinion about you, to think well of you? As I said, I think you needed “something” from her, and this something was maybe for her to stay in touch and to think well of you?

This is just an idea… let me know if it resonates?

I hope you don’t mind me “digging” further into this… if you do find it disturbing or not helpful, please let me know.

Dear Helcat,

I am truly sorry that you had to go through that level of abuse 🙁

Could you please just clarify so I can understand better: you said on your thread “Drowning” that your mother used to drown you while you were a small child (“As opposed to pleading for it to stop and being afraid of dying as a small child.”) Does that mean that the abuse started when you were little and continued all the way till you were in your teens, only then it involved sexual abuse too?

Dear Katrine,

I asked not to work nights because it’s bad for me and my Cptsd and fortunatly i don’t have to do them any more.

I am glad that you’re spared from working in a potentially dangerous environment! It’s good that the management has understanding for your concerns.

Yeah he’s known for it. Prepandemic though he was friends with the top manager and so never had any consecvenses I really hope that this is taken seriously this time. They work so hard in that kitchen but they also need a good work environment. He can’t treat people this way.

What’s his position btw? Some kind of manager? That’s totally unacceptable that he’s been harassing people without any consequences or disciplinary action. I guess everybody was afraid of the big boss and afraid to file a complaint? But now, someone finally filed a complaint against him?

Got back after midnight after picking up my parents and he was sitting next to her do it looks like they made up again. She was sad all of last week and people were hugging her because he was foling around behind her back.

Oh so they’re back together? And he’s been fooling around behind her back… well, Katrine, I am glad after all that he’s not your boyfriend. He is still playing games, like sitting next to you but not saying anything, or looking at you but not saying anything…. and at the same time he has a girlfriend but is also flirting with other girls… I don’t like it at all.

He knew for some months that i was hurt by this, he didn’t think it is okay for him to ignore and act weird around me. He is the best he is like the guy i was with, you just know your in good hands, and I have been starting to see him as more than friends.

From what you shared about the chef, I like him. He really seems like a decent guy, also someone who is emotionally stable because he can tolerate you having a crush on someone else and accepting it and waiting patiently. It’s good news that you started to see him as more than a friend! He sounds promising! 🙂

I really want to start therapy and asking around is a great idea, I really want to feel better.

I wish you to find someone suitable and affordable too!

Ola SereneWolf 🙂

Haha yeah French is not that much similar or say least similar in romance languages, also tongue twisting a lot. But Spanish, Italian and Portuguese are very similar to each other.

Oh I see, I thought you said French, Spanish and Italian, but you actually said Spanish, Italian and Portuguese are similar… okay, noted 🙂

Well even in the big cities I prefer outside areas not center areas just for near to wild and some more peaceful and farther from city noise.

Sure, it’s always better to be in or close to a green area…

And yes I do spend time with him but less since he’s spending more time indoors.

How come? Is he ill or the family just changed their habits?

Hmm they never had to tell me to “behave” because I was very observant. And grandfather used to talk about other kids of my age how much they have “accomplished” and well behaved they are. So without much thought I was like okay as a kid this age I have to be well behaved and not do many silly things like other kids doing who aren’t much “accomplished”

Right, so it seems you got the message that spontaneity, silliness, or rather playfulness (which are the qualities of the inner child) are not good qualities if you want to achieve something in life? And so you did your best to behave yourself, to hide that playful side of yours in front of other people.

Perhaps that’s why you’re struggling to show that side of yours to your partner, fearing that you would be judged? Because your parents and grandparents judged it too?

Hmm I think my freedom and ability to do whatever I want. … Also ability to go wherever I go. It’s like a parent would be like don’t go to hike there it’s dangerous out there and then even after she said no and I’d go I feel guilty.

This is what I am reading from your words: that what you cherish the most is your freedom and ability to do whatever you want, without feeling guilty.

It seems you’re very sensitive to your partner’s moods and are worried if she is worried, to the point of not being able to sleep:

Because like in relationship I care too much and even if they’re little careless about their health or things that affect them or make them worry it makes me worry 3x times more and I can’t focus on my things.

After that I noticed that in relationships I just loose myself in the process because over caring and overthinking about partner. And it affects my mood and even the sleep so…

If I even notice even a little that what I suggested made them uncomfortable I wouldn’t hesitate to change my plans just to see them not disappointed.

What you’ve described is similar to being co-dependent: your mood depends on your partner’s mood, and if she is unhappy, you have the need to make her happy. And you can’t be happy if she’s not happy. You can’t separate your own mood and happiness from that of your partner.

Also, you don’t want to cause any frustration to your partner, so you’d rather cancel your plans than to see them disappointed. You’d rather adjust to your partner than see them displeased with you. However, you don’t want to adjust and stop doing what you love doing, since you’re a freedom-loving guy. So you’d rather not have any relationship at all than have to sacrifice the things you love for another person.

The truth is that you don’t really have to sacrifice the things you love – it is only your belief that you do. The problem you have (if I am seeing this correctly) is that you can’t stand your partner’s frustration. It’s too painful for you and you feel guilty. So rather than try to assert yourself or negotiate, you run away from the relationship entirely. It’s easier for you to live without a constant feeling of guilt.

Am I seeing this right?

Dear Helcat,

You’re welcome and thank you for your kind words!

I find objective third party opinions very helpful, I often ask friends how they perceive situations.

It’s great that you’re open to feedback and ask trusted people for their view on the matter. That’s a very useful practice!

Your explanation makes sense. I can see now that Anita was sharing an overview of her thought process. That makes it less painful.

I am glad it helped you a little. Yes, I believe anita wanted to be transparent and so she over-shared, unwittingly.

So I’ve spent quite a lot of time studying your and anita’s interaction, and have noticed some patterns. I just want to say that what I am about to share, I am sharing in good faith. My intention is not to judge either you or anita, or take sides, but to give you my impression as an outside observer, and hopefully help in some way.

So what I’ve noticed is that there were plenty of interactions where both you and anita saw things clearly and responded from your true self. That’s when you got along well and had good and mutually respectful conversations.

But there were also situations in which either one of your or both of you reacted from a wound (and misinterpreted things, or overreacted), which then caused conflict.

Let me give you a few examples of what I mean.

An example of the situation where you saw things more clearly and anita refused to see it is when you warned her about treating some members harshly, e.g. when she addressed one member with the label “incel”, or when she accused another member for creating multiple accounts and lying. She strongly refused that she was disrespectful to anyone (“you keep repeating that I disrespect OPs when this is not the case“), and instead accused you of having a personal vendetta against her.

An example of the situation where anita had a good intention and you were too sensitive is when you believed that she was questioning the validity of your childhood trauma. The way she phrased her post was triggering for you, and you wouldn’t accept her explanation of why she didn’t mean anything bad.

An example of the situation where both of you were too sensitive and overreactive is when you thought that anita was talking about you on the thread School Bullying, when she wasn’t. You interrupted her conversation with another member, and asked her to stop referring to you and the disagreement she had with you. I’ve checked her post and she really wasn’t referring to you, but was talking about her mother’s bullying. I am pretty sure you’ve misread it.

But then anita – reacting from her own wound – escalated the conflict and accused you of cyberbullying and stalking. Which were definitely inappropriate accusations.

I think another example of such a situation, where both of you had an unbalanced reaction, was your first conflict, which happened in May, on the thread Attacked.

Anita was sharing about her progress with her mental health, but then you pressured her to admit that her anxiety is still high, and told her that her bar for happiness seems low. That wasn’t very kind… You later explained what you meant and that you wanted to encourage her to rise above her limitations. But even if so, that post of yours wasn’t very supportive.

Anita’s reaction to that post was severe. She stopped addressing you directly and instead addressed the rest of the community, show-casing you as an example of “how not to communicate”. Her tone was pretty condescending and belittling. In my opinion, that post was quite hurtful.

A few days later anita apologized for that, saying: “Dear Helcat: I apologize for expressing anger at you harshly and indirectly. I felt too hurt and too threatened to (1) be aware of my feelings,  and (2) to express my feelings clearly and directly.”

Following her apology, you apologized to her too for unwittingly causing her pain. You also explained where you were coming from when you “pressured” her about her anxiety. You two smoothed out the conflict (on May 18) and ended the exchange on a positive note.

This mutual apology is an example of both of you acting in good faith, with empathy and understanding for each other.

So this is the dynamic, i.e. the four types of interactions that I’ve noticed between you and anita. I’d love to hear your feedback and if you think there’s some truth in it.

A lot more could be said, but I wouldn’t want to push my opinion. If you found this helpful, I’d be happy to go into more detail.

Dear SereneWolf,

How are you doing?

I am having another not so good period health-wise, so I am not too cheerful. But holding on, keeping hope that it’s going to get better eventually…

Well romance languages are kind of similar to one another, So not so hard and it’s just fun watching old vintage French and Italian movies on weekends so…

True, I was told that Spanish and Italian are sort of similar. Don’t know about French – everyone says it’s pretty hard….

Yes. I get bored pretty quickly. If there aren’t enough things that interest me

For a guy who watched a lioness give birth… no wonder that cities are boring 😀

Okay so I’ll note this and try to work on that. Thanks! In some situations like when my anger gets triggered I do notice that directly, be mindful about it and then ask questions and calm it down after some slow breaths

You’re welcome! Great you’re already practicing mindfulness when you notice you’re getting angry…

Hmm I think I can trust these affirmations if I reach to this step after being mindful about this specific trigger

Great! So at least intellectually you know you’re free to make your own decisions and no one is forcing you to tie the knot.

Yes that’s what I’m working on.. You think act as a father figure to my cat counts?

Haha… I don’t even think it’s possible with cats – they are great individualists and pretty sneaky 🙂 But you can be a father figure to that boy from the neighborhood, whom you were teaching how to ride a bike.

And It should be without judgements. Like I know I’m in touch with my inner child and I still do lot of things that an adult actually doesn’t do like I turned into a kid when I’m with kids, Different kind of bicycling, Singing and dancing for no reason (Lot of times while cooking, Watching Anime and Cartoons and lot of things like that) And I kind of fear they would judge me for that and not actually understand

I get it… that’s great that you’re in touch with your inner child! When you were a child, did you feel judged by your parents for being spontaneous and a little silly? Did they often tell you to “behave”?

I don’t like being even partially “dependent” on someone or affected by them. It could be because I like to control (It’s lot better than before but still) but not being controlled. Because I prefer some things should be my way.

Can you give me an example? What in your life should be your way and you wouldn’t agree to any kind of compromise?

Thanks a lot!

You’re very welcome, SereneWolf!