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  • Tee
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    Dear Paradoxy,

    My mom was infuriated by me “not caring” and started lecturing me that I should be more caring and stuff and how she always cared about me whenever I looked upset. BULLSHIT. Forgive my language but she probably asked once or twice or thrice at most, and that too after I started Med. Nobody cared during all those years that I suffered. Nobody noticed the pain I was going through when I found out about my ex cheating on me, and now she tries to say she always noticed whenever I was unhappy and that she cared about how I felt?

    So your mother is gaslighting you too: telling you that she would always ask how you are and would notice if something is troubling you. Whereas you know it’s not true, and besides, if you were honest with her (or your father), they would use it against you and start criticizing you:

    if I open my mouth once, they will force me to open up about my issues and then go right back to criticizing me and etc.

    I know about that, btw, because my own mother used to do that: if I would complain about something, being emotionally vulnerable with her, she would use it against me and start blaming and criticizing me. So after a while I learned to never share my troubles with her, because there will be a backlash. I never felt I could confide in her.

    So anyway, your mother was never too caring or empathic, quite the contrary, but now she is claiming that she was. Which is gaslighting. And she is blaming you for not showing more compassion for your father, when you know how that went in the past:

    me caring for him might actually end up biting me back in the form of more criticism or something.

    When you interact with your parents, you are in a self-protective mode, because whenever you open up, it might cause trouble and you might get blamed. You behave like that because you are forced to: years of experience with them have taught you to express your troubles only minimally, or else you’ll get in an even bigger trouble. Also, your father taught you that when you have an issue, to suck it up and be a man. So he wasn’t really welcoming vulnerability. On the contrary.

    And so now, when he is supposedly weak, you are expected to show care and concern? When you were punished, or perhaps even ridiculed, for expressing care and concern in the past.

    So yeah… this is how our parents shape us: first they condition us to live in a self-protective mode, not daring to express our true self. And when that self-protective persona proves to be faulty and inadequate, they blame us for it.

    I am sorry for the way I am…..

    You were shaped to be that way… by your parents’ conditioning. I hope you can start seeing that?

     

    in reply to: Selfish husband #433087
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Lily Margarette,

    a correction in this paragraph:

    But also, you can put your foot down and demand that he be there for certain occasions, when you absolutely want him there, or when it would be very impractical to organize child care etc. Such might be e.g. your daughter’s religious presentation, or the weekend when you need to work and you don’t have anybody to take care of the kids.

    in reply to: Selfish husband #433086
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Lily Margarette,

    I am sorry that you are still suffering and feeling trapped in your situation. However, I am happy to hear that you did find a job:

    He now wants the weekend after…when I’m working and I need him to look after the kids.

    Because the last time you wrote, you felt terrified of going out to work again, after having been a stay-at-home mom for more than 10 years. So congratulations on that! Is it a part-time or a full-time job? How are you satisfied with it?

    Unfortunately, it seems your husband does have narcissistic tendencies, and such people have very little chance of changing. The fact that therapy didn’t help at all proves it:

    He recently went to therapy on his own, and he’s been ten times worse. It’s like his ego has inflated.

    So therapy only strengthened his ego. That’s what happens a lot when a narcissist – who is typically charming and very convincing – goes to an inexperienced therapist. The therapist gets charmed away too! And they tend to believe the narcissist, i.e. the abuser, not the victim.

    How do I handle this? Please don’t suggest couples therapy

    Yeah, definitely couple’s therapy wouldn’t make sense, first because he might equally charm away the therapist. And secondly, if he believes there is no problem with him but tends to blame you (or the children) – then therapy makes no sense, because he doesn’t want to change, neither does he see the need to change.

    I think the only long-term solution, unfortunately, would be to separate from him. But I know that with 3 underage children, it might seem overwhelming.

    But you don’t need to do it all at once. You might even wait till your children are older, while in the meanwhile you are slowly preparing to stand on your own two feet again. It seems you already made the first step: you found a job. So you have broken through that barrier that you felt 2 years ago. Which is amazing!

    How is your self-confidence at this point? Do you think you would be able to separate from your husband and organize a separate life from him, or it still seems very scary?

    In terms of day-to-day life, try not to expect too much from him. For example, don’t count that he’d be there for all of the school appointments. With his character, there is a high chance that he “forgets” or double books things or just follows his own needs and wants, without considering you and the children. So, try to accept (temporarily, of course) that this is his character and don’t expect too much from him. Don’t be disappointed if he lets you down.

    But also, you can put your foot down and demand that he be there for certain occasions, when you absolutely want him there, or when it would be very impractical to organize child care etc. or example. Such might be e.g. your daughter’s religious presentation, or the weekend when you need to work and you don’t have anybody to take care of the kids.

    He might throw temper tantrums and blame you for ruining his outing with his buddies, but you can remain cool about it, because you know it’s not your fault and that him being there on those occasions is an absolute must. So have him do what he promised, even if he is fuming about it and “hates” you for it.

    So try to be less emotional and more pragmatical about it: let go if it’s not a big deal, and insist that he keeps his promise if it is a big deal and him bailing out would cause problems. Have those boundaries clear in your mind: what you can and what you absolutely don’t want to tolerate. And play according to those rules (your own rules).

    I know it hurts to have a husband like that, and to have to treat him like an unruly child. But if you accept that this is who he is and stop hoping for something different, then perhaps you can proceed to really separate from him, slowly but surely. Methodically. Strategically. By looking for the best exit strategy – for you and your children.

    What do you think?

     

    in reply to: Feels like Time is passing too fast #433085
    Tee
    Participant

    Hi SereneWolf,

    just a quick, though provocative question (sorry about that) for now. I’ll reply to the rest of your post later:

    There was physical and even some romantic attraction but I didn’t continue with her because of my fear. Like if something good like this would end, I’d feel so much hurt so I didn’t let her too close to my heart

    What if during my journey I meet someone who is really able to touch my heart and able to break down the walls in my heart?

    So the doctor didn’t touch your heart? Or she did, but she wasn’t able to break down the walls in your heart?

    You see – it’s not about the woman. It’s about you. If you fear (either intimacy, or losing something good and hurting afterwards), then you will keep those walls up, even if it’s the best thing that ever happened to you.

    If fear prevails, no woman will be able to break down the walls of your heart. The person who needs to do it is you.

     

    in reply to: Feels like Time is passing too fast #433062
    Tee
    Participant

    Hey SereneWolf,

    Although sometimes I think I should start taking caffeine for a better focus at during worktime. In the morning time I always look so sleepy no matter how many hours I have slept.

    If you want a wake-up effect, then I guess Latte would be a poor choice, at least for me it is, because all that milk puts me to sleep rather than waking me up 🙂 That’s why I said, Latte is comfort food for me 😀

    Yes I agree with you.. and it’s same like my father, my father thought even words of encouragement spoils the kids. Then hugs and kisses are far away lol

    Yeah, same with my mother. No words of encouragement, no praise – that too spoils the kid. It was a kind of a Spartan upbringing…

    And to be honest it’s quite common here not just for my father. But it’s surprising for me I though mother figures are mostly affectionate but I guess not in your case.

    Well, she didn’t have an affectionate mother herself, so she didn’t really experience love and affection. But the saddest part is that she thought highly of her mother and never allowed any criticism of her. Even though her mother was a very critical, strict and cold parent.

    My mother even blamed herself for not being a good enough daughter… so there was never even a glimmer of awareness about how bad effect her mother had on her. And unfortunately, due to that lack of awareness, she never worked on her own healing and only transferred her trauma on to me (which is how generational trauma happens).

    it’s changing though (almost like since covid I think) My father would at least put his hand on my forehand when I’m working on my laptop and when I ask what he’s doing that for he’s like..To check if you got a headache or not haha

    Hahaha… that’s quite a unique way to express affection. I thought he was checking whether you have fever or not 🙂 But if you feel he wants to be closer to you nowadays, but only knows how to do it in clumsy ways, well, that counts too 🙂

    I’m glad you got touching type husband. You believe in 4 love languages? Because sounds like your husband’s love language is physical touch

    Yeah, could be. I think Acts of service and Quality time is also what’s important to him, actually to both of us. And Words of affirmation too. Neither of us is big on gifts though, or going out to dinners and special occasions. So we more or less speak 4 love languages, and the 5th isn’t important to either of us 🙂

    Yes he does appreciate me. He trust me at that level that he put his power attorney on my name. and he told me that during my lifetime I have never seen honest and humble person like you. And he did a love marriage and my aunt is also very wise lady. So he told me He’s only vulnerable with two person. One with his wife and one me. I think he’s also one of the reason I got entrepreneurial spirit.

    Oh my! Your real uncle is your Uncle Iroh then!! That’s amazing! To have such a loving and caring elder – someone who appreciates you so much and trusts you – that’s such a blessing.

    You should learn from him about relationships! Because you said he married out of love, to a good, smart woman. Which means it is possible, SereneWolf. He is your proof.

    I just listen. I don’t try to give her solutions and when she works late after that she drinks a lot and then get all “horny drunk” then I try that she could sleep on time so she can have proper rest.

    Naah I don’t think she speak up to her bosses. Because she would be texting me even while working. And watching Instagram reels while working. And she has quite a bad relationship with her parents she speaks to them only when needed.

    Oh, so she’s not only smoking, but also tends to drink a lot. She has anger issues but it seems she uses alcohol to “soothe” her pain. And she likes to vent a lot and fume, but it’s only like letting out a bit of steam from a pressure cooker – she is not really working on healing her issues.

     I try that she could sleep on time so she can have proper rest.

    This is similar to what you were doing in your LDR – caring about the girl’s health and that she is getting proper rest, is eating well etc. So this is the same kind of “savior” behavior with this girl too. And this girl is trouble, similar to your first LDR.

    So beware of that – that you might get sucked into another savior kind of relationship, where you want to “parent” a troubled girl, who doesn’t really want to go to therapy and work on her issues. Perhaps now you would be a more compassionate and understanding parent, because you’ve worked on yourself, but nevertheless still in a parental role. And that’s not a good recipe for a relationship.

    But it’s been like 5 days I haven’t even texted and neither did she

    That’s good! It seems you are attracted to problematic girls, whom you want to help improve, and that’s a part of the excitement you feel about her. So be aware of that…

    Hmm tbh I don’t think that was the reason. And when I’m with her I did feel that she is someone that is capable of accepting the whole me. I’m saying because the way she was talking to me and also many times she reassured me that I can have bad feelings and I can allow myself to be sad and angry in front of her. And I used to vent about things with her.

    Okay, so she was able to accept you as you are, with all your good and bad sides. You didn’t need to pretend with her. And you could vent to her, and she would listen. It didn’t overwhelm her. But you see – you didn’t feel that “tension” and excitement with her that you feel now with this latest girl. And it could be because she didn’t need fixing. You even felt a little inferior to her (I remember you mentioned that).

    So perhaps she was intimidating because you felt not good enough for her? And this one – the problematic girl – doesn’t feel intimidating because you feel better than her? And so you feel safe?

    No judgment here – I am just asking those questions, so you could get to the bottom of the problem. Because I am seeing the same pattern as before, and perhaps now is the time to become aware of the pattern and try to break it (or rather, heal it).

    Right. Totally platonic. And I did noticed that my female friends are good listeners than my male friends and kinda more empathic. So I tend to be more vulnerable with my female friends

    It seems that caring, empathic girls don’t really attract you in the romantic sense – but you only stay friends with them. And then they find a guy and move on. And you are left alone. It seems like self-sabotage. A good girl, capable of emotional intimacy, isn’t attractive to you romantically. Because you are afraid of that deep vulnerability, which comes with a romantic relationship. So yeah, it all seems to be a part of the same pattern.

    I’m thinking short term situationships would make me feel lighter and still have that sense of closeness with someone? Like Friend+Lover you know?

    Think about it in the light of what I’ve said above. You want some closeness, but not real closeness. You want to stay on the surface. Because when you fall in love, you fall in love with problematic people, which drain you (like this latest girl has the potential to drain you). And of course, you don’t want such a relationship.

    But the biggest problem is that you are afraid to fall in love with healthy people. With whom you could experience a healthy, fulfilling relationship.

    and it’s also good because now I’m also capable of travelling so I’ll be changing the places frequently. … If I’d be just dating a local woman from the city that I’m staying. It’s also good for activities and time spending outside the work. So spending good time together and some sweet memories and then say see ya senorita on the next adventure…

    Yeah, you want to be like a sailor, having a different woman in each port 😉 But you know it’s not the solution, SereneWolf. It’s an escape. So think about it. Your own uncle managed to have a loving, committed relationship. And he knows what love is. So… give it a thought….

     

    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    the guy is a pain: he refuses to take responsibility for losing the money cause “trading is a very risky investment and it has ups and downs which we cannot control”

    That’s true, but you said you lost money because the guy wasn’t really doing his job but went partying (the guy we hired chose to party instead of focusing on the trading). So that doesn’t belong to the normal risk of trading. How do you even know he was partying instead of watching what’s going on on the markets?

    then we just stopped working with him and started saving again to try out other trading groups.

    Has that brought any success? Have you earned anything?

    Oh trust me when I say this, my father’s beliefs do not control me, they have just made me aware and more cautious. They ended up being right about B and so I will respect their beliefs,

    That’s actually the paradox: in spite of all his warnings and (I’d still say) indoctrination about women, you still managed to fall for the kind of girl he was warning you about. So that’s something to consider. So either you need more education and basically following your father’s instructions about whom to marry (light skinned girl, preferably from your religious/ethnic community). Or you need something else?

    Thank you. I will come back to this whenever I feel like someone is gaslighting me. I will learn from my mistake.

    You are welcome. I would consider that each time you complain about something, and your father says to suck it up and be a man, that’s gaslighting too. Because he is invalidating your feelings and your reality.

     

    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    It doesn’t affect my decision to never return to her.

    That’s good to hear.

    Ok fine, I can’t argue with that. She never actively expressed it directly to me so it never came across to me.

    Glad there is at least one thing you cannot argue with 😉 Yes, she expressed her disapproval indirectly, by acting in a passive aggressive way.

    So I have decided to sell the laptop to her and she has started paying me back in installments.

    That’s another thing I am glad to hear.

    We entered the investment knowing the risks, so she didn’t force me into it. I needed a passive source of income because I can’t work when I have to handle the workload from med.

    She didn’t force you into it, but you went for it because of her: because you used up all your savings to pay for her upkeep. So you needed the extra money. And she convinced you to try trading.

    And yes she convinced me to invest in trading, and it partially worked. We made a profit of 600 dollars with the initial investment, but the guy we hired chose to party instead of focusing on the trading and so he lost all the money and we went right back to square one.

    So it wasn’t a professional broker, but some guy she found? And he didn’t bear any responsibility for losing your money?

    I definitely am not under the belief that women are dumb and need to be educated. Maybe a little dramatic and a pain in my bottom rn but not dumb.

    Don’t underestimate the influence your father had on you and forming your beliefs. What he put you through was indoctrination, and it left its traces (just think of being forced to sit with the adults at 5 years old, listening to their “wisdom”,  instead of being allowed to play).

    I just thought B was dumb cause of the lack of guidance she had received as well as how her decisions lacked common sense

    Her decisions lacked common sense, but as I said before, many decisions, both destructive and self-destructive, don’t make sense. They are very bad decisions. And yet people do them, unfortunately.

    But I understand your point. Thank you for your patience and understanding.

    You are welcome. Yesterday I came across an article about gaslighting, and was amazed to see that it describes almost to the tee the tactics used by B:

    Denial – The abuser denies events or experiences that the victim knows to be true, causing the victim to doubt their memory or perception.

    Minimization – The abuser downplays the significance of the victim’s feelings or experiences, making them feel like their emotions are unwarranted or invalid.

    Projection – The abuser attributes their behaviors or feelings to the victim, making the victim question their intentions or actions.

    Blame shifting – The abuser puts the blame on the victim for the problems in the relationship or other circumstances, making the victim feel responsible for the abuser’s actions.

    Withholding – The abuser withholds information, affection, or communication, leaving the victim feeling confused and anxious.

    Diverting – The abuser changes the subject or distracts the victim from important issues or concerns, making it challenging to address the real problems.

    False allegations – starting gossip about the victim in an effort to reduce their social credibility.

    I think she used all of the above, except maybe diverting, although not sure about that.

    Anyway, all these are apparently gaslighting tactics, and she used them regularly on you. No wonder you were super confused whether you should forgive her. Because she was constantly denying your reality, telling you that what she is doing is not hurtful, invalidating your feelings, telling you you are overreacting. Plus shifting the blame on you, falsely accusing you, even making false allegations about you to her female friend. And of course, withholding key information from you.

    All in all, very abusive. I hope you can learn from this and heal.

     

    in reply to: Feels like Time is passing too fast #432865
    Tee
    Participant

    Hi SereneWolf,

    Como stai?

    Io sto bene, grazie 🙂

    (I only knew the 2 last words. For the rest I asked Google Translate 🙂 )

    after that he came to balcony and be like yeah you’re doing well. I was like if you give me few minutes to learn something obviously I’m going to do it well. So he got angry again because I talked back. But I didn’t care. And tbh I felt so alive and proud of myself! It happened yesterday evening but I’m still feeling so good about it.

    Yay, you did great! Congratulations! I love what you told him: “if you give me few minutes to learn something obviously I’m going to do it well.”

    You nailed it! You pinpointed the main problem: his too high expectations and immediate criticism, instead of allowing you the time to learn things (and having patience and empathy with you). And he was like that since your childhood. No room for mistakes and a demand for perfection, or else he was quick to get angry.

    And I loved that you were so self-confident with him: telling him that you are obviously going to do it well. Yes! That’s the spirit! You didn’t feel less then, or not good enough, but you confidently told him that yes, you can do it, you are able to, you just need a little bit of time to get the hang of it. Perfect!

    my mother came to me and she was like you know him why you wanted a fight? So I also told her,. Even about the therapy. Like do you have any idea what this kind of events in my life and suppressed anger is doing to me? If you want you can tell him, He won’t be able to control me like he did in my childhood.

    So your mother behaved the same way as she did in your childhood: trying to pacify you, so you wouldn’t provoke him. She wanted you to walk on eggshells around him, so he wouldn’t explode in anger. Basically, she was appeasing the bully (and trying to control you, his victim).

    It’s good that you told her how her silencing you and making you suppress your anger had negative consequences on your life and mental health. And that he won’t be able to control you like that anymore. But I guess you indirectly told her as well that she won’t be able to control you any more either, right? You told her off too – you told her you won’t fall for her pleas to suppress your own voice. You told her you won’t stay silent, but will stand up for yourself. Which is amazing!

    So once again, congratulations! It was 2-in-1 action: you dealt with both parents in one swift move. 🙂

    How are you feeling today? Still good or there are some doubts or feeling of guilt, or anything like that?

    Yes I actively need to work replacing critical voice with positive and supportive one.

    It seems the inner protector – the inner Uncle Iroh – has activated himself in this latest encounter with your parents. Do you still feel the presence of this positive inner voice?

    Well I think I’ve felt the most powerful just recently like I told you. Because of that I felt like yeah I have my own voice and power why am I keep letting them control me?

    Yes, you do have your own voice, which can speak for you and defend you from attacks. I think it’s wonderful that you experienced that you are actually able to defend yourself and stand up for yourself. And this gave you a sense of power. Because if you can stand up for yourself, you are powerful. If you can say No to abuse, you are powerful.

    Simply knowing that we have the ability to protect ourselves (from other people’s abuse, unreasonable demands, unfair expectations etc) gives us enormous inner power.

    And another time when I finally got a fully remote job in sustainability!

    Yess! That was a great success – your dream come true, and something you have been longing for a long time. And you made it! So yes, that too proved how powerful you are: because you can achieve your goals and dreams.

    Hmm What else? Can I also count when I learned to Bicycling and Driving? Because my family thought I’m slow and scared of it, so I wouldn’t learn that

    Sure, that one counts too. You achieved something your family thought you wouldn’t be able to. Achievement – and especially achievement in spite of obstacles – gives us a sense of power!

    I mean I already tried, I also know the particular situation (the one I just mentioned) I think that situation from my childhood is the most memorable one

    Okay, it could be that some “rewriting” of your childhood experiences happened in this very encounter with your parents. Because in this encounter, you’ve got the experience of standing up for yourself and speaking your truth, and not allowing to be silenced and guilt-tripped into obedience. If you still feel good about it, without doubt or guilt creeping in, then some “rewriting” has happened for sure.

    But the feeling the truth by I mean like I’m right and I shouldn’t feel like only elder family members tell me is the truth. Like I literally feel like I need to build my own voice persona from scratch.

    Is there a part of you which still expects validation from your parents (and grandparents) that you are making good choices? Like, you know that you are right, but a part of you is still doubting it?

    Because the thing is even the positive voices are coming externally. Not from within, Like how some of my friends praise me, how my co-workers praise me for my work, the women I’ve been with tells me how kind, passionate and caring I am.

    Do you feel that you still don’t believe positive things about yourself? That even though you receive praise from other people, you still have a hard time believing it?

    Perhaps now 2 voices are vying for dominance in your psyche: one is your newly found confident voice with which you just spoke to your parents. And the other is the “good old” (actually bad old) inner critic, caused by years of criticism and telling you you’re not good enough?

    Like I don’t feel like I actually need external validation, I’m not longing for those voices. But it’s just there. You know what I mean?

    You mean you are not longing for external validation? But you also feel that your inner “validator” is not strong enough?

    I need to connect with myself on deeper level.

    What exactly do you feel you are missing right now?

    But you can feel free to tell me how can I “rewrite” from your perspective.

    I just meant the exercise with the inner child, where the client imagined an event from her childhood and then “rewrote” the script (she stood between her inner child and her stepfather, and protected her inner child from her stepfather, and then reassured her inner child that she is safe and loved and protected). But if you feel you did some of that in the latest interaction with your parents, that can work too.

     

    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    I won’t be able to try to convince you

    Haha, this sounds like a Freudian slip on my part 🙂 Yeah, I won’t be able to convince you, probably.

    I meant to say: I won’t be trying to convince you anymore. I hope I can stick to my own word 🙂

    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    I needed to take a break from this thread and trying to convince you of things (about B) that are so obvious to me, and I believe to any outside observer, but not to you unfortunately.

    It saddens me that after more than 150 posts that we’ve exchanged, and you knowing that she was lying to you, hiding important things from you, and falsely accusing you – you still choose to trust her word. You still believe her interpretations of events and her excuses:

    The issue with her ex was just a coincidence according to her, cause it was supposed to be the female housemate who was supposed to remove her braids.

    She only prostituted herself one time, and she claims to have had no choice because her aunt had set up the whole ordeal.

    She did go to pool parties but that was before we started dating and she didn’t dance sexually in front of men in that manner,

    B said that there was no party the previous night, and she said that she went to the pool by herself before everyone woke up but she didn’t know her friend had also woken up.

    So that’s one problem that I see: you believe a liar and a manipulator on her word.

    Another problem is that you are deluding herself about some aspects of her character, e.g. that she didn’t mind being told what to do:

    B was fine with doing as she was told (idk if she held any hatred in her hurt but she never expressed any hate towards me for being “controlling”). B usually asks me about my opinion before making decisions but Ig sometimes she just never took my advice to heart.

    B didn’t call me a control freak or anything similar to that though. I was referring to other women that I have come across who told me about how their boyfriends are control freaks for not letting them party and etc.

    She might have not told you in so many words that you are a control freak, but she did tell you in her letter that she felt crucified by your expectations:

    Because I was your first relationship, you had expectations, and when those weren’t met, I was crucified but made excuses for it at the same time.

    If she felt crucified, it means she felt harshly judged and condemned for her actions. And this means she wasn’t fine at all with doing what you told her to do, i.e. with your expectations and limitations. On the contrary, she felt crucified by them.

    I am not saying that her feeling like a victim was justified. But what is for sure is that she did object to your guidance, even if she didn’t express it directly. But she expressed it indirectly: by not following your guidance, by “forgetting” what you told her, by “not thinking”.

    So she was passive aggressive about it: she felt controlled by you, but instead of telling you that directly, she simply ignored your wishes. And then she pretended that it happened by accident, that she wasn’t thinking etc.

    But of course, it wasn’t by chance – it was because she didn’t want to do as you told her. She didn’t want to be restricted by your expectations. That’s why it happened that “sometimes she just never took my advice to heart.”

    Yes, she didn’t take your advice – not because she was absent minded and oblivious, but because she didn’t want to take your advice. In her letter she made it clear that she found your guidance and your expectations limiting and crucifying.

    So this is how you are deluding yourself that she wanted to change for you, but somehow didn’t end up succeeding. The truth is that she didn’t want to change, but pretended she wanted to – because that’s how she could stay in the relationship (and be financially supported by you).

    To put it simply, she played dumb with you – she pretended she keeps forgetting how to dress and behave around men, and that she didn’t mean it, and that living with her ex doesn’t mean anything, etc etc. One excuse after the other. And you fell for it, because unfortunately, you don’t have a problem believing that women are dumb.

    And I can tell you that she is not dumb at all. Her letter proves it. She is quite intelligent and manipulative. Indeed, like a snake (the word you used to describe her at one point).

    But it seems you’ve changed your mind about her being like a snake. Now she is again a simple dumb girl, who was too dumb to learn to behave properly. And that she would need more education:

    Based on all the time that I spent with her, I think she just lacked good parenting where her parents didn’t advice her well enough.

    It seems that for you, that’s an easier qualification to stomach: that she is dumb, not manipulative. And indeed, you are very set on believing it (expressing it in your last post too):

    That is precisely how dumb she is.

    That is why I said she can be very stupid sometimes.

    She is just a very stupid hypocrite. I have to literally spell things like this out for her in order for her to understand.

    I have an idea why believing that she is dumb rather than manipulative is an easier explanation for you. But unfortunately, it’s not helpful to keep believing it, because you won’t be able to recognize abuse and manipulation in your next relationship. And you will enter the next relationship with the same false belief that women are dumb and need to be educated – which won’t lead to happiness either.

    Anyway, I won’t be able to try to convince you of anything anymore. Maybe some day you will change your mind and start to see things differently. Which I sincerely hope, for your own good.

     

    in reply to: Feels like Time is passing too fast #432762
    Tee
    Participant

    Hi SereneWolf,

    Very similar to what I like in weekends. Except caffeine.

    Yeah, I am still a fan of caffeine, only “diluted”, with plenty of milk. Latte is almost like comfort food for me, so yeah, there is an attachment there, which so far I don’t want to break free from 🙂

    Lack of physical affection is even worse than the emotional neglect. Because it has that feeling of safety. Like I got you, don’t worry.

    Yes, physical affection is very important when we’re babies, because that’s the only language we understand. And if we are caressed and played with, and soothed and held when we’re upset, that means so much for our nervous system and our basic sense of safety. And also, the basic sense of feeling loved, because physical touch means affection.

    My mother didn’t like physical affection because I think it didn’t come naturally to her – because she herself felt so deprived of love and affection (due to her own childhood). So she couldn’t give what she didn’t possess… But then she rationalized it by saying that giving hugs and kisses will spoil the child, or that it’s fake, that the person giving hugs and kisses isn’t sincere and doesn’t truly love us. So she rationalized her own coldness and emotional detachment, instead of admitting that there is something missing in her…

    My mother used to caress my head sometimes and my grandma as well. But I’m quite sure no physical touch from my father. Only aggression.

    I have a photo with my father in his lap, when I was maybe 1 or 2 years old, where he is looking at me with great love and affection. But he wasn’t really a hugging type, and we didn’t have much emotional closeness later as I grew up. But he was never aggressive. He just didn’t protect me from my mother’s aggression, so that’s his major “crime” against me.

    But because of that you think it kinda turn us into not touchy people?

    Actually yes, I myself used to be rather restrained in expressing physical affection. I think one of the main reasons was that I felt empty inside, I felt like I have nothing to give. But that was before setting on my healing journey. Now I am more free, but still not super touchy-feely.

    Luckily, my husband is the touching type. He likes to give me hugs and back rubs, and I enjoy it like a baby 🙂 He definitely made up for what I was missing as a child, both in terms of physical and emotional affection. So that’s been a huge blessing in my life.

    Like even now I feel awkward when someone tries to hug me. Yet I do get little emotional. One of my uncle is really extrovert and I have a good relationship with him and the thing is that he always hugs me. Literally like half minute hug. Not a quick one. And that guy has a germophobia. We meet rarely but whenever we do. We talk a lot.

    Aw that’s wonderful! Your uncle must really like you and appreciate you a lot. I hope you can take it in and allow your heart to open up, to receive his love. Because he seems genuine in his expression of love, and you said you don’t like people who are kind in a fake way, because they usually want something from you.

    But it seems your uncle is an example of someone who genuinely cares about you, so perhaps next time he gives you a hug, try to really receive his love and open your heart? (if you haven’t already)

    Hmm We talk just about similar things. She complins about work. We both are into cats so we talk about cats a lot too. Other than that just flirting here and there.

    When she complains about work, what do you do?

    Ohh I haven’t looked from that POV. But I don’t think so, I don’t want to mimic something like that. Specially not getting angry over small things. Because it takes a lot to make me angry. I already have a calm image even for myself.

    Okay, so she is someone who gets angry over small things? And she freely expresses that anger? While you get angry only over big things? But even then, you suppress your anger and you don’t say anything to the person who is mistreating you or otherwise doing something you find unacceptable. This is what you said about the incident when your nephew and other kindergarten kids went to the doctor:

    I got so much angry but I didn’t want to disrespect a woman inside a hospital there so I controlled myself and stayed calm.

    I don’t raise my voice lot of times when I should, and then get angry after that.

    You already know how much of my anger is just buried.

    It’s okay that you didn’t make a scene there and exploded in uncontrolled anger. However, you also say you don’t raise your voice when you should, and then you get angry afterwards. Which would mean you don’t dare to stand up for yourself in the moment and set boundaries, or speak for yourself.

    Btw, is she (your new love interest) the kind of person who speaks up for herself when needed, or she only vents to you, but doesn’t dare to e.g. speak to her bosses?

    If I remember well, your previous girlfriend (the doctor) praised you for being so calm and composed. But that was likely only a persona, because your anger is deeply buried. And maybe that’s why you didn’t like her, because you didn’t allow yourself to be authentic with her (and by being authentic, I mean expressing your anger too). So perhaps you felt that she likes your persona (the part which you were comfortable showing), but not the real you?

    it happened before with one of my other friends too. We used to talk a lot and share a lot of things and then She got into relationship and then they decided to move to Canada together. Now we talk rarely. And it’s not just talking but I think somewhere in between I have to learn to accept that people come and go.

    One thing I am hearing is that good friends leave when they find a partner. You had a certain closeness with her, a certain emotional intimacy, but I guess neither of you were interested in a romantic relationship? And then you lost that closeness once she found a boyfriend and moved away, right?

    And with this recent female friend, she found a boyfriend and started talking about him enthusiastically, and you don’t like it:

    since yesterday I don’t like to talk to one of my friends who’s got into new relationship. Because she always be talking about how good and nice he is. I know as a friend I should be supportive but yeah I’m just not in the right mindset.

    Perhaps you are feeling a sense of loss of that deeper bond that you used to have – which always disappears when your female friend gets into a relationship? And also, there seems to be a longing for something you don’t have:

    it just feel weirdly painful when I hear like “Ohh my bf made a playlist for me”. “Ohh he surprised me with flowers” It reminds me of myself when I was in relationship

    Perhaps when they tell you these things, you get reminded of the good times in your own romantic relationships – good times which lasted for only a short while, and only in the beginning. But then the anger, upset and anxiety would set in (at least it was like that with your LDR, with whom you stayed for almost 3 years, if I remember well?). So there seems to be a longing for a relationship, but also fear because it never turned out well.

    Okay so I think we should discuss about this in depth. According my situation, Because again I just tend to think rationally instead of emotionally,

    I know I don’t want a superficial relationship. But because I don’t feel ready what if I start with something like situationship first instead of go all in serious romantic relationship and overwhelm myself?

    Yes, you don’t want a superficial relationship, but you are afraid of a deep relationship. Of deep attachment and vulnerability. Because that might hurt you. You have some false beliefs about a romantic relationship, e.g. expecting perfection from both yourself and your partner, expecting the relationship to be hard work etc. We talked about it previously. So because of these false beliefs and your own fear, you make relationship to appear super scary. And of course, you don’t want it.

    You want something “light”, as opposed to “hard”, which you believe a committed relationship is. But “light” can only work with someone who doesn’t want to be committed (i.e. someone with intimacy issues, like you), or someone who is hoping to change you, like your ex did. She was hoping that you would get madly in love with her and won’t be able to live without her – even though you told her you have attachment issues. But she was hoping you would change for her.

    Anyway, “light” relationship isn’t the real solution. It’s an escape from fear. And fear is lying to you that a loving, committed relationship is hard work and involves a lot of sacrifices.

    Maybe it would help if you wrote down everything you believe about a loving, committed relationship and what it involves. Perhaps it would shed some light on the various (false) assumptions you have around it?

     

    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Dafne,

    just a little correction. I want to rephrase one sentence to sound like this:

    The message your mother gave you might have been something like “stay here with me, where you are safe”

    Because I don’t want to project things on you. It was my mother who gave me the message “Stay here with me, where you are safe.” Maybe your mother’s message was different. Anyway, I just wanted to mention this.

    Much love and take care <3

     

    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Dafne,

    thank you for your kind words. I appreciate them and am happy I can help <3

    You’re right those counselors weren’t professional and unfortunately my anxiety skyrocketed after that visit.

    Even the fact that they were two (or more) of them, not just one counselor, in the session with you, is strange. Individual counseling is done 1:1. There is no need for another person to sit in the room, unless they are perhaps a supervisor. But that’s rare. Did both of those supposed “counselors” actually actively participate in the session with you? Have you inquired about their credentials? Because it could be that they are not real counselors, with a proper training.

    I will try to apply your plan for the future and moving away at some point. I could still visit frequently and help as much as I can without staying accesible and feel stuck in one place with them full time.

    I am so glad you’ve decided to plan for your future, where you won’t be stuck in the care-taker role full time, but will have the freedom to follow your own path. That’s wonderful!

    But Tee, what should I do with that little dog? He did not deserve to be treated like that. What if my mother is serious and will give him away. His heart would not handle it as he has a separation anxiety and doesn’t stay alone at home and never at other people’s place.

    You mean someone is always at home and he never needed to stay at home alone? And he hasn’t been trained for that either? I am not a dog expert, but perhaps you can inquire at the dog shelter you’re volunteering at about what’s best to do.

    And also, I know people like your mother – they like to blackmail with suicide or horrid things like that, but they would actually never do it. That’s their manipulation tactic. It is a way to keep you obedient and in the role she wants you to be. So don’t worry, she wouldn’t do any of the kind.

    And if she keeps threatening, you can tell her that she seems self-dangerous, and that you’ll have to report her to the authorities (e.g. her GP) that she might harm herself or the dog, and that she’ll need to be taken for a psychiatric evaluation. That can be a bluff, of course, but I think it might be enough to silence her.

    Because such people can only behave if they are blackmailed in some way, if they fear the possible consequences for them. If not, they have no regard whatsoever for other people, and you can’t reason with them. So I think this might be a good tactic – to use her own method and blackmail her (even if you are bluffing) with unpleasant consequences if she keeps telling these disturbing things about harm and self-harm.

    And you’re so right about that wrong mind program running in my head since childhood. It is mostly those little statements that my family always used on me: don’t talk, stay quite, what people will think, hide in your room or he (my uncle or my dadd) will get more angry when he sees you smiling (I could not smile in the presence of my uncle), don’t touch this, your opinion doesn’t matter etc.

    That’s so unfortunate, Dafne, that you were not allowed to be a normal kid, play freely and express yourself freely. You constantly had to fear something (your father or your uncle), and your mother was feeding that fear: she actually conditioned you to be this fearful little girl, who should not be seen or heard, who shouldn’t have any needs or desires of her own, who should hide in the corner (or her room) lest she gets the beating.

    I am so sorry that you were treated like that. It is time now to slowly but surely liberate that little girl from her corner, to let her speak and want things and express herself, and play freely. She deserves it, and you deserve it too. Her time, and your time, has come.

    I feel lots of fear. I hope it will not prevent me from moving away and finding my own place. I’m not sure if I can make it on my own. It is ironic how we are emotionally attached to people who have hurt you the most in life. Isn’t it?

    I know you feel fear. It’s normal that you do. Because you were taught that you are not good enough, and that you better hide from the world, instead of go out into the world and thrive and be happy. The message your mother gave you was something like “stay here with me, where you are safe. You are not good for anything else anyway.”

    But staying with her, caring for her and sacrificing your life for her is not a safe place at all. It is a place of decay and degradation. A place of lost opportunities and unfulfilled dreams.

    So it is time to get out of there, slowly but surely. You don’t need to do it suddenly, but by taking baby steps.

    I would also recommend to find something that you enjoy doing, and do more of it. Because you need to play more, you need to give your inner child the joy of doing something just for the fun of doing it. Not because it serves anybody. But simply because you enjoy it, so it serves you!

    So take up a hobby or some activity outside of serving your mother and her cousin, and even outside of volunteering at the dog shelter. Something which is pure joy for you, and you feel alive and happy when you do it.

    Is there such a thing for you?

    I am so happy that you are opening up to the possibility of venturing out from your comfort zone. Which of course is not comfortable at all, but painful. But it feels safe, until we realize it is not. And until it starts shrinking on us. At least that’s what I am learning nowadays about my own comfort zone…

    So I completely understand your fears, but I also know it is a necessity to step out of our comfort zone, if we want to be really happy and fulfilled.

    I am rooting for you, and thinking of you! Much love <3

     

    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    her choice of outfit is more like thin to an extent, or the skirt has a very long cut

    another outfit would be a top and jeans but the top is short so you can see her stomach clearly

    most of her outfits require her to wear no bra as well

    So she likes to party and dance without a bra. Nice. And then you say she doesn’t like when men view her as a sexual object?

    She did dance, but not to entertain men sexually and she is fully clothed, but these clothes highly certain parts of her body like her thigh or waist or breast etc.

    Okay, so she is dancing in a tight skirt with a high leg cut and a top without bra. But that’s not at all sexually enticing. It is innocent. And she has no intention to be viewed as a sex object. None at all.

    How am I deluding myself?

    Read the above. A girl dancing and partying without a bra is not seeking sexual attention from men. According to you.

    I would prefer not to assume that she was up doing all kinds of wrong things.

    Well, even if you prefer not to assume certain things, it doesn’t mean they didn’t happen. That’s a part of self-delusion: not wanting to see things that might hurt us. And she was a pro at making excuses for herself, and appearing to be innocent and oblivious, while continuing to do whatever she wants. And you fell for it.

    Btw is she still living in the same house with her ex?

     

    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    You would see a lot of females in revealing outfits teasing men or dancing sexually (such as shaking their asses at men) and behaviors like that really make my skin crawl and I cannot be in those kinds of environments.

    The only thing I didn’t account for was the way she would behave at the parties. Like I said, I am fine with her going to parties and resorts and enjoying herself, but she has to know how to act at these places. I should not be seeing her wearing revealing outfits like very thin bikinis/thongs and enjoying herself while other men are staring at her enticingly, especially since she is a very beautiful/sexy woman.

    So B is someone who likes to party, and those parties are the kind where girls (including B) dance practically naked, in a bikini/thongs, while men are staring at them and lusting after them. So B doesn’t mind that kind of environment, where she is looked at as a sexual object, a piece of meat. I am sure that’s how her rich old guy “friend” viewed her too.

    And indeed, they took a photo together by the pool at 6 am, after one of such parties. Surely, they didn’t all wake up early to go for a refreshing swim. But they stayed up all night, doing who knows what.

    But then you say:

    She is always fully clothed (except when she is at home… where her ex also lives) but she looks very sexually appealing in every outfit she wears no matter how fully clothed she is. So at that point, I can’t do anything regarding her clothes.

    Yes, she is fully clothed except when she is partying – that’s when she is practically naked.

    She is also fully clothed except when her ex is taking out her braids – that’s when she is naked, wrapped only in a towel. And yes, she lives under the same roof with her ex, so that’s when she is not fully clothed either.

    You also say:

    She grew up surrounded by these immoral activities but she said that these activities were disgusting to her and she will never follow that path. But like I said, she had COUNTLESS opportunities to use men for money and etc, but she didn’t.

    She didn’t? She didn’t prostitute herself for money? She doesn’t go to pool parties where she is dancing half-naked in front or rich old tourists? She didn’t let you finance her for an entire year? She didn’t take your laptop and doesn’t intend to return it any time soon? She didn’t convince you to invest in some shady financial schemes, and then used the little that you earned for her own expenses?

    She didn’t do any of that?

    But idk, maybe I am just making up excuses for her.

    Oh yes, you are. You are deceiving yourself big time. You see her as some innocent angel, who is 100000 times better than other women. But I don’t see any innocence in her, only manipulation. Her letter to you confirmed it: she felt crucified by you for having some minimum expectations. She presented herself like a victim, whereas she was lying to you and using you all the time.

    But you know, I won’t be trying to convince you of the same thing again and again. I’ve spent 11 pages analyzing her and trying to help you see how manipulative she is. But if you still think she is innocent, that’s your right.

    You tend to beautify your memory of her. Because in one post, you describe her sexually enticing dancing/partying habits, where she willingly goes to those parties and dances provocatively in front of men. But then in the very next post you claim that she always dressed modestly and that it’s not her fault that men lust after her.

    As I said, you are deluding yourself big time. You would need to decide: do you want to keep deluding yourself, or you want to finally see the truth?

     

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