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June 12, 2024 at 3:52 am in reply to: Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality? #433752TeeParticipant
Dear Paradoxy,
Yes, but his behavior shows that maybe he was interested in her from the beginning.
Possibly. She is sexy and seductive. As I said, many men are interested in such women.
Maybe that is why he did the stuff he did the previous times we fought. He may have made his move now but saying that he would have wanted to get to know her if I didnāt exist means he was interested in her even while I was dating her.
So in their June 4 conversation, he told her he would have wanted to get to know her (like from the moment he met her), if you weren’t his friend? If so, at least he respected the fact that you are his friend. But really, if he was attracted to her, what should have he done? Certainly not admit it to you, since that would have been even worse for everyone.
But I agree, it leaves a bad taste in your mouth to have your best friend being interested in your ex. Still, you can’t forbid him to be attracted to her, and now even to make a move. Still, I’d talk to him about it, because I am sure she is not telling you the whole story.
Um how is he a victim? He made the move first. He messaged her first. She just didnāt want me telling him that she told me the truth, especially after he told her not to tell me.
Well, she already went behind his back and told you about it – which he asked her not to. And they’ve communicated in the past too, it’s not like this was their first conversation. So there might have been an exchange between them, which you’re not aware of. And she seems like a girl who is flirty in general, so why wouldn’t she be with him too.
In any case, I think she could hardly wait to tell this to you, and to start pitting you and your friend against each other. She might have been telling him lies about you, same as she painted you as a psycho to one of her girlfriends, by omitting some important details.
So if she told him her version of the story (filled with lies), he might have started seeing her in a different light, and trusting her, and seeing her as a victim… So who knows what preceded that message of his, where he started hitting on her.
Though the photoshopping could be a possibility, I dont have any means of confirming it.
Unless you talk to your friend… and find out what he has to say, rather than trusting her (a proven liar) on her word.
Well I did see her bank statement and she only has around 60$ so I wouldnāt push it away as a tactic.
Well, she clearly likes to spend money (including your money)… that’s why she has almost nothing on her bank account. It’s not like she is trying hard to save up, so she can repay you. On the contrary, she is spending on herself, e.g. now she has enrolled a trading class. BTW is it to become a broker?
I know I might never get it, but I still wanted to try. Just maybe. Just maybe she might stop being the way she is, even if it is 0.00001%.
Good luck with that, Paradoxy. Because the chance is 0%. Zero. Nada. Your attempts are futile. It’s like going to the snake and expecting not to be bitten.
But it’s your choice. You know how she makes you feel. You know the kind of things she is telling you:
my ex proceeded with more insults. Telling me that every girl that rejected me dodged a bullet lol. Telling me that I am unlovable.
She owes you quite a lot of money, but she has the audacity to insult you and lecture you. And you are taking it all in, believing her, feeling worse after each conversation, feeling broken. But still, going for more, trying to convince her that you are a good person after all, hoping that she would see it, hoping that she would change….
I am sorry that you are allowing her to abuse you, time and again. I am sorry that you don’t realize that she is exploiting you and ruining you even more. And that she won’t change, even if she is promising things. Narcissistic people are known for that: false promises. Future faking. Giving you hope, promising that things will be different. But nothing. Ever. Changes.
She might even lure you back into a relationship. Beware of that.
June 11, 2024 at 3:01 am in reply to: Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality? #433683TeeParticipantDear Paradoxy,
The guy said āEveryoneās interactions with people are unique and different. It might not be the same for us.ā Basically he thinks that he will have a different/better experience with her than me ig.
Your guy friend told you this? Or he said it to her in their conversation (of which she sent you the screenshots)?
Their conversation happened on June 4, almost 3 months after you split up. So you can’t blame him. But he is in for a rough ride, if she indeed starts dating him.
Nope, he specifically told her not to tell me, and B requested that I not tell him that she told me. So I am just going to stay silent and see what happens.
It’s a typical narcissistic tactic – to make people keep secrets while they (the narcissist) makes up lies and intrigues behind their back. And pit friend against friend.
If I were you, I would speak with him. I wouldn’t respect the narcissist’s plea for secrecy, because it damages the victims. And now both of you (you and your guy friend) are her victims.
Based on the response B gave, he might not try it again, but if he does, ig we will see.
So she told him off? Refused his advances? (at least in the part of the conversation that she you let you see)? BTW I guess screenshots can be photoshopped too, so beware. I wouldn’t trust anything she sends – everything can be manipulated. That’s why it would be good to talk to your friend.
Yep, she has. Her lack of listening and other behaviors are why I call her a brick wall, cause nothing I say gets into her head.
Alright, it all makes sense now. Of course a narcissist would be a brick wall. They simply refuse to hear what they don’t want to hear.
She is showing signs of planning to delay the payment but I am not in Jamaica yet so we will see once I get back.
She paid me once, but it will probably take another 8-9 months before she can completely pay me back. Now she is telling me she started attending trading class and etc so she need the money for that.
Well at least she paid you once. But the delay tactics is in place, as I thought. Honestly, I don’t think it’s worth to keep talking to her (and getting into fights) for the next at least 8-9 months till you get the next batch of your money.
As a narcissist, she enjoys torturing you, sending you stuff that provoke you (like the convo between her and your friend), and pushing your buttons. Narcissists thrive on that. The bigger your reaction, the more powerful they feel. So my guess is that she is going to keep delaying the payment, and have you depend on her and her whims for as long as possible.
And though I didnāt say she seduced him or flirted with him, I told her that she probably made him feel too comfortable, which made him want to say the things he said. Besides, she had been posting her modeling pictures on her status too so I am not amazed he got intrigued.
I think you are right, and I am glad that you see it.
I donāt need to understand. I am just trying to respect her by listening to her and make her feel understood so that she may give the mutual respect for me and actually listen to me as well
Dear Paradoxy – you’re expecting respect and understanding from a narcissist? Unfortunately, that’s something you’ll never get…
I know it is stupid but I am working on improving myself by teaching myself to be more understanding.
You don’t need to be more understanding with a narcissist… You’ve already gave her plenty of leeway, and she is just using it to manipulate you further.
Yeah lol I was thinking about a punching bag too, I am probably going to find one and use it when I get time. But my anger is very controlled rn, but it might burst when I see him, so idk. We will see.
He is not the main person to be angry at… But in any case, even a pillow is a good strategy – if you don’t have a punching bag.
TeeParticipantHi SereneWolf,
sorry, this will be a long post. I apologize in advance if it’s too much and if I perhaps missed the point…
First of all thanks a lot for putting that much time for me. Youāre a truly good mentor and supporter.
You are very welcome! And thank you for your kind words. It seemed like an important material, and very relevant to you, so I figured I want to transcribe it, to have a written trace of it. I’ve learned a lot from it, and I am glad you too benefited.
Those are very good insights so thanks for pointing that out and the thing is that Iām trying to create a healthy boundaries but most of the time what is still happening that If I get a minor inconvenience or feel like theyāre not respecting my boundaries even once or twice I distance myself from them and after that I kinda feel much less connected to them.
It could be that if they don’t pick up immediately that something is bothering you, you feel unseen by them, and you conclude that your needs don’t matter to them, and that they might hurt you (maybe it’s not even conscious but unconscious reasoning). And from that moment on, you are on guard and you start distancing yourself.
If so, it means that a minor slip on their part leads to a major danger alert going off in your subconscious mind. And so you switch to defense mode, where you are on alert for being hurt. And in order to prevent being hurt, you preemptively withdraw and stop being open and vulnerable. This is what might be happening.
The reason for that is the old trauma, which causes you to make a big deal out of a minor issue. And to put up your shields.
What happened in your childhood is that your mother didn’t really care about your emotional needs: she didn’t care if your father’s anger outbursts hurt you. Moreover, she told you to accept it without any resistance. She basically told you your emotions don’t matter (in this case fear and anger), and that you should be able to control your anger and pretend that it’s not there. She told you that you should silently take the verbal “beatings” and be a good, obedient boy.
In other words, your mother didn’t have much regard for your emotional needs. She didn’t let you have boundaries. Or to be rightfully upset for being mistreated. And it felt horrible. It felt like a prison. It felt so horrible that you left home at the age of 17.
She didn’t let you set boundaries, and so you didn’t get the chance to learn how to set boundaries. The only way to protect yourself from being invaded was to leave. To remove yourself from the situation/relationship completely.
So this is I think what’s happening: in a romantic relationship, when you feel that the person doesn’t care about your needs ā and it could be that even a minor thing can trigger such a feeling ā your knee-jerk reaction is to want to leave the relationship. Even if you don’t leave physically, you start withdrawing emotionally, and the intimacy is lost for you. Intimacy is not an option any more.
So instead of working to repair the relationship ā and maintain emotional connection and intimacy ā you put a stop on intimacy. You block it. Even if you stay in the relationship, you stay in a self-defense mode, with your shields up (we’ve talked about the shield/armor around your heart).
And I think one aspect of this self-defense mode is the superiority/inferiority dynamic, where you feel less vulnerable if you can feel superior than your partner.
In the relationship with your father, you felt inferior and never good enough. It seems that with a romantic partner, you never want to feel that way: worthless, unlovable, not good enough. And so you either avoid relationships altogether, or if you opt for a relationship, you want to feel better than your partner. Because that’s how you feel safe(r) from her criticism.
I think that’s why you also want to perfect yourself as much as possible before getting married:
[I said] Maybe loving hard also means that youĀ need to work hard to be lovable? That you need to be successful, so she would love you (“she can always find a rich husband but a for a guy, he got to be something good”)?
[you replied] Kind of yes I guess like trying to perfecting the relationship and my partner too.
I imagine it’s because the idea of being stuck with someone who criticizes you all the time (such as a criticizing, judgmental wife) is unbearable.
But I think also the idea of being stuck with a woman who is full of faults, who is unaware of her issues and refuses to work on herself ā is equally unbearable to you:
I just donāt want to deal with the women who arenāt even self aware about their traumas and not actively working on it. Because effort is something that really attractive to me. Kind of a priority.
In your last post you said the girl should be similar to you:
I donāt think that some damaged people but hmm more like someone I can resonate with a little, Not too much different from me so it would be easier to open up for me.
Putting all this information together, it seems to me that your perfect partner is someone who has similar issues, i.e. someone who similarly like you doesn’t feel good enough and wants to “perfect” herself.
Your first LDR was like that, wasn’t she? She had many issues (mostly low self-esteem) and wanted to change. And you were keen on helping her to change. You two were stuck in the superior/inferior dynamic, where she was trying to change and be a better person, but was failing most of the times. You hoped she would change, but she never did, and after 3 years you had enough and called it quits.
With your next LDR, you only stayed for about 2 months. This is what you said about her:
Sheās nice and mature but she is somewhat an anxious person. like whatever I suggest she be like itās easy to tell, hard to do. even though I tried being patience sheās just doesnāt want to get out of her comfort zone.
Sheās mostly complaining that Iām being hard on her. Even though Iām trying to take this patiently. So what now I shouldnāt have some ground values of my own?
She didn’t appreciate your attempts to push her out of her “comfort zone”. She thought you were hard on her. Maybe thatās because she had more self-esteem than your first LDR and showed more resistance to your attempts to “perfect” her. And since her resistance was greater (and more obvious) than your first LDR, you broke up with her rather swiftly:
When I donāt see efforts I also lost interest quite fast. One of the reasons why I broke up with one of the Best LDR I had. Because I felt like I was the only one putting the efforts there. and thatās why in 2nd LDR I sensed like I donāt want to deal with the same thing because I felt like she wouldnāt even put the effort more than the previous one. so I broke up with her as well.
Now this latest girl has issues as well, possibly some similar to yours (anger), but overall, she has bigger issues than you in terms of mental health. She also seems interested in working on herself (she has been in therapy for 4 years), which is a must for you.
So right there you’ve got 2 potential attraction points: she has similar but greater issues than you, and she is (at least in theory) interested in self-improvement.
You also said she is mysterious:
I think I was curious because she seemed little bit mysterious at first. ā¦ She smokes, sheās dramatic and her anger is always on the edge. I tried to understood why sheās the way she is and I noticed that itās just her coping mechanisms, At heart sheās kind and loving woman.
It could be that you were intrigued by her anger (because it reminded you of your father), and started hoping that underneath her anger you might find a “kind and loving woman”. So she would be someone similar to your father, and yet different: someone who appears rough and angry on the outside, but is actually kind and loving underneath. This might have been a hope and the excitement that your inner child felt in the presence of this “mysterious” woman.
Maybe I got carried away too much here. But in any case, I can see why you were intrigued by her, even if she appears the “opposite of what you like” (another friend told me how she is opposite of what I like).
But just because this recent woman which I barely talked to her for like 2 weeks. We canāt say that Iām attracted to troubled people. Can we? But yeah sheās more troubled thatās for sure.
Well, you were attracted to a troubled person in the past (your first LDR), with whom you stayed for more than 3 years. And you said she was your best LDR.
Maybe I am looking too much into this, and I apologize if I am talking nonsense. But still, here’s what I am thinking: perhaps the reason why you considered her your best relationship is because she fulfilled the 3 criteria that I listed above: 1) similar but greater issues than you, 2) openness (at least declarative) to self-improvement and change, and 3) openness to being coached/helped by you, as someone who is “further along” on the self-development journey? Perhaps these are the “attraction points” that make you fall in love with a girl?
Please note: this is just an assumption. Think about it, and see if it resonates at all. If yes, then it’s kind of a formula of how you fall in love, a formula which is more or less based on self-defense. It doesn’t really allow for intimacy and vulnerability.
Let me know what you think. And I apologize if I went overboard with my assumptions and analysis.
June 8, 2024 at 3:21 am in reply to: Understanding someone who's recently divorced and not ready #433605TeeParticipantDear Dafne,
I was thinking about his deal to leave the house to his ex-wife and children. Perhaps that’s not so unfair, because she is the mother of his children and takes care of them, so it would be unfair to take it from underneath her once the children are grown. So that part of the deal might not be unfair.
But nevertheless, he doesn’t seem like a good man in general, and I think you can be happy that the relationship ended.
June 8, 2024 at 2:24 am in reply to: Understanding someone who's recently divorced and not ready #433604TeeParticipantDear Dafne,
thank you for your care and kindness and wishing me well regarding my health.
I am very sorry that you are suffering from the consequences of long Covid. That must be awful š
And did you get Covid more than once? Because you said that it got worse after your last Covid (After my last COVID, it got even worst.) I really hope that with time it will get better for you, Dafne.
I was smiling when you mentioned the flower in my profile picture you got it right again. I did do a lot of artistic projects in the past and painting was one of my favourites. I used to sit in the nature a lot and just breath.
I am glad I was right about the artist in you! š How come you stopped painting and doing art projects, if I may ask?
Perhaps being in nature and just soaking in its beauty would help you relax, and might even have a positive effect on your breathing? I apologize in advance if I am over simplifying things and making useless suggestions. Because I know dealing with a chronic illness is much more complicated than that…
Yes, it was a separate session but people seemed to share the information and it did not feel very private. The group wasnāt the patients but the health professionals.
Oh so it was like an expert panel, so to speak, giving you their suggestions. That’s a strange setup for counseling, because counseling is best done 1:1, where the patient develops trust and rapport with the practitioner. What they did is more like a hospital setting, where a panel of doctors decides what’s the best treatment option in case of disease. But here, the best treatment option is to have empathy and understanding for the client. That’s how our healing begins.
You found the right word for this kind of practice ātough loveā and it wasnāt a very compassionate & understanding environment. It might be that they meant well and did not want people to feel like victims but the effect was completely different. It did not feel right at all and feelings seemed to be ignored and logic prevailed.
I understand it’s important not to feel like a helpless victim – because if we do, we won’t be able to make the necessary changes in our lives. However, we were victims as children – we were indeed helpless victims. And we were harmed. And this needs to be acknowledged before we can proceed to heal. The wound needs to be acknowledged, before it can be treated.
Tee, I will make sure to check the places you suggested for the tramatised animals. My momās dog is a COVID baby as she got him around that time. She rescued him and had to pay a lot of money as the place did not want to keep him due to his appearance. He had a squint and was very shy.
Oh so nobody wanted the little dog, but your mom took pity on him and rescued him. And I guess she paid a lot of money for his surgery, i.e. doctor’s expenses?
Nobody wanted him but my mother showed her loving heart and took him. My mother did not give him the proper training as most places were closed during the COVID and he stayed at home most of the time. She did a very beautiful thing but now as he got older it got harder as well.
Well, this tells me that your mom would never hurt that dog. If she had a loving heart to take him and nurse him to health, then I am sure she would never harm him. So her threats are empty, Dafne, she is only using it to emotionally blackmail you.
As for your ex fiance, first I’d like to say that it’s better that you’ve split up, because he seems like a violent man, who attacked his wife physically and she had to call the police on him twice (he pushed his ex-wife on the coach and she called police 2 times on him.)
Not only that, but he blamed her for his violent behavior (he blamed her for everything).
Which means that if you had a disagreement with him in the future, you might have received a similar treatment, and a similar excuse: that it was your fault.
Also, he was possessive, because he didn’t like it when you went out with your girlfriends. He was also jealous, believing that you might find someone better than him:
he controlled me when I wanted to go out with my girlfriends. He always suspected that I might meet some man better than him.
Possessiveness and jealousy is another big red flag. And the need to control his partner’s social life, lest she leaves him. Those are all very worrying features in a guy.
The financial aspect and stinginess is also a problem, but it’s not even his worst sin. Physical violence and blaming the woman for “provoking” him, as well as possessiveness and jealousy are all very serious problems. And you are lucky you haven’t ended up together with him.
As for his financial and living arrangements with his ex-wife, I didn’t get it whether he was living in the house he bought on mortgage, or his ex-wife was living there with their children? Or they were both living in the same house, because he couldn’t afford to buy/rent another place?
You said your mother went to help with his kids and stayed there for 2 weeks. Which would tell me that he is living there with the kids. Where was his ex wife during that time? Was she sick?
I am guessing he is not sharing equal custody of the kids (50:50), since you said he doesn’t have a baby sitter (he did not want to pay for baby sitter or any help). So I am guessing this 2-week period was an exception, when his wife wasn’t there or couldn’t take of the kids, and that’s why he had to take care of them?
Another problem was that he wasn’t legally divorced – that’s why he didn’t want a civil wedding, and he never showed you the divorce papers. He still had common property with his ex-wife – the house which he was paying the mortgage for – and so a chunk of his income always goes towards that property. And I’ve looked it up, it’s common in case of divorce that the family home remains intact, for the benefit of the children. And that it may remain intact till the youngest child turns 18.
However, after that, the place can be sold and the proceeds split. But he wanted to keep that place for his children and his ex-wife even after his death (He told me that his house is for his kids and when he dies also for his ex-wife.), while at the same time he was expecting you to live in a partnership with him, in which a significant portion of his income would go towards paying off the mortgage. To me, this sounds unfair.
I don’t know, maybe I am not seeing it clearly, but it seems unfair, because you would be bearing the burden of his mortgage, but then eventually, the house would go to his ex-wife after his death.
His other features, like despising poor people, are also a big red flag:
He always spoke about rich people highly and told his kids that poor people have no value in this life.
So all in all, he doesn’t seem like a good, ethical person, on the contrary. And you made a good choice for not proceeding with him!
What do you think Tee? Was I right to stop all the contact with him after all that? I still wrote with his daughter but it seems now that she is distancing herself from me as well. What would you do in my place?
You were right to stop contact with him. When did you split up? How old are his children now? And how long were you together? I guess it’s normal that your relationship with his daughter slowly fades away, since you never got to live with her and form a deeper bond with her, right?
June 7, 2024 at 1:47 am in reply to: Understanding someone who's recently divorced and not ready #433581TeeParticipantDear Dafne,
happy to hear from you! I am sorry your internet access was disrupted – hopefully it will get back to normal soon.
I myself am more or less okay, thank you for asking. Still having some new health issues that come and go, but I try not to worry about it too much. These past 6 months have been about learning how to face and manage my health anxiety, and my fears in general. And it’s a work in progress, but I am getting better at it š
Meanwhile I found out a bit more about that counselling place you asked me about.
Good you did that!
And the first person I spoke to was a nurse and the other was a counselor. They each had an assessment with me and they had the same opinions of what I confined to them.
Oh so it wasn’t one session with both of them, but two separate sessions, right? But they both gave you a similar opinion – basically blaming you for not helping yourself as a child :\
Then at the end of my session I spoke to a group of people and they seemed to know about the problems of all other participans as well.
You mean you participated in a group therapy session, where participants share about their problems?
I remember one person saying that you need to be honest with yourself where you made any mistakes and should not sugarcoat it like at many other institutions.
Well yeah, we need to be honest with ourselves, but it is also important to understand what caused our problems and how our childhood trauma led us to where we are now.
I don’t know what they meant by “sugarcoating”? Is it to have empathy and understanding for the person? Because if they advocate more of the “tough love” approach, telling the person to “get a grip” and “take responsibility” – so coming more from a judgmental side – it cannot lead to a lasting healing.
Regarding the dog, Iām really thankful for all your advice. I contacted a vet but she is not a behaviourist so couldnāt help too much. Unfortunately we do not have a big choice here.
Then I asked at the shelter and they gave me the number of a dog sitter & a trainer. They told me that he is not easy to train as he has aggressive tendencies and his anxiety is too big. Iāve tried to leave him with her gradually but she wasnāt happy to continue as she could not touch him and he snaped at her. I donāt see any solution here.
I am sorry the people you’ve asked so far couldn’t really help. Did this dog come from a shelter, and was already traumatized, or your mother didn’t treat him/train him properly?
But I know there are people who are willing to work with even the most traumatized dogs. And even take them to their homes. Perhaps google “working with traumatized dogs” and see what comes up?
Youāre right Tee, there are a few things that I like doing and need to do more often. I neglected it for a long time. I could say that I enjoy listening to the music, painting and travelling.
It all sounds lovely! Perhaps you can take up painting? Your profile picture, with nice flowers, kind of gives me the vibe of an artistic soul… Whatever you choose, I strongly recommend doing something that feeds and nourishes your soul!
What do you like doing in your free time?
I used to love hiking and taking walks in nature, but I’ve got mobility issues since the last few years, so climbing even the smallest hill isn’t an option any more š But I still love to take a stroll in nature, even if it’s just a green oasis within the city, e.g. visiting an arboretum, or a Japanese garden. I find it very nourishing for my soul…
Ā Iām not sure if you believe in dreams and that they mean something but I keep having the same dreams for a long time now. I see my ex fiancĆ© in them. I keep waking up with regrets that I gave up on him so easily. I think I mentioned him to you once.
You mentioned someone who you felt only wanted you to take care of his kids and cook and clean for him. To be a maid, sort of. Is that him?
He told me that his house is for his kids and when he dies also for his ex-wife. And if we want something together, I need to buy something new with him.
So he didn’t have a place to live and basically wanted you to co-finance his new place?
He visited some of my family, but it was not enough for him & he insisted to also see how my mother lives.
Do you know why he was so adamant to see how your mother lives? Perhaps he was interested in her real estate? Sorry if I am being too suspicious, but I can only think of 2 reasons why seeing your mother’s place would be such a deal-breaker for him: either he thought you are hiding something about your mother, and saw this as a red flag, or he was interested in seeing what type of property he can count on some time down the line. Did he seem materialistic, stressing things like wealth, status etc?
His family also interfered a lot, and he always asked their opinion.
You mean his ex-wife interfered? Or his parents?
He was a bit controlling at times but that showed me that he cares about me.
Can you give me an example of his being controlling?
Was my mother right about not inviting him? Was he bad news but I didnāt see it?
Well, your mother was not too kind in not wanting to meet him. However, it is her right not to invite guests to her house. He expected you to “convince” her, although if someone is stubborn, what can you do? Have you talked about your mother (and her character) to him? It seems he blamed you for not being able to control (or have more influence over) your mother…
I don’t think your mother is right when it comes to judging people’s characters. So I wouldn’t trust her judgment, specially since she never even met him. However, there are some red flags in his behavior, so it might be a good thing that you didn’t push for a relationship with him.
Why those dreams keep torturing me?
It could be that your counseling session, in which the counselor accused you of not being pushy enough with your recent love interest (the church man), triggered some regrets about this other guy, who was your fiance. Maybe there is something to look at in this relationship, and now is the right time for it? I’ll be happy to help you analyze it a bit more, if you’d like?
Big hug to you too, cheers and all the best, dear Dafne <3
June 6, 2024 at 1:01 am in reply to: Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality? #433533TeeParticipantDear Paradoxy,
The amount of anger that I have boiling inside me makes me want to break him, but I made a promise to his mother to keep him safe.
A boxing bag might be a good idea – a safe way to physically express anger without hurting anybody…
June 6, 2024 at 12:06 am in reply to: Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality? #433532TeeParticipant* A slight correction:
Because if not, then your ongoing conflict is just a smokescreen, which she uses to justify her defiance and her refusal to give you back your money.
June 6, 2024 at 12:03 am in reply to: Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality? #433531TeeParticipantDear Paradoxy,
Got screenshots of their conversation on Instagram
She sent it to you? When is the conversation between the two of them dated?
but honestly donāt know who to trust anymore.
Definitely not her. She is known for seductive behavior, sexting and other stuff. And lying. I wouldn’t be surprised if she flirted with your friend too.
Basically, he was interested in her from the beginning. Basically, he was interested in her from the beginning. Despite all the things I told him about her.
A sexy, enticing girl, who enjoys men’s attention, is interesting to a lot ofĀ men… He might think she is hot. There is no crime in that. But he didn’t start anything with her until after you two broke up. If it is even true that he started hitting on her. Perhaps she was being seductive with him… BTW if he really wants to pursue her, in spite of everything you told him about her, well good luck, he’ll have to learn his lesson the hard way.
The amount of anger that I have boiling inside me makes me want to break him, but I made a promise to his mother to keep him safe.
Please don’t harm him. You need to control the physical expression of your anger, even if you feel anger inside.
So now I have to walk around with more anger and hate in my heart, while pretending to be good friends with him.
Have you talked to him about her allegations (that he was hitting on her)?
Already called B out for being a narcissist a while back, but that argument didnāt go anywhere. She is just too stubborn.
Yeah, narcissists are like that… and if you call them out, they’ll accuse you right back – that you are a narcissist. Has she done that?
I am here trying my best to stay calm and understanding and she just pushes all the wrong buttons.
What do you need to understand? Has she started repaying your laptop, or she is still finding excuses to delay it?
And then I burst when I couldnāt handle her disrespect and I started being verbal abusive to her when she crossed the line with her disrespect. I tolerate insults toward me but donāt expect me to stay calm if she starts insulting my parents, and I fell right into her trap: she now says I am the one who didnāt change and that she was the one who had to put up with my verbal abuse.
Are you still caught in a conflict with her, with arguments, mutual accusations, insults, things like that?
Even if I watched those videos and identified B as a narcissist, I still have to put up with her until I get my money back.
And has she started repaying? Because if not, then your ongoing conflict is just a smokescreen, which uses to justify her defiance and her refusal to give you back your money. She might want to keep you in this state of anger, frustration and conflict for months and years. Without delivering what she’s promised.
June 4, 2024 at 11:56 am in reply to: Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality? #433465TeeParticipantDear Paradoxy,
I honestly donāt know anymore. Last night I found out that my guy best friend just hit on my ex, behind my back, going far enough to tell her not to tell me. Basically, he was interested in her from the beginning. Despite all the things I told him about her. Lol.
Oh wow! A faithful friend he is… And how did you find out? From B?
Then my ex proceeded with more insults. Telling me that every girl that rejected me dodged a bullet lol. Telling me that I am unlovable and etc. I donāt know anymore. To fight back I started insulting her too. But idk, I was never good at a verbal battle.
You know, I’ve been suspecting for a while that B is narcissistic. I first started suspecting when I read her letter. The style was pretty much that of a narcissist, the covert (so-called vulnerable) type. So someone who is super selfish and manipulative, and yet playing a victim.
Recently I’ve been watching some youtube videos on narcissism by a famous clinical psychologist and expert in narcissism, Dr Ramani Durvasula (the channel’s name: DoctorRamani). And let me give you the titles of some of those videos:
When narcissists harm you and then expect a hug
When a narcissist promises to change
What does it mean when a narcissist says “I’m sorry”
Narcissist defensiveness vs. REAL apology
Why do you always need to repeat yourself to narcissists
B did all of the above: expected you to keep behaving as if nothing happened (and have sex with her) when she told you she prostituted herself, she kept promising to change and never did, she kept giving you fake apologies, she kept “forgetting” things (and you needed to repeat yourself over and over again). And of course, she was lying to you, falsely accusing you and gaslighting you, the latter being the signature of a narcissistic person.
If I am right, Paradoxy, then you had it thousand times worse than in a normal relationship. Because a relationship with a narcissist is pure hell. And has the ability to ruin the person. So no wonder you feel broken: broken wings, broken heart, broken soul.
But I have to ask you something: even if you agree with me, please please please don’t tell B that she is a narcissist. Because it will backfire. A narcissist cannot be defeated by telling them the truth about themselves – a narcissist will always turn things against you. And you’ve already experienced it with her:
I was never good at a verbal battle.
Precisely. You cannot win an argument with a narcissist.
Canāt seem to fight the feeling that maybeā¦. just maybeā¦. people are actually better off without me.
She made you believe that. Unfortunately, she “confirmed” what you already believed about yourself before, due to your upbringing. But she is a broken mirror, Paradoxy. She is one big lie. Whatever she tells you about yourself is a lie. Toxic. Poison.
Perhaps you want to peak into one of those videos that I mentioned above. I think you’d recognize B very easily…
TeeParticipantHi SereneWolf,
I just want to add: the fact that you’ve recently stood up to both your father and grandfather and expressed your frustration is a big deal! That’s the beginning of standing up for yourself, saying No to certain things, and setting boundaries. Exactly what you need in the next phase of your healing journey: to speak more freely and stand up for yourself, not suppressing your frustration and pretending you are fine with being mistreated (the latter is what your mother taught you).
So it’s a huge huge step forward and an important milestone!
It’s also great that your mother understood your need to speak up and didn’t try to silence you, once you’ve explained to her how much her “hushing you down” have cost you in terms of mental health:
Although My father does started to tell my mom (Not to me or my brother directly) that weāre not obedient like before. We siblings talk back a lot. And My mother still just listens to that. But she did told me that if you think itās hurting you then speak up I didnāt speak up in all these years so I donāt speak up or just rarely.
So that’s a change of attitude on her part too. And you were clear that you won’t let her hush you down anymore. So I just want to reiterate: that’s a great progress, SereneWolf, and I think it’s actually a crucial step in becoming more authentic and self-confident (and free) – not only in the relationship with your parents, but in all of your relationships too.
TeeParticipantHi SereneWolf,
I’ve watched another video by the same psychologist (Heidi Priebe), where she goes into a great detail explaining the main features of the fearful avoidant style. The video is 1 hr long, and it’s called 10 Signs You May Have A Fearful-Avoidant Attachment Style. She herself used to be fearful avoidant, so that’s her specialty and she knows a lot about it.
Anyway, I watched it and recognized similar features that you shared about your own behavior in relationships. Here are two signs of the fearful avoidant style that she described, which I think you’ve expressed too (her bullets are expressed in the “you” form, so I am keeping that form):
- You crave intimacy but fear commitment
- You want other people to be vulnerable before you are
In the following, I’ll paraphrase what she said about each of these signs:
1. You crave intimacy but fear commitment
The false belief (based on their childhood experiences): to be in a relationship means to give up my independence and my sense of self to give endlessly of myself to the other person.
Fearful avoidants like people and intimate connections, but they are afraid of losing their sense of self in the relationship. So they make a deal with themselves: “I’ll go into the relationship, I’ll get that hit of intimacy and a sense of connectedness, but then I am going to pull back and I’m not going to enter this relationship long term, because to be in a relationship long term means to lose my sense of self. So I’ll sacrifice my sense of self for a while, to get the intimacy I need and crave, but then I pull back because I can’t bear to lose myself on the long run”.
They don’t realize that one can keep their sense of self and still be deeply emotionally connected to another person. They engage is merging with the other person, but at the expense of losing themselves, which is painful. So the fearful avoidant only feels comfortable in relationships when there is an expiry date. The idea of a long-term commitment, even to someone they really love, is terrifying.
(end of paraphrase)
You too expressed this same notion of losing yourself in the relationship, and completely focusing on the other person and their needs and wants:
Sometimes I canāt say No to a person even though Iād like to say No. … I really fear disappointing them.
In relationship I care too much and even if theyāre little careless about their health or things that affect them or make them worry it makes me worry 3x times more and I canāt focus on my things.
In relationships I just loose myself in the process because over caring and overthinking about partner. And it affects my mood and even the sleep…
If I even notice even a little that what I suggested made them uncomfortable I wouldnāt hesitate to change my plans just to see them not disappointed.
The above are the examples where you lost yourself in the relationship and started caring not to disappoint your partner, not to want anything for yourself. You also started overly caring about her physical and emotional well-being, to the point of getting enmeshed and not being able to focus on your own stuff, and even losing sleep over it. That was happening in both of your LDRs, if I remember well.
So that’s the “hard” love that you want to avoid. The enmeshed, self-denying love, which is I guess the anxious part of your personality.
No wonder you don’t want it. You get exhausted in such relationships. And then you go back to being alone and restoring your independence:
I donāt like being even partially ādependentā on someone or affected by them. It could be because I like to control (Itās lot better than before but still) but not being controlled. Because I prefer some things should be my way. And It should be without judgements.
Like I know Iām in touch with my inner child and I still do lot of things that an adult actually doesnāt do like I turned into a kid when Iām with kids, Different kind of bicycling, Singing and dancing for no reason (Lot of times while cooking, Watching Anime and Cartoons and lot of things like that). And I kind of fear they would judge me for that and not actually understand.
When I asked you what you wouldn’t compromise, you said:
I think my freedom and ability to do whatever I want.
Also ability to go wherever I go. Itās like a parent would be like donāt go to hike there itās dangerous out there and then even after she said no and Iād go I feel guilty.
But the problem is when this independence turns into total self-reliance, which is the opposite extreme of enmeshment. Which again isn’t a healthy state. And so the goal, according to this psychologist, and I agree with her, is integration.
Whereas now you might be prone to suppressing your emotional, overly reactive and needy part (the one that goes into enmeshment), you’d need to acknowledge it and give it more room for expression. For example, dare to speak up if something bothers you about the person’s behavior. Don’t suppress your frustration and pretend that you are so very tolerant and understanding (which you used to do in your LDRs, if I remember well). Set boundaries. Express your likes and dislikes. I don’t want to go into details in this post, but setting boundaries and expressing your dislikes would be the way to integrate your emotional, reactive part.
The second feature of the fearful avoidant style, which I think also applies to you is:
2. You want other people to be vulnerable before you are
This is what Heidi Priebe says about it:
People with fearful avoidant style do want emotional intimacy, but they also fear getting hurt. They are quite guarded, even if they are warm, empathic and engaging. They ask a lot of questions, but they don’t share too much about themselves (specially not the vulnerable parts). They are good listeners ā they make other people comfortable and safe to express themselves and talk about deeper things. But they don’t want to share similarly deep about themselves until they are sure that the power dynamic is tipped in their favor.
That’s because they believe that people are naturally inclined to hurt and betray each other. They don’t trust people. So the only way they are willing to open up and share vulnerable information about themselves is if they are sure that the other person is “worse off” than them, i.e. has bigger weaknesses than them. Or that the other person is more in love with them than they are with the person, and so the other person has more to lose than them.
The fearful avoidant is always evaluating: what’s the likelihood that this person is safe for me to open up to. But their indicators of safety are not that the person is warm and kind and comforting, but it’s more likely to be something like: “this person has already shown me all of their cards, so now I can flip over mine, knowing that their issues are bigger than mine”.
People with fearful avoidant style usually don’t pursue, but wait to be pursued. Because pursuing/chasing someone requires vulnerability, which fearful avoidants don’t want to show.
(end of paraphrase)
You talked about not wanting to be too vulnerable with your partner (in your LDRs). You also mentioned feeling inferior (at least in the beginning) with the doctor. And you were attracted to troubled people, whom you perhaps unconsciously saw as weaker, or with more problems, than yourself.
So perhaps the tendency to get attracted to problematic girls is a part of this need to not feel judged by your partner, because you kind of feel “better” than them, and thus safer from their criticism and their ability to hurt you (which would be a defense against the wound your father inflicted upon you, criticizing you for your “weaknesses” and your “imperfections”). I am not claiming this, but it is a possibility.
Anyway, it seems to me you do fit some of the features of the fearful avoidant style. And the good news is that it can be healed – via integration. Integration of the emotionally reactive, angry and needy part (which you are perhaps ashamed of and want to keep hidden from people) into your main personality. By allowing yourself to say No and have boundaries, basically.
Let me know how all of this sounds?
TeeParticipantHey SereneWolf,
I think doctor was able to get really close to my heart. But there was fear of intimacy. fearful avoidant attachment style you know.
I’ve never realized you were fearful avoidant, which is different than dismissive avoidant (I thought you were the latter). So I googled fearful avoidant and have come across a fantastic youtube video about it, titled: “Fearful-Avoidant: The Blindspot That Keeps You Repeating The Same Relationship Mistakes“.
The detailed explanation blew me away. Let me know if you resonate with it. I can see how it might actually apply to you… because I am guessing you would be the fearful avoidant type who is leaning more towards the avoidant side (the other option is fearful avoidant who is leaning more towards the anxious side).
Anyway, if it resonates, I think this video actually gives a solution to the problem, because it offers great ideas on how to heal. Do let me know if it applies to you!
May 27, 2024 at 10:39 pm in reply to: Should a “Cheating” Girlfriend be forgiven over a technicality? #433196TeeParticipantDear Paradoxy,
She is not gaslighting because she did care for me regarding the physical aspect but failed in the emotional and mental aspect.
Well, she said she always noticed when you felt upset:
My mom… started lecturing me that I should be more caring and stuff and how she always cared about me whenever I looked upset.
Upset is not the same as feeling tired, sleep deprived, or undernourished:
she was caring regarding the physical aspect. She noticed when I was tired, she noticed when I was sleep deprived, she saw how weak I looked from days I went without eating to focus on studying while I was in college,
Since she is claiming she would notice your upset – which is not a physical, but an emotionalĀ state – she is indeed gaslighting you. Besides, she told you that you humiliated them when she learned about your suicide attempt. That’s how emotionally “supportive” and “tuned in” she was.
I donāt blame her though but the audacity to say that she noticed whenever I was unwell is just pissing me off.
Well, sure, you don’t blame them for anything. Even if they’ve hurt you. And they’ve hurt you in two ways: first, when they didn’t notice anything beyond your physical health, and second, when they claimed they cared for you, even if they didn’t care about your emotional health one bit. So, first they’ve hurt you, then they claimed they didn’t. That’s a definition of gaslighting.
My father also sucks up his own problems.
So basically, in their eyes, nothing of my issues are worth me complaining about.
Sure, because in their eyes, only physical issues and illnesses are worth complaining about. And since you are still young and healthy, why indeed would you complain about a single thing? You must be an idiot if you do (says your father).
Yes I see that but I also realized that my parents are right about me being an idiot.
First, you are not an idiot for sometimes being absent-minded, or forgetting something, or making a mistake. You are simply human who is making mistakes, like other humans. But when they raise you with a belief that you are an idiot, that that’s your identity, i.e. that something is fundamentally wrong with you – that’s what’s horribly damaging. And they raised you like that.
That’s what you believe about yourself: that something is fundamentally wrong with you. And that’s what all children (and later adults) who were emotionally abused believe about themselves. Until they start healing and reverting those damaging core beliefs.
So technically my parents were right about me being an idiot. So now what? Canāt really say that my parents are wrong about me nowā¦.
You are not an idiot –Ā not now, not before. You make mistakes, like we all do. But you, Paradoxy, don’t want to accept it: you fell for their false view of you: that you are an idiot. That you are not good enough. You fell for that false identity. In other words, you accepted a lie.
Yesterday I came across these verses, which I think describe very well what happened to you (and to me too, until I’ve started healing):
Don’t break a bird’s wings and then tell it to fly.
Don’t break a heart and then tell it to love.
Don’t break a soul and then tell it to be happy.
Author: Najwa Zebian, from her book āMind Platterā
TeeParticipantCiao SereneWolf š
Haha I think even little caffeine should work. Too much caffeine isnāt good for the person who isnāt consuming caffeine daily. Donāt you think?
Yeah I guess so. But still, I’d go for a cappuccino instead of a latte, just to be sure that the wake-up effect is there š
Spartan Upbringing I like the words you used. So that makes us warriors? I guess so lol
Actually, upon thinking about it, I wasn’t raised to be a warrior. I was raised to fear everything. And to stay by my mother’s side, where I was supposedly “safe”. Not to try anything new, not to experiment, because I might hurt myself… And so, that’s what I’ve learned – to fear and procrastinate.
So Spartan wasn’t a good choice of words in my case, because it definitely didn’t teach me to be a fearless warrior – quite the opposite. But I meant Spartan in terms of no empathy.
It seems that you were quite different though, because you did even dangerous things, without fear, or in spite of fear. Fear (of adventure, exploration, of trying out new things, of living on your own at 16) didn’t stop you. So in that sense, I think you can be called a fearless warrior š
Ā Itās like putting hands on your eyes and then tell others that youāre blind.
Actually, she doesn’t think she is blind. She believes she sees things correctly and that she knows better (about life and everything that matters).
And the another thing is that if she thought that she wasnāt good enough daughter, didnāt she thought that now I have my own daughter I should raise her right that so she would feel good enough?
Well, she believes she wasn’t “perfect” enough, since she didn’t fulfill her parents’ expectations fully, or she did, but with a delay. And she was chastising herself all her life for that supposed “failure”, which wasn’t a failure at all. But still, she could never forgive herself for her supposed mistakes. And maybe because of that, she raised me with this pressure to be perfect, to not make mistakes. And she would chastise me for even the smallest mistake. I was never good enough for her.
And Yeah heās big on relationships. Business and personal both. I also admire my aunt. Their love is really awesome. They studied together and then dated for like over 7 years they already decided that they want to get married and just before 2 months of the engagement he had a bad accident and he lost his leg (now he has a artificial leg and he walks fine). So my auntās parents said we donāt want this wedding to happen. But my aunt was firm and she said that no matter what happens Iām going to marry him. And against her parentsā decision she married to him which is quite a big thing for a woman here. And her own parents didnāt talked to her for over 3 years.
Wow, what a story! It’s a testament of true love, and how much your aunt loved him, because she chose to stay with him even after he became partially disabled. And in spite of her parents’ disapproval. So yeah, that’s true love. And I guess when she made her choice, her love was stronger than the fear about the future and how they’ll make it with his disability etc. So, love conquered fear… Inspiring!
About healing the issues. Hereās the fun part. Sheās on therapy for over 4 years
Oops.. then her therapy doesn’t seem to be working too well?
No. I think youāre misunderstanding. First thing is that I donāt even count her as my love interest.
Okay, glad to hear that. Because you said you were eagerly awaiting her texts and you get excited to receive them, even if you didn’t like it:
Iām kinda enjoying talking with her though. Like sometimes Iām literally waiting for her texts. I donāt like this feeling. I donāt want to get attached to her.
But one thing is that yearning for is growing and I donāt like it. The more I try to resist it the more itās growing.
So I thought that even though you don’t like becoming attached to her, that it’s still happening…
Another thing is that I never even had a friend who smokes and drinks that much they lose their senses. So I get really worried like what if something happens to her?
Okay, so you are becoming attached to her as a friend then. What is she doing when she gets drunk? Is she in real danger, or she is just sitting at home, sending you “horny” texts? (you said she gets “horny drunk“)
Hmm really? Because itās been a while, I didnāt even had proper interaction with the woman. Including the latest one I only talked to her over the phone and texting.
Well, people fall in love even if they’ve never met the person irl (don’t forget, it happened to you too!) So the fact that you’ve never met her in person doesn’t mean anything. Btw, I thought that your first meeting, when you talked till 2 am, was in person. But it wasn’t?
I stopped comparing a while ago and I donāt see her as better or worse than me.
That’s good. But you can still have discernment, because if a girl drinks to the point of losing her senses, that’s not something you need to tolerate and accept. It’s okay to have some boundaries and some expectations.
And Iām not sure about pattern either because for pattern I need to actually go out and date someone donāt you think so? Iām getting bored of phone and texting.
As I said, we can build a strong attachment with someone based on only online/phone interaction. But I agree that if you want to date someone, it would be good to at least meet them in person once or a few times. And if the circumstances are such that you live in different cities, then LDR might be an option for a while. But even then, meeting regularly, e.g. once per month, would be better than not meeting for months on end.
Ohh no no I think Iām really craving a caring and empathic woman, Even in a romantic sense, If you remember I felt like I had a feeling that I want someone to baby me.
You crave for a caring and empathic woman, but when you meet one (e.g. the doctor), you let her go. So one part of you might be craving, but the other part of you is fearing it.
And itās not like they move on, But itās obvious thing that theyāre gonna spend more time with their partners and then talk to me about what they did. Because thatās what friends do?
Yes, sure, it’s normal they spend less time with you once they find a boyfriend. However, you said you feel abandoned when this happens. So I was referring to that sense of abandonment – like you had some emotional intimacy (appropriate for a friend), which you liked. And you miss it when it’s gone. But at the same time, you’re afraid of deeper emotional intimacy – which is appropriate for a romantic relationship. So, some emotional intimacy is fine, but a lot – not fine.
I do get attracted a women capable of emotional intimacy. But that part is true that I do fear the emotional intimacy.
Okay, I think this is what’s happening: you do get attracted to such women (although to be fair, it was the doctor who asked you on a date, not vice versa). But you eventually reject them. Because of your fear.
No the thing is when I fall in love, I get obsessed and all in, thatās why I always try to control myself not get attached. Like I said I need to learn slow and soft love. Not hard and fast.
You didn’t get obsessed about the doctor, did you? She even tried to “blackmail” you by telling you she is considering going back to her ex (who wanted them to try again), since you weren’t too passionate about her. And you weren’t too upset about it. You said do what you think is right. So it seems to me you didn’t get attached to the doctor (who was/is a woman capable of emotional intimacy).
But you did get attached to your LDR, who was a troubled girl, and whom you tried to change…
So it still seems to me that you get attached to a certain type of girl (who is lacking in some manner), but not to a different type – who is quite balanced and capable of emotional intimacy.
Lmao! Youāre making it sound spicy! But yeah Iām aware itās an escape. But with a ray of hope. What if during my journey I meet someone who is really able to touch my heart and able to break down the walls in my heart? Or is that too much hopeful thing to think?
I replied to that in my previous post… about who is the single person that can break down the walls around your heart…
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