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  • in reply to: My depressed girlfriend left me #418869
    Tee
    Participant

    Hi Adam,

    you’re welcome!

    I almost feel like I’m chasing a high and I would go through those lows just for that high again.

    Yes, she had an effect on you like a drug – caused you to feel high at times, but was destructive for you on the long run. Staying with her was ruining your life.

    You spoke about being down and daydreaming earlier, I spoke to my psych about a similar thing. I almost enjoy that feeling a bit as it is real pain and it not something I always experience. It’s like I force my mind to really feel the emotions and dig deep to bring it all up at times like this

    Okay, so are you saying that without her, you would feel flat, you wouldn’t really feel all that much? And so being on a roller-coaster with her, with emotional ups and downs, is still better for you than feeling dull? Being with her allows you to feel deeply?

    I was thinking today how the relationship changed overtime and how it got worse after each break up. It’s like I was punished for being comfortable around her and towards the end I wasn’t comfortable but I still didn’t want to loose her at any time during our relationship.

    You were punished for being honest with her, for telling her what you think she should change. She didn’t want to be told what she is doing wrong, or how she is hurting you. You were punished for that honesty, for speaking your mind.

    People don’t know what they have until they loose it, I think is the quote. I feel like I knew what I had and that I could loose it very easily.

    Well, what you had was a girl with untreated mental health issues. She stopped taking medicine and thought she could manage on her own, but she couldn’t. It resulted in those “horrible moods”, as you called it.

    As for knowing you could lose her – well yes, you knew you could lose her easily because she was breaking up with you frequently. She used that to control you.

    So you had a girl with untreated mental health issues, who basically blamed you for being upset about her moods, and wanted you to stay silent. And she managed.

    That’s the reality of your relationship, Adam. If I may be honest with you: you didn’t have much, and you didn’t want to lose the little that you had.

    Considering what some of my friends have said do you think it will come to a point where I am just holding onto nothing and talking about it too much?

    Well, you do see it in a distorted way, through rose-colored glasses. You believe you had a lot, whereas in reality, you didn’t. You didn’t lose much either, because if you read the above list, there was a lot of abuse in your relationship. You were getting only bread crumbs. But you were sticking to fantasy of how it might be some day, when she is healed.

    She wanted to enjoy life without being medicated as she felt it would disconnect her a bit, I think that was her main reason so I was supportive of that. I understood.

    But was she enjoying life? As far as I understood, she was as miserable as ever, frequently getting into those moods, accusing you of not being supportive enough. That’s not a good life, but suffering, both for her and for you.

    Everyone is telling me she will grow and mature then come to notice how committed and caring you really were. I think this in itself gives me hope and causes wishful thinking.

    I think people try to console you and so they say whatever they think might make you feel better. But telling you that she will grow and mature and you then can be happy together is feeding into your fantasy. It’s not helpful at all.

    First, it’s not true because we don’t know if she will grow and mature – she might spend many years trying to “heal herself” but not getting anywhere. You don’t want to keep fantasizing about a day when she will finally get better. You don’t want to make your happiness dependent on her – because that’s what you have been doing all this time, and this is the result. You don’t want to put your life on pause, waiting for her to get better.

    I told her myself I would do it all over again.

    And that’s a problem. That you would be willing to do it again, knowing how hurt you were this time round.

    Don’t get me wrong – I do understand you, Adam. I know how emotional wounds can make us blind and can make us work against our best interests. I know how bad we may want something that is bad for us, believing it will make us happy.

    But I think you’d need to work on the reasons of this attachment, this sticking to fantasy, rather than accepting reality. You said you felt alive while on an emotional roller coaster with her, so perhaps that’s something to look into? Perhaps sometimes you feel numb and out of touch with your feelings, and being with her allowed you to feel fully?

     

    in reply to: My depressed girlfriend left me #418860
    Tee
    Participant

    Hi Adam,

    I think if she reached out anytime soon I would have a discussion with her about why we can’t.

    Good! She might actually reach out, since so far you always wanted her back. But it’s great if you feel strong enough to tell her no now.

    What do you think if she reaches out in the distant future? That is a worry of mine. I feel as I would still have some attachment years from now.

    Hm… I wouldn’t worry about that right now. You don’t know what the future holds. I think the most important at this point is for you to learn your lessons from this experience: to be less vulnerable to emotional abuse and more able to recognize it if it starts happening in a potential new relationship.

    I hope you can move on from this and find yourself again. And be less prone to being manipulated and silenced like this. If you focus on that, you’ll grow as a person, and you’ll know what to do if she ever reaches out. As a general advice, if she isn’t in therapy (or stable mentally) and doesn’t have a job, she hasn’t move forward with her healing. And she would be in the same place, or worse, as now.

    But don’t linger on that possibility too much, because that’s again fantasizing about some future situation, where things might be better and where you might rekindle your relationship. Which is a part of that same daydreaming and clinging – which you need to heal!

    I never even had a thought of emotional abuse in my life until the week before the break up. I think I was experiencing it more and more as time went on. I felt like at the start when she was working and on her correct medication that the relationship was a lot better

    It’s quite possible that she was feeling better when she was on medication. But then something prompted her to try to wean off on her own, without going to therapy, which was a very unhealthy move. And it took a toll…

    But come to think of it we had break ups every 2 months. Either way we were splitting up but maybe it wasn’t until later when I actually experienced the manipulation etc.

    Or perhaps you became more sensitive to it, more able to recognize it? If I remember well, after the last breakup you didn’t feel like you were walking on egg shells around her. But now, in this last period, it became quite obvious to you. So perhaps you were deluding yourself and had a blind spot, which prevented you from noticing certain things? And at the same time, she probably got more and more demanding, and you more and more “obeying”, not to upset her.

    I know how to treat myself right and focus on myself it will come to me again soon enough. I have support for when I’m lonely and daydreaming. I am obviously upset but overall I’m coping. Still a bit of a shock to the system in saying that even after so many times.

    I am glad you have support, both of your friends and family, and that you know how to treat yourself well. Yes, you are doing the right steps! You can’t just expect to heal over night, it will take time. So be patient with yourself, but whatever you do, don’t allow to go too deep into daydreaming and beautifying the times when you were together.

    I will start writing some stuff down myself but any help would be greatly appreciated!

    Here it is, the list of “grievances” that you expressed about her. I did minimal edits, to make it as succinct as possible:

    1. Really did feel like it was all about her. A remote control car was a perfect analogy. She really did control everything including how I felt.
    2. I felt as if I couldn’t be myself and do what I want to do. She needed a caregiver 247 and when I wasn’t there for her it was again signs of me not loving her enough and her not getting what she was wanting.
    3. I feel quite attacked. My side was never considered and she would selfishly use me as a punching bag for her irrational behavior.
    4. I felt I was trapped and walking on egg shells, any word or action could set her off and cause me anxiety about what’s around the corner.
    5. It wasn’t a relationship that I wanted but I did tell myself and I push past this and deal with all the bad despite how it made me feel.
    6. The whole situation sucks. I’ve just woken up to what was happening and I also got over trying to fill a bottomless pit with my love.
    7. I lost myself in the process.
    8. I started seeing the signs of emotional abuse last week. This was definitely what I was experience as well as manipulation.
    9. I feel violated and taken advantage of.
    10. I was constantly told I wasn’t listening to her or understanding her needs. Yet I understood fully, however she didn’t understand mine.
    11. She would accuse me of not having my priorities right, expecting that she should be number 1 before anything else.
    12. I felt so trapped and alone the day before she left me. It’s because I was in the end.
    13. I was suffering in silence because of her mental instability.
    14. I felt as I couldn’t speak in fear of upsetting her or just being straight up rejected.
    15. I was relying on her for happiness in a lot of cases but I slowly started to feel alone towards the end.
    16. I lost myself trying to help her.
    17. I couldn’t constantly be responsible for how she was feeling. I never made her responsible for my feelings.
    18. It’s a shock to the system realizing I was being abused and manipulated a lot of the time.
    19. I felt the less I’d upset her the more I would be anxious on walking on egg shells. But when I spoke up I felt I was shut down and told I wasn’t listening to her.
    20. She took everything I said about her as an attack. All my comments about her getting work, her attitude etc were always taken personally and I was told not to bring it up. She use to say things along the lines of ‘I shouldn’t feel bad for feeling a certain way‘ , yet when I would say something similar it was unfair in her eyes. It was always a double standard.
    21. She didn’t want to change. She wanted to relationship to work around her and accommodate to her needs and wants.
    22. I am going to move on because that’s not what I want from a partner in the end. A relationship shouldn’t be that difficult. It was super toxic.
    23. She definitely used the break ups as a way to control me, whether she knew it or not. She knew I was readily available when she wanted.
    24. There was so many things, mostly innocent that triggered her. Whenever there was a disagreement her first reaction was to leave and it almost seemed like a power move to keep me on my toes.
    25. No time was any different, it honestly just got worse and spiraled out of control. All the false promises, still no work, still left, still unstable and the list goes on. Those few things should’ve been enough for me to leave.
    26. Leaving would’ve been a healthy reaction in the first place. It was all just a fantasy and in reality she was not good for me.
    27. I was trapped and got brought down by her disgusting moods.
    28. She blamed me for a lot. Made me feel worthless and like I was doing something wrong but it was her just taking anger out on me.
    29. She wanted me to know that I can’t pick and choose when I see her. I stopped asking for my own time after that.

    I hope it will help you stay on track!

    As for the childhood stuff, I am glad you had a good childhood and no bad memories. I don’t know why you would be susceptible like that, but there also could be external factors for our issues. It doesn’t necessarily have to do with our parents. You did mention once that you suffer from occasional anxiety, so perhaps there is something there to look at.

    Anyway, I wish you slow but steady progress and healing with his. Take care of yourself, be gentle on yourself. Post anytime!

     

    in reply to: Feels like Time is passing too fast #418851
    Tee
    Participant

    Hi SereneWolf,

    Hmm I see. Have you a found new doctor?

    I am on the lookout for other healing modalities, since the pain is fluctuating, it always comes back. So I need to find something that will give me a more lasting relief.

    But lately I feel like not doing anything, hopeless and I’m missing my cat too!

    I am sorry about that. It could be that the loss of your cat leads you to feeling more sensitive and down. And this can contribute to resorting to self-soothing tools, such as overeating. Because a lot of us use food to soothe ourselves, specially if the only nurturing we had in childhood was physical nurturing. If instead of being emotionally nurtured, we were given food whenever we were upset, that’s a perfect recipe for developing eating disorders later.

    My mum wouldn’t allow me to eat that much late lol because her first question on the phone is always, did you ate?

    Seems you mother was similar to mine: mostly interested in your physical nurturance (and physical well-being), but in terms of emotions, not really supportive.

    And yeah usually I do eat a lot in the evenings. During the day it’s okay but at evening I always eat a lot.

    Yes, that too is typical. I’ve just watched a video on binge eating, which explains that by the evening we have already been exposed to various stressors during the day, and our stress tolerance gets depleted. That’s why we have a greater need to soothe ourselves in the evening. Besides, that’s when most of the people come home from work and have the need to relax and unwind… and so eating too much becomes a part of that ritual.

    The title of the video is “How to stop binge eating“, by psychotherapist Kati Morton. She also explains what to do to help ourselves. One of her suggestions, in fact her first suggestion, is the same what you doctor friend told you: to eat at least 3-4 times a day, and to have snacks in between to prevent getting extremely hungry and then overeat.

    She has other useful tips too, like not restraining yourself and dieting because that’s only going to produce a counter-effect. Also to observe our inner voice, because the inner critic can get very loud when we overeat, or don’t eat as healthy as we would like to. I know from my own experience that I used to berate myself for my ED, and it was strengthening my inner critic, making me feel very bad about myself. And then I’d need something to soothe myself, and ended up eating again.. so it was a vicious circle.

    Yes. After getting back from the trip she said she thought about it a lot and she don’t think getting back together with her ex is a good idea. She did open up with me and told me maybe that idea of being alone is just scary for her and she’s just not used to it. And we talked about how I handled to live all by myself for years…

    After that she was like yeah I can try for sometime without being in a relationship.

    She seems like a pretty self-observant person, willing to learn and grow. She was honest with you and explored the reasons why she felt like going back to her ex. And she realized that it’s maybe because she is scared of being alone. But now, she’s realized that this is exactly what she needs… So a learning moment for her! I like her 🙂

    So did I just spread my disease into her?

    Hmmm, yeah, I mean you gave her a different perspective. And maybe she does need to find herself a little more, to become less needy and less craving for attention, for being the center of her partner’s universe. Because she did say things like that, if I remember well. If that’s the case, she’d need to learn how to be more self-sufficient. Which is what you’re an expert in 🙂

    You’re right how can I make myself become less triggered? I mean there is boundaries there somewhat. My father doesn’t disrespect me anymore otherwise he knows I’m not going to just listen to him silently.

    It’s good that you don’t tolerate his open criticism, so he isn’t even trying any more. I just wanted to ask you if there was a situation where he started criticizing you but you stopped him. But then I remembered that you mentioned that you did challenge him once on the phone and told him that if he cannot talk to you normally, better not talk at all, right? And then he hang up, but then called you back a few days later?

    I guess that was his lesson, and he learned that he can’t be openly rude with you. And I can imagine your mother talked to him too and convinced him to speak nicely to you… So I guess he is suppressing his need to judge you, but it’s still there in him, and comes out indirectly, in the form of those veiled remarks and comparisons with other people.

    Well, I guess you can’t really change that because as you said, he’s not going to work on himself and suddenly become transformed. So I guess if you want to keep contact with him, you’d need to be like teflon in those occasions and not let it stick.

    But for that, you’d need to be judgment-proof. Almost like bullet-proof. You’d need to let those arrows slide from you, like from a shield. Which means that you’d need to have your “armor” on whenever you talk to your father, and not let anything in. What is also super important is to diminish the voice of your inner critic, because your inner critic is like a Trojan horse – he opens the door and lets the arrows hit you. I am using the military analogy again, but perhaps it helps?

    Yes you remembered it well, I’m confused about it, because I don’t like when I need external validation, but external validation does kind of helps to believe in things…faster? I don’t know.

    It seems to me you’re disregarding the positive input from people, because you want to believe you’re not attractive enough. It’s like the impostor syndrome, when we believe that we cannot possibly be talented, that our success happened by chance and not by our merit. With this too – your inner critic is telling you you’re not good looking (or not muscular enough or whatever), and you rather believe him than the feedback you receive from people.

     

    in reply to: My depressed girlfriend left me #418849
    Tee
    Participant

    Hi Adam,

    No we are not staying friends. Like you mentioned I was there for her for 11 months straight.

    Good you’re not staying friends!

    She was only saying things like ‘I’d love to still have you in my life’ but I don’t think she actually meant it. If she did I would be.

    I think you shouldn’t agree to stay in her life even if she asks for it. Because it would inevitably lead to getting attached to her again and sucked into the relationship. So please, if she reaches out wanting to be friends, don’t accommodate her. Because you need to focus on yourself in this next phase. You can’t be sucked into caring about her all the time, which inevitably leads to emotional abuse and losing yourself.

    She really blamed me for a lot. It hurt to hear her say that in her final message. That she took it out on me because that’s what it really felt like at the time and I was so confused, I tore myself apart because I thought I was overthinking it. Made me feel worthless and like I was doing something wrong but it was her just taking anger out on me.

    Yeah, as you said, you ended up being her punching bag. That was clearly emotional abuse – blaming you and not taking responsibility for her own moods and actions.

    There was so many things, mostly innocent that triggered her. I wouldn’t even no where to start but whenever there was a disagreement her first reaction was to leave and it almost seemed like a power move to keep me on my toes.

    Yes, it seems she was using withdrawal and breakups as a means to control you, to make you more accommodating and more compliant with her needs.

    However the next day she told me she only said that to be petty. She wanted me to know that I can’t pick and choose when I see her. I stopped asking for my own time after that.

    Wow, that’s really controlling! It’s like saying “your needs don’t matter, I don’t care what you want. It only matters what I want. If I need you, you’ll get here, no discussion about that!” It’s almost like wanting to completely possess you. And you yielded, in fact. You stopped asking anything for yourself…

    I was like a parent, partner, caretaker, brother and a friend all in one. It was a full time job and it became so consuming and overwhelming.

    Yes, and she wanted to possess you completely, it seems. You were her ownership, not a free person with your own needs and wants.

    I am trying to focus on things that make me happy. Work and my house is a big priority for me. At the moment it’s hard to find things that make me happy

    I think the reason you don’t know what makes you happy is that you have been completely focused on her for a long time. Did you have hobbies in the past? Did you have things you enjoyed doing?

    You say your work and house are a priority for you. Is that something that makes you happy, or it’s more like tasks that need to be tended to?

    I’m glad I’m not walking on egg shells anymore. I had this realization last night when I was sitting and home and it just seemed so peaceful. No responsibility with how another person is feeling. No bad moods affecting my mood.

    Yes, it’s liberating. Cherish those moments free from emotional abuse. However, it can be that after a while you’ll start feeling bored and down a little bit… Do you have friends you can spend time with on the weekends? Something or someone to help you with those lonely moments that will inevitably creep up after a while?

    I felt loved as a child I think as a teenager, especially from girls I didn’t feel loved. More judged. I might have attachment issues because of this, I’m planning to speak to my psych about it too.

    So you felt judged by girls, not loved? It’s a bit like with her too – she judged you, you were never good enough.

    Have you felt judged, or otherwise not adequate, in your childhood too? For example, have you tried to please your mother, help her the best you can, but she was often frustrated and unhappy about something (not necessarily about you, but about life)?

    I am asking because that’s usually how codependency develops: if we are our parent’s helper and they rely on us sometimes even for emotional support. So we become “parentified”, i.e. a little bit like parents to them, which is role reversal. Our needs don’t get met, because we try to meet our parent’s needs. Anyway, I am not claiming anything since I don’t know much about your childhood. Just saying what can be the cause of codependent behavior once we grow up.

    Any tips of healing my inner child? It’s been a week now and I’m honestly feeling okay, I’m just digging up all the old things that I kept my mouth shut about. And there is a lot of things I regret not speaking up about but as discussed it wouldn’t have changed anything if I told her.

    That’s good that you looking back and revisiting your relationship, and noticing how and when you were poorly treated. Being aware of how we were mistreated is a key step in preventing abuse in the future.

    As for the inner child, well, for now I’d suggest to look within. Bring your focus on your own needs. Start first self-care first: basic physiological needs, lots of sleep and rest, healthy food and exercise. When we’re codependent, we neglect our own needs and focus totally on the other person. So now, bring that focus back on yourself. You have the right to care for yourself and be a little “selfish” about it.

    Also, when you start feeling lonely and perhaps start daydreaming about her again, have someone to reach out to to talk to and hang out with. Don’t stay alone with your sadness and longing. You can always post here if you start feeling down.

    Also, I recommend writing down on a piece of paper all of the abusive stuff she did and how you felt as a result. For example, walking on eggshells, being accused of not having her as your No1 priority, not being allowed to have needs of your own, being like on remote control, feeling like a punching bag, becoming a shell, etc etc. If you want, I can help you create that list based on what you’ve shared here.

    But basically, to have a list of “grievances” ready for those challenges moments when you start forgetting how bad it was and fantasizing of getting back together.

    So I think at this point what is important is to have a set of precautions in place not to fall into limerence and fantasizing. Surround yourself with supportive people. Go to therapy. Take care of yourself and your basic needs.

    And keep posting here as well, for as long as you need…

     

    in reply to: Feeling bad because of flirt #418848
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear David,

    what you did wasn’t a major thing (hugging a girl who flirted with you while you were half drunk). Specially since it made you realize that you’re not missing out on anything:

    This incident showed me that those things I thought I was missing, are not important for me as it is to have such a good person next to me.

    So basically this incident strengthened your commitment to your girlfriend and clarified any dilemmas you might have had. That’s the most important.

    I think you don’t need to tell it to your girlfriend though, because it might unnecessarily hurt her. You’ve already solved it with yourself – you are more committed to your girlfriend than ever and you’re not planning to do something like that again.

    Bringing it up with her however may make her doubt your love and commitment – which is the opposite of what you want. I think it might hurt her and cause unnecessarily friction and mistrust due to something that is already resolved in your mind and won’t be influencing your life any more.

    So my advice is not to tell her, but to focus on your wedding plans. Look towards the future, since this incident is already in the past and resolved.

    And lastly, I’d like to say: forgive yourself. You’re not a bad person for this little misstep. You are a good, conscientious person, who cares about his girlfriend a lot and doesn’t want to hurt her. Your intentions are pure. So keep that in mind, and forgive yourself. And focus on the future ahead!

    Wishing you best of luck!

    in reply to: My depressed girlfriend left me #418835
    Tee
    Participant

    Hi Adam,

    I am glad you’ve exchanged your belongings, and even though it was uncomfortable, you’re over it now. At least you don’t need to meet her again.

    She said she wants to be there for each other but doesn’t see how it would work without being together.

    I strongly suggest to forget about “staying friends” with her, because it’s not possible. You always end up sucked back into the relationship. Since you’re definitely not neutral towards each other and there are hurts and resentments, it wouldn’t be possible to stay friends. No need for it either. You don’t need to be there for her – you tried in the past 11 months, and this is how it ended. So the only feasible option is to go your separate ways. Wish her well (in your thoughts) and start focusing on your own life.

    She admitted to emotionally processing the break up before it happened and taking it out on me. Her ‘deal breaker’ was the difference between us. Because of the differences in us it wasn’t the relationship she wanted to have. Made me realise that it was all manipulation, especially this.

    Yes, it does seem like an excuse. Frankly, it seems to me that the biggest difference is that you wanted her to change, and she didn’t. That was the key stumbling block. If she wanted to work on her issues, to at least make one step in that direction, things would have been different. But like this, there was no chance.

    No she didn’t want to change. By her last message she wanted to relationship to work around her and accommodate to her needs and wants. I am starting to see it now more I think.

    Good. Glad you’re waking up to the fact that no matter how accommodating and careful you were around her, she always found something to be displeased with. You said she has been complaining recently that you’re not there for her 24/7, that she is not your priority etc. She behaved like a spoiled child a little, and blamed you for it…

    She definitely used the break ups as a way to control me, whether she knew it or not. She knew I was readily available when she wanted. When she would pull away I would always be following behind ready to give her my heart back but not this time.

    Yes, I remember last time she broke up with you you really wanted her back badly. You thought she sincerely wanted to change and work on her issues…. but this turned out to be wishful thinking. I hope you see that waiting for her to change, or nudging her, is futile. The only healthy way – which won’t be destructive for you – is to let her go.

    No time was any different, it honestly just got worse and spiraled out of control. All the false promises, still no work, still left, still unstable and the list goes on. Those few things should’ve been enough for me to leave. As you said leaving would’ve been a healthy reaction in the first place. It was all just a fantasy and in reality she was not good for me.

    Yes, I am glad you see it now.

    I was good enough though in the end she even said I did nothing wrong which I already knew. It was her not me. I was trapped and got brought down by her disgusting moods.

    Good that you realize that you didn’t do anything wrong. You’ve tried to support her. You even stopped asking her about her job. But she still found stuff to complain about. But that’s how we are when we have unresolved trauma – our unhappiness and frustration come from within. And no matter how someone can be kind to us, we still react, we still blame them and take out our frustration on them. Unfortunately, that’s what she was doing to you.

    It does hurt a lot and the pain of being alone I can handle but it’s just how she burned me that hurts. I trusted her completely again and it was broken again. It’s always the ones closest to you. I know what I deserve though.

    Yeah, you trusted her words, and they were misleading because she would promise things, but would never act on it. She said she wanted to heal and get better, but did nothing towards it. You even thought she was breaking up with you because she wanted to spare you from her moods. Whereas the reality was that she was too triggered to stay in the relationship and perhaps was even punishing you for mentioning anything that disturbed her.

    I’ll get back to being happy pretty quickly I think. I will find my passions again and the weekend boredom will soon vanish. It’s still quite fresh for me.

    Well, you don’t need to force yourself to get over her quickly. Take your time. It won’t be easy and it cannot be easy, because you were so attached to her. And the vulnerable part of you – who wanted to trust her blindly – is still in you. I think you’ll need to develop a relationship with that vulnerable part of you (your inner child) and be like a good parent to him.

    Up until now you served a little bit like a parent to your ex, because you do have a strong adult part in you, who is responsible, wants to plan for the future, focus on his life goals etc. You tried to parent her (soothe her, console her, encourage her), and at the same time nudge her to come up higher, to take responsibility for her life. You’ve been a good “parent” to her. The only problem is that that’s not what we should be to our romantic partner. However, you should be a good parent to your own inner child.

    So I encourage you to develop a relationship with your inner child – with the little boy you were x years ago. Talk to him, soothe him, tell him you love him and you are proud of him, and that he’s an amazing chap. Be a good parent to him. Does this make sense to you? Do you think you can get in touch with your inner child?

    And at the same time, go back to your hobbies, things that give you joy, which you might have neglected. That’s good both for your inner child and your adult self too. Do what makes you happy.

    I get so attached and clingy especially with exes and I don’t know why. I think it’s because now that person is gone all the memories we shared feel like they are gone as well.

    I do have a deep longing for love and maybe it’s related to my inner child.

    Yeah, I think your inner child needs to feel loved. Perhaps in your childhood you didn’t feel loved, or you didn’t feel good enough to feel loved, and that’s what’s making you vulnerable now? Once you can give love to your inner child, the inner pain and longing will lessen, and you’ll be less attracted to people who can’t really love you.

    I know one day I will find someone but in the meantime I will try focus on loving myself again.

    Very well said. You do need to learn to love yourself again, and as a part of that task, love your inner child too. I think if you do that, your healing will be complete.

     

    in reply to: Diplomcay, is it for all? #418827
    Tee
    Participant

    Hi Tom,

    This is where I feel we need to separate family from peers. As Roberta rightly said, we cannot choose our family.

    It is true that we cannot choose our family. However, we can still separate ourselves, or not be completely enmeshed and dependent on them, if possible. Roberta gave some great examples of how you can still interact with problematic family members, and yet make it more on your terms, with conditions that are more acceptable to you, so you don’t get too upset and perhaps overreact.

    wherein your family members/member is constantly making you late

    Based on how you phrased it, this seems like a situation where you go somewhere together with this family member, and they are either driving you to the location, or you are the driver but feel obliged to wait for them, which results in being late to the appointment. If that’s the case, and you’ve already talked to them but to no avail, perhaps you can try something different. For example, if you are driving, you can tell them to be on time or you’ll leave without them (and you mean it). Or if they are driving, you can find an alternative mode of transportation, so you don’t dependent on them.

    My point is: the less dependent you are on the person, i.e. the more you can find alternatives for interacting, which make you less dependent on them – the less helpless you’ll feel, and therefore, less triggered too.

     

    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Dafne,

    thank you for your kind words.

    I understand you feel lonely and would like to have a man in your life. But not any man. You yourself said you want a decent, honest man, who wants a committed relationship, hopefully marriage, and whose intention is not to take advantage of you. You want him to see you as a person and appreciate you. You don’t want him to use you for selfish reasons, such as sex or care-taking, help in the household and such.

    I think the first thing would be to tell yourself that you deserve such a man. That you don’t need to settle for bread crumbs. For men who will use you and discard you. You need to have self-respect, so that men will respect you too. If you chase lousy men, then good, solid men won’t be able to find you. That’s the “cab light” principle that Anna Runkle was talking about in the video I sent you.

    Honestly, I think this man is in the “lousy” category, since he is interested in sex only. I am glad you didn’t give in to his demands and that you kept your boundaries. So you did show self-respect, which is good!

    I understand you want to try once again, even though I believe it’s not a good idea. But if you contact him, don’t allow by any means to be manipulated into going to his apartment first. If he suggests that, refuse. For that, you can use the wording I already gave you.

    As for the message you want to send him now, you can say something like “Hey [his name], how have you been? You mentioned last time that you’re interested in going for a walk or a yoga class with me. Do you have time for that this week? Let me know…”

    I’ll try to follow the coach you recommend me and heal my heart first.

    That’s a good decision, and the best path if you want to find true love. It won’t be quick though, because healing is a process. But so is finding a good man. However, if you have self-respect and are able to keep your standards, I am sure such a man will show up.

    I think that for starters you may want to write down on a piece of paper what exactly you want from a man. That’s what Anna Runkle suggests too in her dating course. As an example, you can write something like I wrote above:

    “I want a decent, honest man, who wants a committed relationship, hopefully marriage, and whose intention is not to take advantage of me. I want him to see me as a person and appreciate me. I don’t want him to use me for selfish reasons, such as sex or care-taking or help in the household.”

    Write down your own version of this, and keep it as a reminder. Don’t settle for less than someone who respects you.

    Dear Dafne, I am very glad I helped you clarify some of the confusion and keep a positive attitude. I am rooting for you and am here, if you need help.

    Let me know how he responded to the text, if you choose to send it…

     

    Tee
    Participant

    Dear FurryRat,

    Tee: Nepotism as in, I didn’t earn it. I thought I did, but he told me he offered me the job as a favor to me.

    I see. That’s interesting. Have you felt a strange vibe from him – that he gave you the job because of your looks maybe? Because if not, it could be that he liked your personality (self-confidence, wit), and he thought this was more important for the company on the long run than the credentials some of the other candidates had. I don’t know, just a thought…

    in reply to: how to deal with emotions? #418796
    Tee
    Participant

    Hi Peter,

    I wonder if I suffered from chronic physical pain what my relationship to hope might be. The word courage pops into mind, as it takes a kind of courage to hope skillfully. I admire your courage Tee.

    thank you Peter. I don’t think of myself as courageous, but when you’re faced with chronic pain, you have to find ways to cope and tell yourself that things will be better. Because in the short periods when I stopped believing it, I realized it’s impossible to live like that. So hope is almost as a survival/coping mechanism. In a positive sense.

    I’m not that literate when it comes to Greek methodology, but I’ve just checked a few basic things about Pandora’s box. And it says that the word “elpis” can be translated not only as “hope”, but also as “expectation”. And if it means expectation, then I can imagine how destructive it can be. I think it’s in the same category as false hope and wishful thinking.

    I don’t know why it remained in the box and what’s the meaning of it, but anyway, I think it’s good to distinguish between the false hope/expectation/attachment vs. the real hope of life renewing itself and healing. I think the latter is a good hope…

     

    in reply to: Does he like me? #418795
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Katrine,

    yes, hang in there, and if you can, start therapy, because I am sure it will help.

    I too hope he gets at least 2 days off…

    in reply to: how to deal with emotions? #418786
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Helcat,

    thank you for your kind and encouraging words! Glad to have you back on the forum! 🙂

     

    Dear Brandy,

    thank you for the recommendation about the fascia, I’ll look into it.

     

    As for hope, yeah, it would be hard for me to live without hope. Because it can take the person to a dark place. So hope is a paramount for me…

     

    in reply to: My depressed girlfriend left me #418785
    Tee
    Participant

    Hi Adam,

    I was always myself around her at first but the more she became unstable and voice concerns the more I would feel like I wasn’t enough.

    Yes, you started out as being yourself, but she couldn’t tolerate it and would get offended for small things (e.g. you telling her she’s not good at finding directions). So you started watching what you say and not being yourself around her.

    Last time before she broke up with you, she accused you of cheating, which wasn’t true and was completely irrational:

    She started saying she had a feeling that I was cheating on her even though I wasn’t. She said she knew I wasn’t but it was a feeling and she didn’t know why her head was telling her that.

    She was also getting “thoughts of leaving”, and she said she couldn’t fight those thoughts. She could have done something about those thoughts – by seeking therapy for example. But she didn’t want to. She had an excuse why she doesn’t want therapy. So she acted like a victim of her irrational thoughts and feelings – as if she couldn’t do anything about it. Well, she could have done. But she chose not to.

    What I am trying to say is that you cannot expect to have a meaningful relationship with a mentally unstable person, who just gets weird thoughts and feelings, and doesn’t want to seek professional help. And basically tortures you with those feelings: accuses you of cheating on her, of not being her priority, of not being there for her 24/7, etc etc.

    You became the victim of her moods, and chose to expose yourself to those moods. Hoping she would change – although she didn’t show any intention to change. She might have said she wanted to change, but those were just empty words. In reality, she hasn’t done anything in the past 11 months since you’ve known her to seek help.

    I am sorry you cannot see this, Adam. That this is a hopeless situation. She isn’t interested in healing at this point. And you are a collateral victim of her mental illness. You are still hoping for something that won’t happen any time soon. And in the meanwhile, you are losing yourself, you are becoming a shell of a person. You are exposing yourself to emotional abuse.

    I couldn’t leave because I had so much faith and trust that she would stick it out and push through those hard times, I can’t understand why she didn’t. Why she had to leave makes no sense to me still.

    How can she push through if she doesn’t want to seek therapy? She is stuck in trauma and it doesn’t just go away from itself. Why doesn’t she want therapy? Probably because she doesn’t want to truly take responsibility for her life. She wants to stay the victim. You are a nice addition, because you take off the pressure and soothe her when she is feeling down. Which is most of the time. So you are there as her releasing valve and a punching bag, as you said. You are a function for her, not an individual with your own needs and wants.

    Why she had to leave makes no sense to me still.

    Because that’s her go-to reaction: she leaves whenever she is triggered. Whenever she feels you’re not perfectly caring and understanding. Whenever you raise a concern about her. And by now she’s learned that you always want her back, and you always become even less demanding and more careful not to upset her. So maybe she is using breakups as a tactics to control you. I don’t know. But even if she doesn’t, that’s the net effect: after each breakup you become more careful how you behave around her, what you say, you walk on egg shells…

    So you think that we only reconciled in the past because I reached out?

    Possibly. But maybe she knew you would reach out because you always do. But what’s important is that after you reconcile, nothing changes. Her moodiness continues, and you are there as a punching bag. And you always believe that this time, things would change. But that’s wishful thinking, that’s deluding yourself. Because she doesn’t take any steps to help herself. So it cannot be different than the last time.

    it makes me think we will still rekindle and she will want to, so I’m not sure what to do or think.

    Yes, unfortunately you still can’t see how destructive this relationship is for you. She might reach out, tell you some promising words, and then continue business-as-usual.

    In an ideal situation I wouldn’t be loosing myself your right.

    Yes, in a healthy relationship you don’t lose yourself. In a toxic one you do.

    It hurts a lot loosing her because I really feel like she was the one and that it was a shared vision.

    Well, she may have told you that she’d want to spend her life with you. But again, those were just empty words, because in  reality, she didn’t do anything to work towards that “shared vision.” Theory and nice promises are one thing, but reality, which is repeating itself again and again, is another.

    In her eyes I think she was bringing me down and that’s why she left. But that sounds like an excuse if that’s the reason.

    You see it well. She didn’t leave because she wanted to protect you. She left because she was upset with you, you weren’t “good enough” for her. As I said, she might be even using breakups to manipulate you and make you even more “meek”. I am not sure about that, but nevertheless, that’s the end result of each of your breakup.

    Yeh there is definitely a deep longing and it’s difficult to let go of it. I still think about reaching out and the what’s ifs.

    I understand… because the pain of being without her is too big. And even if this relationship is destructive and makes you lose yourself, and suffer, you’d still rather be with her than alone. Even if the price is so high…

    I just wanted to find myself with her and I thought I really could’ve. Maybe she didn’t feel the same.

    We can’t find ourselves while being focused exclusively on the other person. In order to find ourselves, we need to look within, find things that we love and do them… Just as an example, you said you feel bored on the weekends, and I think it’s because you don’t have anything to do when you’re not with her. It could be that you don’t have hobbies, things that you enjoy doing – separately of her?

    If you want to have a fulfilled life, you’d need to find yourself as an independent and separate person from her. Because that’s who you are at your core. Only when we find ourselves, and are happy with who we are, can we form healthy relationships with others.

    I notice two parts in you, Adam: one is your rational self, who sees things clearly and sees that you were abused. And the other part is emotional and clingy, who deludes himself that it will be better next time and wants to try again. This clingy part overwrites your reason, forgets about the bad things that happened and latches onto false hope.

    I think this other part is your inner child, who desperately needs to be loved and more importantly, seeks love from emotionally unavailable people. I think you’d need to work on your inner child, so you can be free from this kind of dependence.

     

    in reply to: Crushed and hopeless. #418770
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Anna,

    you are welcome, I am glad it helped.

    I think this year for me is about releasing attachments and learning to count on myself more, giving myself self-love, getting rid of naivety about how people treat each other.

    Those are all great goals. You definitely need to love and respect yourself more, because self-esteem is what gets damaged in a relationship with a narcissist. It could be that in the relationship with him you were naive, and when things seemed too good to be true – you believed they are true nevertheless? I mean, that’s how love bombing looks like: it’s the exaggerated love and attention, almost too good to be true. But we want to believe it’s true… so we don’t see it as a warning sign.

    When it comes to the toxic relationship, I still think I might have done things differently. Though I guess no one is a saint when being constantly hurt. I know I became too much dependent on him.

    Sure, it takes two to tango. However, if someone is a narcissist, or a toxic person in general, they don’t want to take responsibility for their part in the relationship. They always blame the other person. You on the other hand were open to grow and change – you were willing to take responsibility for your part of the equation. I believe that’s the fundamental difference between you and him, between a toxic and a non-toxic person.

    Your greatest mistake, I believe, is not realizing sooner that he is a narcissist and that he is manipulating you. You tried to get some empathy from him, and of course, it never happened. And when you say you became too dependent on him, I guess you became dependent on his opinion of you, right?

    As for my friendships, I feel because of the break-up I became too needy and they didn’t let me know that maybe I’m overwhelming them until it led to a conflict.

    I see… you desperately needed and perhaps even demanded their help, and when they couldn’t support you in that capacity there was a conflict. Okay, I get it. In this case, perhaps it would make sense to apologize for being so needy and for demanding too much from them?

    I feel very overwhelmed with those situations, plus looking for a job and taking part in job interviews.

    Try to forgive yourself about how you treated your friends. You were an emotionally battered woman, who needed help. And  perhaps you were too demanding in getting their help. But now you’re coming out of it and seeing things more clearly. So you can forgive yourself and also apologize to them. I am sure they will understand.

    Be very gentle with yourself. Have a lot of self-compassion. That’s what you need the most now…

    I wish you luck with finding a decent job soon. Repeat to yourself that you are lovable and worthy (if you’re not already doing that). It’s good you’re doing meditation and reiki, as part of your self-care routine.

     

    in reply to: how to deal with emotions? #418767
    Tee
    Participant

    Hi Peter,

    The first time I came across the passage I wondered what he could mean to hope for the wrong thing. Isn’t hope a good thing?

    In hindsight on my experience hope I think I can say that more often than not hope for the wrong thing as it only amplified what it was that I wished to avoid.

    Yes, we can hope for the wrong  thing, so it can be counterproductive. My hope is related to physical health actually: hope not to be in chronic physical pain till the rest of my life. And yes, fear of that very scenario. So I can resonate with Vaclav Havel’s definition of hope: Hope is a dimension of the soul, an orientation of the spirit, an orientation of the heart. It transcends the world that is immediately experienced and is anchored somewhere beyond its horizon. It is not the conviction that something will turn out well, but the certainty that something makes sense regardless of how it turns out.

    I have a hard time accepting that chronic physical pain makes sense and that it brings any good to anyone – at least not on the long run. I am all for learning our lessons, even through pain and suffering, and transcending ourselves and our limitations. But constant and relentless physical pain (and suffering that it produces) is something that doesn’t make sense to me. Therefore, I hope that it is not what waits ahead. Luckily, I am not in constant physical pain, but it comes and goes. I’ve learned to appreciate when it lessens. So I hope that it will be manageable and not a constant suffering.

    I also know that pain and suffering are not the same. I am learning not to associate physical pain with the thought that “I am doomed, this will never end.” Because a thought like that causes even greater suffering.

    As for Thomas Merton’s definition of hope, it sounds more related to the attachment to the results of our work. He says we shouldn’t be attached, if I understood well, and still keep doing that what we feel is right and valuable. I do agree with him fully…

     

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