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June 14, 2023 at 2:31 am in reply to: Understanding someone who's recently divorced and not ready #420070TeeParticipant
Dear Dafne,
sorry to hear you’ve got flu š Wish you a speedy recovery!
I am fine more or less, able to manage my health issues at the moment, so it’s okay.
I am glad you’ve decided to let that man go. And also, that you agree that it’s a waste of time to try to change the man and wait for him to become the person we want them to be.
Thatās very true. It is not too much to ask but for some reason, men decide not to and go the easy way. Also why is it that the same guy treats one woman like a queen and the other like dirt. And ironically the one who is treating him well gets the bad treatment in return. Why is that?
I think only a lousy guy treats a woman like dirt. There are also guys who treat a woman like a queen in the beginning, but later start devaluing and disrespecting them. Narcissistic people typically do that: first they love bomb you, and then, once you get caught in their web, they start mistreating you and basically, treating you like dirt.
Also, some people (not only men, but women too) are very selfish – they are all about their own needs and wants. They don’t care about their partner. If the partner allows it, they will treat them with no respect and no consideration for their needs. If the woman doesn’t respect herself enough, she will stay in such a humiliating relationship, whereas another woman wouldn’t stay because she respects herself more.
Actually the Internet is full of advice for women like: be hard to get, not talking about our intentions early on, never chase, never call first, be easy going, do not question him too much. It is all about not scaring him away.
Yeah, I don’t like such advice, because it’s all about playing games and trying to trick the guy, instead of being honest and authentic. I think it’s aimed at women who are insecure and feel bad about themselves, so they are afraid to be authentic. Because they fear there is something wrong with them.
They say that it is in manās nature to chase the woman and she should ālean backā and wait. Iām not sure what kind of men will be attracted by that approach nowadays (potentially players that like the game of chasing).
There is some truth in it in the sense that if the guy is interested, he will show it to you. He won’t avoid you, ghost you, not contact you. So if the guy isn’t interested, or he stops being interested after you told him what you want from a relationship, then there is no point in chasing him. If he were interested, he wouldn’t need to be chased.
The goal is to behave as naturally as possible, rather than play games, because you want a relationship where you can be yourself, and not have to pretend and play games all the time. If you pretend to be someone you’re not, it will attract wrong people and it can’t be good for the relationship on the long run. So it’s better if you are honest, even if it takes more time to find the proper guy.
What you can work on is to gain more self-confidence and self-respect. That will enable you to be more authentic and less afraid of expressing your true self. And authenticity is a precondition for a healthy long-term relationship.
So my advice is: less games and more authenticity. If you don’t like some features of your current self, you can work on improving yourself, on valuing yourself more. That will make you feel better about yourself and even be more attractive to men too. Because yes, men are attracted to women who are confident and who respect themselves.
I mean, good men won’t feel endangered by your self-confidence. They will cherish it. Whereas bad men will feel threatened by your self-confidence and will try to put you down. Or they will seek weak women, with no self-confidence, whom they will try to exploit.
So no matter how you look at it, you would need to develop self-confidence, self-love and self-respect. That’s the only sure way to find a good, decent man. Without those main qualities, you’ll be attracting unsuitable men, who won’t appreciate you.
More and more relationships start now with sex or having kids first and then getting to know the person.
That’s very unfortunate: to have a child with someone you hardly know and who is a bad match. It’s not good for the child either. I think it’s a bad model and not something to follow.
My friend adviced to travel to another country like Ireland, Iran, India, Turkey, Middle East even but it is not possible for me at the moment.
Do you think it is a good idea? Could those countries be a better choice for old school women to find old soul men?
I wouldn’t go to Middle East to find a good man, because those countries aren’t really famous for women’s rights. If you want to be respected as a woman, don’t go to places where women are seen as inferior.
How about trying Christian dating sites? I’ve just googled it, there is a plenty of such websites. You are a religious person, right? Maybe you can join some voluntary activities organized by your Church, and see if there are decent men there? I mean, being religious isn’t a guarantee that someone is a decent man, but still, perhaps he wouldn’t be all about sex but would show more respect?
TeeParticipantDear Katrine,
I havenāt been anxious because he wasnāt posting any stories about going out but yesterday he did. He was drinking with a woman and the caption was in his own language so I dont understand and that has made me really anxious.
Maybe you can use the translate function? It doesn’t have to mean anything – she could be even his boss in Portugal?
We are gonna talk tomorrow if I can get my whatsApp working again.
I hope you can finally talk to him and see how things stand, and if you can visit him in Portugal etc.
He and her have been getting drunk at work, and making out at work in front of guests. He got mad and quit and then she quit because he quit leaving her with her parents to pay her rent. Apparently It was a bit dramatic.
Wow, that’s unprofessional behavior! And then he got mad for being warned about it, right? Well, I am not sorry about him… I didn’t quite understand why she quit though – not out of solidarity, but because of finances?
People even cried at work on Sunday because thereās too much work and not enough staff and the new manager wont do anything about It because saving money makes him look good.
Oh I am sorry about that, Katrine. I know how much you liked working at the cafe, and you’re now in charge of it, right? But if there is not enough stuff and you start feeling burnout, perhaps you too should consider looking for something else. Have you thought about that?
TeeParticipantDear Caroline,
She did seem distant but I am not sure if offended.. Maybe a bit afraid to offend me, I think. She once joked (as she is used do) and tried to make it seem innocent. Honestly I donāt know what to think.. She wanted to go shopping together but I said I donāt want to. She was surprised but did not say anything. But she was silent.
Some people use silent treatment when they are offended. Did her stance seem like silent treatment? Like she is punishing you for expressing discontent?
No, I havent been mocking her. Some time ago when I said she was rude she said something like āYou should learn to talk backā.. But I donāt want to. I cannot really be like that, and I also donāt want to have such relationship where we behave as if we were 8 year old siblings.
Yeah, that’s totally understandable. Mocking and teasing the person you like, like in elementary school. I mean, some playful teasing is okay, but you said she has this mocking attitude and treats you like you’re inferior. If she doesn’t really respect you, that’s a big problem.
Perhaps she is afraid to show vulnerability, so the only way to connect is via mocking and playing tough. But that’s not a healthy relationship. She would need to be willing to change that.
That would mean I will be more..separate from her. Most things we do is what she wants to do. Even the fact we sit at home, donāt go to restaurants, cinema itās because she doesnāt like it. So if I want to do things I like it means we will be separate from each other more often. I feel like there is no ME in this relationship. I became HER. We play board games, listen to her favorite music (not anymore but we used to, not long ago).
So if you would to assert yourself and say “I want to go to watch this movie – do you want to come?”, what do you think her reaction would be? To mock you for your choice of movie and shut down the idea?
I think this is my biggest problem. I do not have autonomy. I become the other person. I think I am a bit scaredā¦of not being someone else, of being my own. I donāt know if this makes sense but I feel like this is what is happening here. I think being separate will break us up because I need her approval, I am scared of doing something she doesnāt like, of having life that she does not like, approve, does not want to go into. I prefer becoming someone else than risking her not approving my hobbies, lifestyle etc.
Okay, so you haven’t really tried to assert yourself and express your own preferences (about hobbies, lifestyle, music etc), for fear of rejection? Or you did express yourself but were mocked, and so you stopped?
This is exactly what she does, probably. Just the sound of whatever I am saying, the question mark at the end, me sounding not sure ā makes her automatically disagreeing because my idea does not sound good. Because I say it with doubt already. Itās how I communicate. Not being sure about everything.
Right. You’re communicating uncertainty probably because you’re afraid of being criticized and/or rejected. If so, it’s like a preventive action: you seem uncertain maybe even when you actually know what you want, but are afraid to express it. Does this ring true?
I will be practicing this so that I would stop asking her all the time and seeking approval.
Yes, try expressing your preference without fear. If you can’t, then you’d need to work on this fear of rejection. You may ask yourself: what if she doesn’t approve my choice/my preference? What does it say about me? Maybe you have a false belief about yourself that if she doesn’t approve your preference, you are bad or unworthy, or something to that effect. So perhaps a false belief is running the show is preventing you from asserting yourself.
Tee, do you think it can be automatic reaction? As I see it, I seem like a child to her, unsure, with doubts and she automatically shuts down my silly ideas. Or does she command me. Or is it both.
I can’t tell as of yet, Caroline. The way she is treating you is not right, that’s for sure. I don’t know if she is willing to change once you assert yourself. But what would need to happen first is that you assert yourself. That you’re not afraid to express your opinion or your preferences. And to set some boundaries about how you want to be communicated with.
If she is willing to change her attitude and start showing you more respect, then good. If she is giving you silent treatment and becomes more distant and offended, that’s not a good sign. But you’d need to first have respect for yourself, and one of the ways to do it is start expressing your preferences without fear.
So maybe you can practice expressing your preferences assertively. You can practice in front of the mirror. Pick one preference, e.g. “I like xy performer”, or “I like this type of music.” And see how it feels to say it out loud, imagining that you’re telling it to her.
If it feels scary, it’s your inner child who is scared. In that case, the first thing – before even trying to assert yourself – is to strengthen your adult self. You can list all of your adult achievements (e.g. you have a job, you earn salary, you have various responsibilities at your work place, you’re renting your own flat, you have various skills and talents, etc). So write down your strengths and skills on a piece of paper, and use that to boost your adult self.
Does this sound doable?
TeeParticipantHi Adam,
I think the hardest thing for me is just accepting that in the end she didnāt care.
Well, yeah, in a way, she didn’t care enough to seek therapy for example. Because therapy might have helped her, and in turn, might have helped your relationship too. But you know what – people with trauma sometimes have wounds that they don’t want to look at. It could be that her refusal of therapy and insisting that she’d heal on her own is a form of escape – not wanting to dig deep enough and face those wounds.
What I am trying to say is that her breaking up with you (and not seeking therapy) might have been caused by her fear of facing her pain, not by her not caring enough about you. It’s not about you, it’s probably about her own escapism and fear to face herself.
I am finding it hard to fully move on. Itās been 5 weeks and I feel myself still holding onto things. I am catch myself still wanting to check her socials and even detour past her place at times, Iām not sure why.
Well, 5 weeks is not much time. It’s still fresh and raw. It doesn’t help that you live close by though. That’s making it tougher for you. I’d say the best would be to move, but then again, you just bought a house there, right? You can’t really move to a different place, right?
I just found it really odd that she got the exact same jumper as the one she returned, I obviously left an impression on her in someway.
So it was your jumper that she was wearing, and she returned it to you when you broke up? Perhaps she really likes that type of jumper and that’s why she bought the same typeā¦
I think youāre right, she never seemed open to therapy. She did mention if things get really bad we would do couple therapy but she told me she knows we can always work things out.
Yeah, and you “worked it out” by her breaking up and then reconciling on her terms… It seems like manipulation, Adam. You never worked out anything, except you becoming more and more tolerant of her moods and her bad treatment of you.
She knows she needs therapy she is just avoiding it. She admitted after our last break up that it was completely reasonable and she does need it.
Sounds like she agreed it’s a reasonable thing to do, because that’s what you wanted to hear. But she never really sought therapy – instead, whenever she got upset, she simply broke up with you. That was easier than therapy. Which means she wasn’t willing to work on herself or change anything about herself.
The bad break ups started happening before she reduced her medication. Probably due to the trauma and her reading into everything.
Oh I see. So she was quick to break up even when still on medication. It seems that’s her go-to defense mechanism: to escape, to flee the uncomfortable situation. It’s one of the 3 typical trauma responses: fight-flight-freeze. Hers seems to be to flee.
I don’t know if later she started using it to manipulate you, but in any case, it seems that rather than facing herself, she rather flees the relationship, because for her, that’s a “safer” (less painful) option.
In saying that reducing her medication definitely caused problems towards the end. It was always revolving around her withdrawals. My psych found it odd that itās still occurring saying she shouldnāt be getting withdrawals every 2 weeks, might just be another cop out.
I don’t know anything about withdrawing from an antidepressants, and what the process looks like, but I am sure that doing it on your own, without professional help, is hard, if not impossible. I mean, there is a reason why she was on antidepressants – most likely because she wasn’t able to deal with her emotional states and regulate herself. If she hasn’t resolved her trauma, I don’t see a reason why she would be able to get off medication just like that. Basically to pull herself by her own bootstraps. That’s not how healing works.
I did trust that she would heal on her own.
Yes, you wanted to trust her, because she told you to trust her, didn’t she? You would suggest therapy from time to time, but I guess she convinced you she doesn’t need therapy and that she had a bad experience with therapy. She was certain she’d manage on her own – she even gave you the time frame of approx. 6 months to get off medication. So I guess she sounded very convincing and sure that she can do it alone, and so you trusted her?
I was very accepting of her moods as well. But I did show resistance because it started affecting me and I think she realised I was acting different. Only she didnāt want to accept that it was due to her āhealing processā.
Yeah, that was unfair of her. Because she denied any responsibility for her moods, but rather blamed you for being insensitive,Ā right?
I actually told her myself that I donāt say much to her because I know she is easily triggered especially while reducing medication. I also told her that she will do it all herself but I will be there the whole way. So I guess I was saying āIāll take whatever you throw at me because I trust you are going to heal so in the meantime focus on yourself and treat me however you feelā. It honestly seemed like thatās what I was trying to tell her and I was okay with it.
Yeah, you really wanted to believe that she’d heal on her own. And also, you made a vow to yourself that you’d stick by her side as long as necessary (in part to prove that you’re a good and worthy partner). It’s almost like you believed it’s a storm and you need to hunker down till it passes. Except in this case, she was the source of the storm, and she wasn’t really doing anything to lessen it, on the contrary, she let things loose.
Yes I definitely adore the spontaneity. At first we hit it off however the next day she told me she canāt talk and needs to figure herself outā¦ foreshadowing early on.
Maybe she was aware of how difficult she is in relationships. Maybe she was also aware of her tendency to escape when things get tough.
I left my number and said msg me anytime! She ended up texting me a few weeks later and I knew she would, that gut feeling was there. Again we hit it off and basically hung out the next day and the rest is history. So she almost chased me at first, she instigated the first date etc and I loved that. I feel like she got more uptight and judgemental of me as time went on.
Yeah, she seems to have dropped her guard for a while in the beginning and wanted to give it a try. But then soon enough her trauma got the best of her, and she just started reacting from her wounds. And she started blaming you, breaking up with you etc.
They were basically her exact words Tee. She didnt feel like she was her true self when she was on medication and she wanted to be off them. She wanted off them because she didnāt want to live her life on medication and she wanted to feel and enjoy things not on any medication basically.
Yeah, I get where she is coming from, but as I said, there is a reason why she was on medication. If she isn’t able to function normally without medication, then being off medication isn’t something to aim for, specially if she refuses therapy.
And let me just also note that the way she was with you a lot of the times – moody, emotionally abusive, not willing to accept responsibility for her behavior – that’s not her true self either. That’s her wounded self. So unfortunately she didn’t come closer to her true self in this “healing” attempt.
I think she thought something was wrong with her. She asked me many times if I thought something was wrong with her too.
Well, something was wrong with her in the sense that she was hurt and her emotions were overwhelming. She couldn’t emotionally regulate herself. But there is nothing wrong with her deep down, at the core.
A lot of traumatized children believe that there is something fundamentally wrong with them, that they are inherently faulty. I believed that too. Because my mother criticized me all the time, so I believed that I must be defective to my core. That was a false belief, the one that caused me great pain and suffering. But eventually, I’ve managed to heal it, and therapy helped me a lot (though it was a long process).
Perhaps she had a similar false belief ā that something is fundamentally wrong with her. A good therapy would have helped her, but she was afraid of it, it seems.
I really did fall in love with her in the beginning and maybe thatās all it is. I loved her at the start but eventually there wasnāt much to love. Although I still did love her.
It seems you fell in love with a laid back version of her. Which wasn’t her true self, or rather, it wasn’t the personality that she could sustain, because her trauma would hijack her personality. And I guess that’s what you saw later in the relationship: her traumatized self hijacking and consuming the relationship.
You kept loving her, because you wanted to believe that your love will help her heal. But the truth is that she didn’t really want to heal. Because true healing means facing ourselves and our emotional wounds. So to be more precise, she didn’t really want to do the work necessary for healing. And that’s why you couldn’t help her either.
She really left a mark on me and I feel like I want to chase that high again that we had on the beginning. Whether itās with her or another person I think thatās what I want to feel at the moment but I know eventually good things will come.
It’s good to know what you are craving: the high of meeting someone and believing that they are “the one”. When there is a hole inside of us, we have that deep longing for someone ā someone with whom we’ll finally feel fulfilled. You said you’ve always longed for a partner, ever since you were a teen. It could be that you’ve longed for someone with whom you can feel that sense of bliss and oneness, which would finally fill the hole. Does this ring true? Do you feel there is a hole inside of you that needs to be filled?
I have a psych appointment tomorrow Iāll let you know how it goes!
Oh good, I am looking forward to it!
TeeParticipantDear Katrine,
I am glad you had a good time on your holidays, going out and socializing a lot. It seems you’re not so anxious about him at the moment?
Sorry to hear about the wave of quitting at your work place. Is that usual for the summer season that a lot of old employees quit, because they don’t want to work during the summer?
What happened to the previous guy – was there an incident and that’s why he quit so dramatically?
TeeParticipantDear Emily,
I’ve realized that you’ve written before, in 2019 and 2021. What you’ve described back then are very difficult circumstances in your childhood, where you were exposed to quite severe emotional abuse and neglect by your parents, and other people too. I am sorry all of that happened to you š
You did report in 2021 that you managed to get some therapy: I was put in intensive therapy for CPTSD and general trauma and learned that I was a textbook codependent.
You understood that you were conditioned to put everyone else’s needs before your own: I was trained from birth to only ever care about what other people wanted and let everyone treat me however they liked just to keep the peace.
You’ve also learned how to respond to unhealthy situations and how to “reprogram” your brain: Iāve had to learn a lot of new terminology and learn what is/isnāt a normal and healthy response to certain behaviour or situations. Iām a programmer at heart and I view this as reprogramming my brain.
I would like to ask, if you’d care to answer: how are you now in terms of healing, setting boundaries, respecting yourself and your own needs? How is your life in other areas, apart from love life?
If I am counting well, you are now 38, so everything is possible, in theory, including motherhood, for which you’ve expressed interest (I still want to do all of the things that we planned to do a decade ago. I never got to travel with him, do all that romantic stuff, get engaged, married, build a home and family together).
But of course, you’d need to find a suitable man first. And not only that, but you’d need to feel good about yourself before you can actually build a happy life with someone else.
Maybe this is obvious and I am talking platitudes – but still, would you like to share a bit about your life now, 4 years after you first wrote?
TeeParticipantDear Emily,
welcome back!
I think it’s a good decision that you ended things with K, because being in a relationship with a depressed man is hard. You would have been giving and trying, but none of that would have made him change. He would have remained the same bitter, disillusioned man, who believes life is over for him.
I know he had a bad childhood and thinks abuse is normal. He was treated like that by his mother after his dad left, so he only knows how to be a bank account and doormat to women. He grew up with constant fighting and on-off relationship drama so I guess thatās normal to him and if heās not being used and mistreated it doesnāt feel like āloveā. Heās aware of that, but he thinks itās too late to really change anything now.
That’s a pity that he believes healing is impossible, and that it’s too late. He is in his early 40s, and it’s not too late for anything. He could build his life from scratch, if he’d want to. But it seems he doesn’t really want to address those wounds. Staying stuck and hopeless might be a defense mechanism against looking into a deeper pain, related to his childhood and his relationship with his mother.
He feels the risk it too high, even though he thinks he can trust me not to be like them. I donāt believe he does trust me.
He most probably doesn’t trust you, since he hasn’t healed the old wound of betrayal, inflicted on him first by his own mother. And then by his 2 wives (I don’t know about his 1st wife, but by M definitely).
But I donāt know if leaving him was any better, as now Iām just completely alone again. I tried to get back into dating, but havenāt had a single match let alone a date so that has been pointless and Iām just feeling like I missed the boat on having a life.
Well, you’re in your early 40s, so having children might be a bit tricky, although not impossible. But living a fulfilled life with someone you love and they love you back is still very much a possibility! So perhaps try to see where you too, similar to K, are giving up on life and tend to get depressed and pessimistic, even if realistically nothing is lost and you’ve got plenty of options in front of you.
Iām just really tired of life. It feels like Iām too far away from where I need to be and I canāt see any realistic way of getting there
This sounds like a wounded part speaking. Believing that things are hopeless, pointless, “too late”, even if you are only 40 years old and in the prime of your power.
Itās like winning the lottery, then having the ticket stolen from you before you can cash it. Then watching someone else spend most of the money, and years later having the ticket waved in your face as a reminder of everything you lost and can never have
Have you felt like love and happiness were stolen from you in the past? Have you experienced some form of betrayal, even before meeting K? Because maybe there is a deeper wound there, that you’d need to look at, before you can move on…
TeeParticipantHi SereneWolf,
Oh Iām sorry to hear that, But itās really impressive itās been a while and youāre still standing strong with hope. Love that. Your strong spirit is helping you for not getting weaker. I hope you feel better soon.
Thanks. It’s a challenge, but I simply have to keep up hope, because otherwise it would become very hard, I’d easily slip into depression. And I need to battle that.
Yeah but cats doesnāt smile like dogs, So Iām worried if sheās happy with me lol
Haha, cats don’t do anything if they’re not happy – they always put themselves first. So she must be happy š
Well is that her overconfidence or she found some loophole?
She is hoping she found or will find a loophole in your armor, I guess.
Iām not sure, Itās been a while since Iām little vulnerable with someone, Sheās understanding so we talk about lot of stuff. And yeah, I did have physical cravings for so long. That includes hand holdings to all the way to sleeping together.
Okay, if you also talk about your own vulnerability, and perhaps your own fears, and she is understanding, that’s good. I guess you appreciate her being understanding and not judging you, right?
But the thing is that even though I have attachment issues, I do get attached with women even though itās not only for sex. Otherwise FWB would be easier for me. Because even for sex I need to have at least good level of trust, bond and attraction.
I’ve just looked up how FWB is defined. And it doesn’t necessarily exclude emotional bond, but the most significant feature is lack of commitment. You said you have fear of commitment. It also makes you uncomfortable to say “I love you” (or to hear her say it), I guess because it carries a future expectation of a committed relationship. So I guess if there is fear of the future and fear of commitment, even though you’re enjoying things at the moment, I guess that would still be defined as FWB.
From the PsychCentral? I mean like does that mean we should do everything out of love not for the love?
Not sure I understand your question. The article talks about how it’s easy to fall in love, when hormones are high and we might be seeing the person through rose-colored glasses. But once the honeymoon phase is over, we need to make an effort to understand the person, to work on ourselves and our own issues, to not project things on them etc. In that sense, love requires effort.
Yes even in Twitter just influencer gurus are everywhere, Do this and change your life, 7 figure income in your 20s and blah blah blah they make it sounds so easy, and be like itās that easy why youāre not doing it?
Okay, so try to reduce reading about those mega success stories, because it makes you feel bad about yourself. And it would make most people bad about themselves. It’s the worse when we compare ourselves to others, and that’s exactly what your father and grandfather were doing to you, and now you’re doing it to yourself.
Yes mam, I have some interviews soon
I wish you success!
My fatherās mother. After that he never tried to hit me or even raise his voice to my mother or me. Like I said only two times it happened but it was traumatic enough for me, Before I was in primary school and I donāt even remember it properly, But also that time I raised my voice at him.
Itās emotional abuse even it happened one or two times?
You mean he tried to hit you and your mother only twice? But I thought he’d get angry with you often and scolded you for even the slightest mistake. You said he made you feel dumb whenever you made a mistake (the minute I make a mistake Iām dumb). He was also comparing you to other students, telling you you should be grateful for the material support he is providing and why can’t you learn better. He was also having perfectionist expectations on you. All this is emotional abuse, even though he wasn’t physically violent.
I mean, his criticism didn’t happen only twice, right? He wasn’t displeased with you only twice, but it was a common theme, it happened all the time. You grew up feeling not good enough, due to his constant criticism and shaming. That’s emotional abuse, SereneWolf, not emotional neglect.
Just today Me and my brother talked to him on conference call, He was like youāre both adults you should know things I shouldnāt have to tell you. and I told him clearly that I donāt prefer just assuming things, whatever is it just say things clearly. Heās like no youāre adults you should be aware about this. and the matter was that my grandparents are sick so he be like me and my brother are irrepressible for not knowing to offer for more financial help. I mean we knew that theyāre sick but how weād know that they need more help? and he was like I waited for days that youād call and offer? Iām like what? Just donāt wait and tell me things like that directly! He was like this is common sense so you should know. Really made me angry
Yeah, that’s passive aggression, I’d say. He doesn’t want to say what he needs directly, but is scolding you and your brother for not reading his mind and assuming what he needs. He is making you guilty for something that’s not your fault at all.
YES EXACTLY! He think everything he does is right and it always otherās fault.
Not willing to take responsibility for one’s actions and always blaming others is a mark of a toxic personality. It seems he is now less “in your face” about his expectations, but still does that indirectly, without saying it out loud, but still you can feel the sting.
Yes it made me so desperate to just earn and live on my own, I didnāt wanted to be burden on them. They always made me feel like they did so much for me and it felt like burden to me!
Yes, they (your father and grandfather) made you feel guilty if you brought home anything less than straight As, right? They made themselves into martyrs, while you were the bad, ungrateful son/grandson for disappointing them and “torturing” them like that.
That was putting so much pressure on you. No wonder you felt like a burden – because they made you feel like one. And then you left home, because you didn’t want to be guilt-tripped by them any more, right? You rejected their “nurturance”. You told your father: “I donāt need your help to take care of myself. I know how to handle things.” So you were fed up with his guilt tripping and making you feel like a burden. You decided to be on your own. “Self-sufficient” at 16.
But do you see how this “self-sufficiency” is a defense mechanism? It was born out of being blamed all the time, feeling like a burden all the time, and wanting to break free from that. With moving out, you basically told your father “I don’t need anything from you”. But that’s not true – the child always needs support from their parents, both material and emotional. But this was a defense mechanism, because you didn’t want to endure that blame and guilt-tripping any more.
So I started working much earlier without even getting my bachelorās first then I was blaming myself that I didnāt focused on my studies like other people otherwise Iād be more educated nowā¦
In order to support yourself, you had to work, and so no wonder that you couldn’t get your bachelor’s degree on time. But then you blamed yourself for not studying enough like other people. Well, now it’s time to stop blaming yourself and understand that leaving home was a self-protection mechanism, born out of despair and not wanting to be abused any more.Ā So instead of blaming yourself, try to find compassion for yourself – for the young boy of 16 who ventured out into the world to support himself, because his family was emotionally so cruel to him. So rejecting. So conditional love.
And congratulate yourself because you’ve managed to get your bachelor’s later on, in spite of working full time, which is always much harder. And now you’re even in the process of getting a master’s degree, if I remember well? So congratulate yourself for all your educational achievements, even if you got them a few years later than planned, due to objective circumstances.
Remember, you’re not lazy and “good for nothing”, but it’s that you needed to work in parallel with studying, which makes you actually a high achiever. Even though your father believes you are “less than”, tell yourself that you are a high achiever and very resilient. Because you made it in spite of the objective difficulties.
I searched itās called experience-dependent neuroplasticity. When we focus on the good, Good happens. Itās about positive mindset or positive perspective of life
Oh yes, neuroplasticity is a great thing, because our neural circuits can literally change as we focus on positive things and start having a more positive mindset.
So currently what internal challenges that I have? What do you think?
Well, it seems like you’re still comparing yourself to others in terms of professional success, and are feeling “less than” and that you haven’t achieved enough etc. I hope what I said above might help you put things into perspective and have more empathy for yourself and your life path so far.
Right Iām just trying to consume less information. Thereās just too much noise everywhere. In this noise it feels like my own inner voice is getting lost.
Yes, try to focus less on other people’s achievements. Don’t compare yourself to others. We all have our individual stories and our unique challenges. We also all have different lessons to learn in life. You only need to focus on yourself and your own life.
TeeParticipantHi Adam,
you are welcome! I am glad you were mostly doing fine last week and thinking of her less. How are things at the moment? I hope you’re having a good weekend…
Yeh when we last got back together she basically said itās up to me if I want to stick around for her ā6 or so month healing processā so basically until she was off her medication. I told her Iām here all the way, we spoke about therapy once she has an income but she didnāt get a job despite getting numerous offers.
You actually stayed with her all the way, even though her condition was deteriorating and she ended up emotionally abusing you. Unfortunately it wasn’t a “6 or so month healing process”. She wasn’t getting any healing in the process. She wasn’t working on her trauma, she was just cutting down on her medication, without really working on the cause of her dysregulation. Which naturally made things worse.
As far as therapy, I got the impression that she didn’t even want to seek therapy, even if it she could afford it. Because she had a bad prior experience and she didn’t find a therapist with whom she clicked. I didn’t get the impression that money was really a problem, but more her attitude that she can heal on her own?
I would say she didnāt want to accept the toll it took on me and I also didnāt want to tell her either. However she did say to me that she knows she is a lot to handle.
Yeah, you said that when you expressed how her moods made you feel (which you did rarely, I guess), she wasn’t really receptive to hearing it. Even if she would admit she was a lot to handle, she didn’t do anything to mitigate it. It was like “take it or leave it”. Or rather, when you said something she didn’t like, it was her who left. And so next time you didn’t dare to say anything….
An example of holding onto the past was when I told her that I have walls and a guard up because of the last break ups and she has to gain my trust again. She basically said I shouldnāt hold onto whatās happened in the past as now is all that matters to her. She wanted me to blindly trust her.
She wanted you to trust her that she’ll heal on her own, right? And that in the meanwhile you should accept her moods and be there for her, regardless of how emotionally abusive and controlling her behavior was?
I think it will just be a personal achievement as I donāt know if it relates to me being a good partner but more the idea of it being a good relationship because we reached a milestone.
Well, sometimes people stay in dysfunctional relationships (and marriages) for years, so the duration isn’t always a sign that the relationship is healthy. Your relationship was dysfunctional, so even if she wasn’t breaking up all the time, I think the 12 month mark wouldn’t have meant much in terms of how good and healthy your relationship was.
I do see why I fought now and I understand a lot more; my mind is starting to get clearer.
I am happy about that!
I think itās very ironic. I am genuinely an easy to please person. A lot of people and not just my partners have said this to me and Iāve come to realise majority of them are not actually easily pleased.
Right, you are easy to please, but you are attracted to girls who are difficult to please. And that causes some unfortunate dynamic…
I do jump into relationships quickly now I think of it. This one in particular was an unexpected one. I think I am so attached to how it all started which made it a bit harder. It was very spontaneous and natural and thatās what I wanted from meeting someone new and I think thatās what I miss and I try hold onto.
Okay, so you like how effortless and spontaneous your meeting was, and how it all flowed nicely in the beginning. The problem is that sometimes the relationship starts like a fairy tale, but turns into a nightmare. She was actually different in the beginning of the relationship – you said her personality on medications was much more relaxed and easy going, and you actually liked it.
However, the problem is that she didn’t like herself on medications. She wanted to get off of it. Perhaps she felt she wasn’t her true self while on medications? Btw did she say why she wanted to get off of medications?
In any case, it seems that the person you liked and fell in love in the beginning wasn’t the person she liked. And so she started to change…
TeeParticipantDear Caroline,
We did not saw each other much since that time, only some birthday party and couple of phone calls. She seems nice and different. So I canāt really tell the vibe right now. Is it a phase or is it now different.
You mean you saw each other last weekend, and after that you were together on a birthday party, and you spoke on the phone a couple of times? How did she behave during the birthday party? Was she a bit distant (even if polite)? Did she seem offended or hurt a bit, or anything like that?
I told her she was being mean to me, treating me like I am her younger brother or something, calling me names and mocking.
Good that you were specific enough!
Ā Thatās how I feel, like we are siblings and we show each otherās affection by mocking. Except itās not affection, itās just siblings who hate each other dynamic.
Actually you said earlier that you are always kind to her. Or at most you stay silent to her mocking. So you don’t behave like you hate her, right? You haven’t been mocking her back, or treating her harshly?
She just said she was sorry. And then started to be nicer but, as you wrote, and as I also wrote, itās like she is in power and allows me to do things. She decides.
Yes, it seems she is very identified with that parent/superior role, only now she is trying to be nice.
And what I want is: when I want to do something, even if she doesnāt agree or doesnāt approve I still want to do it. Sometimes alone and sometimes with her, if the situation requires like buying something together or going to see a movie that I like.
It’s great that you know what you want. So basically, if you want to do something, you still want to do it, regardless of whether she approves or not. And the good thing is that it only depends on you whether you do it or not. You don’t need her permission.
For example, if you want sushi, and she makes a mocking remark (that you are high maintenance), you still order sushi. If you want to see a movie, and she says no that’s a stupid movie, you still go and see it, either alone or with a friend. If you want to paint your room, and she says no you can’t, you don’t get discouraged, you don’t fight with her either, you simply go ahead and do it. You’d need to develop that inner strength and determination that says “this is what I want, I am allowed to have it, and I will have it.”
I decided we wonāt be going shopping together anymore, I just donāt want it.
I think it’s a very good decision! Because you said you tend to be indecisive about what to buy, and you used to ask her a lot. So now, when you’re shopping, try to relax, be in the moment and feel in your gut what you really want. For example, do you want this flavor or that flavor – try to imagine each flavor and decide which one you like better.
Try to listen to your body and your gut, let that guide you when making purchasing decisions. With a little practice, with some trial and error, I am sure you’ll become much more adept in knowing what you want and need. And you won’t be so insecure and in need of her approval.
The way she told me we are going to this concert that I would like to go, even though I never said I want to, she just assumed because I like this artist. So she is generous and wants to take me there. How to change this? I do not need her to give me those things, I want to make my own decisions. I want to buy an avocado or sushi or paint my room without her command: āNO, donātā, āstop itā.
How to change this? – Well, I think the first step is that you need to be more certain of yourself. You need to stop needing her approval and permission. You need to stop caring so much about her opinion. That’s how you develop more inner strength and autonomy.
And then, or at the same time, you can talk to her about it. You can say what you told me here: “I don’t need you to take me there, I don’t need your permission to go there. I’d appreciate if you didn’t tell me what I can or cannot do. I’d appreciate if you didn’t decide for me. I can make my own decisions.”
You can practice saying that in front of the mirror and see how it feels. You don’t need to tell her immediately, but just practice it with yourself.
I know she is fed up with her mother buying stupid things but I donāt think she goes shopping with her anymore. She is just fed up and angry. and takes it out on me. And I have had enough.
Good! You don’t have to take it any more. She needs to take responsibility for her actions. Even if she might be comparing you to her mother, or whatever other issue she may have, that’s not an excuse to take it out on you. So you’d need to tell her what bothers you and how you’d like to be treated instead.
You can tell her something like: “I don’t like it when you try to prevent me from doing the things I like. When you object every purchasing decision I make and tell me no, you can’t have it. I am an adult, I earn my own money and I would appreciate if you treated me like an adult.”
I think I will be more mindful of what I am saying, whether I am asking her for permission, suggestion, or say things that sound like I am.
Yes, that’s a good decision too – to pay attention to what you’re communicating. Because if you sound like asking for permission, she might just automatically disagree with everything, due to her subconscious programming.
And whether she is commanding me, and what is her general response to things I want to do/buy.
Yes, that’s excellent too – pay close attention to her words and if it’s really a command and she wants to control you, or it’s some automatic reaction.
I do not care anymore to offend her, I am really angry about this.
You have the right to stand up for yourself. That’s not offensive. If she gets offended, that’s your clue that something’s not right.
I have no idea what else should I do to get my power back.
Those are all great ideas: going shopping alone, being more mindful about your own communication, and hers as well. Express what you are bothered with more freely. You can do it in a polite, calm voice, but still determined.
Also, when you go shopping, and in other situations too, pay attention to your own needs and wants, listen to yourself. Because you’ve been taught to diminish yourself, to give up your needs and wants. So you’d need to reverse that, in order to develop more self-confidence and inner power.
I do not feel respected. I feel like a stupid child often. Tee, do you think there is a chance this could be changed?
The only thing you can do is start respecting yourself more. To stop feeling like a stupid child. So the only thing you can really change is the inner feeling. And you can start communicating that self-respect more to her, both by being more confident and also by telling her how you would like to be treated. That’s what you can do. It’s actually quite a lot, so you’ve got many tools in your arsenal.
However, what you cannot control is her reaction to you. You cannot control if she starts respecting you and treating you differently. You’ll have to see about that. But you can start taking charge of your side of the equation.
How does this sound? Does it feel overwhelming or it sounds doable?
TeeParticipantDear Caroline,
I talked to her, not much but I said she was mean to me sometimes, that she was not nice.
Did you tell her what specifically bothered you? Or you said it just in general, and she kind of knew what it was and now is treating you nicer?
Has she apologized for how she treated you?
I feel angry. I am scared the ānice phaseā will pass and we will be back to the usual. I donāt want to go shopping anymore because now I have had enough.
Yes, unfortunately it’s possible that this is just a phase and that she will go back to her usual self once the situation settles. The question is whether she actually respects you, or she sees you as inferior and inapt, almost like a child who needs her guidance all the time.
She also said we would go to this concert of an artist that I like (But I wasnāt really planning to go so I told her that I am not sure if it works out).
So she hasn’t asked you whether you want to go, but just told you that you’d go to this concert of an artist you like?
I don’t know her actual intention, but if I would to extrapolate from her so-far behavior, it’s almost like she so far disapproved and “forbid” you to do certain things, but now she is “generous” enough and allows you to do those things.Ā It could be the same patronizing dynamic, where she is in charge and is making all the decisions, and you are complying. A little bit like the parent-child dynamic.
This would be in line with what you said here: “Also sounds like..she is allowing me to have those things now, encouraging me, giving permission.”
I am not claiming this to be true, but just saying: if this is just a nice phase, then this is what could be happening. That she is still patronizing you, only now acting like a “good” parent for a change.
And itās not like she is forcing me or forbidding but.. discouraging. Saying things like: You wonāt be painting your room this years, forget it. Next year. And I will agree to this.
Well, this is not discouraging, this is a direct order: “you won’t do it, forget it.” I mean, I guess she can’t physically stop you from painting your room if that’s what you want, but the tone of voice is pretty commanding. Like, “no, you won’t do it. I am telling you”. I am not hearing a lot of discussion, e.g. that she is giving you her opinion on why she thinks it’s a bad idea to paint your room this year. It’s more like she is telling you not to do it, and no discussion about it.
She wonāt let me use the checkout, she says she only gets to use it (because I broke something one time, I donāt ever remember correctly). I am fed up with this treatment, even though now she is nicer and better.
I totally get it. Perhaps you feel that even if she is now nicer, she is still coming from this position of superiority and that she knows better and should be making decisions for you?
If so, it might be an abusive relationship. That’s why the real question is: do you feel respected, or you feel looked down at? Does she see you as an equal, or as a child whom she sees inferior and deserving of ridicule? If there is no respect there, then it’s not a healthy relationship.
TeeParticipantDear Katrine,
how have you been? Has he arrived to Portugal? Did you manage to talk to him since?
I hope your visit home was a good one and that you managed to refresh a little.
TeeParticipantHi Tom,
Very tolerant and flexible, patient to the core.
glad to hear your wife has those good qualities too.
What I understand is this might be a phase and things would get fine with times as is the case with any couple/ family.
That’s quite possible. As the children grow up, priorities change too, and the dynamic in your family might change as well. Perhaps your wife is rather burdened at the moment and has other priorities (related to child care) instead of being on time always. But this might change later, as the circumstances change.
I think I should prepare myself to face even more difficult situations as we move forward, its always better than getting overwhelmed
Well, as the children hit puberty, parenting may get more challenging. Don’t know if that’s applicable to your situation, but yes, it’s better to expect things to be less than perfect than to be frustrated when they’re not.
Thanks you for your supportive ideas and words of encouragement.
You are very welcome, Tom. Wishing you and your family all the best!
TeeParticipantHey SereneWolf,
my condition is still fluctuating, so I am still looking for something to give me better relief. But not losing hope, so…
Well now she does. She just comes and sleeps on my lap or belly occasionally. She also let me pet her head when sheās in the mood otherwise my finger is like a chewing toy for her.
Good – seems she is getting more tame as the time goes by š
I mean yeah I know that thatās what relationship is about sharing intimacy. So I didnāt mean only for grief, Obviously something more than that
Yeah, sure, sharing intimacy, being vulnerable, opening up when something is bothering us… it’s precious to have someone we can do that with, without being judged and ridiculed.
I feel sheās acting like one of my first LDR (Long-term) girl, She also acted like this because she doesnāt want to lose contact. I guess she still may have hope that she can change things.
Yes, I think so too. She is hoping you would come around and start really bonding with her. She is hoping she’ll melt you finally š
And we did talked about it very openly and I said if we still continue like this it would be harder to move on later on. She said she is aware of this but she said she would even like this regret.
Okay, she is taking the conscious risk…
So I said itās not wrong to create more memories together. But I did said Iām not sure so we still take things slowlyā¦ and I accept I do crave things from her thatās why Iām not able to directly say No to her.
What are you craving from her?
What you really think women get attached than men? But yeah for this case yes.
I think that women bond quicker emotionally if there is sex involved. So if you keep having sex, she’ll definitely get even more attached, while for you it’s a question, specially since you have attachment issues. But it seems she is willing to take that risk, since she is hoping you might change (or that she might change you)…
Yes, mainly work and career related things. Maybe I should use LinkedIn less. It makes me feel behind and somewhat jealous and question my abilities. In LinkedIn there are informative stuff but also lot of āSuccessā posting so..
Yeah, maybe it’s like Facebook – you start comparing yourself to other people and start feeling less than… so probably LinkedIn is something that triggers your inner critic and makes you feel bad about yourself. Maybe it would be better if you didn’t read those success stories, but only the information related to job openings…
Also lot of company is laying off people, so I just started to apply for different positions while ago which is also the stressful situation because even after applying for lot of job there isnāt much positive feedback yet
Are you still trying to find a completely remote job, so you can work from anywhere?
Yeah thatās like we talked before, Even though your father was aware he wasnāt able to protect you, So is my mother. And another thing I guess I didnāt told you is that my mother was worried about physical fight and something would happen to me, because if I remember only two times my father lost control and tried to physically hurt me and also hurt my mother when she tried to save me and when I saw that I didnāt showed him respect like I donāt care who you are you canāt treat us like that it would made him even more angry he be like you canāt disrespect me like that donāt raise your voice in front of me. And I would just be like this is nonsense and go to my room and not talk him for a day or two. And yet all my family (Not my siblings) is like itās just his anger he didnāt mean any harm. Iām like Iām the kid here or is heās the kid that he canāt even control his anger? You can bow down to his anger but I wonāt. Literally even my relatives says like oh just ignore that he just have some anger tendenciesā¦ A good son shouldnāt disrespect his father. But that time only my grandma told him like what are you even doing? Thatās how you treat your kids? and he did accept that it was his fault and heās sorry. Only to my grandma not in front of me. Otherwise, his āprideā would hurt. And after that my mother knew that If anything happens again Iād disrespect him again and it would make things worse between us.
Oh I see. So he was physically aggressive once and even hit your mother when she tried to protect you. And since then your mother was afraid for both you and herself, and was trying to reason with you not to talk back and provoke him even more. She tried to calm you (the child) down, so you wouldn’t provoke him (the adult)?
It seems your father wasn’t just an emotionally bully, but also potentially a physical bully, and there was a danger of domestic violence. And so your mother did everything to prevent that violence – by basically being obedient and trying to appease him, and also trying to control you and reason with you to be more “mature” (even if you were just a child).
Your mother unfortunately didn’t dare to challenge your father and demand that he controls his anger. Maybe she feared she would attack her too? I guess what made things worse is that men’s anger and aggressive behavior were societally acceptable, since everybody was excusing your father, as if he “didn’t mean anything bad”. Your grandfather was similar in character to him, and I guess your father actually received a similar treatment from his own father, right?
It was only your grandmother (your father’s mother?) who warned him and he sort of admitted that it wasn’t the right thing to do. After that, has he tried to hit you or your mother again, or that was the only incident?
But I guess his mindset didn’t change much. He thought he can yell at you and bully you as much as he pleases, while you should stay silent and “respect” your father. That father is “god” and children shouldn’t talk back. A very toxic attitude.
And I guess you didn’t want to bow down to him, you didn’t want to show respect to him, and that’s what caused friction. And I guess that’s why you left home so early?
Yes thatās right and the minute I make a mistake Iām dumb. He be like I did this and that and some people are not even able to provide daily necessities to their kids and yet theyāre performing well then what do you need?
He was extremely toxic, SereneWolf. He brutally criticized and shamed you for even the slightest mistake. No wonder you got traumatized by that. He expected you to be “grateful” for the material stuff that he was providing, while of course you couldn’t be grateful when he was putting you down so mercilessly.
Emotional support is much more important for a child than having material abundance. He gave zero emotional support. What you experienced from him was emotional abuse. (In the beginning you said you’re suffering from childhood emotional neglect. Well, this was not neglect, this was emotional abuse.)
They didnāt tell this to my face but I knew their thinking and I did like studying they never had to tell me like go and study like my siblings. They still believe Iām a āgood performingā student even though my attention span and curiosity for studying is worse now
Who is “they”? Your father and grandfather?
No wonder you started having issues at school later – it could have been a consequence of the emotional abuse you’ve been experiencing at home. You were under so much pressure you couldn’t take it any more. It could have even been a way of rebelling too. Sometimes we rebel because we can’t bear to be oppressed like that. I guess one way you rebelled was to leave home, but perhaps having issues at school was another way, only subconscious?
I donāt remember whatās that term called but itās like what you think is what you see? So I guess if Iām hearing good things about myself, I do feel good things about myself and after that I notice even more better things..
That’s great! Maybe the term you’re looking for is self-fulfilling prophecy: you expect good things, and then good things happen to you. And vice versa. In any case, I am glad that you’re more open to praise and that it helps you feel better about yourself.
Ah the feeling of satisfied with myself! Damn when will I get that?
When you heal your inner child and completely dismiss the inner critic… but you’re doing great, you’re making progress…
Yeah that drill sergeant! I do think most of the time heās not even there he just comes up when Iām feeling down about something and I do try to listen to Good general (Uncle Iroh)
Now I do have friendly inner voice and him. Like I said before I act like Iām my own friend and try to handle the situation if Iām telling myself bad things and Uncle Iroh kinda makes it even better.
Maybe the drill sergeant shows up when you’re looking at LinkedIn and start comparing yourself with others? This voice is actually your father’s and grandfather’s voice, because they were always comparing you with others. It’s great you have Uncle Iroh as the antidote!
Just yesterday I read on a post that says āLove is not just a feeling, It is a daily choice that we make.ā What does that mean? Can you elaborate if you know?
Well, one explanation could be that love is not just words (“I love you”), it’s also deeds – the things we do to show our love and appreciation every day. Okay, I’ve just looked it up, and the first thing that came up in search was an article titled “Why love is a choice you make every day.”
The article is worth reading, but basically the main point is: “It may feel easy to find love at first – your hormones are leading the way. Building love, which implies emotional intimacy, may take effort and action.”
TeeParticipantHi Adam,
I am glad your Monday was better, after a rough but productive weekend!
Working out and doing daily duties but still smoking only a lot less. Itās the first real day where i had a moment of feeling amazing knowing I donāt actually need her and I accepted what happened and told myself I didnāt even want to go back to her.
That’s the spirit! It’s a great attitude. I hope you can have more and more days or moments where you feel good about yourself and free from that longing and need for her.
I thought I did accept her for how she was? I understood she was a lot to handle and yes I wanted her to change how she felt about herself thinking it would make our relationship healthy. I figured what I suggested were all healthy paths for change and healing.
You did suggest healthy paths for change, however she didn’t want to take those paths or listen to your suggestions. She wanted to take her own path to healing, which wasn’t really working, but nevertheless she wanted to continue doing that. But the greater problem was that she wasn’t really functional as an adult – she would have needed some significant healing before she could become a functioning adult, with goals compatible to yours (have a job, settle down, have children).
And she didn’t want to do that healing.
Regardless of what she was claiming, the path she took – getting off her medication and letting her feelings run rampant, and then using you as a punching bag to release those emotions – is not a path of healing. It’s a path of self-delusion, with you as a collateral damage.
Your mistake was continuing to stay in that relationship, and begging her to reconcile, even if the relationship was deteriorating with each new cycle. You allowed her to use you as her punching bag and to lose yourself in the process, becoming a shell.
Please don’t think I am blaming or judging you in any way. You were very attached to her and didn’t want to lose hope, due to your own wounds and longing. That longing blinded you to the reality of what is happening: 1) that she isn’t getting any better, 2) that she refuses to take steps that might actually help her get better, and 3) that you were exposed to emotional abuse.
But now looking back, you can see how hoping that she would change eventually – even though she wasn’t doing anything to make that happen – was a form of magical thinking on your part. It was a form of self-delusion. And that’s what our inner child does – because he needs to keep hoping that he would finally get what he wants.
That was the exact reason she left work. Well the main one atleast. She didnāt want to be withdrawing or take time off while working from what she told me.
Yeah, that wasn’t a bad decision. However, what was a bad decision is that she didn’t seek professional help in that period – someone who would help her go through those emotional states. Instead, she was actually dumping everything on you and using you as a buffer and a punching bag. That was not fair to you at all.
It also seemed like she was very picky and particular with the work she wanted to do. Similar to the relationship she left her few jobs she had when I knew her very quickly over nothing too major.
This tells me that she didn’t really want to work. She had other priorities and probably could afford not to work for extended periods of time. This would be in line with what I said earlier that she probably wanted to find herself first and just “play in the sand” while not really have adult responsibilities.
When I opened up about my anxiety she usually was understanding however now I think of it whenever my anxiety was related to her she wasnāt so much. Like when she told me I should trust her and not go hold onto the past.Ā
I guess she told you to trust in her method of “healing”? And to be patient. Even though it wasn’t giving any results and she was getting worse with time. So I guess when you complained about her mood swings, she basically silenced you, telling you to “trust the process”. And she dismissed the emotional toll it was taking on you, right?
As for not holding onto the past – what did she mean?
What your saying is making a lot of sense I felt guilty asking for my own time and itās reassuring I was only wanting my own time to protect myself. Again it was a lose lose situation for me
Yes, you said you were blamed regardless of what you did.
What you said here ā āYour entire struggle is that you are attracted to girls who are difficult to please, but whom you want to please, so you can feel good about yourself. So that you can feel worthy of love. Thatās I believeā
This really hit hard for me when I first read it. I think it makes a lot of sense as to why Iād be attracted to this in my head. I do feel like I have something to prove at times.Okay, so this might be your core wound: not feeling worthy of love. And you go to great lengths to prove that you are worthy. In this relationship you even allowed her to mistreat you, hoping that if you endure it all and stick by her side, you’ll finally prove to her that you’re worthy of love.
For example at the moment I want to prove to myself that I can have a partner for 12 months. I just look forward to those anniversaries I think
I see. Because so far you’ve never had a relationship last longer than 11 months, right? And so if you make it to 12 months, that would be a sign of success? Perhaps you have the idea that if you make it to 12 months, you are a good enough partner? Otherwise, you believe you are not and that it’s your fault if the relationship ends earlier?
She was very unstable and fragile. Almost anything would set her off at times. A movie I picked, turning off a light, not giving a piggy back. These ālittle thingsā are what she saw as my imperfect love and I think she just didnāt feel the love I was giving due to her mental state and past trauma.
Yes, you said she had “disgusting moods”. Those were due to her unprocessed trauma. However, she managed to convince you that it’s because of you, that you weren’t treating her well. That too is very unfair, because at least she could have been aware that her moods were because of her own issues, and were exacerbated once she stopped taking her medicine. But it seems that she didn’t want to take responsibility for her emotional reactions, or even if she did briefly (each time you’ve reconciled), she quickly returned to her business-as-usual: blaming you for her moods. That was really toxic.
And you believed her on some level: the inner child took the blame, because he was hoping that if he changed and became “perfect”, he would finally deserve her love. So your inner child took the blame and felt responsible for her moods, even if your adult part knew she was too demanding and asking too much from you.
I know Iām worthy of love but I think itās more that I havenāt really felt it from a partner. I just feel like Iām the ānice guyā sometimes who they loved but not how they want.
A part of you (the little boy in you) doesn’t know yet that he is worthy of love. That’s why you stay in abusive relationships and you try to mold yourself into a “perfect” guy, who will be worthy of love.
Yes it was about 6 months in when I started writing letters, this was when the break ups were getting worse. I think this was the fourth time. I have exactly what I wrote if youād like to know some details. I said things like āchange is just around the corner, these difficult times are what builds strong relationshipsā. I said a bunch of other things too. I really poured my heart out to her numerous times thatās what makes it hurt a bit more.
“āchange is just around the corner, these difficult times are what builds strong relationships” – this is how you were deluding yourself that she would change, that she would get over the hump eventually. Even though she was getting worse and worse, and refused to do anything that might have actually helped her.
But in those letters, I guess you didn’t dare to mention that she should change. You only expressed hope that “the relationship will change”. And the result was that you actually changed – you became more and more compliant to her requests, less and less nudging her, more and more walking on egg shells. So it was you who was abandoning yourself, in order to preserve the relationship. She hasn’t changed a bit, on the contrary she became more and more demanding, and never pleased with you.
I realise I shouldnāt have fought but I genuinely couldnāt help myself. I am a big believer on just going all the way but I can see how it may be a turn off. I just have to do certain things otherwise I will regret it. I found out the hard way though.
I hope you can now see that you fought so persistently because you wanted to believe that things will get better. Because the longing of your inner child blinded you to reality of the situation. And the reality was what I mentioned above: 1) that she wasn’t getting any better, 2) that she refused to take steps that might have helped her get better, and 3) that you were exposed to emotional abuse.
I think I did look for validation in this girl. It makes a lot of sense, I was only getting a crumbs but they made me happy at times. She really didnāt put much effort in towards the end either
Glad that you’re realizing that you were looking for validation. Again, that’s the inner child, who was willing to do anything to get that validation.
I look back and remember the feeling I had when I first met her etc and it was great. It reminds me of a high and it felt like we kept on having that after break ups. It was the cycle of abuse.
Yes, after each reconciliation you would start hoping that this time, it will finally work out. That you’ll finally get that validation and love you were longing for. That produced the “high”. But then the abuse quickly returned, because she hasn’t changed one bit and only became more demanding.
Speaking on when we first met I remember it was so spontaneous, no planned dates we just hung out and instantly hit it off, there was obviously chemistry and attraction. I think I was chasing that feeling of love especially here by chasing a carefree girl.
Isn’t it ironic that you got hooked by her being a carefree girl? Only to turn out later that she is anything but carefree.
It’s almost like a part of you (perhaps your adult self) wants to have an easy-going girl, who is easy to please and doesn’t need much to be happy. But another part of you (your inner child) is attracted to girls with anxiety and other mental health issues, who per definition are difficult to please.
I remember how much more effort she put in and how much happier she seemed when working and on medication.
Yeah, I can imagine that she was much more stable and didn’t have those extreme emotional reactions. But I guess there were some side-effects of antidepressants that she didn’t like (perhaps feeling “dull”?), and she wanted to feel more alive, more herself. However, she didn’t go well about it. Her DIY “healing” only made her feel worse.
So until I have healed the core wound a relationship isnāt a good idea?
I think so. If you don’t heal the core wound, it’s likely that you’d end up in a similar situation.
Does that mean this wasnāt a good idea in the first place for me? I felt she was the main issue in the relationship was I a cause of the problems too then?
Well, this wasn’t a healthy relationship, but it was a lesson. And a wake-up call I guess to look deeper into yourself and heal that attraction to difficult girls. You yourself didn’t make the relationship worse, your only mistake was that you stayed for too long.
I will speak to my psych about my need to prove that Iām worthy of love.
Good, you do that! Let me know what she said…
Thanks again Tee Iād also love to get to the root of the problem
You’re welcome! I hope you’re seeing it more and more, and with time, you’ll be able to heal it too. I am rooting for you!
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