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TeeParticipantDear Sandy,
I am sorry you are in this situation. Unfortunately, your partner’s behavior is toxic, because he is not willing to talk to you about problems, but shuts you off and gives you the silent treatment. It is also called stone-walling, and it’s one of the so-called 4 horsemen of the apocalypse for relationships, according to psychologist and researcher John Gottman. If there is a lot of stone-walling in the relationship, along with criticism, contempt and defensiveness, the relationship is set to fail.
You are seeing it very clearly too: “we do not have the minimal baseline for healthy communication.”
And it seems the reason for that is not you, but him. You are doing your best to try to communicate, but he is refusing. He is punishing you for bringing up certain topics that bother you, and that matter to you. He just doesn’t want to talk about it. And he also blames you for reacting too strongly to the things that bother you (all he sees are my reactions to situations), but never wants to address those things. He doesn’t want to admit there is a problem in the first place, right?
I cannot help but constantly feel at fault. I feel like all he sees are my reactions to situations but doesnāt see or acknowledge how I got there. That has been a reoccurring struggle for me because I acknowledge I am sensitive towards certain topics, I acknowledge I might show sensitivity towards other people in his life, yet I cannot help it.
I think your “fault” is in thinking that you are at fault. That if you could only be “softer” and less direct, and sugar-coat it even more, he’ll finally be willing to talk about it. But it has never happened, has it? No matter what you do, there is still a wall that he puts between you and him. And you cannot cross that wall, or circumvent it…
I acknowledge I am sensitive towards certain topics, I acknowledge I might show sensitivity towards other people in his life, yet I cannot help it.
I do not want to be quiet, I want to have a healthy, balanced conversation…. I donāt know how to reclaim my voice here.
I’d like to encourage you to talk about those sensitive topics here, on your thread. He is stonewalling you, but here you will be heard. If you want to talk about the sensitivity or the upset you feel about other people in his life, you are more than welcome to share. Your voice is welcome here.
TeeParticipantHey SereneWolf,
I haven’t commented on something important you’ve said, about comparing yourself to others:
I mean I donāt know if Iām expecting a lot and I might be comparing myself with others here like others are already doing it then I can do it too. So I tell myself itās doable. Because I think some people are dealing with more things than me yet still reaching their goals and finishing tasks then I can do it too. And whenever I try to give excuses to myself about something I feel guilty and yet still lot of times I procrastinate a lot.
Okay, so you believe you need to achieve the same as someone else, and then if you don’t, you beat yourself up, you feel bad about yourself (I feel guilty), and then your performance gets even worse (I procrastinate a lot).
Comparison with others is something you were exposed to during your entire childhood: both your father and your grandfather were comparing you with other kids all the time, right? And now you are doing it to yourself. You’ve internalized your father and grandfather’s voice and it became a part of your inner critic. So comparing yourself to others is another way of telling yourself “I am not good enough/successful enough/rich enough/high on the ladder enough”.
That’s why you “feel like times is passing too fast” (the title of your thread) – because there is a pressure to perform, to achieve, to push, push, push… because someone else is doing it better and faster than you.
Would you agree with that?
Comparing ourselves to others is very toxic – it doesn’t motivate us but makes us feel like a failure. It’s not like a positive encouragement, but it always comes with a lot of self-judgment. And it eventually prevents us from thriving, because we feel like a failure, and so we self-sabotage.
So my suggestion is to stop the comparison. See it for what it is: a toxic feature of your inner critic, something you’ve learned from your father and grandfather.
There is a great youtube video “How to stop comparing yourself to others“, which just popped up in my feed, by Therapy in a nutshell. She says some fantastic things, e.g. that by comparing ourselves to others, we believe that our worth is dependent on how we score compared to others, how many people are above us or below us on the “ranking list”. And this always lead to disappointment because someone will always be better and more successful than us.
Bottom line: by comparing ourselves to others we are allowing our worth (which is inherent) to be dependent on external factors. And we are setting ourselves up for failure.
A better approach, she says, is to focus on integrity (living in accordance to your true values) rather than comparison. Here is an example: if we want to lose weight, the comparison mindset would say “Oh, Martha is in a such a great shape. I have to lose weight already!” Whereas the integrity mindset would say “My health is important to me. I will cut down on junk food and exercise more, because I want to be healthy.”
I found this pretty cool: integrity mindset vs comparison mindset. Never heard it described this way, and loved it!
Anyway, just wanted to share this…
How have you been? I hope you are fine…
TeeParticipantHey Beni,
I am glad you replied (and no, I didn’t feel any defensiveness on your part).
Itās not really pain itās more that my right leg feels a bit different (colder) and I have like a 1 in my back if it gets more I just stop.
Okay, 1 is a really small pain, and if you stop if it gets any higher, I guess that’s safe enough.
As for the cold feeling in your leg, that’s the sciatic nerve. So I guess it does get affected a little. Have you tried taking vitamin B6? I’ve tried it when I felt tension in my nerve, and it helped.
I use my body way more cautious these dayās way more soft and I take more breaks…. I ride ramps mostly theyāre round you fall different you have less impact. It feels okay to do it. I use my body different than a year ago way more conscious.
That’s good to hear! To be honest, I was afraid that you’re minimizing the impact and sort of telling yourself that the pain is only in your head. But if you stop yourself after the pain gets above 1, then I think you’re pretty cautious about it.
What I’ve learned (based on the teachings of Drs Sarno, Schubiner, Hanscom etc) is that pain (specially chronic pain) depends on the way we perceive danger. Pain is created in the brain, based on the impulses we receive from the body, but also the level of danger we perceive.
If we believe that a movement is dangerous/unsafe, we will feel more pain, because pain is the brain’s alarm to stop doing that what is dangerous. If we believe that the movement is safe, we will feel less pain.
Before I’ve learned this, every time I’d accidentally make a wrong move and started feeling pain, I would panic and fear that I’ve messed it up and wouldn’t be able to recover from it. I perceived danger from every “less than perfect” movement. And that’s what increased the pain and made me worry even more. That mental anguish and worry was actually very exhausting, it wasn’t good for my mental health at all.
So I’ve learned to accept that not every less-than-perfect move is dangerous, and this made me much more relaxed about feeling pain. Because I know that in a few days I’ll be back to normal again, and that I haven’t messed it up irreversibly.
I did the injection because the doc told me the insurance might not pay. I was afraid that when I do not have pain I might overdo myself.
Oh I see, so you didn’t even want an injection because you were afraid you won’t feel the pain and then you’d overdo yourself. This means you didn’t really want to minimize the pain – you wanted to feel it, so that it guides you. I assumed the opposite – that you minimized it so you can keep skating. I apologize for that – that was my false assumption.
That time I had very clear feedback from my body when I needed a break. Now itās not so clear sometimes itās activity sometimes mood.
Yeah, that’s the nature of chronic pain. The nerve endings get sensitized over time, and as soon as there is an inkling of pain, the whole “pain circle” in the brain gets activated. And yes, it depends on the mood too, because if you are afraid you did something dangerous, it hurts more.
Yeah, I kinda wanna let go of that cause itās most times a combination between mood and physical activity or one of them. And if Iām honest I donāt know what it is
I guess it’s both: a pain signal from the injured place, combined with the “pain circle” in the brain, which magnifies that pain if you perceive it as dangerous.
I think this is what you’ve described here:
I have been observing that when Iām in touch and I fall on a Skateboard it does not hurt itās kind of a sweet pain. As soon as there is a slight pressure (my mind wants to take control). I get more stiff it hurts and I feel I can get injured.
the last 4 times I observed when Iām in pain thereās also guilt or abandonment around and not only as science sayās wrong movement. I might just feel this way because I belief itās not good for me.
So when you fall, if you don’t feel afraid, you only feel “sweet pain.” Or your brain interprets it as “sweet”. But if you start doubting, feeling guilty that you did something you shouldn’t have done, you get stiff and it hurts, and then you feel that in that stiff posture, you might really injure yourself (I get more stiff it hurts and I feel I can get injured.) Am I understanding this right?
itās most times a combination between mood and physical activity or one of them. And if Iām honest I donāt know what it is and I noticed that I need to let go of these good/bad beliefs. Wrong movement thatās too easy to say.
Yeah, I think it’s a combination of the real physical pain and the pain generated in the brain, which serves as a danger signal. For me, as an anxious person by nature, my brain was producing more pain, to warn me of the potential danger. In other words, my “alarm” is too sensitive and goes off even when it shouldn’t.
I don’t know how it is for you. When I wrote that post, telling you to be more cautious, I thought that maybe your “alarm” is not sensitive enough. But I am not thinking that any more, because you actually said you want to use pain as your guide not to overdo yourself. So it’s not like you want to numb and minimize your pain.
Anyway, let me know what you think about all this. Maybe I am overthinking it. But since it’s about spine, I kind of feel I have to š
A Neuro-Surgeon told me that itās hard for doctorās to know if what they did helped or if it was placebo. And heās researching this.
Yeah, Dr. Hanscom is also a neurosurgeon, who stopped doing spine surgeries once he realized that the success rate of those surgeries is only about 20%. Many people didn’t get the pain relief they were hoping for. That’s why I think nowadays they don’t push those surgeries unless it’s a must, like when the nerve is pinched and the person suffers incontinence, cannot move their legs and suchlike.
I hear that you did a small move and had big impact which makes you very cautious. I think this is how we are conditioned mostly. Because you had this experience you can be that cautious.
Yeah, it definitely wasn’t good for my anxiety. Because in the beginning, I didn’t even think anything of it, I wasn’t anxious at all, thought it would go away in a matter of days. But then as it wouldn’t go away and it got worse (partly because I wasn’t told I should be cautious), it really made me overly cautious and fearing my ever move.
TeeParticipantHi Beni,
I am sorry if what I said in my last post upset you. I guess a part of my concern is that I myself am very afraid of re-injury and perhaps I’ve projected my own fears onto you.
Because this spinal injury is a completely different “beast”, a health condition I’ve never experienced before. Initially after my injury, I thought it was simply a strained back and that it would heal in a few days. After 7-8 days I did indeed start feeling better, and I resumed with normal activity (bending, ironing etc), and I think that’s when I made it worse. The pain became persistent – not strong, but constant. That’s when I decided to get a scan, because it was strange.
There was also a second instance, approx. a month after my injury, where I was feeling better again, and so I bent again while doing housework. I wasn’t even thinking about it, I did it automatically (not paying attention to how I was bending), since my pain was practically gone at that point. And that’s what caused the pain to spike, and then it took me months to alleviate.
So that’s why I am super afraid of doing a wrong move ā because I know what it can do to me. Of course, I’ve done a lot of core training since and I did become more resilient, so even if I do a bad move – accidentally – I do get better after 5-6 days or so. So it’s not irreversible. However, I am cautious to never bend the old way, but to always have my spine straight. And I am taking other precautions as well, not to aggravate the pain.
A part of my problem is that in the beginning I wasn’t told by either my doctor or my physical therapist that some movements can aggravate the pain and that I should avoid them. And I paid a price of not knowing thatā¦
So when you said that you’re still skating, doing the moves similar to those that caused your injury ā I was like “nooo, please don’t do that, you might hurt yourself!”. I might have been projecting, because maybe you found a way to do those moves safely, so that they are less likely to cause you injury?
You said something interesting: that you don’t want to believe that there are wrong movements:
I try to let go of that belief that there is right an wrong movement. I wanna follow what feels light and bright.
Well, itās kind of widely accepted (and I’ve experienced it on my own skin too), that with spinal injury there actually can be wrong movements, e.g. bending the wrong way or lifting something heavy without bracing. Maybe you want to say that if you do a movement properly, with all the necessary precautions, it can be pretty safe?
You said you do feel pain the day after skating:
When I have a lot of impact I usually feel it more the day after.
May I ask how strong is this pain and how long it lasts? Because if you have pain afterwards and it stays for a while, then perhaps it’s not so “light and bright.” Of course, you know your body best, but I think it’s important to consider whether you feel reasonably well in the following days, or you are experiencing a setback?
If you feel you are getting stronger and stronger every day, and you’re feeling less and less impact after doing those movements ā then perhaps it’s really safe for you to do them.
You also said you did a Snowboard Teacher Training in December, which I guess means that you could cope quite well with that level of strain? This tells me that your spine is in a much better shape than mine, so perhaps you don’t need to be that cautious.
I start to belief that to heal itās better to fully trust in my body rather then doing what makes the most sense. Thatās creating insecurity cause I do not know what Iām doing.
I am sorry if my previous post contributed to your insecurity, by me “siding” with the doctors and telling you to do what “makes the most sense”, i.e. what is usually recommended for this type of injury.
As I’ve said, I am coming from my own experience and my own fragility/sensitivity, which still lingers more than a year since the injury.
I hope we can talk some more, because this is an important topic for both us, which has a big impact on our lives. And so I hope we can continue our discussionā¦
Take care, Beni!
TeeParticipantHey Beni,
ah, itās called sliding vertebra itās a different thing and has a very similar latin name aand yes I mixed it up.
Ah I see, I’ve just looked it up, it’s called spondylolisthesis… yeah, it’s hard to pronounce even after reading it multiple times š Sorry you have that too. How bad is it? They are some exercises for that too, if you’re not already doing them?
Mine either the doctor pushed me to do it after 2 Months.
Wow, that’s unusual, because I think they do it if the pain is really strong and you can’t do anything, i.e. can’t even start any physical therapy.
Hard to say how much in numbers it was. It was very dependent on my mood and other needs and how I could meet them.
I see… maybe you tried to push yourself in those first 2 months, to get over it quickly, and that’s why it sometimes hurt a lot, and it warranted an injection?
itās affecting me rather on the āI canāt ride rails in the snowpark every dayā and āI donāt feel like jumping stairs with the skateboard levelā. If I can accept it itās easy. I get it that itās peanuts too not being able to ski at all and needing more breaks during housework.
Yeah, in theory it’s easy, because it’s not like you can’t live without those activities. But I guess the problem is (if this is a problem for you?) if you enjoy those sports, and you have a sense of loss if you don’t do them?
Because what I’ve heard you say so far is that you would like to continue those sports (albeit maybe not with the same intensity), but your doctors don’t recommend it, and you too fear a little that you might injure yourself again. I mean, that’s the dilemma (or the situation) that I am hearing you describe.
I know you said it’s not really a dilemma, because it’s not such a big deal for you, but as a fellow patient with spinal injury, I kind of have compassion for your body and wouldn’t like you to get injured again.
You say you believe you body is more resilient than what the doctors say (I actually think itās a bit more resilient or that I get used to feeling it.), but in this specific case, when it’s about your spine, I think you should err on the side of caution. Please don’t take this as judgment, but simply as a fellow patient expressing my concern and wishing you a pain-free and healthy life, for as long as possible.
Actually I’ve just googled “skating with herniated disc”, and I found a reddit discussion between skaters, where they don’t recommend it, though some of them still do it because they love it so much.Ā One of them says “I think the problem is the shock/impact when you land. it goes directly into your spine.” And the other “TBH, skating definitely triggers the pain – I feel better when I do not skate. But I just love skating too much to stop.”
Anyway, I feel I had to address it, because I think it’s an important topic… What do you think and feel about this?
Another question how would you differ chronic and non-chronic pain?
I think chronic pain is defined as lasting for more than 3 months, coming and going repeatedly, sometimes it’s stronger, sometimes lesser. But it’s recurring, it never goes away completely.
TeeParticipantHey SereneWolf,
good to hear from you again!
Itās totally fine I can understand. I wanted to know if youāre getting better, but thanks for responding.
Thank you for your understanding, you are very kind. I did feel guilty multiple times for not responding, but I felt so paralyzed. But when you wrote last week, I sort of woke up and told myself “come on, enough of this self-pitying, it’s time to reply!” So thank you, you helped me wake up from my slumber š
I know your health issues arenāt easier, so I hope it gets better and I also hope that you get more courage and love over anxiety for your health.
Thanks, yeah, those are some real challenges, both health-wise and career-wise. But yeah, I hope I’ll be able to keep defrosting š
Iām doing ok. Trying for my self-esteem issues and love myself more. But I believe Iām getting better. Iāve completely focused myself for my career. No situationships for now.
Oh, so you broke up? Would you like to share some more, like how it happened?
Although my sister and brother-in-law kinda on a mission to find a girl for me and convince me to get married and I know their intention arenāt wrong and also started to tell me lot of good aspects from the right partner and marriage, so Iām not scared about marriage as I used to. Since Iām seeing a good thing about it. But Iāve told them only to start look for girls when I tell you that Iām ready. and they agreed.
Good to hear you’re not that scared any more. I’ve written some ideas in my previous post (about relationships), of what I think might be behind your lack of trust. What do you think about it?
Also, good that your sister and brother-in-law aren’t pushing you. Honestly, there is no point in pushing something that important, when you are not ready. It can only lead to problems and regrets down the line. So don’t do it until you’re ready.
But I think you will only be ready once you heal those fears and lack of trust in people. So my advice is to work on your relationship fears as well, don’t just focus on your career. Because focusing only on your career is an avoidance strategy too. It’s easier for you. But it’s not helping, on the long-run…
And lately I do try to be grateful and positive within, yet I still feel alone and helpless and losing hope sometimes. But Iām still being resilient. Iām trying to listen to Inner positive voices like Krishna and Uncle Iroh like and try to feel like someoneās watching over me and they got my back and things will get better.
Yeah, I hear you. I know this dichotomy very well: on the cognitive level, you know you are good enough and you try to be positive. But deeper, emotionally, on the inner child level, you feel helpless and alone. And losing hope, sometimes. For me, this hopelessness and helplessness got activated with my back injury and other health issues. That triggered it, but I’ve realized this feeling was always in me, only I wasn’t aware of it. And now it came to the surface. And there is no other way but to tackle it…
I agree it makes me remember our conversation about old beliefs and I guess therapy did helped a bit but not very significant. And just Iām not seeing therapist anymore. I do try to journaling and work on removing my old beliefs and rooted fears. What kind of things that I can do to remove my old beliefs and rooted fears more efficient way? Kinda like rewiring our brain you know
I’ve just dug up a youtube video on negative core beliefs, by my favorite online therapist, Barbara Heffernan. There is a link to the pdf file below the video, where she explains how to transform those beliefs. The video is titled “Core Beliefs CBT“. Highly recommended. I’ve just done the exercise in the pdf file, for transforming the core beliefs. Let me know if you’ve tried it.
I am sorry you’re not seeing your therapist any more. Is she still having problems with her eyes?
Ah I see, I know itās not easy for you but have you ever tried being a reckless child at this age? Like I donāt care what happens to me I want to do it means I want to do it. I guess because concerned and matured adult would think and ruminate a lot. Reckless child wouldnāt. and who knows you can get good results although itās something really out of your comfort zone but something that you can try and feel like you got the power.
No, I can’t think of myself as reckless. I don’t think my inner child ever wanted to be reckless š But it would be nice to “just do it”, without too much rumination. And I wouldn’t do reckless things, but good things, things that I love. So perhaps a curious child, enthusiastic child, would be a better fit š But thanks for the idea to involve my inner child in her “original form”, while she was still not frightened and stifled by my mother’s programming. I like it, I’ll see if it works…
Haha yeah, youāre right. Well, we got to try. Right!?
Yes! Discovering our false beliefs and then counteracting them is super powerful. I’ve just learned from Barbara Heffernan’s video that our core beliefs don’t reside in our cognitive brain, but in our limbic brain. That’s why we can’t overwrite them by simply thinking positively. We need to dig deeper into our old emotional experiences and re-write them as well… and that’s what her method should help in.
TeeParticipantHi SereneWolf,
moving on to the second part of your post, about romantic relationships…
I agree with you. And the thing is that I never been taught to give relationships priority you know. Thatās something I discovered after my earlier 20s that building relationships romantic or generally itās really important. And the self-reliance fueled that wrong belief even more.
Yes, I can imagine. If you believe that others will hurt you and that you can actually do pretty well alone, then sure, I see why you didn’t want to build relationships, not only romantic but friendships either, if I understood you well? Btw, did you have close friends as a child?
And the funny part is that I have trust issues even though till now Iāve met like really kind, helpful and amazing people. Generally takes me long to trust in the person
Yeah, your lack of trust has developed gradually, with your parents (and I guess other adults too, like your grandfather?), in your childhood. And it remained a blueprint for how you view all other relationships. Even if you meet kind and loving people, your core belief (“I cannot trust people”) will be still working in your subconscious and will make you guarded and cautious.
But what Iām glad about is that I was never into transactional relationships like Iām only helping you just because you helped me. I always have this mindset of If Iām able to help someone then Iām going to help. I donāt want something in return.
Right. That means your intention is pure, and you have no expectations from the person to “pay you back”. Perhaps what you’ve experienced in your childhood is some kind of manipulation/transactionality, either on your own skin or in your family? That people would only help each other if they saw personal gain in it?
But in previous romantic relationship part I was like a fixing figure so that also didnāt fulfilled me either so..
Yeah, you slid into the father figure a bit, feeling that your girlfriend needs help and fixing, and you were trying to guide her in that (and then you would get annoyed when she couldn’t get on top of her problems). In reality, she did need help to overcome her issues, but not from you, but a therapist…
I guess that in that relationship too, you didn’t dare to show your own vulnerability, your own weaknesses, but you (actually both of you) were focusing mostly on her weaknesses, right? Like, she was the “project” that you were working on, and it wasn’t coming along well. And so you were getting frustrated, and she was feeling guilty etc etc.
I told her If she wants we can also stop physical things but she was like naah.. But anyways I guess weāre both little tired to find something more suitable for ourselves..
What’s with the doctor now?
I do trust her. But somehow Iām still not trusting in this relationship working out with her
Even if you’d like to trust her, I think you still don’t trust her. Because the false core belief (“I cannot trust others”, or “Other people will hurt me”) is still active…
Ohh right definitely I am afraid of falling in love. It feels like Iām trying to protecting too much or like not letting it loose enough you know.. and I donāt think I need something from them. But more like fear of wasting time and not working out and just dull over the time you know. Because again I still have the fear that Iām not getting any younger
Would to “let loose” mean to get “madly” in love, which means you’d become too distracted and not able to function properly? It seems you believe that if you fall in love, you’ll be too vulnerable, too distressed, not focused enough, and they’ll be able to prevent you from even reaching your goals, your career goals etc. Like, that the person you love will prevent you from reaching your goals and dreams. Could it be it?
To be honest Iām not sure if thatās the root cause it may be I donāt knowā¦ and yeah we can explore
I am just thinking… betrayal of trust can happen if we open up and show vulnerability, and the other person ridicules us, shames us or uses it against us. Or it can happen if they promise us something and never deliver. And I guess it can also happen if they shame us and criticize us all the time (like your father and my mother did), and we can never trust that they wouldn’t hurt us. I wonder if any of these reasons resonate with you?
I took few days of break for applying. I didnāt just felt like it. I started applying again though so letās see.
Any luck since then in finding a job? I do hope you’ve managed to find something good, something you enjoy…
TeeParticipantHey SereneWolf,
I’ve never replied to your last post in November, so I’ll try do it now…
Oh I see, I didnāt know so thanks for sharing. Then how can same kind of wound could have opposite ends of spectrum?
I think it can be compared to a reaction to a physical attack: one person runs away, another person fights back. The same trauma, diametrically opposite reactions. Same here: you felt strong enough not to need anything from your parents, whereas I felt too weak to do anything on my own.
Also in my case excessive self-reliance is depleting my energy quickly and burning me out time to time yet still attacking my self-esteem. Like Iād be like I can do it no matter what and then when Iām not able to I blame myself subconsciously.
I can imagine how excessive self-reliance is depleting you quickly. And then you blame yourself when you’re burnt out and haven’t succeeded in your (Herculean) task. You’re expecting a lot (too much) of yourself, you give yourself (too) big tasks, and then you’re putting yourself down when you don’t succeed. Would you agree with that?
Because in my head Iām like what others can do? I have to rely on myself to get things done.
I think that’s your core belief speaking: I have to rely on myself to get things done. No one will help me.
So your false core belief could be: I have to rely on myself.
Because my trust issues adds up in this as well. But we can change our āmodus operandiā right? How youāre still coping with feeling helpless?
Yes, we can change our modus operandi. A part of it is changing our false core beliefs. Mine would be “I am helpless”. Yours would be “I have to rely on myself”.
Yeah, I guess my mother thought peace in the family means more than my protection or my mental health and to be honest even now my parents arenāt much aware about like mental health is a thing. They think if youāre getting basic needs, you should be happier and kind of materialistic happiness. Because of the small village mentality.
Same here: peace (no conflict) was more important for my father, and they didn’t think mental health is that important. They were otherwise educated and all that, but still, it was long ago when I was a child, and they were still applying a lot of the “old school” upbringing methods, specially my mother.
Also My mother did told me most of her life all she did is just calm my fatherās anger because of relatives and other things going on. Which I think is very toxic on my fatherās side.
Yes, same here. My father was trying to calm down my mother, I think he believed she was emotionally fragile and would break down if he were stricter with her, i.e. if he set some boundaries. I think he was protecting her from mental breakdown, in fact. But he did us all a disservice, because he just enabled her toxic behavior, which had a huge negative impact on me (much more than on him, because he could disconnect and emotionally numb himself, which he did. But I couldn’t – I grew up in it and it formed me.)
I guess she just didnāt think about standing up for herself. Which could be the same case for your father?
Yeah, I think the key issue for my father was his own upbringing with a “martyr” covert narcissistic mother and him always suppressing his needs to trying to make his mother happy. That was what formed him. And my mother was a similar “martyr” (in her own eyes), though not narcissistic. But his dynamic was similar: trying to please and appease his mother, and later his wife. So there was no way he would stand up for himself. I mean, he did have success in his career, but he was pretty suppressed at home.
For your mother, she was perhaps financially dependent on your father as well, so that came into play as well? And the whole patriarchy thing, which I guess was still strong while you were growing up, right? So I can see why it might have been more difficult for her to standup for herself than it was for my father.
Yeah thatās right and I think main issue here is our ruined self-esteem as a result which isnāt easier to heal faster. So now that you are aware that you werenāt the faulty child yet itās still rooted in you? Thatās what you mean?
No, I don’t believe I am unworthy any more, but I still have a lot of procrastination when it comes to my career and the things I’d like to achieve. It’s like I am frozen a bit. And having all these health issues, and worrying about them, isn’t helping either: it makes me worry about it and ruminate and I end up feeling paralyzed. Like, I know what I want, but I am not working towards it.
It’s related to my childhood “freeze” I think, where my mother feared too much for me and was the happiest when I was by her side, in “safety”. Riding a bike was seen as risky by her, so my parents never bought me a bike and I never learned how to ride (I think I’ve told you that already). So it’s this “deep freeze”, deep fear of facing challenges.
In my case luckily itās not bad as before (But still) I do feel I have to achieve much more and Iām not good enough just yet.
Yeah, it seems your sense of not being good enough manifests in you pushing yourself above the limits, expecting too much of yourself (and believing you need to do it all by yourself). Whereas for me, I am not pushing myself at all, I am frozen. Again, we have the opposite reaction to a similar injury…
It’s like you would need to tell yourself: “I am good enough and I am doing enough“. And I would need to tell myself “I am good enough and I can do this next step.” Perhaps š
I’m going to pause here and reply to the rest of your post a bit later…
Take care!
TeeParticipantHi Beni,
Yes, it can be seen on the scan. Ah and I have the thing where part of the spine is not connected. (Spindolysis)
good that you have it confirmed by a scan. And spondylosis – isn’t it like arthritis of the spine (calcification of the facet joints, thinning of the discs etc)? Not sure what you mean by part of the spine not connected?
I was Skating a 3.5m high half pipe the day before and there was no ladder then you run up a lot.
Oh I see… I can imagine that causes a pretty big stress on the spine, and as you said, an uneven (asymmetrical) load.
I wonder what Iāve done for shure a lot and only a few things constant. I did the intrusion where they inject cortisol close to the spine. I went surfing in Norway maybe it was the change of environment or the intrusion cause it went better then. Cycling was the best for pain relief. I couldnāt stand more than 10 min and in the beginning I needed to cycle in the middle of the night to get some relief. I brought a bike to Norway I would feel insecure without it. Hanging is good and I did it occasionally also many people told me this. Stretching calves and hip flexors. And to feel my abs and back muscles conscious. I tried to force posture by time and then let go of it again. Ah and dry needling might have helped too.
Oh wow, you did a lot! My pain wasn’t so unbearable that I would need a cortisol injection, it was about 4-5 max (in rare instances more than that). But it was persistant, nothing I did seemed to help. In the beginning the doctor told me that it would last for about 2 months, but it had been dragging for much longer, and then in the summer I experienced some improvement.
Like you, I too can’t sit (or stand) for too long, need to take regular walks, because that’s what helps “lubricate” the spine. And doing core exercises for the abs and back muscles, just like you said. Because I had a bad posture before and weak back muscles. And also, due to my knee injury 3 years prior, I was walking/hiking less, so I guess my spine didn’t get proper exercise (and there was uneven loading as well). It’s all connected, and I guess one thing lead to another.
I am glad cycling (and all the other stuff) helped you and that you are mostly pain free now. And I assume you are young, so that’s a bonus. I know some personal trainers on youtube who had a disc bulge or even a disc rupture in their 20s, and they recovered and are totally pain free now. But I guess you do need to be careful about the kind of moves you do, because you don’t want to aggravate the pain unnecessarily.
This monk told me to never push when I was moving a cart and that I should use the weight of my body (I was already out of breath then ).
Yeah, the bigger the distance between the load and your core, the bigger the stress on your spine. I can do much less physical work, even house work, than before, and that’s something I am not happy about either :/
When I had the injury I pushed myself with my mind I noticed that I just could keep going if I kept pushing I thought thatās how to progress. Itās the opposite of play. Itās kinda that I moved my body with my mind. In my body this creates tension.
Yeah, don’t push yourself. Every trainer who has experience with spinal injury will tell you not to push yourself. Maybe a little, till the pain is 3-4, but never beyond that, because that’s when the inflammation starts and you’re doing yourself more harm than good.
My body somehow knows what can be done I just need to listen and let it happen.
Yeah.. but do be careful with certain moves though. Are you still skating?
Do you expirience the pain on a specific side? And rather in the legs or in the back itself?
No, I never really had sciatica, only the pain in my lower back, in the sacral area. I felt some tension in my sciatica at one point, but never really pain. You can take vitamin B6 (or B-complex) for your nerve health. Whenever I felt this tension in my sciatica, I would take vitamin B pills and it would go away.
I feel more pain on the left side btw, because it’s a left-protruding bulge. In the beginning there was a stark difference between the left and the right side, because the right side was completely pain-free. But then it kind of got more diffuse. So now when it hurts, it hurts on both sides, though more on the left.
TeeParticipantHey Beni,
I got that too and itās on the sciatic and the piriformis muscle in the butt might do the same.
yeah, piriformis can press on the sciatic nerve too. But since you feel it while lifting something heavy, I guess it has to be a disc bulge, right? Did you get a scan to have it confirmed?
I donāt really have pain itās more like my right leg, right back feels different by times mostly when emotional or when I lift too heavy. I donāt know how reliable it is.
Do you also feel it while snowboarding/skateboarding? You mentioned that you sometimes fall and experience pain, and then you start fearing a little… is it your sciatic pain that you feel when you fall?
I can imagine and worry how it is to find new strategies for self regulation when those things donāt work at all. It broke me last spring when I was in pain a lot and that is one thing.
I am glad you are now better, not experiencing so much pain. You said it was caused by a lot of physical activity. Was it caused by heavy lifting by any chance? Sometimes people get a disc bulge while weight lifting, or even by working their leg muscles in the gym.
Have you done some exercises for pain relief after it happened? Or it just went away on its own?
I feel relieved to read that you find wayās to live with it and function cause it showās that itās possible.
Yeah, I went to physical therapy (after it was determined it was a disc bulge), but it didn’t respond that well at first. But then I did a lot of swimming in the summer (swimming on my back), and that finally helped. Now I am maintaining it with regular exercise at home, light walks and cautious lifestyle, as I said. And a more positive mindset as well. But I feel I wouldn’t be able to ski or do any sports with my injury, so it’s very limiting š
Maybe there is a way to make progress with it, maybe to exercise more, push myself more. But I am a bit apprehensive to push myself too much, because it starts hurting. So far I am happy that I can maintain this relatively low level of pain, even if it limits me quite a bit.
Cool, thanks for sharing.
You are welcome!
Hiooo to you too š
February 25, 2024 at 3:52 am in reply to: Understanding someone who's recently divorced and not ready #428132TeeParticipantDear Dafne,
you are very welcome! As for the nice smiley picture, that’s Lori, the site owner. I am just a member here, and haven’t set a profile picture š
Thank you for showing me your understanding & compassion that I could not find in my family home as a child and even now in my adult life.
You are very welcome, Dafne. You deserve to be treated with kindness and respect, totally opposite of how your father treated you and is still treating you. What you’ve experienced from him is total rejection, whereas what you need is to be seen, accepted and appreciated.
Remember what we were talking about in the beginning: that you need from a man to be seen and appreciated for who you are, not as a sex object. Your father never saw you for who you are. Unfortunately he rejected you, and that’s why you are now longing for a positive father figure, for a man who is willing to care for you and show you that love and tenderness that you’ve never received from your father. So yes, you are right about this:
I felt so sad, disappointed & hurt that I cried many nights like a small child. Maybe Iām trying too hard to recreate what Iāve lost as a child which is impossible?
You were trying to receive now, once your reconnected with your father, what you haven’t received from him in your childhood. But unfortunately, he hasn’t changed, he remained that same selfish, cold-hearted person, who doesn’t know what love is. And it hurts, I know it hurts.
But you need to know that 1) it’s not your fault that your father is incapable of true love, and 2) there is a way to make up for the love, care and appreciation that you haven’t received in childhood. There is a way to make up for those unmet emotional needs, and then your entire inner world will change. How you view yourself will change, your self-confidence and self-respect will increase, and your ability to be happy too.
I donāt really feel like dating anymore. I feel like I canāt trust people and also I get easily discouraged.
I think it’s a good idea to give yourself a break from dating for the time being. Not because I think you’ll never find a suitable man, but because I think it would be better if you focused on your own healing. On changing your inner landscape and healing those emotional wounds.
You said a while ago:
I still believe that our man should be like a real father figure (protector and provider) and being needy is human. Maybe some men like that? Maybe if we do not go overboard with our emotions, it is something to cherish and not to eliminate?
Yes, it’s okay to have needs. Our need for love, appreciation, respect etc is legitimate. And we want that our partner be someone who does love, appreciate and respect us. The problem is that if haven’t healed our childhood wounds, we will feel unlovable and unworthy. And because of that, we will have a tendency to attract men who actually treat us as if we were unlovable and unworthy.
To give you some examples: a person with no self-respect will likely get into abusive relationships and might not even recognize they are being abused, or if they do recognize it, they won’t have the confidence to stand up for themselves or leave. They might believe they deserve to be treated poorly. They may wait and wait for their abusive partner to show them some love and respect, and it never happens. They might think it’s their fault that their partner is abusive, and they blame themselves and try to become “better”, instead of realizing that the problem is in their abusive partner.
You see what I mean? An emotionally healthy person knows what they need, what is good for them, and how a healthy partner looks like. Someone with unmet childhood needs on the other hand, won’t be able to know what is good for them, they will be confused, and they will tolerate abuse for way too long. They will even be attracted to unhealthy, toxic people, because that’s the only kind of “love” they know – that’s what they’ve received from their parents.
So yes, having needs is human. But there are healthy, legitimate needs and healthy ways to meet those needs. And there are unhealthy needs: when we expect too much of our partner, we are too sensitive, we get offended too easily, we are possessive, we are jealous when our man talks to another woman, etc. We want our needs to be healthy, we don’t want to be possessive, controlling, easily offended, etc.
But we also don’t want to be treated like a doormat: we don’t want to accept abuse, manipulation, humiliation, receiving breadcrumbs instead of real love.
You see? We want to have healthy needs, which means that wee don’t expect the impossible from our partner. But we also want healthy boundaries, which means that we don’t allow to be treated with disrespect by our partner. Healthy needs and healthy boundaries go hand in hand.
You said that talking to this last guy was emotionally draining (since he was talking about his ex-wife and his stepson, as well as about having his health as one of his priorities). You felt that him staying in touch with his ex and his stepson was a proof that he is still living in his past, and that he should grow out of it:
I told him politely that I want to focus now on creating life with someone new and not live their past. He should learn from it by now. It was a bit emotionally draining for me.
This might have been a projection on your part, because it doesn’t mean that he still had feelings for his ex, even if he talks to her from time to time. Maybe there was a practical reason why they were still in touch, e.g. because he wanted to stay in touch with his stepson.
Anyway, even if you were polite and “casual” in telling him that (I was quite casual and only said that past is past and I want someone who starts a new chapter with me.), it was still emotionally charged for you. You didn’t like it and he could probably feel it, even if you didn’t say it in so many words.
I am not saying that this is what drove him away, since it could have been various other reasons, even reasons that don’t have anything to do with you. But what I am trying to say is that in my view, your expectation of him to not have any other major interests in life (such as his health) and not to keep in touch with his ex and his stepson – might have been unhealthy expectations. What I mentioned above: expecting too much of your partner. And that would be because of your own unmet childhood needs. So instead of a healthy need, your need might be a bit over the top, a bit too much for a guy to fulfill.
That’s why I believe it would be best if in the next phase you would focus on your own healing, on meeting those childhood emotional needs, with the help of therapy, if possible.
That’s how you can come to a place of having both healthy needs (i.e. healthy, realistic expectations of your partner), and healthy boundaries (not allowing abuse, manipulation and disrespect).
I hope this is helpful to you, Dafne, and that you can continue to walk towards more and more healing. You’ve already grown immensely, you’ve realized some things about your father: that his heart is unfortunately closed and that you shouldn’t expect to get love from him. I hope you also know that his coldness is absolutely not your fault, because you are absolutely deserving of love, care and appreciation. Now the next thing is to start giving yourself that love, care and appreciation…
Warm hug to you too, and thank you for your kind words!
TeeParticipantHey Beni,
Iāll light a candle!
Very much appreciated!
I forgot to tell you the fundamental of what I write is. My back started hurting last spring. I feel glimpses of the pain (3-4%). Itās also me pushing myself which creates the condition and what the doc says. Itās confusing cause I expirience that itās what I belief is good and bad which creates this experience. I start to belief that to heal itās better to fully trust in my body rather then doing what makes the most sense. Thatās creating insecurity cause I do not know what Iām doing.
Oh I see, so you have back pain, slight though, and you’re afraid that doing certain moves while snowboarding or skateboarding might do you harm? And that’s what also your doctor says? But another part of you trusts your own body and wants to do those moves anyway?
What caused your pain, if I may ask? Did you injure yourself or it just came out of nowhere?
I too am suffering from back pain, got a herniated disc. And it came out of the blue, with no trauma, no wrong move or anything like that. I just bent to pick up something from the floor and that’s when the pain started.
When you get injured is it physical? I notice it changes as I get older. Iām more prone to injuries or sensitive to pain.
Yes, it’s physical. I’ve had physical injuries in the last 5 years that remained chronic (like knee and back pain), and this is limiting me quite a bit…
I think when I wrote it, it was more like that Iām so curious about this topic and thereās so much potential and hope that I have to talk about it as soon as the topic goes in such a direction. Itās in someway reactive and also authentic. Also I thought it might benefit you to hear it cause I see all that.
Yes, I am interested in that topic too, because of these injuries and chronic pain that I have to manage and live with. It was quite an adjustment, emotionally and mentally too, to suddenly have to live with physical limitations, to not be able to do the things you loved before. I had to grieve those things. It still causes me pain (emotional pain) but I’ve learned to accept it.
What helped a lot is also a more positive attitude towards my chronic back pain, like not catastrophizing, not believing it’s the end of the world, not fearing my every move, but believing that my body has the ability to recover, that it’s more resilient than I think. And even if I make a wrong move unintentionally, that I’ll be able to recover to my baseline, which is not pain-free, but with manageable pain, provided that I follow a pretty cautious lifestyle (unfortunately).
What also helped me a lot in managing my back pain is the whole idea that chronic pain is largely regulated by the brain and our perception of threat and danger. If we believe that every move is dangerous, we will be more tense, more anxious, and it will cause more physical pain.
This concept was first discovered by Dr. John Sarno, and now it is taught by Dr. Hanscom, Dr. Schubiner, as well as Tanner Murtagh, who is teaching the somatic tracking practice. He has a pretty cool youtube channel, with lots of exercises for tracking our body sensations and reducing chronic pain.
thereās so much potential and hope that I have to talk about it as soon as the topic goes in such a direction
As you can see, this topic can make me talk for hours š It came out of necessity, but it is what it is, I’ve learned a lot about it as I am trying to help myself…
TeeParticipantDear Worldofthewaterwheels,
I just want to slightly rephrase the second set ofĀ false beliefs, since false beliefs are always expressed in the “me” form:
People want me to fail. People want to hurt me. People are not to be trusted.
TeeParticipantDear Worldofthewaterwheels,
You are welcome!
There was no violence, no shouting even but my mom was always at the top and my dad often seems incredibly weak
Indeed, there are similarities with our families, although there was yelling in my family ā my mother couldn’t control her emotions and she would have angry outbursts at my father and me. When I became a teenager, I started yelling back, so there was conflict.
But my father never wanted conflict and he tried to appease my mother and calm her down. He allowed to be yelled at and insulted. I think he suppressed his own anger and numbed himself emotionally. I guess that’s how he could stay mostly unaffected by her insults and accusations (I mean, he could go about his life, he had professional successes and was respected at work. Just not at home).
But for me as a child, my mother’s constant complaints, bitterness and misery were devastating. I grew up in it, and it formed me. I never felt good enough and no matter what I did, it couldn’t make my mother happy. She too blamed everybody else (specially me and my father) for her unhappiness. She fits your description very well: “My mom could victimize herself easily with him being very apologetic.”
The result of it all is that I grew up believing I was bad and that there is something terribly wrong with me. Similarly like you believe about yourself: Its like there is something wrong with me and i cant put a finger on exactly what.
A bit more specifically, this is what you said about yourself:
i do loathe myself in the sense that, i cant seem to put a foot right..just nothing works out for me. Like i seemed to discover, oh! im a dorkā¦not a creative nerd. A real loser who can only fuck up.
The false core belief would be: I am a dork. I am a loser.
I am guessing it has been formed based on many instances of being put down and ridiculed by your mother. Or compared to others. It has been formed based on your mother’s general attitude to you: that there is something wrong with you.
First your mother believed you were not good enough, and was sending you this message, and then you started believing it too. It became your “truth”. Because as children, we believe our parents, they are our mirrors. Their behavior towards us tells who we are and if we are lovable and worthy or not. And if they say bad things about us, if they mistreat us, we believe them. We always blame ourselves, not our parents.
When we grow up, we still have that same false core belief working in us. And we sort of attract more of the similar experiences of failure and embarrassment. It becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Basically, if deep down you believe that you are a failure, you will indeed fail. And I think that’s been happening to you all these years.
***
You have another set of core beliefs, which is about other people. You believe that everybody is jealous of you and nobody wants you to succeed. I think that too is the result of your mother being jealous and competitive with you, even to this day when she isn’t happy when you achieve success but goes silent.
These are your experiences (in your adulthood) of people being jealous of you and trying to undermine you:
When i really did well, there was always someone in the crowd visibly unhappy and it would bother me.
There has always been someone more accomplished vying for my job, or next to me or coming up behind me. Always a boss who wanted more and made me feel like i wasnt enough. A boyfriend who needed more of something i didnt have. I never mastered a corner of the room for myself that somebody else couldnt do. So therefore i feel fairly worthless.
You get crushed by the people who are out there looking to win against other people. I feel like there is always a lot of jealousy around me and i cant control it, how others react to me, but it ruins everything.
I often feel angry that other people are rude, mean or wonder what their problem is. I know what it is thoughā¦they want attention.
When you read the above examples, does it apply to your childhood as well? Because my guess is that you’ve experienced something similar in the relationship with your mother, even as a child and young adult, and that’s where the main wound stems from.
The main false belief in this area of your life (area of relationships) would be: People want you to fail. People want to hurt you. People are not to be trusted.
This unconscious belief is what directs your relationships and how you see people. And that too becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.
As Anita said, there were for sure instances where people wanted to harm you and take advantage of you. But there were probably also instances where you misinterpreted their intentions, or where you approached them with mistrust, ready to defend yourself (i have to defend myself against what i perceive as possible danger right?), and they didn’t like it.
My take is that a part of your experiences (not all) is based on these false beliefs that run in the back of your mind, and attract such events. I am writing this not to dispute your reality, but to tell you that there is more to experience, that there is a broader reality, in which not everybody is out to get you, and in which you are not a dork but a wonderful and creative person.
These false beliefs were created due to repeated negative experiences with our parents, but they can be reversed, with healing.
What do you think of all this?
TeeParticipantHey Beni,
Soundās like a not boring at all and very challenging situation your in.
Haha, not boring at all! I wish my life were boring and I were free from all of these “surprises”…
Itās so crazy when many thingās hit at once. I wish that you can be loose of your struggle soon and feel healthy. It feels light to read that you get a little hold on things and being able to have some control.
Thank you, Beni. I hope too that the struggle will lessen. And yeah, I know how to calm myself down a bit, so I am not freaking out that much.
I got inspired by Peter Levine (and Vipassana) itās worth to check him out if youāre not knowing him yet.
Yes, I am familiar with Peter Levine’s work. Pretty amazing stuff. I’ve recently discovered one of his students, who is now a teacher herself: Irene Lyon. She has a youtube channel with many great videos on the nervous system, chronic pain and the body. You might want to check her out too.
She too was a heavy-duty skier in her youth, and a fitness trainer. She had some injuries which she managed to heal with the Feldenkreis method. Later she started working with Peter Levine and developed her own trainings… Anyway, I’ve learned a lot from her.
I have been observing that when Iām in touch and I fall on a Skateboard it does not hurt itās kind of a sweet pain. As soon as there is a slight pressure (my mind wants to take control). I get more stiff it hurts and I feel I can get injured. I belief if Iām patient to wait for risky things to do with confidence, trust and flow chances high I donāt get injured.
Okay, we are in slightly different situations, because I am pretty risk averse and would be afraid to get into sports where one can fall a lot š But if that’s your forte, and you want to master somewhat riskier sports, cool. But do be careful and yes, be patient till you are ready to do riskier moves.
Iām not what is making my condition worse
alwaysthe last 4 times I observed when Iām in pain thereās also guilt or abandonment around and not only as science sayās wrong movement.You mean you feel guilty for bringing yourself into a risky situation? And feeling abandoned by good fortune/universe when you do fall and injure yourself?
I might just feel this way because I belief itās not good for me.
Just trying to understand here: a part of you believes that doing those risky moves is not good for you?
Placebo is a deal and Iām scared but also it feels right to not take science too serious cause of the effect it has on my bodymind. Itās like itās right for the thinking but wrong for the heart.
Hm.. not sure what you mean here? Are you saying that you injure yourself because a part of you believes that risky moves/extreme sports aren’t good for you? That this thinking serves like a “placebo”, which makes you more prone to mistakes while skiing/skating?
Sorry if I misunderstood you… It’s an interesting topic by all means and I’d like to understand more of your dilemma.
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