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  • Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    as I am thinking about your situation, two main things come to mind. One is that she is accusing you, unfairly, of making her prostitute herself, and “ruining her self-esteem”.

    She told you that she was heart-broken after you asked her if she was a gold-digger, and this made her sleep with a married man for money.

    B also told me that she was heart broken and in pain cause of the break up, saying she felt abandoned by me

    I’ve explained to you why this is bs, because no heartbreak can cause a normal person to humiliate themselves like that, unless they are traumatized and broken inside to begin with. Her reaction to your offense was disproportionate, and there is no way that a normal person would do what she did. She is blaming you and guilt-tripping you for something she should take responsibility for.

    She is also blaming you (and your parents) that you ruined her self-esteem:

    She also kept accusing me and my parents of being racists and ruining her life and self esteem etc by discriminating against her cause of her skin tone

    First, nobody forces her to stay with you. She is the one begging for a second chance. If she believes you are ruining her life, she is free to go.

    And second, at the age of 24, she is an adult, she either has self-esteem, or she doesn’t. And you can’t ruin it for her. Based on how she behaves, it seems that her self-esteem has already been ruined in her childhood and youth. That’s why she could sleep with a guy for money. That’s why she sees herself as a sex object and craves male attention. So again, it is very unfair to blame you for her lack of self-esteem or for “ruining her life”.

    To summarize, B is blaming you and guilt-tripping you for something that is NOT you fault. She has wounds and self-esteem issues that predate you, but instead of admitting it and taking responsibility for it, she found someone to blame: you. She keeps transgressing (to use a Bible term), but instead of taking responsibility for her actions, she keeps blaming you. Very unfair. And abusive.

    She is abusing you in two ways: one is by her hurtful actions, such an lying, cheating, sexually explicit behavior etc. And the other is by BLAMING you for it. So she is hurting you twice.

    Another problem, which makes your conflicts more explosive, is your attitude towards women, which you adopted from your father, and which frankly is misogynist. It would hurt every woman to tell her that “most women are gold-diggers”. Or “women do stupid things, and it’s normal for them.” It is very offensive.

    However, I don’t want to put the stress on that right now. That’s another topic. What I want to emphasize right now is that B is abusing you, not only by her actions, but by unjustly blaming you for those actions.

    Can you see that?

     

    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    The factors that affected you will not be the same factors that affect me, and therefore the solutions you suggest won’t work in certain situations

    The funny thing is that regardless of where we were born, and in what circumstances, every child needs the same to be happy and healthy. The basic needs of a child are to be loved, appreciated, seen, validated, supported and encouraged by their parents of primary caregivers. These needs are like sunshine, water and soil for a plant to thrive. Without them, we will wither. Maybe not physically, but emotionally for sure.

    Unfortunately you had very few of those needs met. And that’s why your inner child is hurting and still wants to have those needs met.

    Some of those needs were met by B, and that’s probably one of the reasons you grew so attached to her. This is what you said about B:

    she tried her best with my emotional needs as well, I just didn’t think of listing them which is why I said etc. She tries to motivate me whenever the stress of medicine gets to me. She even supported my music development, computer engineering projects etc.

    So she encouraged you to do what you love…. whereas your parents discouraged you:

    They have never listened to me. Always discouraging me from what I wanted to do. Even this med career was their fault. I never wanted this. I wanted to do music or computers.

    Being encouraged meant a lot to you (it means a lot to everyone!). It also includes being seen for who you are, appreciated for who you are as a person, not trying to change you. You spoke more about it here:

    I was never offered a chance to show my real personality to anyone, so they all pushed me away. The one person who didn’t push me away was B.

    She saw you and accepted you for who you are. She didn’t reject you, like your parents did. You felt seen and accepted by her, haven’t you?

    She is the first person to have ever loved me. 
 She was the only person who treated me like I meant something,

    She was the opposite from your parents in some aspects, and it felt so good to you (and your inner child). You felt loved when she treated you like that. So loved that you were willing to disregard all the hurt she caused you by having sex (or sexting) with other men after each of your (very frequent) fights.

    I know I am repeating myself, but I’ll say it once again: I think that she might be using sex (or sexual behavior, such as sexting) as an emotion regulation strategy, as a coping mechanism, when she feels bad about herself. That’s why I suggested it might be like an addiction, because she kept doing it, even if she promised she wouldn’t. I believe the only way for her to really stop is to a) admit she has a problem, and b) starts working in it in therapy.

    You are still deliberating whether to give her another chance, because to paraphrase you, “everybody deserves another chance”, “things are complex”, “I need to consider all factors” etc etc. Well, you already gave her plenty of chances, and as I’ve explained above, people with addiction/compulsion cannot change unless they truly heal and transform from within. Which she hasn’t done, and she cannot do without a serious dedication on her part and professional help. You explaining to her why it is wrong, or begging her not to do it, won’t cut it.

    Anyway, as I said above, I think the real reason why you can’t let her go is because she was meeting some of your unmet childhood needs (such as the need for acceptance and validation).

    And it felt so good, to the point that you thought she was “wife material”, completely disregarding the entire range of very un-wifey behaviors, such as lying to you, sleeping with other men, sexting etc.

    But your reaction is not strange. In fact, this is what typically happens when we have unmet childhood needs, because we then blindly stick to the person who gives us even a fraction of what we needed as a child. Even if they are abusing us in other ways.

    She was a mix of positive and negative (quite negative, I should say), but you were tempted to endure the negative, just so you could have the positive.

    Your inner child wants her (the positive aspects of her), and then your rational mind is trying to find excuses why you should give her another chance. These rationalizations are driven by your inner child – by your emotional hunger – not by any sound logic.

    This is why it’s important that we meet our unmet emotional needs from childhood – because they are like hungry wolves, howling and wanting, even if it goes against our own well-being. Mind you, those needs are legitimate, but they need to be met by proper inner work and healing, not by expecting others to meet them for us.

    You said one of your subjects is psychology. There is a great video by a licensed therapist Kati Morton, who is talking about those unmet needs. It’s on youtube, titled 10 things you parents should have provided. It’s worth watching…

     

    in reply to: How can I do what I wan’t to do with joy? #430353
    Tee
    Participant

    Hi Beni,

    Thanks, I need to hear this over and over.

    You are welcome! You are welcome to take your time and reply at your own pace, as you feel the impulse from within.

    Mhh, I wonder I actually am sick once a month an now since 3 weeks. Feeling exhausted, last week rather stiff, ill and headache this week more a cold, less dizzy.

    Oh… so you’re usually sick once a month with similar symptoms? But now it’s been lasting for 3 weeks, with symptoms ranging from exhaustion, feeling cold, feeling stiff, headaches etc. Sorry about that :/

    Could be that your immune system is out of whack. Have you seen a doctor, or you already know this state, so it’s not something to seek help for?

    Do I get you right, you put more stress on your back like exercise and now it started hurting?

    No, I haven’t actually exercised more vigorously, I haven’t done anything to cause it.

    Maybe it is something like a flashback and you are more resilient and stable than you think.

    Actually I’ve been examining myself, and it could be psycho-somatic (I always seek possible mental causes of physical symptoms). So I kind of know what might be causing it.

    So yeah, you’re right, it’s probably not physical worsening (hopefully!), but more like a signal of something that I am not doing right in my life, a signal of a limitation of mine. And now it’s time to start addressing it.

    Is it rather that you wanna see yourself in a certain role in life doing a certain action to validate your existence?

    No, it’s not to validate my existence. I had that phase some years ago 🙂 At the time I thought I am not worthy, that my life has no importance, and that I can only make my life worthy if I do something that can help other people. I thought that would “validate” my existence.

    Since then I’ve realized that I am worthy just because I exist, simply by having been born, and I don’t need to do anything to prove my worth. However, I still have the need for achievement – not to prove myself to anybody, but to share my gifts and talents – to simply “shine my light” in a more deliberate way, if you will. So it’s kind of the need for self-expression and self-realization in one, you might say 🙂

    Yes, that’s it. Thanks for trying.

    Okay, let me repeat it here again: you don’t know what your contribution (to the world) should be, and you want to pray for clarity on that.

    My comment to that: how about listening within to what you want to offer to the world, rather than listening “without” (to a higher power to tell you)?

    If someone does not reply on a forum or the phone within a time it’s easy to feel rejected. … And I noticed that for me it’s hard to accept that my action is maybe not the cause but reminds a person at her vulnerability. My system sees danger if I do not take action I can get into ambivalence then.

    It can be painful to not do things. I feel helpless. It’s hard for me to let people wait.

    It sounds like if you don’t do things others expect from you (or you believe they expect), you fear that the person might feel rejected, and it causes you pain. And you feel helpless because you don’t want to hurt them, but at the same time, you don’t want to do it either. So you are conflicted. You feel ambivalence, and perhaps you freeze in that neither-nor state, not wanting to do it, but not able to reject it either. Am I interpreting this right?

    Thanks for asking Tee. Yes I do things in my pace, time and feel. It is like being a child and I think I need this type of space to flourish.

    It sounds like a healthy thing: to allow yourself time and space to flourish, not judging yourself, not rushing yourself, but being like a good parent, or a good friend, to yourself.

     

    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    I have been having exams for the last few weeks and I have been focusing on them. I tried my best not to let the break up affect my studying. The way you tell me to heal makes it sound so simple.

    It’s not simple. I think it would need a paradigm shift (mental shift), as well as emotional healing. And it’s a long process. But you are only 19, your adult life is only beginning.

    I think perhaps one of the starting points could be to realize that there are some serious deficiencies in your father’s wisdom, in his approach to life. Because someone who is not in touch with their emotions cannot be a wise man, per definition. You mentioned his wisdom several times:

    my father’s wisdom was passed down to me over the years that he taught me.

    I have chosen to forgive my parents because they do not know any better and their wisdom still taught me to be a good man to the best of my ability.

    What your father passed on you is probably a set of moral codes and rules for life. But he wasn’t able to pass on you the wisdom of the heart: compassion, empathy and understanding for others. You have those qualities inside of you, but if you start believing that the best way is to cut off your feelings, so they don’t bother you, then the wisdom of the heart – which you do possess – will be lost on you too.

    But that trauma has made him compassionate enough to WANT to understand, but he is INCAPABLE OF UNDERSTANDING.

    he asks me to open up but his inability to understand forces me to never open up to him because all he points out is how my feelings are wrong instead of understanding why I am feeling the way I feel.

    He asks you to open up, not because he wants to understand you, but because he wants to prove how wrong you are. He doesn’t really want to understand. He is stubborn (your own words) and believes he knows better. That’s not a sign of any kind of compassion: his trauma seems to have made him very stubborn and defensive, very closed to a different perspective.

    You said: They have never listened to me.

    Your father never tried to understand you. He pretended he wanted to (he would ask you to open up), but then he would invalidate your feelings. And it seems he had a skill of being very convincing:

    there were moments like guilt-tripping and other similar circumstances where they would manipulate me into doing what they want without complaining (my father is a pro at psychology, and he is so rigid that everyone, whether it be his own boss, his friends, or our own relatives, knows that he should not be messed with because he always speaks the truth and can put anyone in their place by using pure logic.)

    Your father seems to be pro in convincing you (and others) to accept his views and opinions. He seems like someone who is convinced that only his stance is right, and no discussion about it. What he does then is a kind of mental coercion. In his mind, there is no space for listening to a different opinion: his word is “the truth”. End of story.

    I guess he used similar methods to convince you to study medicine, listing all the reasons why medicine is the best choice. But to be a good doctor, you have to love what you do. And you already have some doubts about it:

    The career path to become a doctor gurantees that I will be successful in life especially since I can handle the work load to a degree, but will I be happy doing this? Probably not. Though I like helping people, I don’t think med is the best way for me to help people.

    I am not saying to stop studying medicine, not at all. I am just saying to stop accepting that you need to be unhappy for the rest of your life, just to please your father, or your parents.

    Your father might have convinced you, with his “pure logic”, that medicine is the best option for you. He convinced you to give up what you love, for what is useful or opportune. And you accepted it: you accepted that your life must be as your parents construed, and nothing else. You accepted that you need to obey your parents’ wishes, even if it makes you miserable.

    I would like to invite you to challenge that stance of complete submission to your parents. They proved that they don’t know what’s best for you. For example, they know nothing about mental health. They’re not able to give you guidance on true happiness and fulfillment, which is still achievable for you. So please don’t accept everything they tell you, don’t give up on your own wishes and desires.

    I’d encourage you to re-evaluate things, e.g. see what subjects you like better, see your preferences. Allow yourself to feel your likes and dislikes. Just feel them, don’t crush them immediately. That can be the beginning of your healing.

     

    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    You are right that my parents did not need to crush the person who is having the suicidal feelings. But they did what they did and I consider that the past, something that I have moved on from a long time ago.

    It is not the past unfortunately. The pain your spoke about and the feelings of emptiness and wishing you were never born, which you’ve shared here, are all the consequences of being treated like that by your parents. Your pain is current, it is still ongoing, even if the events happened quite a few years ago.

    My father is not highly educated. Both of my parents only had a community college level basic education.

    I was referring you what you said that your father has “a highly respected and high-earning job as a marine electrical engineer in cruise ships and cargo ships“. He has college education, as does your mother.

    For someone with college education, living in the 21st century, they should know that when a child or a teenager has suicidal ideations, and even attempts suicide, is an alarm bell that something is going on in their psyche and that it should be carefully addressed. Berating and shaming their child in such a sensitive moment, instead of seeking professional help, is to me a sign of wilful negligence, I have to say. Their reaction is an example of severe emotional abuse.

    What is worse is that your father had childhood trauma himself. You said:

    He was … abandoned and belittled and treated like trash by his own family and distant relatives too, and he was traumatized by an incident when he was 5 where he was falsely accused of stealing 10 cents and was tortured for weeks with physical beating by his teacher until he had to admit to stealing to stop the pain, even though he did not steal the money.

    You went on to say:

    The trauma from that incident was so severe that I have seen him cry about it even now and he is almost 50 years old. But these harsh situations made him grow his resolve to be better than everyone who treated him poorly, to the point that he was the only person to have a highly respected and high-earning job as a marine electrical engineer in cruise ships and cargo ships, while everyone else had average engineering jobs or teacher jobs etc.

    As a result of his severe childhood trauma, your father got better in terms of his career, his professional success, than any other member of his family, or perhaps even a wider community. However, his trauma unfortunately hasn’t made him more compassionate, neither towards himself nor his own son.

    He clearly suppressed his pain and marched on, having no time for stupidities like emotions. He was of the conviction that men “do not have time to feel pain. We have responsibilities and other issues to worry about.”

    And he believes that those who can’t simply shake off their pain and their trauma are idiots. If you are a man and you can’t clench your teeth in the face of pain and proceed with your responsibilities – you are an idiot. That’s approximately the message he has given you.

    Can you see this?

    And now, you are being drawn into the same kind of reasoning. At least one part of you is: the part who is making excuses for your father and saying that the best is to just press on and clench your teeth:

    It is too late to be Godwin-the-child, I have a med degree to finish and I am too old to be behaving like a child. I should be focusing on my future career and etc. Med is already a pain on my behind so I do not have the time nor energy to share to Godwin-the-child.

    You asked me how to heal. By acknowledging that there is a wounded part in you, your inner child, who is still very much alive and very much influencing you, even if you don’t care to admit it. And then getting in touch with him and his emotional needs, which have been suppressed and dismissed all these years.

     

    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    I would like to separate our debate about women in the modern society (which I will address too), from the fact that you have suffered emotional abuse and neglect by your parents, regardless of whether they did it on purpose or not. Of course, they didn’t do it on purpose – they did what they thought was right. But nevertheless, it still caused severe emotional harm to you. And this harm needs to be addressed and healed – if you want to have a fulfilling life and a healthy relationship/marriage.

    You’ve opened up and shared your pain and your vulnerability on this thread, and I appreciate it, and would like to help you. You did indeed suffer from B’s poor treatment, as well as from your parents’ poor treatment. And a part of you knows it. You’ve shared about it extensively.

    But there is this other part, which got stronger in recent posts, where you minimize the pain you’ve suffered and seek to find excuses to basically stay within the confines of your parents’ worldview. You said:

    The only reason my parents shut down my feelings is because they cannot comprehend my feelings. They cannot comprehend the pain that a suicidal person is going through.

    If they cannot comprehend feelings, it doesn’t mean they need to crush the person who is having those feelings (you). They could have (and should have) taken you to a psychologist after you suicide attempt. But instead, your mother told you you’ve caused them humiliation, while your father said that suicidal people are idiots:

    He is the type of person that constantly tells me that suicidal people are idiots and etc.

    This attitude is more than ignorance. It is called wilful ignorance: when someone has the capacity to understand, and has access to relevant information, but they don’t want to. You say your father is highly educated, and yet he was capable of (ignorantly ) claiming that suicidal people are idiots.

    I would like to communicate with the part of you who sees how damaging this was, and who stops making excuses. You don’t have to hate your parents, I am not saying that, but just stop making excuses for them. And start focusing on healing the pain they’ve caused you, rather than finding “proofs” that how they did things was actually right.

     

    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    And due to that level of self control, I am able to lead a much more normal life, with less pain and suffering. It’s just everything is dull now. .. It’s like I literally feel nothing. No pain. No joy. No sorrow. No anger. Its like I am numb to all of it. Do you understand what I mean?

    Yes, I do. I think that’s called dissociation. It’s a coping mechanism – how we cope with uncomfortable emotions. It can be okay for a short while, not to get overwhelmed. However it’s not good on the long run, because as you said, you feel numb. It’s like being a robot. You can function and complete your tasks, but you are not really living, because you’re not feeling anything.

    The problem is that we cannot selectively switch off just the unpleasant emotions while keeping the pleasant ones – we have to switch it all off. But if we do that, it makes us less alive and less fulfilled.

    My father never said that, I actually heard other men say it, but my father said it through his actions.

    Okay, so he did send you that message.

    Besides you should know it is a common stereotype that society built of us men. Men are these strong unwavering figures that never cry and women are these weak emotional creatures etc. (I am exaggerating a bit but you get the point).

    Hmm, maybe it was like that 50-70 years ago in the modern Western society, and still is in other societies and cultures around the world. I don’t know where you live, but in the West, this stereotype is no longer valid.

    But I did notice remnants of this stereotype in your writings. For example, you said this about B:

    She displayed all the characteristics that I was looking for in a good wife, excluding the stupid things that most woman do, like overthinking and not listening etc, which I did not mind cause I knew it was normal for women.

    This is a negative bias towards women: that women do stupid things, and that it’s normal for them. That’s an attitude that you probably picked up from your father, and basically, it’s male chauvinism. You saw B through that lens too. And you actually used it as one of the excuses for forgiving her, because she, as a woman, cannot help but do stupid things. I am not sure if you aware of this bias, but it is present in your writings.

    That is the type of view that society has normalized, to the point that women just choose to leave their man the moment they see them cry, cause they see them as weak and etc.

    I don’t know of this new “normal”, where women leave their man if he shows tears. For all I know, women are happy to have a partner who is in touch with their emotions. Where did you hear or see that women don’t want sensitive men?

    Men should be allowed to feel pain, but it has been normalized that men shouldn’t feel pain. Men have to hide their tears, show a strong face whenever something bad happens. And unfortunately, I am a victim to that too.

    It was like that in the old times. You did say that your parents are old school (It is just that their methods are a bit too old fashioned. They are too narrow minded to accept change in life style.) So I guess they’ve brought you up with this outdated stereotype about how a true man and a true woman should be.

    And yes, you are a victim of that stereotype, specially the part where you as a man are not supposed to show emotions and vulnerability.

    Besides, I do not plan to let anyone see me in my vulnerable state of misery that I am in right now. It is just better this way.

    Yes, because your parents told you a man shouldn’t show vulnerability to anyone… But there is no true intimacy, emotional intimacy, without vulnerability. I believe that a good, loving husband should be able to show vulnerability in front of his wife. It doesn’t mean he is weak, but that he has a beating heart and that things affect him.

    That is very true, but sometimes, for certain decisions to be made, you need to cut out your emotions. I would not have been able to detach from B if I didn’t shut out my emotions.

    Good that you managed to do that, because your pain was really overwhelming. But you yourself said it made you numb. So it’s not a good state to stay in on the long run.

    You can’t really heal in this numb state (you said “But now that she used up all her chances and made me break up with her, I am slowly healing.) True healing will only come if you process this pain, slowly but surely, in a safe, controlled environment (in therapy). We can’t really heal if we have suppressed emotions.

    Emotions such as fear and love and anger can end up causing you to make the wrong decisions, B being the prime example. Despite knowing that what she was doing was wrong, her fear and love for her aunt made her go along with her plan. Look at where it got her.

    Indeed, emotions can cause us harm. If we fall in love with a wrong person, it can cause us harm too. But is the solution not to fall in love at all? Or is it rather that we heal enough, so we can recognize who a good, healthy partner is, and who isn’t?

     

    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    I think my parents were neglecting my pain to let me grow into someone that is not affected by pain like this. As a result, though I feel pain in leaving B, I am able to live a much more normal life than I would have been.

    Are you really able to live a normal life, dear Paradoxy? You said the pain regarding B has been eating you up, destroying you, you couldn’t sleep for 3 months, you “have been going through a depressed phase of just wanting the pain to end, whether it be through death or amnesia or something“. You said the pain has ruined you.

    So am I actually neglecting my pain or am I choosing to push it to the back of my mind cause I have other priorities like studying for my med exam and other things that should not be affected by my pain?

    Are you really not affected by pain, Paradoxy? Your words on wanting to go back in time and wipe out your own existence are an alarming proof that you are in a great amount of pain. Otherwise you wouldn’t believe such things about yourself. So it is clear to me that you are very much affected by your pain, and that suppressing it hasn’t helped you at all.

    We do not have time to feel pain. We have responsibilities and other issues to worry about.

    This sounds like something your father would say. I imagine he was telling you such things, and from an early childhood. The truth is that even adult men should be allowed to feel their pain, not to mention little children.

    So I’d think twice if I’d want to follow that “wisdom”. And the thing is that we cannot be really wise if we lack emotional intelligence. Pure logic (which your father used) isn’t enough.

    I hope we can talk some more on true wisdom: one that includes both intellect and emotions.

     

    in reply to: How can I do what I wan’t to do with joy? #430207
    Tee
    Participant

    *correction: it started hurting for no apparent reason

    in reply to: How can I do what I wan’t to do with joy? #430206
    Tee
    Participant

    Hey Beni,

    Jap, I felt disconnected. I have day’s or times where I retreat into myself and I struggle to reach out. It feels like a stone on my heart, it’s harder to give love and share/show myself and also I got and still am sick :-/

    That’s okay if you don’t respond when you don’t feel like it. No pressure. I am sorry you got sick – is it something like the flu?

    I am again worse with regard to my back – it started hurting for apparent reason, without any wrong move, so I am perplexed. Not really panicking like last year, but it’s not a good feeling to go through it again, because I thought I’ve reached a certain state, where I was more resilient and more stable. But apparently not :\

    Are you saying that you wanna reach this goal cause it expresses values you want to see in the world?

    Well, it would be a positive contribution for the world, on a small scale of course, within my sphere of influence.

    I think that’s why it’s helpful to differentiate needs from the strategies to meet the need. I wanna pray for the need.

    You want to pray to know what you need to do? Like, you don’t know what your contribution (to the world) should be, and you want to pray for clarity on that? Sorry if I misunderstood you…

    I wanted to reply here and my mind was like now, now, now you have to do it. It can be painful to not do things. I feel helpless. It’s hard for me to let people wait.

    Ah, it sounds like you believe people have expectations on you, they want you to do something, and you feel pressured by it, and you don’t like it. (BTW there are no expectations from my side, so as far as I am concerned, please don’t feel pressured to reply).

    Anyhow I figured if I really wanna do it I will do it. I’ll do it without effort but I have to wait for it. Often I can’t do it any other way it’s just too painful.

    Okay, so you feel comfortable doing things at your own pace, in your own time, when you feel like it, not when someone tells you to do it, right? Is it related to your family and the expectations they have from you? Or other people’s expectations as well?

    BTW thanks for the lyrics. I see the entire booklet is called “Mantras for Miracles” – that’s nice, I’ll check it out.

     

    Tee
    Participant

    And Paradoxy,

    Thank you for kind words, I appreciate it.

    You are very welcome, I truly meant what I said.

    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy,

    I am well aware that all my thoughts are wrong, but it is just how I feel, the thoughts I have, the things I wonder. I hope you understand.

    I do understand. I understand what a childhood with emotionally abusive or neglectful parents can do to us. That we end up feeling hollow, because we believe that no one cares, that we don’t matter to anybody, and that our existence is futile. Or even worse, that our existence causes pain to others, like you have learned to believe.

    What I notice is that you seek excuses not only for your girlfriend, but also for your parents too. You would rather blame your school friend who informed her parents about your suicide attempt, than your parents who reacted in an absolutely uncaring way, berating you that you caused them humiliation, instead of stopping to ask themselves what is bothering you.

    But that’s how our child’s mind works: the child always blames themselves, not the parents, because that’s a survival mechanism. The child needs to believe that if only he/she behaved better, the parent would finally show them love, or be proud of them. This happens even with children who are severely abused – the child never blames their parents.

    So when you talk about your parents like that, claiming that “their influence is actually minor“, you are in your child’s mind. And when you speak of yourself as a failure and a nobody, you are in your child’s mind too.

    If we had good, loving and caring parents, the bullying we’ve experienced from other kids wouldn’t have such a great impact on us. If your parents “woke up” after your suicide attempt and sought to understand you – to listen to you –  you wouldn’t have felt even worse about yourself, and even more solidified in your belief that you are a burden and that you cause pain to others. The deacon’s son’s bullying wouldn’t have had such an effect on you, because you would have felt supported and consoled by your parents, rather than attacked.

    Your parents were indeed the key factor in the formation of your personality, and in your ability to take the hits (the bullying, the cruelty) of your peers. Since you didn’t have a soft spot to fall on – a safe haven in your own home – the bullying felt much worse and cut much deeper than if you had caring and supportive parents.

    So please consider that there are two parts in you: one is the adult part, who sees things more clearly and realizes the negative effect of your parents (as well as the negative effect of your girlfriend on you). And there is the child part, who wants to protect both your parents and your girlfriend, blaming yourself rather than them for your emotional suffering.

    Here are some of the examples of your adult mind, talking about your parents:

    They are too narrow minded to accept change in life style. To accept a different method to handling situations. They have never listened to me. Always discouraging me from what I wanted to do. Even this med career was their fault. I never wanted this. I wanted to do music or computers.

    They never thought of encouraging the things that I liked, whether it be music or coding or etc. They never let me have a childhood, always forcing me to “act like an adult” and etc. … The constant pressure of needing high scores and everything in order to get into a college to pursue a degree in something I hated drove me to where I am as well.

    The main difference between my sister and I is that she received too much freedom and I received too less freedom. … And that freedom, I will never get, as even now I am controlled by my parents’ desires, and when I try to go against them, they install me with the fear of “what if I am wrong”.

    The career path to become a doctor gurantees that I will be successful in life especially since I can handle the work load to a degree, but will I be happy doing this? Probably not. Though I like helping people, I don’t think med is the best way for me to help people.

    There were moments like guilt-tripping and other similar circumstances where they would manipulate me into doing what they want without complaining (my father is a pro at psychology, and he is so rigid that everyone, whether it be his own boss, his friends, or our own relatives, knows that he should not be messed with because he always speaks the truth and can put anyone in their place by using pure logic).

    Everything that my father taught me was logically correct, but I was wise enough to know that there are exceptions to the wisdom he passed to me. I did not let his opinion about things completely blind me,

     

    Here is your adult mind, speaking about how hurt you were by your girlfriend:

    Yes, I already considered this and it is obvious that she was suffering from the trauma. But now that trauma is also mine. How can I help to heal her when her own actions created my own trauma? How can I help remove the splinter in her eye when I have a log in my own, which she technically put? But despite that, I put aside my own suffering, and tried to help her as much as I could. For the last 3 months, I shut down my own pain and loved her as much as I could, but the severity of the issue was eating me from the inside.

    The things that I hate about her are the things that torment me. I have not slept properly in the last 3 months. I have been going through a depressed phase of just wanting the pain to end, whether it be through death or amnesia or something
 The relationship with B has ruined me for the worst.

    You also realized that you are actually looking for excuses to take her back. This realization came from your adult mind:

    I AM THE ONE WHO IS STILL IN LOVE WITH HER DESPITE EVERYTHING THAT SHE HAS DONE. I AM HERE RANTING ALL THIS BECAUSE I AM SEARCHING FOR AN EXCUSE, A LOGICAL REASON MY MIND CAN ACCEPT, TO FORGIVE HER AND TAKE HER BACK.

     

    In your writings, you are switching constantly between your adult self, who is aware of the severity of the pain she (and your parents) inflicted upon you. But then you quickly switch to your child self, who is seeking excuses and wants to take her back.

    When you are in your child self, you are neglecting your own pain (I put aside my own suffering), just like your parents neglected your pain.

    So in fact, you are doing to yourself what your parents did to you: disregard your pain, your emotions, your feelings. You tell yourself that you are causing others pain, when in fact they (your parents, your girlfriend) are causing pain to you.

    Can you see this mechanism?

     

    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Paradoxy/Godwin,

    Thank you for sharing more of your story, starting from your childhood onward. Like Anita, my heart breaks to read how negatively you think about yourself, and in reality you are such a bright guy and there is so much light in you. So much self-awareness, insight, and so much empathy and understanding for your parents. And for everybody else you believe you’ve hurt
 I wish you had even a fraction of that empathy and understanding for yourself, dear Paradoxy.

    My parents have influenced the core belief that I am the source of pain for others, but they are not the main influencer. They have behaved in ways that made me feel like a burden to them but that is just a starting point. The real influence came from my own peers.

    What you call the starting point (your parent’s influence) is like the foundations of a house: they are laid down first (in the first 7 or so years of our life) and everything else depends on them. If there is something wrong with the foundations – with our upbringing in our formative years – the whole house will be skewed.

    Through the relationship with our parents, we learn how to relate to ourselves (whether we are good, bad, lovable, worthy). If our parents sent us a message that we are a burden, we will indeed start feeling like a burden. And that belief will be poured into the foundations of our personality. And we will believe: “I am a burden.”

    Everything that happens to us later in our youth and beyond, we will observe through that lens, the lens of being a burden. And so every negative experience we have will confirm that core belief: I am a burden.

    This is what happened to you too, Paradoxy. After your first crush became public, you felt “I felt like I humiliated my crush and that I was a burden to her.” Even though it was you who was made fun of, not her.

    This event led you to try to take your own life, and after it (thankfully) didn’t succeed, your parents, instead of getting worried about you, got mad at you for “humiliating” them:

    My parents felt humiliated by that experience and was very angry with me, making me feel more of a burden.

    This act was your cry for help, but for them, it was humiliation. They thought about themselves, although as responsible parents, they should have thought about you and your well-being. Your school friend actually had more compassion for you than your parents, because she was worried about you and so she told her parents. And her parents told the church, and the church told your parents. That’s how it should be, because whenever a suicidal behavior is noticed in a child, authorities need to react. So everybody reacted responsibly, except your parents, who instead of trying to help you, further traumatized you and punished you.

    As a result, you felt even more as a burden. When in fact, they weren’t fulfilling their parental duties as they should have. They lacked empathy and compassion for you.

    In the next episode, your school friend’s brother was indeed cruel to you:

    Then several months later, her brother pointed out to me what a loser I was and how nobody cared about me. And I realized he was right.

    Children can sometimes be very cruel. So this boy said something offensive, and it fell on fertile ground. It only confirmed your existing belief (which you got from your parents) – that you are a burden.

    I spend my recess times walking around class looking for a friend to hang out with but there was never any who wanted me. This further drived me down the depressive spiral as I felt abandoned by everyone. Not to mention the constant insults I kept getting from my peers. There was no actual bullying, just some hurtful things that I felt were true and I did not have a smart mouth to talk back to the things they said.

    So the same mechanism: your peers were insulting you, and you felt they were right, because you felt bad about yourself. Those insults fell on fertile ground. And they only strengthen the core belief: that you are a burden.

    The next experience, with a class assignment, lead you to the same conclusion:

    I had to get out of the class before anyone saw my tears cause I knew it would just be more humiliation for me and no one cared anyway but unfortunately, one guy and some family friend students saw me crying and asked what happened but I kept everything to myself, crying in silence for being a burden to others.

    Your conclusion was that you cause humiliation to others (like you do to your parents), and that you are a burden to others (like you are to your parents).

    And so on, and so on. Each new experience solidified this core belief. The whole “house” was built on it. Whereas it is not true, it is just your (i.e. your parents’) perception of reality.

    I would like to address the other points, related to your girlfriend, in a separate post, probably tomorrow. I hope at least some of what I’ve written here resonates with you and you see some truth in it


     

    in reply to: How can I do what I wan’t to do with joy? #429014
    Tee
    Participant

    Hey Beni,

    I’ve just checked the link you sent and I liked the little recital-song… so I’ve written down the words. I haven’t understood 100% of the lyrics, but here it is:

    It’s a real skill to be able to look at every problem
    as a miracle we’ve been asking for,
    guiding us exactly where we need to be,
    initiating us,
    asking us to evolve and come deeper and deeper
    into knowing that we are one with God
    We are never alone, we are never at risk

    My pathway meets (?) every day
    I see so many problems
    but my mind’s the only one
    that’s got them

    If I change how I see my way
    All my problems will be gone today
    Cause a miracle is hiding in every dark corner
    And there’s a divine light that shines the dark away
    And if I wish to see that light with my own eyes,
    Well the highest in me shows me how (?)

    All this dark is just in my mind – illusion
    Cause every problem already got a solution
    Everything is already okay
    Life’s a miracle in every way
    There’s a divine light that shines the dark away
    I just got to shine bright to see the light…

     

    in reply to: How can I do what I wan’t to do with joy? #429013
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear Beni,

    good to hear from you!

    I reply late, sometimes I get in to this mode where I do not reach out to people. I replied already two weeks ago and I didn’t like where ther reply came from and it took till now as it’s changing again.

    You mean you wrote a reply 2 weeks ago, but never posted it? Because you felt some resentment or discomfort? You’re welcome to tell me more, if you’d like to…

    Maybe you feel comfortable to reply this question: ‘What do you imagine happens when you meet your career goal and how do you know you met it?’

    Hmm, I’ll have a sense of accomplishment of something that is important to me. You know the Maslow hierarchy of needs? I feel accomplishing this goal would meet my need for self-realization. Maybe I am wrong, but this is how I feel 🙂

    And I’ll know that I’ve met it, because there are some concrete milestones I’d like to achieve…

    I feel your’re right it feels different. Two weeks a go I thought it’s the same. It feels rather like speaking to a person and praying doesn’t feel like talking to anyone or thing

    Oh interesting… so praying for you feels like not talking to anyone, whereas speaking to your inner child feels like talking to someone?

    I forgot to pray lately, I think when I come out of the energy that there needs to be change, that there is something wrong or missing rather than I whish this and this happens and not beeing attached to the outcome it feels natural. There’s much patience endurance involved and sometimes I doubt it.

    You mean that when you pray for something, you feel you’re attached to the outcome? And it gives you a feeling that something is wrong or missing in how things are right now? And when you let go of that attachment, when you just patiently wait and trust that it will happen, then it does happen eventually?

    Makes sense how can we reach a goal when wo do not move in it’s direction taking the steps, we need to be very clear what our goals are and why we need it.

    Yeah, for me it’s important to know why I am doing something, i.e. it’s important to me that it is aligned with my true self and my true desires (and not someone else’s wishes, or something that I feel forced to do.)

    This kinda triggers me cause I struggle to take action mucho. I do not know how so I patiently wait and things work out too and I take action too it is just is so slow.

    Let me see if I understood you correctly: so your experience is that when you patiently wait, things work out by themselves? And so you’re not motivated to take action?

    Can you give me an example (if you feel comfortable) of a situation where things just worked out by themselves, without you needing to take any action?

     

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