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PeterParticipant
For me, an introvert who was taught that other peopleâs needs came before mine the problem of self-esteem was a problem of how I imagined other people saw me. Through nature and nurture would judge myself on what I thought others thought of me and of course compare my life with how I imagine othersâ lives are. Even if others told me I had value I imagined they were just being nice and didn’t mean it.
- I was allowing others, imagined others, to define my self-esteem.
You could say that my sense of self and self-esteem wasnât based on who I was, the things I did, or the roles I took on but on imaginationâŚ. And my imagination sucked. Worse i discovered that apparently people, especially strangers, didnât actually spend much time thinking about me or caring about my self-esteem that I was giving them power over.
One of the first steps in taking ownership of my self-esteem was coming to terms with what it meant to be an introvert in what I felt/feel is a extroverted world. To much of my self-esteem was tied to being ashamed of being a introvert and not being âoutgoingâ, exciting, a story teller, life of the partyâŚ
The following books were helpful as I learned the value of being an introvert and how it opened me to experience the world that could be helpful in my career and relationships.
QUIET: the Power of Introverts in a World that Can’t Stop Talking by Susan Cain
I had often been told that I âthink too muchâ and should just accept the things I was told. When I talked about what I was thinking about, a problem I was working through, others heard it as being negative or pessimistic⌠yet I felt optimistic
Thinking about things is part of my nature as was working through problems by identifying issues and strategies for dealing with them. However these well intention influences were telling me not to me.
In The Positive Power of Negative Thinking by Julie Norem I realized that my thinking too much was not being negative but a strategy. I discovered I was an optimist that believed that when I looked at a problem and worked out the ways things might go wrong I could and would correct those issue and everything would work out. You donât want a strategic extrovert building your bridges you want a defensive introvert.
I guess Iâm saying that my sense of self-esteem improved when took ownership of of my nature and nurture. Instead of imagining who I was I worked at finding and examining my nature and nurture. How I do things had value, who I am has value.
I wonât lie I still dream of being the extrovert that everyone loves (I imagine loves) but at my core thatâs not me. However that not being me does not have to have any bearing on my sense of worth..
Anyway I hope you well on your quest for self-esteem and it is a quest as only you can find it and in finding it take ownership of it.
Trust your quest and that it has value because it is your quest! Allow yourself to be the person you are, the good the bad and the ugly. Be you!
In the thirteenth-century legend Quest for the Grail, when the vision of the veiled Grail appears to the knights in Arthurâs banquet hall to summon them each to their quest of unveiling it, the knights decide to ride forth singly, for to go in a group would have been shameful. This is the point which Campbell – the greatest mythologist of this century – holds up as testimony to a new moral initiative that is of the essence of European spirituality.
When all the knights had put on their arms, attended Mass and expressed their gratitude to their king, they âentered into the forest, at one point and another, there where they saw it to be thickest, all in those places where they found no way or path …. So they start their journey as individuals, each trusting to their own authority and to the mysterious power of their calling. Jules Cashford
Follow your Path
âIf you do follow your bliss you put yourself on a kind of track that has been there all the while, waiting for you, and the life that you ought to be living is the one you are living. Follow your bliss and don’t be afraid, and doors will open where you didn’t know they were going to be.â â Joseph Campbell
âIf you can see your path laid out in front of you step by step, you know it’s not your path. Your own path you make with every step you take. That’s why it’s your path.â â Joseph Campbell
âAs you proceed through life, following your own path, birds will shit on you. Don’t bother to brush it off. Getting a comedic view of your situation gives you spiritual distance. Having a sense of humor saves you.â â Joseph Campbell
- This reply was modified 8 years, 1 month ago by Peter.
October 30, 2016 at 3:25 pm in reply to: The PUA/Self Imrovement Community is making me depressed #119210PeterParticipantI found the following book helpful.
Wish I had read it when I was 22How to Be an Adult in Relationships: The Five Keys to Mindful Loving â by David Richo
“Most people think of love as a feeling,” says David Richo, “but love is not so much a feeling as a way of being present.” In this book, Richo offers a fresh perspective on love and relationshipsâone that focuses not on finding an ideal mate, but on becoming a more loving and realistic person. Drawing on the Buddhist concept of mindfulness, How to Be an Adult in Relationships explores five hallmarks of mindful loving and how they play a key role in our relationships throughout life:
1. Attention to the present moment; observing, listening, and noticing all the feelings at play in our relationships.
2. Acceptance of ourselves and others just as we are.
3. Appreciation of all our gifts, our limits, our longings, and our poignant human predicament.
4. Affection shown through holding and touching in respectful ways.
5. Allowing life and love to be just as they are, with all their ecstasy and ache, without trying to take control.When deeply understood and applied, these five simple conceptsâwhat Richo calls the five A’sâform the basis of mature love. They help us to move away from judgment, fear, and blame to a position of openness, compassion, and realism about life and relationships. By giving and receiving these five A’s, relationships become deeper and more meaningful, and they become a ground for personal transformation.
PeterParticipantI could just play all relaxed like they appear to, or to just play dumb and not do things.
That maybe what is known as a Foolâs Choice – These are false dilemmas that suggest we face only two options (both of them bad), when in fact we face several choices.
You can live your truths as you know them, doing your job the best you can because that is who you are without judging, labeling, comparing or imagining how relaxed others appear to be in how they do there work. All this imagining seems to be the source of much of your frustrating.
This Afternoon I went for a walk to a local coffee shop. A man was nice enough to hold the door open for me however I was preoccupied and didnât acknowledge him with a thank you. The man in an tone a voice that to me indicated annoyance let me know with a load âYour Welcomeâ
The man of course could not know I was thinking about my mother who had recently past and instead perhaps imagined I was being rude and would teach me manners by a reminder with the âYour Welcomeâ. Perhaps in that moment he needed validation… Of course in that moment I was also imagining I new what the man intention was.
I wonât lie a part of me was embarrassed for my failure at not being present and angry at the man for pointing it out. So we had a moment that was likely negative for both instead of a moment that was gracious for not real reasons
Maybe we were both right – I was being rude and he was only holding open the door to be noticed for his good manners.
But
What if the man could be happy holding open doors for others, not to be thanked, but because that was who he was?
What if I could be grateful for someone holding open a door for me even in those times Iâm not fully present. why should we imagine we “knew” what the other intent was and so change a moment of grace into something elsePeterParticipantYou already know how this will play out if you push it.
This issue, if you want it to become a issue, is between your mother and brother. If you get involved the issue is between you and your mother and likely one that has been recreate in various ways for a while now.
There comes a time I think when we get to decided to accept family as they are and create our boundaries to protect our peace of mind while still being respectful to the relationship.
If who they are does not meet who you want and or need them to be then keep the visits short and talk of the weather… or continue creating drama trying to get them to be who you want them to be as they try to get you to be who they need and want you to be.
It is unlikely that you and your motherâs relationship is going to change. You can keep finding stories that keep your score higher and feeling good about your judgments or just stop and instead create some inner peace for yourself. Just stop
Is the drama worth it.
PeterParticipantYou are correct this God you created in your mind is not going to help you.
To be clear this god of promises is not the idea of ‘G_d’ I was pointing to.I’m sorry life has not been kinder to you
- This reply was modified 8 years, 1 month ago by Peter.
PeterParticipantI think that when religion views God as a alien being that exists out their as a watcher and judge they have missed the target â (the word sin is a old archery term to miss the target to sin then in this regard is anything that keeps us from our becoming)
Others also mistake the organization and religious teaching as being God. They mistake the map for the territory. You could argue that such organization worship a book as a idol that prevents them from seeing the forest.
Tannhauser your experience of religion has hurt you greatly.
The problem with being so angry at a God you donât experience as existing is that youâre shaking your fist at empty air.
Believe me I relate to your experience. There is a part of me that so badly wanted to belong to the community I was raised in but unable to experience this God they claimed was so loving, just and worthy of praise. All I felt and saw was injustice and pain all of which left me feeling I must have failed and didnât belong.
Yet no matter how hard I tried I have never been able to deny G_dâs existence and like you in a way that had me shaking my fist.
One day I got tired of shaking my fist and fighting this something that I apparently didnât believe in. If I was shaking my fist I was shaking it at something so I set out to workout what this something was. I began a long journey of separating my experience of G_d from my experience of family, community, church, religion…
I began to look past the words, allowing the words to be transparent to transcendence and when I did began to feel that there was a something that âbinds us allâ. A definition of religion is that which binds us, not the rules not the words but something greater than the sum of all parts, that transcends the rules and words that can only point.
We tend to use the word God when we talk about this experience but the word God is not God.
PeterParticipantI have been reading many of the posts on this site of people asking for advice and something… I don’t know…
Do the stories we tell about an experience eventual become the experience? Do we write our story or does the story end up writing us? Perhaps there is a tipping point that we donât notice when we surrender and allow the story to define ourselves and our presentâŚ
Anyway just a thought I had while reading your post.
I was also reminded of a book I read long ago by David Richo â When the Past is Present
Maybe that is a place for you to start in reclaiming your story and living the life you want to tell.âThough most of us want to move on from our past, we tend to go through our lives simply casting new people into the roles of key people, such as our parents or any significant person with whom there is still unfinished business.â
â David Richo, When the Past Is Present: Healing the Emotional Wounds that Sabotage our Relationships- This reply was modified 8 years, 1 month ago by Peter.
PeterParticipantOne thing I have discovered is that most people end up happily surprised by the direction their education has taken them, more often then not in directions that they never considered while taking their courses.
Donât let labels and expectations about what a carrier in a specific this or that must look like. Keep your yes open and see where you learned takes you.
PeterParticipantSome interesting reading I came across
I think what we are looking for is a way of experiencing the world that will open to us the transcendent that informs it, and at the same time forms ourselves within it. That is what people want. That is what the soul asks for. – Joseph Campbell
From “An Open Life – Joseph Campbell in Conversation With Michael Toms”
TOMS: Human beings throughout history have been searching for their source. How do you see todayâs search?
CAMPBELL: I think our search is somewhat encumbered by our concept of God.
God as a final term is a personality in our tradition, so that breaking past that “personality” into the transpersonal, whether within oneâs self or in conceiving of the form beyond forms â although one canât even say form â is blocked by our orthodox training.
This is so drummed into us that the word “God” refers to a personality.
Now, there have been very important mystics who have broken past that. For instance, there is Meister Eckhart, whose line I like to quote: “The ultimate leave-taking is the leaving of God for God.”
This is what in Sanskrit is so easily expressed in Saguna and Nirguna Brahman â Brahman with qualities and Brahman without qualities. And when people would go to Ramakrishna, he would ask them how they would like to talk about God, with qualities or without? You see, thatâs inherent in their tradition, but itâs blocked in ours (Christianity)
TOMS: Many people seem to be coming to the search for God.
CAMPBELL: Well, thatâs the great thing about it. As soon as you smash the local provincial god-form, God comes back. And thatâs what Nietzsche meant when he wrote that God is dead. Nietzsche was himself not an atheist in the crude sense; he was a man of enormous religious spirit and power.
What he meant was that the God whoâs fixed and defined in terms appropriate for 2,000 years ago is no longer so today. And of course the words of Meister Eckhart give an earlier variation of Nietzscheâs remark. So the concept of God beyond God is in our tradition.
TOMS: You have to go beyond traditional concepts, donât you?
CAMPBELL: Indeed you do. Not only for your own life, but because life is different from the way it was and the rules of the past are restrictive of the life process. The moment the life process stops, it starts drying up; and the whole sense of myth is finding the courage to follow the process. In order to have something new, something old has to be broken; and if youâre too heavily fixed on the old, youâre going to get stuck. Thatâs what hell is: the place of people who could not yield their ego system to allow the grace of a transpersonal power to move them.
TOMS: So itâs like coming in touch with the deeper part of life and being willing to let go.
CAMPBELL: And if you understand the spiritual aspect of your religious tradition, it will encourage you to do that. But if you interpret it in terms of hard fact, itâs going to hinder you.
Heinrich Zimmer once said, “The best things canât be told; the second best are misunderstood; the third best have to do with history.” Now, the vocabulary through which the best things are told as second best is the vocabulary of history, but it doesnât refer to history; it refers through this to the transcendent. Deities have to become, as one great German scholar said, “transparent to the transcendent.” The transcendent must show and shine through those deities. But it must shine through us, too, and through the spiritual things we are talking about. And as long as you keep pinning it down to concrete fact, and declare something isnât true because it didnât happen, youâre wrong. We donât say that about fairy tales, and so we get the truth of them. We should read our religions that way.
CAMPBELL: I think contemporary religion is in a very bad spot. And I think it is because it has taken the symbols as the referents. Religion is the constellation of metaphors, and the metaphor points to connotations that are of the spirit, not of history, as I said before. And in our religions, weâre accenting the historical image that carries the message, but we stay with the image.
TOMS: The literal interpretation, in other words…
CAMPBELL: Yes, and you lose these messages. The thing about Jesus is not that he died and was resurrected, but that his death and resurrection must tell us something about our own spirit.
TOMS: Why do you think we tend to a literal interpretation of Christ in myth?
CAMPBELL: I think itâs the result of a strong institutional emphasis in our religions in the West, and a fear of the mystical experience. In fact, the experience of the divine within you is regarded as blasphemy. I remember having given a lecture once on this problem of becoming transparent to transcendence, so that your life becomes a transparency through which light shines.
I spoke of it as “the god in you, coming out through your life.” A couple of months later, I met a young woman at another talk who had happened to be present at the first one; and she told me that when I had said “The Christ in you asks you to live,” a priest sitting next to her had said, “Thatâs blasphemy!” So, in institutional religion, all the spirit is out there somewhere, not in you.
But whatâs the meaning of the saying, “The kingdom of heaven is within you,” if you canât say, “Itâs within me”? Then whoâs in heaven?
TOMS: And, “I and the Father are one.”
CAMPBELL: All of that. Jesus was crucified because he said, “I and the Father are one.” Well, the ultimate mystical experience is of oneâs identity with the divine power. Thatâs the sense of the Chandogya Upanishad saying which says “You are It.” That divinity which you seek outside, and which you first become aware of because you recognize it outside, is actually your inmost being. Now, itâs not a nice thing to say, but itâs not good for institutions if people find that itâs all within themselves. So there may be some point there about our particular situation in the West where religious institutions have been able to dominate a society.
TOMS: In some sense, we create our own gods.
CAMPBELL: Yes, thatâs exactly what we do. No matter what name we give it, the God we have is the one weâre capable of having. Thatâs something people donât realize. Simply because theyâre all saying the same name for God, that doesnât mean they have the same relationship to That, or the same concept of what It is. And the concept of God is only a foreground of the experience.
TOMS: Isnât it important to respect our own uniqueness?
CAMPBELL: I think thatâs the most important thing of all. Thatâs why, as l said, you really canât follow a guru. You canât ask somebody to give The Reason, but you can find one for yourself; you decide what the meaning of your life is to be. People talk about the meaning of life; there is no meaning of life â there are lots of meanings of different lives, and you must decide what you want your own to be.
PeterParticipantThereâs a wonderful Indian story of a young man who was told by his guru, “You are Brahman. You are God.” What a thing to experience! “I am God.” So, deeply indrawn, this young man goes out for a walk. He walks through the village, goes out into the country. And coming down the road is a great elephant, with the howdah on top, and the driver on his head. And the young man, thinking “I am God. I am God,” does not get out of the way of the elephant. The mahout shouts, “Get out of the way, you lunatic!” The young man hears him and looks and sees the elephant, and he says to himself, “I am God and the elephant is God. Should God get out of the way of God?” And of course the moment of truth arrives when the elephant suddenly wraps his trunk around him and tosses him off the road.
The young man goes back to his guru in a disheveled condition â not physically hurt, but psychologically in shock. The guru sees him and asks, “Well, what happened to you?”
The young man tells him his story and then says, “You told me that I was God.”
“And so you are.”
“The elephant is God.”
“And so it is.”
“Well, then, should God get out of the way of God?”
“But why didnât you listen to the voice of God shouting from the head of the elephant?”
PeterParticipantâOne could start just by taking a few minutes out of every day to sit quietly and do nothing, letting what moves one rise to the surface. One could take a few days out of every season to go on retreat or enjoy a long walk in the wilderness, recalling what lies deeper than the moment or the self. One could even try to find a life in which stage sets and performances disappear and one is reminded, at a level deeper than all words, how making a living and making a life sometimes point in opposite directions.â
âGoing nowhere isnât about turning your back on the world; itâs about stepping away now and then so that you can see the world more clearly and love it more deeply. â
â Pico Iyer, The Art of Stillness: Adventures in Going NowherePerhaps a place to start is to take a few minutes every day for yourself to be still and allow the mind to rest.
Creating such a time for yourself will require you to practice creating boundaries as well as space to heal those âbroken legsâ.At the still point of the turning world. Neither flesh nor fleshless;
Neither from nor towards; at the still point, there the dance is,
But neither arrest nor movement.
And do not call it fixity,
Where past and future are gathered. Neither movement from nor towards,
Neither ascent nor decline. Except for the point, the still point,
There would be no dance, and there is only the dance.
T.S EliotPeterParticipantI think you have set yourself an admirable goal!
The words we use matter and the word complain can be troublesome as there tends to be various semantic reaction to it. For many to complain is negative as in to accuse, attack, whine, find fault, yammer, gripe⌠More likely than not when we complain we complain in this way with the result that people wonât hear the issue at the source of the problem as the dialog is likely to pivot to the personal.
A pivot to the personal to avoid dealing with the issue at hand is for many a conscious or unconscious strategy of avoidance – either way unhelpful if youâre hoping to improve the situation.
When addressing an issue we can âcomplainâ or we can communicate.
To achieve your goal to complain less you will need to learn better ways to communicate when those you work with let you down.
Based on the book Crucial Conversations One of the first skills we must master in order to create a safe place for dialog is to master our stories.
When it matters most and our emotions kick in, we often do our worst â even if we try to convince ourselves that we’re doing the right thing.
Learn to create emotions that influence you to want to return to healthy dialogue.
Others don’t make you mad, you make you mad. You see and hear something, and then you tell yourself a story. That story triggers your feelings. Then you either act on those feelings or have them act on you.
Manage your emotions by retracing your path. Return to the source of your feelings. Separate facts from feelings. You can see and hear facts. Stories, on the other hand, are judgments and conclusions that trigger your movement to silence or violence.
And watch for three clever stories:
– The Victim Story that makes you out to be the innocent sufferer. Ask yourself, “Am I pretending not to notice my role in the problem?”
– The Villain Story that emphasizes others’ negative qualities. Ask yourself, “Why would a reasonable, rational, and decent person do this?”
– The Helpless Story that convinces you that you have no options for taking healthy action. Ask yourself, “What should I do right now to move toward what I really want?”Good luck on your hero’s journey to better dialog
PeterParticipantI have often found myself stuck in my stuckness⌠similar to being depressed about being depressed, stuck in a loop that kept feeing itself.
Truth be told there is a part of me that is comfortable with the familiarity of my stuckness as it can feel like a safe place to be. When I donât move there is little risk anything will change, and if something is going to change I want to control it and so be certain⌠but change is uncertain and feels unsafe… another self-feeding loop of stuckness and fear
âNot being stuck means the learning to be comfortable with uncertainty and not knowing. So whatever first steps you take into uncertainty have to be bearable. You canât get overwhelmed and yet you do have to embrace movement. Movement is the opposite of being stuck. So find some small steps that are manageable that will add movement.â
If you want out of the cycle you have to move, face the fear and do it anyway. As AL said – experiment, experience, explore and discover and learnâŚ
PeterParticipantIts sounds like youâre depressed and or experiencing an existential issue… (Which comes first the chicken or the egg) It also sounds like you have lost touch with your sense of self (boundaries of who you are)
Iâve been there and wish I had a magic answer.
One thing people are going to tell you is that you just have to get up and do something. Donât overthink it just do it. They are correct, change will require you to get up and do something, however thatâs kind of like asking a man with broken legs to just get up and run.
You will need some space to heal
If you can afford it I might recommend professional help. A third party to talk to without worry about judgments so that you have a space where you can hear yourself and perhaps understand what is happening.
There are also a lot of books about creating healthy boundaries that might help you get started.
Boundaries define us. They define what is me and what is not me. A boundary shows me where i end and someone else begins, leading me to a sense of ownership. Knowing what I am to own and take responsibility for gives me freedom. Taking responsibility for my life opens up many different options. Boundaries help us keep the good in and the bad out. Setting boundaries inevitably involves taking responsibility for your choices. You are the one who makes them. You are the one who must live with their consequences. And you are the one who may be keeping yourself from making the choices you could be happy with. We must own our own thoughts and clarify distorted thinking.
Boundaries: When to Say Yes, How to Say No to Take Control of Your Life by Henry Cloud
- This reply was modified 8 years, 1 month ago by Peter.
PeterParticipantI found the following book helpful when I asked myself the same question after a simmilar experiance.
How to Be an Adult in Love – Letting love in Safely and Showing it Recklessly by David Richo“We were made to love and be loved. Loving ourselves and others is in our genetic code. Itâs nothing other than the purpose of our livesâbut knowing that doesnât make it easy to do. We find it a challenge to love ourselves. We might have a hard time letting love in from others: recognizing it, accepting it. Weâre often afraid of getting hurt. It is also sometimes scary for us to share love with those around usâand love that isnât shared leaves us feeling flat and unfulfilled.
âI now understand that all the people I have ever known have come into my life to teach me about love. I am coming to trust that every moment of affection I received has been carefully recorded in me, ready for playback. The love I received from others shows me how to love those who need it from me. This is how the people who loved me have helped write this book.
Specific memories also come through about how much people have had to put up with from me. What did they see in me that made them stick with me when I was so damned afraid to return their love? Maybe they saw something lovable in me that I need to see in myself. Their uninterrupted love also helps me trust that I must have shown more love than I give myself credit for.â
â David Richo, How to Be an Adult in Love: Letting Love in Safely and Showing It RecklesslyâThe grace in dark events does not emerge magically. It can happen only when we join in the forward movements of grace and march into them fully. Then we more easily resurrect ourselves from our catastrophes. Thus, grace is a gift potential in what happens. When it offers itself, it is up to us to take advantage of that offering. We begin to do this when we give up being victims of circumstance, when we honestly ask: âWhat can I make of what happened? How can I work with this event so that it opens me to something new? How can this serve me and others?â Part of getting to this point is cultivating the trusting attitude âIf it happened, it must hold an opportunity.â As Benjamin Franklin said: âThe things that hurt instruct.â â David Richo
âWhen I see I am nothing, that is wisdom. When I see I am everything, that is love. My life is a movement between these two. âNISARGADATTA MAHARAJâ
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