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PeterParticipant
Well said PeaceHawk, thanks for the reminder
PeterParticipantThanks for sharing your hurt
PeterParticipantFor someone prone to depression the questions of purposes and meaning can become self defeating.
Such questions have been asked since the birth of consciousnessā¦ why am āIā here, naked, shame… how can I endure, there must be meaning.
The answer to such questions I think require skill. I mean by this knowing when to ask the question and seek its answers.
For myself I think Joseph Campbell answered the question that I relate to the most. āLife has no meaning. Each of us has meaning and we bring it to life. It is a waste to be asking the question when you are the answer.ā
It is a waste to be asking the question when you are the answerā¦ Life does not give you meaning, you give meaning to Life.
In such light, even my depression is purposeful and meaningful and brings meaning to Life. I do not fully understand it, yet Iā¦ ātasteā that it is true, and enough, and so I no longer ask the questions.
As for being Happy. The idea of happiness and the experience of being happy can become so confusing and wrapped up in each other. Especially when you read something like the following:
āIf you decide that you’re going to be happy from now on for the rest of your life, you will not only be happy, you will become enlightened. Unconditional happiness is the highest technique there is. This is truly a spiritual path, and it as direct and sure a path to Awakening as could possibly exist.ā
ā Michael A. Singer
Right, sounds so easy, if I just decide to be happy I will be happy? How does one decide such a thinkā¦ and what is this Happy that this Michael speaks of? The feeling, an experience, and ideaā¦. I think for Michael Happiness was getting to a place where he could give an unconditional Yes to all of lifeās experience, those we experience as good and those we experience as bad. Ā Happiness is getting to experience Life as it is and so give life meaning.
I would change the quote to read:
āIf you can give an unconditional Yes to lifeās experiences from now on for the rest of your life, you will not only be happy, you will become enlightened. Unconditional Yes is the highest technique there is. This is truly a spiritual path, and it as direct and sure a path to Awakening as could possibly exist.ā
Unconditional Yes/Unconditional Happinessā¦ I donāt know Iām still working it out, yet I know there is a truth to that statement. I can taste it š
You might find the following Ted talk interesting: He does not say it but I think he found a way to give a unconditional Yes to his experience of depression and doing so found if not happiness, meaning, and in finding meaning… Happinessā¦ Not a feeling, not a moment in time, but a happiness in being?
“The opposite of depression is not happiness, but vitality, and it was vitality that seemed to seep away from me in that moment.”
- This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by Peter.
PeterParticipantāTo attain true inner freedom, you must be able to objectively watch your problems instead of being lost in them… Once you’ve made the commitment to free yourself of the scared person inside, you will notice that there is a clear decision point at which your growth takes place.āĀ āĀ Michael A. Singer,Ā The Untethered Soul: The Journey Beyond Yourself
Best wishes Colby, very happy for you
PeterParticipantI wonder if Balance is not the freedom from fear or desire but the ability to hold the tension of freedom and desire without attachment, And so we dance.
Dance the art of falling and catching ourselves gracefully. Dancing from the still point
“At the still point of the turning world. Neither flesh nor fleshless;
Neither from nor towards; at the still point, there the dance is,
But neither arrest nor movement. And do not call it fixity,
Where past and future are gathered. Neither movement from nor towards,
Neither ascent nor decline. Except for the point, the still point,
There would be no dance, and there is only the dance.” TS EliotPeterParticipantBasically what I was saying was that when it comes to measuring experiences most people suck. A solution is to stop measuring. That won’t change what happened but it can change the attachment we have to the memory of what happened (it is the memory that we are left to deal with and what we are usually measuring which perpetuates the feelings or you might say the chemical stimulus that creates those feeling.)
What I think your saying is that the feelings we have about our experiences are the result of chemical interactions. Without the ability to produce the chemicals needed to experience joy or happiness one can only experience sadness…Ā And in your view the only thing that can give value to ones life are the “feel-good neurotransmitters/chemicals in the brain”
Are you saying that people who suffer have no value or just can not experience value? And that only positive experience of value creates consciousness?
That is quite a leap and perhaps a misunderstanding of the words value, meaning, and quality and maybe unskillful measuring? Have you read Zen And the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance. the book as a lot to say about value, quality and how we measure it.
Perhaps we are at the mercy of the chemicals of the brain – as above so below/fate.Ā Perhaps the stories we tell ourselves about our experiences can influence the chemicals of the brain – as below so above/choice. What came first the negative thoughts about a experience or the chemical reactions? Did the experience influenza the chemicals which influence the thoughts or do thoughts influence the chemicals…(and the experience) both? is their a tipping point?
As to the question of what gives a life experience value… the stories we like the most are the ones where a negative experience leads to a transformation of becoming.
I would even argue that consciousness is a result of the tension we experience when confronted with the problem of opposites.
(as most Ā cultures beginning stories indicate – for example the tension of having knowledge of good and evil but not the discernment of knowing what is good or evil. the tension creating consciousness and with that a exit from the “bliss” of remaining unconscious. Or if you don’t like religious references, a baby takes a crap and it feels good, then its care taker makes a face of disgust when cleaning it up. What was experienced as good (objective as in the experience happened and felt like in the moment ) is, as influenced from above, also experienced as something else (subjective what we think and feel about the experience now memory as something else)… maybe even bad. Was it good or was it bad?)
I’m sorry your life so far has been crap. Nothing I could say can change that. Still you have come to a Buddhist forum and perhaps a part of you is looking for some other answers… or questions?
- This reply was modified 7 years, 4 months ago by Peter.
PeterParticipantYou might enjoy the User Illusion by Tor NĆørretranders
The ego starts off thinking that it is conscious of everything and conscious of everything in charge. Yet consciousness is incredibly limited, 8 to 16 bits per second, and our experience of it tends to be linear – cause and effect.
In comparison, the unconscious is capable of taking in millions of bits of information a second. Just think about how my information is required for your body to function. If you had to be conscious of it all (and control it) you would die.
All this implies that we know more then we know, see more then we see, hear more then we hear, taste more then we taste, smell more then we smell. Ā We just arenāt conscious of it, so more often then not the ego, attachment to fear and desire, fills in the gaps and creates illusion. (the mind literally fills in the gap of what it expects to see and hear.)
Judgments do play a role in our lives and are not bad or good. This experience hurt me, this experience I liked, this one I didnāt.Ā Judgments as information and when skilled without attachment.Ā But then we tend to make judgments about people in involved in such experience. This person is bad, this one ugly, I’m bad, I’m ugly.Ā Judgments influenced by physiological factors most of which are unconscious. The experience of the judgment, as information, opening the door to becoming more conscious. Where as the experience of judgment with attachment to desire, fear and threat to self, becomes reactionary and to often remains unconscious.
Here is a riddle for you: As above so below… as below so above
PeterParticipantI can relate to your story
In dream analyses and symbolic language; the people, animals and objects we meet in our dreams represent attributes, feelings, thinking, dreamsā¦ of the dreamer. The dreams a likely not about reconnecting to you X but to yourself in some way.
It seems the unconscious preferred way to communicate to the conscious is through the symbolic language of images.
In your dream your X would likely represent qualities that you might have associated with him as having as well as the hopes and dreams you may have had about yourself when you were together but that now you may be disconnected from.
When we are with someone we care about and who cares about us we feel empowered, we are empowered. Ā We tend to imagine that we can become the best version of ourselves.
After a breakup we often lose that imagined future or ourselves or become disconnected from it. At the same time our understanding of Love and relationship is challenged. Ā Your dreams could be an indication of unfinished work in dealing with that loss.
In dream interpretation asking the right questions can help.
What qualities would you associate with you X?
Which qualities do you also have and which ones do you think you donāt have?
Of the qualities that you donāt think you have which ones would you like to develop?
Do the same type of questioning with your thinking and feelings with regards to the idea of Love and Relationship that you may have had during your relationship with your X.
How did you see your future self while in that relationship?
Has an attribute, dream, hope that you may have had been lost? Were you too innocent? Did you become disillusion in anyway? Did you lose a creative spark?
In such an interpretation the dream would not be about reconnecting to your X, or be about your X at all.
Instead it is likely that its about reconnecting or making conscious something you have forgotten about your self, perhaps a better way to love yourself, forgive yourselfā¦.
My hunch is that once you do the dream work, the dreams will stop and you will have learned something about yourself that will make your current relationships even stronger.
July 27, 2017 at 2:26 pm in reply to: Life of meaning and purpose after 20 years of searching #160564PeterParticipantYou reminded me of something I read recently about Synchronicity
āSynchronicity, a spiritual tool of the psyche Ā – Just the right persons come along and just the right impact is made so that wholeness can happen. As we saw earlier, something, we know not what, call it psyche or grace, is always at work, we know not how – call it synchronicity or grace ā so that the wholeness always and already is in us can come out. Synchronicity is honored when chance meets choice and we act in accord with what has begun from beyond our ego.” – āShadow Dance: Liberating the Power & Creativity of Your Dark Sideā By David Richo
Synchronicity when chance meets choiceā¦ when Fate meets Free will… Destiny and Choice dancing together on the same pathā¦ working together in our becoming.
July 27, 2017 at 10:39 am in reply to: Life of meaning and purpose after 20 years of searching #160528PeterParticipantMy favorite quotes on Meaning
āLife has no meaning. Each of us has meaning and we bring it to life. It is a waste to be asking the question when you are the answer.ā ā Joseph Campbell
Great to read a post of someone bring meaning to Life!
āIf you follow your bliss you put yourself on a kind of track that has been there all the while, waiting for you, and the life that you ought to be living is the one you are living. Follow your bliss and don’t be afraid, and doors will open where you didn’t know they were going to be.ā ā Joseph Campbell
PeterParticipantMarriage/Relationship can be the container in which we are pushed to grow however it can also be the container in which be become stuck and forget who we are.Ā In such a case LOVE may require the end of that relationship where the pain of such a break might push the individuals back onto the path of becoming.
The following is just my ramblings of how I came to such a conclusion
In the book The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy “The answer to the ultimate question of life, the universe and everything is 42. 42 was arrived at by the question what do you get if you multiple six by nine. The joke being that because 6 X 9 = 54 not 42 that āsomething was fundamentally wrong with the universeā But what if thatās not the punch line after all? What if the better punch line was the something was fundamentally wrong with our ability to do math. That there is nothing wrong with the universe just our math skills.
What if our understanding and experience of this thing we call Love is wrong or to limited. What if LOVE is greater then our limited expectations of Love, What if our math is wrong.
We hear statements about Love all time, like, nothing is greater then Love, Love will triumph, all you need is Loveā¦ but we donāt really believe it, the numbers donāt add up. Ā But what if it true and were all just really bad at math?
Relationships fail for what it seems many reasons. Relationships fail even when two people authentically love each otherā¦ When you experience such things one canāt help but wonder āWhatās Love got to do with itā. If Love is all there is, all you need, whatās Love got to do with it?
Though my experiences and observations, it seemed to me that Love had everything and nothing to do with a marriage relationship lasting. Without love it would most certainly dieā¦ but not necessary end. With Love it might thriveā¦ but not necessary remain together.
Why after a break up does it often happen that emerging from the pain of a break up those evolved emerged stronger, more mature, consciousā¦ more there authentic self
As I looked deeper into my experiences, observations and study Love appeared to be experienced/exist/vibrate on different levels. And at its highest form all things were LOVE. All things even pain and suffering.
That at LOVE’s highest form there is a push toward individual awaking consciousness. Ā Some have called this push Grace. God/Love/Life wants (may need us) us to grow and become conscious.
PeterParticipantYes a break up not only can change you, it should!
Fearing or not liking change is going to cause problems in future relationships
One of the purposes of relationship, especially with regards marriage is to act as the container/crucible to which we change so that we might become.
One of the attributes of Love (at the higher plane) is a push or even demand that we grow and become. Consciously or unconsciously we will be pushed. In this light, sometimes Love may require that a relationship end. That the pain of loss pushes a person into consciousness and becoming.
Within the crucible of marriage one can expect to confront and hopefully reconcile and work through the mother father complexes (learn to nurture and protect oneself from with in), Ones shadow and shadow projections, and the problem of opposites.
By confronting these challenges, we become conscious and conscious become our authentic selves. This is the hero journey
If within the container/crucible we do not do this work. Love will break the container so that the pain of the breaking might push us back onto the path (different or new crucible)
PeterParticipantPeterParticipantHappy Birthday
“The only reason for time is so that everything doesn’t happen at once.” – Albert Einstein
In measuring a point in time its so difficult not to want everything to happen/change all at once… but that would defeat reason for time.
We artificially create meaningful points of time in which to measure ourselves against. Are we where we wanted to be? Do I have, will I have, what I dreamed of having, that I dreamed of becoming? Can I envision a future that is different from the memories of how I see myself now? ā¦
In general, when it comes to measuring our experience most people suck, making these moments of time and space in which we feel called to reflect to become depressive instead of constructive.
Reflection during these transitional points in our life journey are very important, but only if done skillfully. Only if we are asking helpful questions and not measuring/comparing our answers and experiences against how we think others are doing.
Self Reflection is a time to be honest without judgment.
Found the following after a quick google which might help you stay connected to your authentic self and grow through your reflections.
1. We need emotional space to process transitions. Give yourself time and space to process transitions. It may not seem āproductiveā so youāll need to remind yourself that you truly need space, and that this will promote growth in the long run. If youāre leading a team in transition, give the team space to process. Create some space for dialogue and interaction about the transition. Look at the long term outcomes; not just the short term. The goal is not to get rid of pesky emotions and maximize productivity today
2.Itās normal and good to grieve the loss of what was. Let yourself grieve. Jesus said, āblessed are those who mourn, for they shall be comforted.ā There is a deep psychological truth here; mourning brings about healing and comfort, even though itās painful at the time.
3. Most transitions have a mix of positive and negative aspects. Itās normal to feel a mix of such emotions. Give yourself space for the full range of emotions and the inevitable ups and downs that come with the territory.
4. People process transitions differently depending on their personality and life history. Donāt expect yourself to process things the same way others do.
5. Vulnerability is strength. It doesnāt feel like it when we experience vulnerability, but it truly is strength. Vulnerability comes from a measure of security to be where you are, rather than to deny the emotional reality of what things mean to you
6. Remember the promise of something new. If you deny the reality of the pain of transition, the new will not have meaning, or youāll never arrive at the new. You must process the meaning of what was, and come to imbue it with a new sense of meaning. As you do this, take a step back occasionally and focus on what is emerging that is new, healthy and fresh.
PeterParticipantI very much relate to that inner sense of… Ā empty… missing… something… that leaves one feeling blue andĀ off ballance.
Finding someone to talk, a third party that can listen to you objectively could be helpful. Ā Sometimes we need to hear out loud what were thinking and to have those thoughts reflected back to us by another. Ā Sometime friends and family are to close to us, or tied up in how they need us to be, to be helpful in this manner. Ā Follow you intuition.
You might find the following book helpful:Ā The Untethered Soul – the journey beyound yourself by Michel A. singer
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