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Lost soulParticipant
Dear Anita,
“When parents feed, shelter and clothe their child and take away the child the following: hope, courage, the feeling of being wanted and valued, are they doing the child any favors, meaning, is it worth it, for the child?”
No. (Sad smile.) Of course not. How could it be? The only imaginable case where it could be okay would be if the child got those things, on a consistent basis, from another person or group of people in their life… that does sometimes happen for some children.
I’m having a less than great day today due to a health issue I won’t name here. (It’s chronic yet mostly manageable but also a bit rare and not well-known.) Though not brain-related, it affects neuro-transmitter levels, and puts me in an irritable mood in which negative memories surface and my thoughts tend to repeat. In this mood, I often end up thinking of what I would like to say to my sister, or other family member. I don’t bother/have never bothered to say these things IRL because she would only talk over me or deny the things she has said and done. (But when I’m in this mood, I would happily punch her in the face. And I feel like that would be the least of what she deserves for how she treated me growing up.) She thinks all/any of my problems are either my own fault or perhaps caused by our father. As an adult, she has told me that I’m my own problem, that she deserved to have children and implied that I didn’t deserve them or a husband, etc. When were children, she was always telling me that no one liked me, that no oneĀ could like me, that I was stupid, fat and ugly, that I was driving mom and dad crazy with all my problems and needed to shut up and stop bothering them. Every day it was some nasty, hurtful comment or other. What floors me is the parents seldom called her on what she said and didn’t acknowledge the impact of it. Sometimes they told her to shut up, but this was typically at times like when they were driving and needed to focus on traffic. I always wondered why they never thought, “Whoa, what is wrong with this kid? Why is she always saying nasty stuff to her little sister? We need to take a good look at her, figure where this is coming from, and put a stop to her behavior.” Especially since, as the older we got, kids who knew both of us would say, āJeez āMaryā, youāre really mean to your sister.ā
Of course they had plenty of their own reasons why they never thought these things. They were both fairly estranged from their own families. My dad was bullied by an older sibling and this factored heavily into his having a poor self-image, a huge chip on his shoulder, and a hair-trigger temper. Neither of my parents were at peace with their estrangements but instead greatly absorbed with resentment to the point where it occupied their thoughts. (And sadly, I’m now repeating their behavior. Sigh!)
One day, I was feeling a lot of self-hatred but had a moment of detachment from my thoughts and decided to google ‘self-hatred’ in an attempt to figure out where it comes from. I found an interesting blog on it written by a therapist.
Lost soulParticipantDear Anita,
I laughed a little reading your example about realizing you could open a window for yourself… I haven’t had the same experience per se, but my father was such a domineering, controlling person, I was expected to always ask permission before opening my bedroom window when it was hot, well into my teens. And I also have let life happen to me because it didn’t occur to me I could make things happen. I stayed in lousy jobs, one-sided friendships, and toxic relationships because putting up with bad situations was all I knew.
Being criticized, day in and day out, was a huge part of my childhood. I like to say, āMost people usually have two parents criticizing and correcting them. But I had four people on my case ALL the time.ā
Iām sorry your mother slapped you; I hope this was a rare thing for her to do, although words hurt just as much as (and typically last longer I than) physical abuse.
I did see the movie Awakenings, though quite a long time ago. I wouldnāt say Iāve been in a coma like those people, but I do feel like I am not very far from the starting line of adult life, whereas so many people my age are far ahead of meā¦
The best therapist I ever went to would tell me all the time, “There is nothing wrong with you.” The first time she said this, I said to her, “But how do you know that? You barely know me.” She said nothing in response, but gave me one of the kindest smiles I have ever seen.
Lost Soul
- This reply was modified 5 years, 5 months ago by Lost soul.
Lost soulParticipantDear Anita,
Thank you. Again, you make many of my points for me.
The āI donāt know why my parents ever had meā was not meant as a literal question; itās what I thought as a child around ages 8 ā 12 years old. There were entire stretches of days where no one in the family spoke to me civilly or engaged with me in any positive way. (Just to be clear, I have two siblings: a brother and a sister.)
Yes, I pretty much was the family scapegoat as child and served the purposes you described. Later as I got older, I couldnāt handle being the scapegoat anymore, so I stayed in my room a lot and tried to avoid attention as much as possible, and I morphed into being the lost child in terms of dysfunctional family roles. The mystery comment was said in recent times, but whatās ironic is that at about the same time, my sister suggested I look into finding a meetup group for people who are highly sensitiveā¦ I have never discussed being HSP with her, so she does understand me on some level to have even come up with that, lol.
Our parents have passed, and Iām not concerned about cutting contact with the siblings because what contact there is is minimal. āQuestion now is how can you live a different life than your role in your family of origin, a role you didnāt choose.ā Yeah, I guess thatās one way of framing it. I despair of finding a life, a way of living, that I want to live. All I ever wanted for the most part was to find someone to love and be loved by, get married and have my own family, and that has never worked out for me. My longest relationship was only 2.5 years. And now that Iām too old to have kids, I donāt know how hard I want to work to make a relationship work. I tried hard in those relationships, the best I knew how that is, to make them work and they failed, mostly with the guy ending it. In hindsight, I put up with getting very little while giving a lot, which was, after all, what I learned at home. (For the record, I have an anxious attachment style and most of these guys had an avoidant attachment style.) After the last one, I was heartbroken and felt wrecked by the rejection. I said to myself and the few people who would listen, āI donāt want to date anyone for a loooooong time.ā And I havenāt. I donāt have a sense that Iām worth very much to anyone. Even though I know, logically, I am one of about 8 billion people on this planet and all types of people with all types of problemsācriminal records, mentally illness, history of drug/alcohol abuseāget married, have kids, and find new relationships after previous relationships have failed, I donāt see much possible for me. I canāt see myself as worthy or attractive to anyone other than, say, someone looking for a meal ticket or someone to take advantage of. āSheās okay; Iāll put up with her for now… until someone or something better comes alongā¦ or until she gets too annoying.ā
Hopefully no one says to me now, āWhat, so you think youāre nothing without a man?ā No, itās what I wanted. And whatās wrong with that? (Iām tired of people making me wrong/mocking me for wanting what I want, for wanting a normal life, to be treated well, to have what most people do wantāthis started with my family.)
Lost soul
Lost soulParticipantDear Peggy,
Choosing to extract the positives from life is something Iāve doneā¦ a mindset I have adopted during periods of my adult lifeā¦ but, due to a number of reasons, Iāve fallen off the wagon of doing this in recent years.
I also try to find things to be grateful for or small things to enjoyā¦ I donāt do it every day as a disciplined practice, but I do it somewhat regularly. Yesterday it was very windy and I was enjoying how my dogās floppy ears appear to float on the wind (she looks hilarious when this happens).
FWIW, I identify as being a sensitive person as well; the HSP (highly sensitive person) description fits me fairly well. And similarly, it has caused extra angst, both as a child and as an adult. I definitely didnāt have the skills or perspective to withstand the criticism I received. And I received a ton of criticism for who I was not just from my family, but from teachers, other kids, whoever. And bullying too. This lead to several negative core beliefs like that I am defective, unlikeable, not deserving of being treated decently, not deserving of friends, I donāt deserve to have my needs met or my needs are annoying or too much for others.
Like I said, my father and sister were always pointing out my flaws, all the things I couldnāt do or do well.. these things were really harped on. I developed a sense of learned helplessness about many thingsā¦ I look back now, and canāt believe what simple, inconsequential things where harped on and should not have been. Either I eventually learned them or they never mattered that much anyhow. And there were many things I was good or better than good at, but these were always downplayed.
If I could meet and make positive, strong friendships with people I care to be withā¦ that would go a long way toward improving my life. But it seems like past a certain point in life, people are too busy for friends or already have all the friends they have time for or only want friends who have similar life circumstances. Or they have issues and are fairly toxic people. And then the few times in recent years others showed interest in being friends with me, I recoiledā¦ partly from being out of practice in being anything more than an acquaintance and partly out of not wanting to reveal myself to only end up experiencing shame and rejection in the end anyhow. I was sorry I did that but couldnāt manage anything else at the time. I’ll have to address the rest of what you said in another message.
Lost soul
Lost soulParticipantDear Anita,
āā¦ too many people deny the reality of their childhood, viewing it from the imagined parentsā point of view, (āmy parents did the best they couldā), not from the realĀ childās point of view, (that would read something like: I was mistreated, I suffered a lot).ā
Yes, exactly. And Iāve always wondered: why does only the parentsā point of view matter, and not the bewildered childās? The parents are adults who have the benefit of maturity and experience; the child has no frame of reference for what happens to them: they only know what they have experienced and how they feel subsequentlyāthey canāt even explain their own thinking processes yet.
āI heard a counselor saying: everyone is doing their best at all times, every single personā¦ whatever it is that he or she is doing.ā
Iāve also heard this from a therapist, and there is a certain sort of logic to it, but Iām not convinced that logic extends to every situation. Is a person committing the act of murder doing their best? I suppose someone could make an argument this is true, yet it makes no difference to the victim in question.
āA child feels all alone in her distress and so, the suffering is not comparable to another.ā
True, I felt very alone in my distress. Plus, my siblings enjoyed seeing my distress, which made the world feel even more hostile.
Anita, I’m not sure how to continue this thread at this point… I should probably look for a therapist, although I despair of finding a decent one. The last couple I tried wouldnāt even give me a regular appointment time; every week, both the day and time varied. (To anyone reading thisāis this how therapy is now in 2019? When I went to therapy years ago, I always had the same hour on the same day of the week.) And thatās in addition to the fact that neither of them was helpful nor empathetic. Itās frustrating putting in a lot of effort to end up not getting help. But not seeking help isnāt an option either, so try I must.
This is what I know for sure: I am good, well-meaning person. I am not perfect, of course: I can get irritable and crabby when things go wrong or I’m under the weather, but I generally mean well, and want to get along with others and live a decent life. I am worth something. I have worth equal to any other human being. I believe I am worthy of being loved by someone, even if that someone never materializes. I have a loving heart and much love and joy to share. I know Iāve been a good friend, a good partner, a good aunt, and a good daughter. When I took care of each of my parents in their final days, I had several people at both the hospital and nursing home tell me they wished their adult children showed up 1/10th as often and took care of them as kindly as I did.
I believe I have value, even if my value is never seen, known, appreciated or returned to me in any fashion. But Iām still clueless as to why this is so. Why others have friends, spouses, children, and extended families that care about them and rally around them, yet I am all alone. Iām clueless and hurt.
Lost soul
Lost soulParticipantHi Peggy,
What I meant by doubting my reality is doubting my view of my childhood/family of origin… maybe IĀ was just too sensitive and it wasn’t really all that bad–I just took it all too personally. And I should have figured out how to let it all bounce off me and keep moving forward in life.
I also sometimes doubt what I understand about life currently. I’d say it happens because I live too much in my head and negative thoughts get stuck and wear me out mentally. What helps is to exercise or go do something like go out to a store and just be around other peoples’ energy… then I slowly come back to reality. Well, at least somewhat.
Re doing stuff… it’s really easy for me to do things like shampoo the carpeting… I know what to do and how to do it, there isĀ a definite start and stop. Although it’s work and can be exhausting, I can do it. What is hard for me is making huge life decisions: where to go, where to live, what to do. Thinking about these things wears me out and makes me feel lost.Ā I feel like I’ve never really belonged anywhere or with anyone and I have no reason for being. I seriously don’t know why my parents ever had me. Their interest in me as a person was non-existent. From even when I was maybe 6 or so, I felt like I was on my own in many ways. Like I was supposed to run on auto-pilot, be a ‘plug-and-play’ kid–like they could give me the inputs (food, clothing, shelter), and I should be able to do all the rest. Yes, they fed, sheltered, and clothed me. But they didn’t bother to understand me, guide me, give me hope and encouragement, or make me feel wanted and valued. So when I get into places in life where I don’t know what to do next or how to even figure it out, I fall apart mentally. This is why I picked the screen name ‘Lost Soul.’Ā I only am able to keep myself grounded by keeping a routine, doing what needs to be done (chores, exercising, eating well, paying bills), and giving myself some extra tasks to do.
I have no one IRL to talk to about this. My siblingsĀ don’t get it. In fact, my sister is someone who has always known what she wants and can’t fathom someone who doesn’t. She has told me I am a mystery to her. And I think, “Where’s the mystery?” All I want is to belong and live a decent life. To know other people care that I exist, and to have people I can confide in, talk things out with when I’m feeling lost/stuck. (I think if I had all of this, it would be as if someone had loaded me up with rocket fuel!) My sister refuses to do these things (be someone I can talk to / help me sort things out / be a consistent, warm, friendly presence in my life) because it would be ‘coddling’ me to do them. In her view, I need to be strong and independent and figure things out for myself, by myself.Ā <– I don’t think this will ever happen. What do I feel like? I feel like I’m on a small life raft floating in the middle of the ocean, hoping that one day a boat will pass by and rescue me.
Wow, I’ve written a lot here. I didn’t even know I could do that, I thought my brain was too fried from stress. Thank you for everything you said. You are right: I should not expect too much of myself, congratulate myself for what I do get done, and take a break. Last night I went to bed at 8 p.m. I wasn’t physically tired and didn’t fall asleepĀ until after 10 p.m. I laid there in the dark and zoned out listening to the noises from outside to try to forget about everything for a while. I think it helped some. Thank you for writing to me. It’s so good to have a response from someone. So often, when I attempt to talk to my sister, I get no response at all and it feels terrible.
Lost Soul
- This reply was modified 5 years, 5 months ago by Lost soul.
Lost soulParticipantDear Anita,
I do see your point… in fact, you are making my points for me. š I’m just very used to people–including a few therapists I’ve seen–telling me my childhood wasn’t all that bad and that my parents did the best they could. Sometimes and in some ways they did well enough, other times and in other ways, they didn’t… like the time I was forced by my mom to try on underwear over my clothing in the middle of a store, otherwise she wouldn’t buy it for me. She definitely wasn’t doing her best as a parent in that moment.Ā Also I’ve had friends who WERE molested or, say, usually found their mom passed out drunk when they came home from school. I can’t claim I had things as bad as some others did; I can only say my childhood was hard for me.
I’m glad you understand that “cookies don’t make up for cruelty;” they certainly don’t. The thing is, even today, I am still susceptible to the voice in my head (programmed by my family) that tells me that I am the problem, that I need to toughen up, get over it, and that it really wasn’t that bad. When I have bad days or go through tough times, I still doubt my reality. Everyone else (my siblings) functions just fine; I’m the one who can never get things together… at least not very well or for very long.
I’ll try to write more tomorrow. It’s been a long week. Some things improved or got accomplished, some others got worse or didn’t get tackled. I get overwhelmed so easily, sigh. Thanks for responding.
Lost soul
Lost soulParticipantIn many ways, my childhood was not that bad. There are people who had things far worse than me who are happy, and successful with loving spouses and children. (So whatās my problem, right?) I wasnāt beaten or molested. There was food, clothing, a roof over my head, and extras like sports, music lessons, etc., provided. The best I can say is I was a very sensitive, shy child and my parents were ill-equipped to deal with me. AFAIK, they didnāt receive emotional attunement, caring, warmth, etc. from their own parents. They were also very anxious and unsure in dealing with lifeāalthough I never saw them as anxious until I was an adult because they expressed their anxiety in sarcasm, criticism, irritation, and tantrums. (Until a therapist talked me through some things, the picture I had had of anxious people was of nervous, nail-biting timid types.)
I was also the youngest and was the family chew toy for my siblings. My father and one of my siblings were very similar in mindsetāharsh, critical, āget-over-itā types. They always focused on my flaws and deficiencies to the point where I came to think there was NOTHING good or right about me. My other sibling mocked and ridiculed me to no end; it was his hobby and both enormous fun for him as well how he relieved his own frustrations.
And my mom? Well, in some ways she was there for meāshe would bake a batch of cookies almost any time you wanted, sew Halloween costumes, drive us everywhere we needed to go, cooked from scratch every day. But she found my emotional problemsāshyness, trouble making friends, anxiety over trying new thingsātoo much for her. I was constantly having to chase her down to get her help with such things, and she would almost always find ways to put me off: she was tired, had too much to do, had to help one of my other siblings first, and once she started working when I was an tween, she was almost never there for me emotionally.
Lost soulParticipantThank you ā Anita, Peggy, Brandy and Inky ā for replying. Sorry it’s taken me a few days to respond. Iāve avoided coming here the past two days because even on an anonymous forum, Iām afraid of how people will react to me.
Anita ā what you wrote sounds a lot like me. Off and on, but pretty through much my whole life, I have felt excruciatingly lonely and removed from life, like I just donāt belong. And many times I feel like I donāt even exist. Was your loneliness like this–that is, lifelong?
Brandy ā thank you, just thank you!
Inky ā I do things on my listā¦ just not the difficult ones. The past few days, I shampooed all the carpeting in my home, which is not hard in itself, but moving all the furniture and putting it back makes it a lengthy process. I also made myself exercise every day and even forced myself to go out for a bagel one morning. But what I really should be doing is interviewing and hiring a realtor, a tax professional / financial planner and possibly a lawyer. And then start looking for a new place to live. But I had the excuse of a holiday weekend (Iām in the U.S.) to not do any of those. I also should have gone out shopping for groceries, but oh well, tomorrow will be soon enough.
Peggy ā thank you for your reply. Iām mentally exhausted/overwhelmed rather than physically so. Itās interesting you mentioned Bach flower remedies. I had never tried them before but randomly bought myself one of them (āWild Roseā) back in February when I was visiting the health food storeā¦ and then I never used it! After reading your message, I decided to take it, and I did feel better for most of the day.
I asked if I can ask for what I need because Iāve shared a bit on other support forums and got responses like, āGod, youāre a mess,ā āPick yourself up by your bootstrapsā and āGet over yourself.ā I donāt find that kind of response helpful, however well-intentioned it might be. What I need is warmth, reassurance, and just knowing people care. I donāt have that in my life now, and never had it growing up.
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