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Cali ChicaParticipant
Dear Anita,
I spent my day talking to two woman that were distressed and wanted to speak to me. not one, but two. clearly the universe wanted me to put our practice – into practice! (i will use terms as our and we, signifying that we are practicing similar things – and not to overstate at any time that we are of course in the exact same situation)
So I spoke with person A and B. Person A wanted my advice, Person B wanted to share and vent. Both scenarios required patience and listening. Both are distressed woman in a currently uneasy state – both with anxious energy.
And you know what, after speaking to them Anita – right now I do not feel more anxious, I do not feel triggered, and I do not feel worse. In fact, I feel centered.
Why is that? Well for the first time in practically my whole life, I did not interrupt this person sharing their story. I took a step back and did some self talk – I said, wow, this person is struggling, she may have trouble getting her words out, she may have trouble even knowing what to say, she may not even know what she’s thinking, so give her the space to get it out. This space didn’t just work for her, it worked for me. It was that much more relaxing to sit back and breathe as this person unraveled their story. It was that much less burdensome. I didn’t have to jump in and be the savior – no I did not. I wasn’t asked to first of all, but more importantly, I didn’t assume knee-jerk that this was my role.
So then later in the day when I spoke to person B, with an entirely different scenario, but distressed as well – I had practice. And like I said before, practice and “feel good patterns” can stick over time. With person B I did an even better job of listening. It allowed her comfort in getting her story out in different fragments, and time to collect her thoughts. It allowed me to have similar self talk again, to remind myself that this person needs someone to be patient.
Now, what did this do for me. It made me think Instantly that WE, you and I, are not like others Anita. I don’t mean to say this to sound elitist – but the way our brain works is not the norm.
We have encountered so much trauma and abuse, and we have risen above, to the point that we are writing eloquently today in this moment – oh how uncommon this. How unique this is. How extraordinary.
So with that, I had a reminder that most people do not process things the way we may do now – knowing what we know, experiencing what we have. I do not expect them to – neither do you. But with that, it was important for me to remind myself that. I may want to jump in and help someone, but have to realize that the wavelength of their mind may not be at the same place mine is – it may not be right now yet, or may never be.
We are all different humans, we can be loving and supportive, but we must also value that the depth of our emotional progress should not be mirrored onto others so simply – we should not expect it, and we should not project it.
It made me proud of us today though. I was a good listener and supporter – but with that felt even more confident in my ability to be where I am in this world now – not dealing with the distress of a friend, a spouse, or work – but no that of the one who raised me. Same as you. Now that is a feat. It is an ongoing journey, but I have gratitude for all the work you have done to get where you are – and now the work I have done to get to where I am.
So in conclusion, I believe we make great supporters, and we are learning to be great listeners. We can be grateful for this gift and for our progress. It is a special gift, the courage, bravery, and emotional ability we have. But perhaps…we can keep it as my/our little gift, it does not have to be extended out to all, and each and every person. They may not understand it, appreciate it, or even need it – and that effort we put forth to extend it can take a toll on us. We may want people to see things the way we do, to decrease their suffering, to help them get by – but our emotional journey can not be mirrored onto them. By listening we can protect them, and our selves. By protecting ourselves, we protect our journey, and also our role in this world.
- This reply was modified 6 years, 1 month ago by Cali Chica.
- This reply was modified 6 years, 1 month ago by Cali Chica.
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
the universe has aligned forces for me to practice this today more than ever. To be continued…I’ll write more about my day soon!
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
I shall practice too – and as always keep this conversation in mind. I will loop back with some thoughts from my practice (as practice can be in the smallest ways, even observing our own mind first – before others), and feel free to share yours as well!
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
Good morning – and you an inspiration to me as well – always!
You wrote: ” I felt empathy for the person’s pain and the compulsion to do say something ASAP to make his pain stop”
Yes, exactly! It is so nice to talk to someone who just gets it. I feel the same often, and often it feels quite burdensome. Now, I try to remind myself that this is self-inflicted. Why is that hard to realize/process?
Well..because with our mothers it was not self-inflicted. It was inflicted by them, onto us, for our entire life. Overt, and covert. Overt is easier — “i am sad, make me happy.” covert is much more difficult and insidious — “oh if only i could find some joy in this world..sigh…”
So we Cali Chica and Anita – jump to this! oh mother, I wish you could find some joy too – let me help you – let me not rest until I find it for you….let me dedicate my life to this…let me make myself miserable doing this…let me wake up one day and feel defeated by this.
You know Anita, we carry a feeling of defeat and exhaustion that truly no one can understand. YET, we still innately feel above, as you wrote, compelled to help ASAP! Isn’t it crazy how deep programming from our mothers run – that even at our lowest we jump into that mode, like an animal ready to attack even when wounded…
I guess we always were in survival mode, fight or flight…so it persists. We don’t ALLOW ourselves to step back, observe, and just be. It is not innate to us.
But, it may sound odd– reminding ourselves (and each other) of this incredible defeat and exhaustion is important. It is not self-wallowing, no. It may seem that way to an outsider with no experience with such a life. No, it is in fact a reminder that we do need to sink and savor.
So yes, all we can do is try – and practice – to sit back – to observe – and we will find that often that brings out our best self.
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
July 18, what a lovely day to choose – I sure love summer, I will keep this in mind.
This got me thinking about the concept of birthdays – or birth days – as it signifies the day you were born.
But that gets lost, and birthdays become about parties, celebrations, and others. It becomes less about you sometimes, and more about the group, the show, and the hype.
This was definitely me for a long time, until this year even. Birthdays were all about big groups, and parties, lots of friends, sometimes even grand gestures. Sure it was great – but looking back it feels quite narcissistic. In some ways, it is a great way to spend quality time with friends – but in others it seems odd to make such a big deal about one day.
Well I guess in that case you can think like that about anything, holidays, birthdays, anniversaries. As long as you keep in mind the reason you are celebrating it, and focus on the good, love, support, and relationships – then its great.
Like you said: the good life is about honest, affectionate, respectful relationships, starting over here, that is, within the family
On another note,
I wanted to share that I feel less triggered by my surroundings recently. I notice this is because I stop and observe (or try to) before responding.
What I mean by triggered isn’t exactly what it sounds like – I mean, easily annoyed, irritated, etc.
I find that if I have the patience to observe and listen to another person, I am less likely to feel instantly annoyed.
I also find that often people are just talking out loud to their OWN self (we have touched on this before) and so it doesn’t really involve any input from me (other person). This goes along with my increasing work on, staying silent, and not always having to interject and having something to say. It is much more relaxing and peaceful. It is not natural to me – as it is not my habit, but like all things -practice, and feel good patterns – will stick over time.
Another aspect of the triggered is that, I am trying my best not to absorb the emotions of others (when they are negative, complaining, anxious, etc). I am trying my best to remember that this is an issue of that person, it isn’t something I am responsible for, nor sometimes even capable of helping. I should focus more on listening and less on doing.
We also touched upon before, that whole concept (that made your head spin) about the here versus there – and how I often didn’t value my husband (because we decided…he is here and not a threat and as valuable as something over there). I have started to see how delusional that is, and how blind! I have really valued him more and more each day – especially living with his parents who have taught him such good morals – as I spend time with them daily right now. I find that over “there” these days is not even attractive, so much so that I don’t care too much to socialize and be involved with too many people during this time. (similar to right after i stopped talking to my mother, i called it a cocoon). I see now that I am changing my priorities and focus and i have the liberty to do so – I am growing woman as are my priorities. My life has been exhausting (at the least) over the last few years, and I don’t have to do anything I truly don’t want to.
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
My birthday is October 7 – when is yours?
One thing that your mother taught you is that fulfillment/ a good life/ happiness is over there. Not here, but there. But when you get over there, and there becomes here, the good life is still over there.
Yes, always chasing the there, what is not here.
Cali ChicaParticipantHello Anita,
Good morning and Happy Friday.
This week was my birthday – I am now 33 years old. Oh how much I thought about you and our conversations during that day and this whole week.
I have observed so much – and instead of trying to take each fleeting thought as IS, I am trying my best to let them pass by. As in, each feeling and emotion is not in stone and definitive – they are just passing feelings. This is incredibly difficult to grasp, as in the moment it is hard for us (me) to feel that what I am feeling may not be indicative of “reality.”
I notice that my mother fed me lies. I notice that her world was full of delusion. But it did not appear so. It appeared quite opposite– that her words were of truth, and that of honesty. In fact, she made it a great point in her life to exclaim that she speaks truth and honesty – and others don’t. That she is raw, open, and real — others are fake and keeping appearances.
So of course, I went about my life truly believing every little thing she said. Whether it was about another person, location, or concept of life. It infiltrates from concepts such as what kind of man is the “right” one to marry, to things such as what the ideal lipstick color is. It infiltrates from concepts of what is the “best” way to travel, to concepts of what a “real” friendship should be.
And concepts such as the last one are the most harmful. It is much easier to dismiss the tangible to say – oh my mother always preached that apples were better than oranges – but I enjoy oranges. Sure, easy to conceptualize and understand, and dismiss. But what is much more difficult is the following:
-what makes a “good” friend
-what makes a “good” spouse
-what is fulfillment
-what is a good life
-what is happiness
And there I have it, the meat of the matter.
A short time ago I mentioned to you that when I was trying to climb and achieve more and more, it wasn’t necessarily to reach those tangible goals, it was to convince myself – and the mother voice – that I was good enough, or what I had was enough, etc.
I also realized, that this is akin to appeasing a bottomless pit, there will NEVER be enough…
Now I also will add, my mother (in her almighty godliness) also felt she knew the answers to the above: the definition of fulfillment, of what makes a good life, and most importantly – what defines happiness.
She was so FAR from having these things, or even understanding them, that she PREACHED day in and day out about what they were. As though if I all I ever wanted was to get married, and so the farther I got away from a marriage prospect, the more I projected and preached what a good husband is, and what an amazing married life means. And the more I did that – the farther I got from reality of actually gaining such a prospect. An endless vicious cycle of projection and delusion.
So now you have this woman doing this, not just woman – MOTHER. With two young impressionable daughters nonetheless And there you have it – the perfect recipe for plugging false ideas and delusions into their brain.
No matter what they achieve or how intelligent or advanced they are, they were spoon fed delusion from birth, and so that is what will stick.
Our ideas of the world that were fed to us by our parents, are indoctrinated within us for life – we take them to be the godly truth.
Well that is, unless you are like me (us) and see clearly – and are given the life long task of UNDOING these delusions.
Oh wow, I can not think of a greater task in the world…
- This reply was modified 6 years, 1 month ago by Cali Chica.
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
It’s been only one week since we have ended our jobs, moved and have had time off. But it feels much longer given that it has allowed for much time for observation. Ever since we moved out, I have been living with my in-laws. My father-in-law had a surgery, nothing major, and we have been here to help him and support him in every way. It has been quite special to be here during this time. I’m typical Indian tradition style, during this last week they’re also has been an outpouring of family members who come visit to show support. It has been nice to be here to have that role, the daughter-in-law a roll, voluntarily, to help greet, cook, clean, and host these guests. Like I’ve said before, my mother never really taught me what it is like to be a wife, or even a mature woman. So to engage in this role is quite satisfying. And it is fun.
However, going back to your statement, the importance of the relationship between my husband and I, the importance of it for support, healing, and for my reassociating. I think about this multiple times a day. I noticed that my husband and I have not had any emotional respite.
Ending our jobs, probably moving, and coming here and being engaged with family has been good- but not restful. And last night we spoke about how what we really need is some emotional respite, the time to whine down, and let go. It is nice to be able to have these conversations with them because it shows me that we are on the same page. It is quite a good feeling to feel on the same page with someone intuitively, for your needs. In addition, I haven’t been feeling more relaxed at all, in fact perhaps more round up, going from the above, to being involved with family 24 hours a day has not let me really unwind given that I am such a extroverted and “do all” person. I have observed this about myself, and even over the last seven days notice that there’s a difference between what I enjoy doing out what I should do, and what is based out of my mental patterns of right and wrong. For example if the entire family is engaging in a conversation, I don’t necessarily have to always pitch in to the level I do. I know I got this from my mother, it was always constant talking with her, 24 hours a day seven days a week. So I assume that this pattern as normal, and necessary. But there have been a few times where I’ve sat back and just relaxed and observed the conversation and it has been that much more peaceful. Slow learning this is, and observation. At the end of the day, what my husband and I really need is a true vacation, some rest, and mental space. We are planning a trip like that coming up soon. I’ll tell you more about that later.
Sorry for any typos, I am observing a beautiful sunrise, and voice texting and typing on my phone.
- This reply was modified 6 years, 1 month ago by Cali Chica.
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
thank you for reminding me I can re-associate. I see it in you and I know it is possible for me.
I want to share with you that today is the beginning of a new chapter for us. We have officially quit our jobs here and have 2 months off to rest heal and sink and savor. After which we will be moving to NYC. I am grateful for this time and grateful for you. I will re read all we wrote about in the last 2 days and let it sink in. Thanks for having faith in me even when I lose it.
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
Yes you did. And I can “feel” for smaller things such as a sad movie or even hearing a story. I can for my dog. But say something big happened, a death in the family let’s say. I would feel numb and dissociated – blank.
Like I feel love that is natural for my dog. But not the same for almost anything else in life. Sounds strange I know.
The softness you’re right is turned into hardness a shield
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
No I do not anymore. I am conscious now and have clarity. The more clarity I gained about my mother and her abuse the more I gained about my own self and traits. Hence all of our posts for 2 years now. But that doesn’t mean I am bounced back now of course. I am not by any means remorseful for what I did or even aware of it. I just float through life and focus on my thoughts and healing – like what I do with you.
My definition – wow that’s tough. I see it as loving someone more than even your own self. Putting their needs first. Feeling for them and not getting your own hang ups in the way.
Perhaps I do not know as I can not access much emotion as it is mostly repressed. As you said the most or even only accessible emotion is anger. But all else is beaten down or out of me.
- This reply was modified 6 years, 2 months ago by Cali Chica.
- This reply was modified 6 years, 2 months ago by Cali Chica.
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
i am going to discuss some things today and feel free to converse when you’re free.
I have talked about how my mother is a narcissist. You and I don’t get too caught up in terms and diagnosis. As what is more important is the reality and pattern and spotting it. But for conversation sake we will call her a narcissist. An N.
Often children raised by an N develop some of these qualities. Now they aren’t qualities as a result of anger. No these are personality traits and tendencies. I have mentioned some of these to you before. Especially in regards to my husband. We have always discussed and brought it back to the roots. Such as TDW the Disney world example. It makes sense.
We also have talked about emotional numbness. And how sometimes anger is the only accessible emotion. I have learned a lot of suppressed emotions as well as unconscious suffering. Things that’s are difficult to think about in a tangible sense.
But – what if I have more than just N qualities or emotional numbness?
This weekend many events happened, and I do feel I am like my mother. Now I’ll get into those details once we talk more but I want to outline my thoughts. I am no different than my mother. In the ways she abused me mentally and emotionally battered me down. I did the same to my husband Anita. And this is objective not me feeling bad or sensitive today. I objectively did quite similar.
I know now my mother is not capable of true love for me. I don’t know if I am capable of true love either. I am a great friend. Supporter, talker, empath, all these things. But true selfless love for another. It feels quite foreign. In fact with that first boyfriend it was the same. It wa very much at the end he could not have enough love for 2 individuals. At a certain point I had to show authentic love too.
When it comes to my husband now I do not have authentic love and respect. Do I see it in other couples and recognize it- yes. And even understand it in theory. But it feels foreign in a way. And no this is not because of him, and not because he is the wrong guy. I know this is ME. I have always done or been this way in every relationship and I know I always would be with any future guy.
Pwrhaps Anita, I too, am not capable of true authentic love
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
You felt yesterday that stamp of approval you used to chase by pleasing your mother, doing A, B, C .. X, Y. No more chasing her. No more chasing anyone or anything.
Yes! you are right. NO more chasing anyone or anything. wow, life CAN be this way. In fact, what was all this chasing doing? I did not realize I was not truly chasing things (achievements, objects, milestones) or people – I was ONLY truly chasing my mother’s approval. Even without her presence, I was chasing the mother voice’s approval. Like running through the world with a tape of her monologue on repeat. It doesn’t matter where I am, what I am, or who I am with – this monologue does not stop. It is endlessly running. Now that this tape is thrown out the window, the voice still remains, as there are old neuropathways as you said. But without the tape on repeat – I can also hear my OWN voice. My voice has been speaking all along? But did I listen, no..My mother’s voice was all too powerful and overpowering mine became small. Now I will listen.
Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
i an feeling tired this afternoon doing a commute to nyc, how are you.
About this girl – I will get back to you on her. Her wedding is next week, I won’t be spending much one on one time with her – but I am sure I will observe plenty. More on that sort of topic later.
I teresting you mentioned that we can not own another. I especially like your term deep respect. This is opposite of what my mother taught me. She did not teach me to respect differences as her or OUR Ways was superior. It was terrible planning a wedding with her, and given that I was brainwashed it led me to be quite controlling of my husband’s opinions. Just a year ago I would have said no that’s wrong or this is right. Or instead of saying that directly would have found myself upset and disappointed when things didn’t go the “right” way. What way is that?! The way my mother brainwashed me into thinking is right.
But the thing with mothers like these is – the goal posts are always moving. Nothing is ever enough. You said this quite early on over a year ago. All is done in vain, as it is like feeding a bottomless pit. If today X is the goal, tomorrow it’s Y. You achieve X and say look what I did! And she says oh X doesn’t mean much anyway – Y is what counts. So now you must chase the next thing. How exhausting, terrible, and down right abusive.
So today I am on the train right now – and I notice some tension just because. Why? Well it is baseline. So I scan through all the things I could be stressed about in this moment or evening. Wow couldn’t find much this time! Well that’s nice. I know it will take time and practice to alter the baseline completely. But I do notice changes. I notice today I am enjoying my own company. I am heading there solo to do some errands and I feel quite at peace for this alone time. Alone amongst a world of chaos in this city, yet solitude and peace nevertheless. I feel good in my skin. I feel happy with the individual I am. The maturity I have. The growth over just the last few months. I feel brave. I am strong. I am unique. I am healthy and whole – and learning every day.
Cali ChicaParticipantPoor service so i Think it posted multiple times!
- This reply was modified 6 years, 2 months ago by Cali Chica.
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