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  • #409150
    GenJo
    Participant

    Hi everyone,

    I’m having a challenging time engaging with the sangha aspect of buddhism. I have a background that makes me cautious and anxious around any group of “believers”.

    While trying to embrace all elements of this practice I find this one the hardest.

    Any advice?

    #409160
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear William,

    I too was a part of a spiritual community (not a Buddhist one), and it was a rather negative experience. So I understand your caution about joining any group of “believers”. Are you considering joining a Buddhist monastery, where you would live together with other followers? Or it would be a loose community of people, who follow the same teachings but don’t live together?

    #409161
    GenJo
    Participant

    Hi Tee,

    Definitely the latter.  As a husband and father, joining a monastic community is not an option.

    My wife is also not a buddhist and is leery about any organized beliefs.  Even meeting a group for a Dharma talk feels hard.

    #409162
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear William:

    Study buddhism. com/ what is sangha?: “The word ‘Sangha’ is a Sanskrit term that means ‘community,’…  Nowadays, as Buddhism has spread throughout the Western world, it has become quite common for the Buddhist community as a whole, or even just small groups of lay followers at a Dharma center, to be said to form a sangha…

    “So, what kind of qualities does the Sangha have that we want to develop ourselves? 1. When they teach, they don’t just repeat what they’ve learned from books. They speak from their own authentic experience… 2. Their only wish is to help others, and they practice what they preach. Think of a smoker scolding us about the dangers of smoking, we will really wonder why we should follow their advice, right? For that reason, the Sangha is always sincere in what they do, so we can really trust them. 3… the Sangha has a very good influence on us to improve our Dharma practice“.

    Before I am able to offer you any advice, I ask: “I have a background that makes me cautious and anxious around any group of ‘believers’“- are you cautious and anxious around any group of people, or in particular, around a group of people who claim to believe in X or Y, suspecting that they are not genuine believers?

    anita

    #409163
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Re-posting:

    Dear William:

    Study buddhism. com/ what is sangha?: “The word ‘Sangha’ is a Sanskrit term that means ‘community,’…  Nowadays, as Buddhism has spread throughout the Western world, it has become quite common for the Buddhist community as a whole, or even just small groups of lay followers at a Dharma center, to be said to form a sangha…

    “So, what kind of qualities does the Sangha have that we want to develop ourselves? 1. When they teach, they don’t just repeat what they’ve learned from books. They speak from their own authentic experience… 2. Their only wish is to help others, and they practice what they preach. Think of a smoker scolding us about the dangers of smoking, we will really wonder why we should follow their advice, right? For that reason, the Sangha is always sincere in what they do, so we can really trust them. 3… the Sangha has a very good influence on us to improve our Dharma practice“.

    Before I am able to offer you any advice, I ask: “I have a background that makes me cautious and anxious around any group of ‘believers’“- are you cautious and anxious around any group of people, or in particular, around a group of people who claim to believe in X or Y, suspecting that they are not genuine believers?

    anita

    #409164
    GenJo
    Participant

    I came from a christian tradition that embraced magical thinking. When the premise of your beliefs is nonsense then the ground work is laid to convince yourself of anything.  The church community supports this and it becomes communal delusion.

    So, this has led me to be suspicious of any group with shared but subjective beliefs.

     

    #409165
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear GenJo:

    I am guessing that any group of believers (particularly, if it is a group of more than half a dozen or a dozen people), including any group of Buddhist believers,  will include people engaging in magical thinking and no-sense. This is where the saying from AA comes to mind: “Principles, not Personalities” (a different wording:  “Principles before Personalities”)- meaning: do not give up on the principles of the group because of people who do not follow or respect any one or more of group’s principles.

    I came from a Christian tradition that embraced magical thinking“- there are, I am sure, people in the Christian tradition who are more decent and overall lead lives that are much more sensible than many people of the Buddhist tradition.

    “So, this has led me to be suspicious of any group with shared but subjective beliefs“- the subjective in a group of a dozen or a hundred of people are so very diverse, ununiformed… that we really should- within any group of people- focus on objective principles… and not on personalities, I believe.

    anita

    #409167
    GenJo
    Participant

    Thanks Anita, that’s actually very helpful

    #409168
    Anonymous
    Guest

    You are welcome, GenJo. Please post again any time, on any topic.

    anita

    #409179
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear GenJo,

    I came from a christian tradition that embraced magical thinking. When the premise of your beliefs is nonsense then the ground work is laid to convince yourself of anything. The church community supports this and it becomes communal delusion.

    So, this has led me to be suspicious of any group with shared but subjective beliefs.

    Yes, even otherwise rational people can start believing in absurdities – if that’s the “groupthink” and they don’t want to be ousted by the group.

    People in tightly knit spiritual communities often look for a sense of belonging, a sense of family. They sometimes see the leader of the community as a parental figure, who will give them love and appreciation/validation they haven’t received from their parents. So being a member of such a group can be tricky because there might be an unhealthy interpersonal dynamic, adoration of the guru, and rivalry between members, which is similar to sibling rivalry, etc.

    What I am trying to say is that beside the teachings, what is also important is the interpersonal dynamic in the group, and specially how the leader is perceived. If there is idealization and “deification” of the leader, that’s never a good sign.

    Anyway, these are in my opinion red flags and something to pay attention to in any spiritual community. Not sure how relevant it is for you, but I thought I’d mention it anyway, since I myself didn’t have the best experience.

     

    #409370
    iamone
    Participant

    I’m just curious – what is magical thinking? Can you give some examples?  Thanks!

    #409375
    GenJo
    Participant

    Transubstatiation, laying on hands, hearing the literal voice of God, crystal healing, the “secret ” etc.

    #409376
    Tee
    Participant

    Dear i-am-one,

    another example of magical thinking is believing that with the power of your prayers, you can literally save the world. That you as a person have much greater power than you actually have. So magical thinking in spiritual communities can be a sort of megalomaniac, grandiose thinking.

    Superstition is also an example of magical thinking, e.g. if I go to church every Sunday, I’ll be saved. If not, I’ll be in trouble.

    #409383
    iamone
    Participant

    Thank you!

    #409387
    Tee
    Participant

    You’re welcome, i-am-one! 🙂

Viewing 15 posts - 1 through 15 (of 18 total)

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