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April 7, 2016 at 3:22 pm #101216carolineParticipant
Hello, this is the first time I have wrote on here personally as I really could do with some good advice about my life and my situation as from reading other posts on here regularly as a reader, the responses are incredibly helpful and encouraging so I guess im feeling brave to think I could be considered too.
Ill give you a bit of history about my life but ill try and keep it brief. I was with my first boyfriend (my first love) when I was sixteen and he was seventeen and we were together for two and a half years. I wasn’t very happy in this relationship most of this time but then I wasn’t happy with myself anyway, he came into my life at the right time and took away my loneliness for a while until we inevitably started having problems. Obviously being very young we were both naïve and immature and didn’t really know how to be in a relationship or what a healthy one looked like, it was very intense and towards the end I felt very hurt a lot of the time, usually by the lack of attention, feeling unloved and finding out he was cheating on me with another girl he had met on holiday. I also cheated on him one drunken night out with friends so I guess we were both as bad as each other. I finished the relationship with him to be with my daughters Dad who I stayed with for ten years which was a miserable time for me and it was very dysfunctional and abusive at times. I finally left him for the last time and brought up my daughter who is now 11 on my own, we became really close with it being just the two of us and I put all my energy into being a better mum as I felt I let her down by the problems and the arguments she would hear from me and her dad at the time. Since the time I left my first boyfriend he had never really let me go as he would call round (when I was living at my mums) for tea and stay the hour (normally to talk all about him) or sending the odd email and every year he would send me a birthday card which I thought was really sweet. I was always torn with seeing him as it confused me as he would not show he was interested in me romantically as nothing personal was ever talked about and he only seemed to want to talk about work although I could always sense he was there for another reason, sometimes he would have a girlfriend, other times not, I started to notice I was getting really disappointed after his visits as I was always left wondering what did he want from me and I noticed it was usually me giving him most of the attention. I figured he must value me as he is always the one doing the visiting and keeping contact apart from one time when I did spend the night with him when I had broke up with my daughters dad. One time he came round to see me (I was with someone at the time) to give me a list of all the things he wanted to achieve in his life and the first one was to be with his soul mate (he told me this was me a while later) he was in a relationship with his long term girlfriend who was struggling to cope with her dying mum and it was causing a wedge between them. His girlfriend didn’t know he was still seeing me as a friend. That night he asked me to kiss him and I refused as he was already with his girlfriend and he should be supporting her as her mum was dying and I wasn’t available either. I started to feel used and I told him if he wants to be with me then he should finish with his girlfriend. After this time and it not working out with my boyfriend who left me heart broken and he continued to stay with his girlfriend I decided that I was going to try and avoid him and not be ‘friends’ anymore as it was only leaving me feeling confused and upset all the time. It was really quiet for a while and I thought that I would never see him again and he was definetly moving on, I accepted this until one day he rang me and told me he was feeling really low. He was back living with his mum, it hadn’t worked out with his girlfriend and she asked him to leave, the whole time ive known him he has always suffered with depression and been a very sad person, I was happy to reconnect with him as I was not feeling good either and I thought finally were both available even though he only rang me as he was in a really dark place. I went to see him to listen and support him and I asked him if he wanted to start dating. As I felt like I had changed and grown up so much from the last time we were together, I thought we could make a better go of things as we were older and I had been on a journey of self discovery through therapy (mainly about my childhood) and as long as we took it slowly we had great potential. I encouraged him to go to therapy as I thought he would definitely benefit from it (and we had spoken about this before as he would talk to me about his problems about wanting a purpose in life) as I value therapy so much as it has really helped me, he agreed and has been in therapy the whole time we have been together.He has become stronger in some ways but still has a lot to work to do in other areas but from how he felt when he rang that day, it has been slow and steady. When we got back together and he became lifted from being in a dark place, he promised me the world with all his love letters, he wrote about marriage, children and having our own place and how he has wanted to be back with me for so long and has thought about me the whole time, it was so romantic, I tried not to get caught up in it all and to remain grounded but it was so intense and I felt loved. I started to become overwhelmed after a while from him denying me of having any space and needing to attend to my daughters needs, I was becoming exhausted. When I did have a day to myself so I could reflect and spend time alone or with my daughter, he would pick arguments with me and say I was rejecting him in a very aggressive way, I realised in the end this is what I was faced with if I said I wanted time alone, other areas in my life suffered due to the attention I was giving the relationship, I felt let down and unsupported with work, with financial help, parenting and now just used. It feels like we have been through so much together good and bad as I haven’t mentioned any positive things here which there are but the majority of the time it has been really hard being with him. it has been just over two years and it has been immensely challenging for both of us in so many ways. Our problems have shown me where I have had to grow and what love is really about as I was quite rigid in my perception of how a relationship should be, I have wrote a lot on the lead up to us getting back together but I feel like I have wrote too much already. He has regressed in therapy and in spite of my efforts to take it slow it hasn’t turned out that way as he has been very needy and showing controlling behaviour at times. As a result of this I have become angry at him through hurt and frustration, I have let myself down. Now we are hanging on by a thread and are going to return to couples therapy but I feel like every time we talk about what were trying to build on it isn’t long before it changes, he has given me enough reasons to leave for reasons I haven’t even mentioned and at times I have told him I didn’t want him when I have reacted to feeling hurt by him which has damaged a lot of our trust which was never really there anyway. I keep hoping it will work with him as I feel such a strong attachment to him, its like I feel were the same, we have the same wounds and the same defences but we want the same a healthy loving relationship where we both feel safe to be ourselves. I have told him that at the moment its best if we only see each other when my daughter goes to her dads at the weekend as I am trying to protect her as she has been emotionally hurt from all this too which I feel guilty about. its all a mess but I have invested so much into this, we have history and I love him, but I don’t trust him. I want to grow and mature as a person and I want this to be with him but I don’t want to waste any more time with him if we can never be happy.Thankyou to anyone who has taking the time to read all this.
April 7, 2016 at 4:10 pm #101219AnonymousGuestDear unworthy:
I would very much like to read your post and reply and hope to be able to do so in a few hours from now. I hope you get responses from others before that.
anita
April 7, 2016 at 8:53 pm #101225AnonymousGuestDear unworthy:
It is a good idea to protect your daughter from atmosphere of conflict and distress, so spending time with your boyfriend when she visits her father is a good idea.
I would say tell him that Couple Therapy is the only hope your relationship has. Have a few sessions with a competent therapist. In those sessions the therapist should focus on Interpersonal Skills to be learned by the two of you and practiced during the session and in between sessions. Those interpersonal skills are like rules-of-interaction, how to talk to each other, always remembering EAR: Empathy, Assertiveness, Respect.
Before anything, interpersonal skills.
Before and in addition, if you haven’t so far, maybe you can get a book on interpersonal skills and the two of you can read and practice.
You and him have been lost for a long time. You found meaning in your therapy, and he got something out of his therapy before being lost again. The two of you together have enough experience in therapy to help each other with the guidance of the couple therapist. The therapist should jump start the two of you on the path of a Win-Win relationship.
So I would say Stay until a few sessions into the couple therapy (with a competent therapist). If he does not cooperate with the therapist and does not do the homework given, the practice of the skills, then Go. If he tries hard, and so do you, the Stay.
Some regression in therapy, in healing is unavoidable but should not be a complete regression, a step backward, a few forward.
When are you thinking of starting the couple therapy?
anita
April 8, 2016 at 4:49 am #101258InkyParticipantDear unworthy (can you change your username? Unworthy you’re not!),
Not to be all simplistic, but life works best when we do things in the right order.
I wouldn’t see him (or anyone!) until your daughter is grown. I mean, yes, you can have a romantic life, but only during school hours LOL! My point is that kids don’t need this “Other” in the background (or foreground) stealing their parent’s attention. And the fact that he’d get mad about where you allocated your time ~ a bad sign and what message/s does that give your daughter?
My view is he had his chance with you ~ back in high school! It’s time for a relationship where you can be with a fellow grown up ~ who acts like an adult!
Best,
Inky
April 8, 2016 at 3:19 pm #101320carolineParticipantHello, thankyou for taking the time to respond to me, it has really helped already just being able to type it all out to try and get some clarity into how I am feeling. Both responses have been insightful.
Anita-I have read your replies to many others on here and I have found the advice you have given very solid, trusting and very inspiring especially as you have shared at times and been so open about your personal life and seem very dedicated on the road to self acceptance.
In answer to your question, I am actually starting the therapy tomorrow although we were doing it last year for about four months. I am really hoping this time it will help us both and we feel more positive about each other, I told him it was our only hope today but he said he would speak to me properly tomorrow. As I have decided to only spend time with him when my daughter isn’t around, it has and will take the pressure off me as there were so many times it was so stressful keeping them both happy, I was always worrying if daughter was feeling ignored (which many times she was which upset both of us) this is one of the reasons I get so frustrated as I say to him so many times that he needs to give her more attention, show interest and to listen more but he just cant seem to do it so I feel I have to do it all. It feels like I am not being honest with her though as I told her at the time it was over between us (not expecting my feelings would change).
We are both reading the The Five Love Languages (well I am and I hope he is) by Gary Chapman as my therapist recommended it and I have read online its very useful for couples experiencing communication difficulties. I will just focus my efforts on interpersonal skills and I remember early signs of this being a problem when we got back together. When we were younger, his personality in my mind looking back seemed very different to who he is today, when I was trying to be myself he becomes paranoid and finds it really hard to relax if there is no talking, I am a quiet person by nature and told him this many times, maybe too quiet due to growing up with little attention so it is very familiar and comfortable for me so trying to find a middle ground is challenging. I feel a lot of the time as I relate to him, the way I did as a child, ignored and there to please. I don’t do so much of the pleasing now, no where near as much as I used to which is why it flowed so well initially and without realising I got fed up with feeling like the same frustrated and lonely girl I always was. I have felt loved by him and he was so kind and caring but he said because I have hurt him so much (rejecting him and saying mean words in anger) that he finds it hard to give me what I need. We both realise that trust is what is missing and it would be a miracle if I could trust him especially when it comes to other woman.Inky- I guess unworthy was a good fit for me but days like today when I am feeling better I think I am being to hard on myself but my the message I hear in my head when I am hurt and sad is ‘I don’t deserve this’ but I want to feel like I am good enough but when I start comparing myself to others or find it uncomfortable letting people get close to me it confirms my belief. My anxiety shows me up with people and I feel shame because of it. I know what you mean about being a grown up, again this is why I have been so frustrated as I feel like a mother to him, totally not living up to my expectations and so different to how I thought he was before. (He would say the same about me most likely) Your right though parenting is always top priority and I will have to forgive myself for letting this slide.
April 8, 2016 at 8:57 pm #101346AnonymousGuestDear unworthy:
Thank you for your comment for me. I want to re-read your last post tomorrow when I feel not as tired as I am now.
If you read this before I write again, can you write more about your boyfriend’s attitudes and behaviors in the past regarding your daughter? How did he treat her? How was his presence in your home disruptive to your daughter? I think I missed something on this very important matter of his affect and effect on your daughter..
anita
April 9, 2016 at 5:13 am #101357carolineParticipantAnita- he has tried to get along with her, at first he was more enthusiastic but my daughter foubd this challenging as she was used to it always being the two if us, he was very patient with her during this time (more than me) as she was struggling with her anger and was lashing iut and being disruptive, it was a very hard timetime for all of us as she was adjusting to him being in our lives.He has tried to be more happier when they first reconnect but she tends to criticise him and challenges him which causes alot of tension, then he would stop giving her attention and would focus his attention on his phone while in her presense ( I have told him many times not to do this) now he doesnt have much energy for both of us and does not engage as he is always consumed with his depression and tiredness, so I have overcompensated for this and my daughter is used to his way of being which is something I dont ever want her to get used too but the three of us are very open with each other of how we feel, it is hard for the three of us to feel safe and content at the same time. He has never physically harmed her and occasionally has shouted at her and she has heard many arguments which im not proud of, so he could be so much better which he has admitted but this is not enough, he needs to consistently give my daughter what she needs.
I hope thus helps anita and I will come back again as I have had a positive session in coupkes therapy today.
April 9, 2016 at 7:30 am #101362AnonymousGuestDear unworthy:
This is a big day, the first of maybe a series of couple therapy sessions. Please do post with what went on in this session. You wrote above that the two of you attended four months of couple therapy, I think, last year.
You wrote: “…he said because I have hurt him so much (rejecting him and saying mean words in anger)”
First rule of interpersonal skills for the purpose of having a loving relationship is to stop all forms of abuse, including verbal abuse which is “saying mean words in anger.”
This has to stop on your part. When you are angry, take a break, calm down, distract yourself, meditate… whatever it takes so to not say mean words, not to your boyfriend and most importantly, not to your daughter.
(Would be really good if you don’t say mean words to yourself when you are angry at yourself!)
It seems to me that you think your boyfriend needed to be like a loving parent to your daughter when he spent time with her. Not necessarily. It was not the time to do that then or now. You and him are not an item, so it was and is too early. Only if and when you and him are a committed, solid item, committed to a life together, then, at that point, I would think of him as a co-parent, or a parent figure, not before.
I think it is a good idea, excellent idea, that you are seeing him at this point when your daughter is away, especially since you told your daughter that the relationship with him was over. I would keep it like this for a long time… until and IF you and him become a solid item, an item that is likely to last through the remaining of your daughter’s childhood at the least.
Looking forward to your update.
anita
April 28, 2016 at 12:28 pm #103040carolineParticipantHello, I want to start by saying I am really sorry for replying so late. I guess I was struggling from what you had last said Anita and I have been feeling emotionally overwhelmed since I last wrote anything. Ok I want to respond to what you last said. I totally agree with you about me needing to stop saying hurtful comments when I am angry, it is destructive, damages trust and hurts people including myself. I really regret all the times I have done this to people I have cared about during my life, unfortunately I learned this growing up by listening to drunken arguments between my mum and dad and it has been a coping defence for me when I am hurt. I need to stop and since we last spoke I have barely done this even though I have received verbal insults, hurts and criticism by my partner.
It is much more peaceful between me and my daughter and I still continue to separate my relationship and parenting, it is lovely to feel more calmer around her and more able for daily challenges, I am trying to be the best parent I can be, putting much more awareness in to what I say and how I say it. I have always tried to do my best for her but when I need to attend to my childhood wounds and I am hurting I have found it too hard to give her fully what she needs as well as all my other worries and no real support.The part where I felt misunderstood was when you wrote that I needed my boyfriend to be like a loving parent towards my daughter. This is what he made clear form his intentions from nearly the start. I wrote before how he promised so much to me and my daughter saying things like he wants to be like a stepdad to my daughter, he wants to treat her like his own daughter, he actually told her this too, how he wants to marry me and be a family and commit to me. We actually went to view another house once but I can see now he wasn’t taking it seriously. I said to him at the very beginning that we needed to take things slower but he became very intense and on the rare occasions I did try to be boundaried he would become paranoid, angry and try to make me feel guilty for wanting some space so he would always pick an argument making me feel it wasn’t worth it because it would hurt so much. Most evening were spent talking about his past, his girlfriends, his hatred towards his mum and his depression. He would spend so much time at my house as we both weren’t working (were both still not working) have family dinner together, help with the school run so it was like we were living together (committed) but because he hadn’t properly moved in and I wanted to know where I stood as I wanted to trust him considering I had given up so much alone time, and because he had let me down so much I had to check I wasn’t being used. When I would ask him about this he would get angry or he would talk how he wont know when he will be ready to commit properly to me as he doesn’t know how long he will be in therapy. He seemed genuine at times that he did want a future and meant all the things he promised but when it came to the day where he had to deliver, he would buckle under the pressure. It was very confusing and over time I just never really knew where I stood. At the very start I communicated so many times about us taking it slower, about the kind of person I was who values their own space and confided in him everything about my family history and that I wanted to distance myself from my family as they had caused me so much hurt, he would not listen to me and if anything tried to encourage to spend more time with them and eventually between him and my mum and dad persuading me to go abroad on holiday which I really did not want to go on as I know how I would feel. That holiday was traumatic and it nearly broke us up, I still find it hard to think about it. So in the end it was being argued about all the time like this was what all our issues were about. He is still living with his mum and she has asked him to move out (she has said this before) he has deep rooted issues with his mum which he is working on in therapy but I don’t think living with his mum is helping him heal I really don’t as she still criticises him and he worries about not being able to financially support himself as he doesn’t pay anything whilst he lives with her but he has more than enough money to support himself but he chooses not too as he is not working.
We have only had two therapy sessions since I last wrote on here and the last one was today. This time I told the therapist about how hurt and rejected I felt as he recently confided in me that he tried to cheat on me with a consultant that he needed to see about his insomnia, this has been heart breaking for me and over the time we have been together he has told me he has developed feelings for his therapist, fancied another girl on the family holiday I did not want to go on (this brought up all my body image issues) and this other girl who was providing support for him giving him career advice. He also told me if it wasn’t for him being in therapy he would have cheated on me, and I have had to endure him looking at other woman a lot of the time when we have been out. We have had so many arguments about this. Our histories when we were young has caused so much mistrust between us and now I honestly don feel I can ever trust him with another woman. Although he hasn’t actually betrayed me by cheating, he did try to contact the consultant and he told me if she was willing to be with him he would have done so, he said he didn’t even think about me while he was doing this. In arguments he has said why cant I be more like her, and think because I don’t have a degree I am not worth very much (he didn’t say it like this but I have always felt this and I know he is motivated towards successful and attractive woman) All my attempts at trying to better myself during our time together he has felt threatened by it in some way and I feel like I hate him and love him at the same time. He has hurt me so much. I have tried to improve my life but it has been hard as our relationship has taken so much work as well being a mum and the stress from worrying about money. its been too draining for me to have energy for my career and make new friends. I feel like I am losing so many people in my life but I do believe this is a good thing as the sister I was closest too physically attacked me as well as previous times and I am trying to remove toxic people from my life, it feels like I am losing the only two friends I have but they didn’t put in much time for me anyway, probably because of my neediness. My family is not my family anymore and now it seems my dad might have early signs of dementia, there on holiday and apparently he forgot where he was. I just want my parents to come home safe. We both see ourselves the same in this world. we were both black sheep’s in our families, socially anxious and feel were not good enough in some way.
My life is just one big mess and I feel like I am sinking, I resent being a mother at times having to burden all the responsibility and energy that comes with it, I resent being alive as my life is always a struggle. I am getting older and I feel so scared, alone and rejected. I have not heard from my partner since our therapy session earlier today and it was left with another argument both of us hurting each other. I cant even engage in conversation with him now when he is trying as I am so hurt. He has shown guilt and has cried his eyes out to me about all the arguments we have had just like I have but then it changes again. I don’t know what to do, I wish I felt his love again and I so wish that I could trust him, he doesn’t trust me either. I really wanted us to build on trust but when we get close again he tries to sabotage it, becomes suspicious off me like he is waiting on me to do something wrong, he becomes angry and argumentative and then I do the same.
I am sorry if this has turned out to be too long but I really could do with some encouraging and kind words right now. thankyou.
April 28, 2016 at 2:46 pm #103053AnonymousGuestDear unworthy:
This is my input following reading your latest post:
He is not well. I know that because he is living with his mother. No matter how much therapy he attends, I don’t believe he can heal while he still live with, most likely, the woman responsible for the genesis of his troubles. You expressed a similar understanding on this as well. His issues are deep and unresolved, not even close to being resolved. He is only in the very beginning stages of therapy and he is not yet engaged in healing, not yet.
When he told your daughter he wants to be her stepdad, that he wants the three of you to be a family, he might have meant it, but he can’t deliver because he is not well.
It seems to me that you have more confidence in him than is realistic to have. You wrote that you don’t know where you stand with him, as if he knows where he stands in his life. I don’t think he himself knows where he stands.
You so need someone strong to help you, so tired of struggling, you see his as someone stronger than he is, someone able to give you the help you need. I don’t think this is the case.
Whenever we don’t see reality for what it is, we suffer.
It is just you and there is your daughter. Although you are often enough hurt, make sure you don’t say mean words to her in anger; make sure you don’t express anger at her. And then, no matter how difficult, attend to her best you can. This is the best investment you can make. Invest in your daughter’s well being.
Investing on the guy will bring you nothing but the illusion of comfort; illusion because you are not safer because of him. Invest in yourself. Stop looking so desperately for his help, look at yourself in the mirror: you are it! There is no one else.
You can make it, you can. You have it in you. You looked for strength outside of you, but it has been all along within you.
What do you think/ feel?
anita
April 29, 2016 at 1:35 am #103092carolineParticipantI have encouraged him to move out of his mums house and said that continuing to live there is preventing him from healing quicker, even his own Therapist has said this to him. I really wish he would find it in him to be stronger but I am angry at him for leading me to believing in him, I went against my better judgement. When we went couples therapy yesterday she said we have a real strong bond, some sessions she is really enthusiastic for our potential to be together because in spite of how challenging it is we are still together but on sessions where she witnesses me in so much pain as well as my partner she encourages a break or letting go, I find it hard to trust people even her and my own counsellor who I am seeing today even though I cant afford it, I need to know someone cares and share my pain with. He is a lot stronger these days, he has quit smoking, he takes care of his physical appearance better, he keeps fit every day but yes he still needs to grow in other areas.
Anita- I am also confused by what you have said as you had belief in my relationship and now it seems that your main concern is my daughter and because of your concern for her well being you haven’t really picked up on the other worries I have which is disappointing. To reassure you for the most part I am a good enough mother, yes I have said and done things that I regret but she is loved and cared for, I know I have let her down at times but considering how let down I was as a child I think I have given my daughter more happiness than I ever received. I guess I wanted more empathy from you in how he has treated me and I feel so rejected. I know he is unwell so does that excuse him of any responsibility? I am unwell at times so does that excuse my inability as a mother? It takes so much energy for me to express my thoughts and feelings especially writing about it as this is unfamiliar for me. I am afraid you would rather not respond to me and you do not like me and you think I am a bad mother, I am sorry if this upsets you but I am trying to be authentic even if it risks losing your help and support.
April 29, 2016 at 8:06 am #103109AnonymousGuestDear unworthy:
I am so glad you expressed your disappointment with my reply so clearly and honestly and I assure you that I like you for doing just that. I want to reply to your last post after I attentively re-read all our past communication on this thread. I will look at some other threads now that require less time come back to your thread soon enough.
anita
April 29, 2016 at 11:11 am #103124AnonymousGuestDear unworthy:
I admire you for “I am trying to be authentic even if it risks losing your help and support” because I admire authenticity, honesty and courage.
I re-read your thread and these are my thoughts:
1. On personal responsibility: your boyfriend is 100% responsible for his words and his actions and lack of. As you are for yours. When I wrote that he is not well, my intent was not at all to suggest he is not responsible.
2. On empathy: in your story there are three main persons: you, your daughter and your boyfriend. My empathy goes first to your daughter because she is a child. Any damage to her that can be prevented is very valuable to me because it is so difficult, as you know, to heal from damage done in childhood and better prevent it. And then, healing is more possible if it happens in childhood. Next my empathy goes to you because you are the one communicating with me and asking for help for you and for your daughter. Last, my empathy goes to your boyfriend.
3. On your and boyfriend’s therapy so far: it seems to me that it encouraged the two of you to be honest and open. In his case he may misunderstand honesty, thinking it means emptying his brain from all his thoughts indiscriminately, including telling you about his attraction to other woman which is damaging to you and to the relationship.
I also believe that in both you and your boyfriend, strong and painful emotions from your respective damaging childhoods are caught in knots that block both of you individually and together from relating and living effectively. These emotions need more attending to in therapy as well as the practice of interpersonal skills.
4. On child abuse: your boyfriend having shouted at your daughter was abusive to her. So it is when you shout at her, if you do. Your boyfriend and you arguing when your daughter is present is also abusive to her (just as it was when your parents argued in your presence). The fact that your daughter lashes out in anger indicates she is suffering. Even though you think you are giving your daughter a better childhood than your own, it is not necessarily so. I hope you still see your boyfriend when your daughter is at her father’s, especially since you told her the relationship was over (not knowing at the time it was not).
5. Back to empathy and you: I have no doubt that you suffered a whole lot, as a child and since. You had an abusive childhood where you were alone and scared. You struggled ever since and are sick and tired of struggling. I wish it wasn’t so. I know struggling and I know long term distress as I have suffered it for fifty years. I am willing to communicate here with you for as long as you are willing and I do hope you reach a time of well being. I know it is possible for you.
anita
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