Home→Forums→Tough Times→Wisdom Needed
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September 17, 2018 at 12:03 pm #226079DavidParticipant
Ok, let me start by thanking anyone who reads and responds to this. I am not at all the kind of person who turns to “people on the internet” when I have a problem, hell I don’t even have a facebook account. Anyhow I am a 45yo guy who’s life up till now feels like a string of horrible mistakes and bad luck. Without hashing out every crappy thing that has happened in my life, just over the past year my younger sister has been diagnosed with incurable cancer and is slowly dying, she lives in England and I’m in the US so seeing her is very rare, I had a job I really liked but they didn’t seem to care at all about my sisters condition and when about 6 months ago I asked for a few weeks off unpaid ( i only get 5 days of paid leave a year) they said no, that I was too important to the business for them to do without me. I was sad and felt like I have to choose between whats best for me and my disabled girlfriend who I help care for (she can’t work) and doing what was morally correct and supporting my sister. Because I am the only one with an income (sister cant work needs help, girlfriend rely’s on me etc) I had to keep my job and risk never seeing my sister again. So I poured myself into work, I never complained about their unwillingness to take my needs into consideration. So fast forward 6 months, I go into work one day and they fire me, no explanation as to why, just here’s your last check get out, I asked why and they just said it was the owners call and they (my direct supervisors) didn’t really know why. (I work for a company that’s run my the guy who owns it, no HR department etc) So out of the blue I am now jobless, no income at all, with a sisters who’s dying and everyone looking to me to help them out and now I cant even pay my own rent let alone help anyone. I’m not here for pity, trust me this is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to really bad things that have happened to me. I guess what I’m looking for is someone to help me see what the point of all this is. I am not religious, I don’t really believe in god, so when people tell me things like its god’s will or don’t worry god wont give you more than you can handle, I want to scream. Trust me if there is a god he’s already given me more than I can handle. I am miserable and have been for the better part of my whole life. All I hoped for was alittle stability, not having to worry about being homeless while I dealt with my girlfriends bad health, my sister dying etc. I feel like I have spent all my time working for people who don’t care about me at all, not just in this last job but in most places I have worked all I see is rich people who treat others like dirt get richer and happier while people like me who try and be good and kind to others get the shaft. I don’t believe in karma because I have seen first hand people who dodge it and keep getting everything they want while abusing the world. So here are my questions…
If life is just random, if there is no cosmic justice, karma, judgement of god(s)-then why do I bother trying to be a good person? It has never paid off for me, I have never gotten anything out of it and every year it seems there are less and less good people out there, so why am i trying at all, why don’t I just say F it and become a self centered jerk like the rest of the world?
Second and less philosophic. Even when I was working I felt like it was all pointless, why work so hard just to make money so I can afford a apartment that I never spend time in cause I have to work so hard to have it, and a car to get to work in that I don’t go anyplace fun in cause I’m at work all day. Everything is so expensive that I work myself to death and never get to enjoy anything. Has anyone frond a way to live a normal life (I don’t want to go live in a shack in the woods and hunt rabbits with a pocket knife) without having to work non stop? I love my sister and my girlfriend and want to help them both but does that mean i just have to give up every hour of my time working to support them all? If I don’t do it no one will, but I just feel so tired all the time, so sick of feeling like a workhorse that just gets used all the time for nothing. I just don’t see the point anymore…maybe there never was one to start with. Maybe all modern life is, is this working to have a nice place to live so you can work harder in a never ending circle of well I can’t not work and have time to do thing I like because I won’t be able to live with the money….Does anyone have a better way?
September 17, 2018 at 12:13 pm #226091AnonymousGuestDear David:
I read your post and have some thoughts but want a fresh brain so to do my best answering you, and that, I hope will be in about sixteen hours from now. I hope other members will reply to you before I do.
anita
September 18, 2018 at 10:22 am #226181AnonymousGuestDear David:
“I feel like I have spent all my time working for people who don’t care about me at all”- regarding the recent job, reads to me that you didn’t have contact with the owner, only with the direct supervisors, and the direct supervisors had no power to keep you employed, that it was the owner’s way or the highway for them as well, as it was for you. Am I correct?
“in most places I have worked all I see is rich people who treat others like dirt get richer and happier”- did you really observe them happy and happier? If so what indicates to you that they are happy and happier?
“while people like me who try and be good and kind to others get the shaft… why do I bother trying to be a good person? It has never paid off for me, I have never gotten anything out of it”-
I figure if you repeatedly gave a lot to your employers and weren’t rewarded for it, better you stop overdoing for employers, and choose best you can an employer with acceptable practices, such as paid and unpaid vacation policies, sick days, retirement contributions and so forth. This would be my practical approach, having to do with good vs bad business practices in place and nothing to do with good vs bad people.
As far as being a good person taking care of your disabled girlfriend, I hope it is not the case here as well that “it has never paid off” for you. “I love my sister and my girlfriend and want to help them both but does that mean I just have to give up every hour of my time working to support them all?”
My answer: no, it does not mean that. Connecting self sacrifice to the concept of being a good person, the two are not congruent. Self sacrifice, such giving up “every hour of my time working to support them all” is more of a religious concept, religion which you don’t find comfort in, than it is a natural concept. In nature relationships are Win-Win, not Lose-Win. There is always a personal interest in an animal doing for another, for the herd or the social group.
There is a lot in your post. If you would like you can reply to what I wrote so far and we can continue to communicate.
anita
September 18, 2018 at 11:19 am #226203DavidParticipantAnita thank you so much for your time. I want to answer the things you have asked about. First I have often worked for places where I do have direct contact with the owner. My last job I talked to him almost every day, that’s why I’m so shocked at my sudden termination as I never had any idea that he or any of my supervisors were in the least bit displeased with me or my work. As for people who seem happy and still get away with using others, I do know that happiness is in the eye of the beholder, I guess what I meant to say was that I see so any people who are mean, abusive and cruel to people around them but still seem to be happy, they have things that I don’t have that cause me stress not to have like a secure income and the things it provide like a safe home, time off to spend with friends and family and the resources to do things that at least seem to bring them pleasure. Yes I do get personal satisfaction for caring for my girlfriend and sister and others in my life I guess I just feel like the world is very unjust and I have a hard time seeing so many people who are using others not seem to face any consequences for those actions. And I agree with what you said about in nature animals only do things that have a Win-Win dynamic. I wish my life was that cut and dry but I find that I often get into relationships (personal and professional) where I am lead to believe that I am in a Win-Win only to find out I am being mislead, used and lied to, and again the people who do the lying and misleading get away with it. It use to be that your reputation mattered..If you divorced your wife for no reason and ran off with a stripper people thought poorly of you, they shunned you, it would affect people who then wouldn’t want to do business with you because you were a scum bag. If you ran a business that over and over mistreated its workers people who heard about it would stop using your business. Our society today is so lacking moral direction that we accept almost any type of behavior and never hold people accountable. So whats the reason to act in a way that is helpful to our society as a whole? Why give of yourself for the good of people around you? Why do any of the things I was raised being told are the “right” things to do to be a good man?
September 18, 2018 at 12:39 pm #226219AnonymousGuestDear David:
This if what you wrote that I agree with as being true to reality: “I see so many people who are mean, abusive and cruel to people around them… they have things I don’t have.. like a secure income.. the things.. home, time off.. resources to do things that at least seem to bring them pleasure…the world is very unjust.. many people who are using others not seem to face any consequences for those actions”.
In the movie Unforgiven, the young man told the character played by Clint Eastwood, after killing a man for cutting the face of a woman, “I guess he had it coming”. Clint Eastwood replied: “Kid, we all got it coming” (quotes may not be exact). What Eastwood’s character was saying is that all humans die, the good and the bad. I add to it that every human, however rich, however powerful, knows that he (or she) will die. And he knows that there is nothing he can do about it. How does it feel, I wonder, to go to bed in a mansion, knowing he has billions of dollars, and yet he cannot guarantee that he will live the next day, that he will not get sick the next day or get injured. How do you think it feels?
That “safe home” you suggested rich people can afford, it is never safe, however expensive. Yet we would like to live in one, I understand that.
Most people don’t get away with everything, a man can get away with mistreating an employee, like it happened repeatedly in your case, but his personal relationships are likely to suffer because of his cruelty, his mental health is likely to suffer. (I don’t know about those with no conscience whatsoever. I don’t know if they are able to experience well being. I don’t think I communicated with one, so I never got to know such a person).
Here is a very important sentence that you wrote, very revealing to me: “I often get into relationships (personal and professional) where I am lead to believe that I am in a Win-Win only to find out I am being mislead“-
it is not a good thing to be lead, not unless you know with certainty that the person you are following is qualified to lead you, and so, you allow that person to lead you only in the area he or she is qualified to lead you. Not otherwise.
You wrote about a society that used to be, where good behavior was rewarded and bad behavior punished and so, people were encouraged to do good. Thing is I suppose there were pockets of such society here and there, but society as a whole was never like that. Cruelty was rampant all through history. Justice, compassion, kindness was never the rule, but the exception, as I understand it.
You bring up heavy duty topics in your thread. I didn’t address everything that you wrote, didn’t address the last few lines of your recent post. But I would like to when I am back to the computer in about 15 hours. Feel free to respond further and I will read and reply to you tomorrow.
anita
September 18, 2018 at 2:05 pm #226227DavidParticipantAnita, I agree with most of what you have said but I guess the main point your trying to make escapes me. I agree that rich or poor we all die and are somewhat equal in that (the rich can afford better medical care and live much longer than the poor on avg but I get what you mean) I am not one of those people who hate rich people or think they are somehow all morally bankrupt simply because they are rich, my main point is that in my life rich isnt the goal, the goal for me the thing that would bring me happiness but has alluded me is a way to find a balance between working hard to afford the basic things in life, a secure place to live, functional clothing, food, a car ect. I know that there are many people in the world who dont have these things, I know I am not that bad off in general compared to many millions of people. All I want is to not have to worry so much about being so close to being unable to provide those basic things for me and my partner. I dont mind hard work, I have was averaging 50-55 hours a week at my last job to make the money needed for the thing like housing etc. I just dont know why especially here in the US we are expected to give up so much in return for the money to afford those basic things. 50 years ago when most people lived in households that only had one money earned, a basic salary would afford you the money needed to have a home for you, your wife and your two kids, a car, time for a vacation and some savings so you could hopefully retire one day. Now if you dont have two incomes in your family its very hard to afford the basic things needed for american life. All I want is to be able to work hard for the next 30 years and end up with a place to live a car to drive and some money to retire, at the pace im on now I will never be able to afford those things. So is the only real truth that everyone dies and even people with money arnt happy so dont expect happiness yourself? Or find some way to be happy even if your homeless? If so my basic question still begs asking, Why Bother?
September 19, 2018 at 4:33 am #226297AnonymousGuestDear David:
Regarding the most practical issue you brought up in your original post and which you repeated in your most recent, reads to me that you need sound financial advice and management short term and long term.
Your partner is disabled, she may be on SSI or the like, some financial government assistance. If she is not, she may qualify. Moving to a lower rent location is an option. Applying to work in the government sector where there is job security and dependable procedures is an option perhaps.
I would say stop and evaluate your financial choices so far, the money coming in part and the money going out part and improve both parts by making better choices every day.
Is that… the “Wisdom Needed”?
anita
September 20, 2018 at 2:33 am #226451CatParticipantCan I ask you a question, so if you don’t feel like there is some greater force driving your moral behavior then why are you doing the right thing being a good guy, what’s in it for you? It would just all seem redundant and futile wouldn’t it? Maybe you’re searching for something….
September 20, 2018 at 6:52 am #226459DavidParticipantI dont really know why, thats kinda the point of my question. As to why I have acted in that way up till now I guess its partly how I was raised, I come from a Catholic family so im sure those lessons tough to be from that viewpoint have stuck with me even though I dont believe in religion. I guess deep down I feel like the world would be a much better place if we all where willing to do a bit more of whats best for those around us and not so much just whats best for us even at the huge expensive of others. All I can think to kinda show you what I mean is give you a story of how I act..When I use to drive to work every day part of my drive is a place on the highway that goes from two lanes down to one at a exit ramp. There are tons of signs that way please form one lane, this lane ending etc on the lanes thats getting ready to disappear. I always get right over as soon as the first sign comes up, if we all get over then we would form one lane and all get to go, but there are half the people who ignore the signs, they ride that disappearing lane down till they are driving half on the shoulder of the road and then cut in on everyone making traffic stop, they do this to save themselves about 10 min of time but what it does it make everyone behind them who had obeyed the signs wait longer an longer. I hate these people. I dont understand why they done just get in line with the rest of us, we are all equal, all of our time is somewhat valuable, why are they so selfish and self important? Dont they see that what they are doing is bad for the whole group? that they are saving themselves 10 min and costing 100 other a half hour? I dont feel this way because I think god is mad at them I feel this way because in general im the kinda person who believes that we should all be willing to carry an equal burden in times its called for.
As for if im searching for something, I guess I am. I envy people who think they have the answers to life, It must be very comforting to believe that there is a loving god whos watching out for you..But no matter how much I wish that was true I cant make myself believe its true…I just dont have the faith required to believe something my mind wont accept.
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