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June 8, 2016 at 6:36 am #106701EvanParticipant
Hi Kirk,
I feel for you! Through your words, there is a clear situation here that is unfortunate to read. This is a painful place to be in!
Living in the relationship, and being invested so deeply has its rewards, and tends to come with blinkers, unless you are very self aware throughout the relationship. It is difficult to see many things, and once children are a part of the picture, the tendency to overlook traits becomes even greater. So much more leniency involved for the sake of your child.
I will focus this on part of your original comment. Symbolism!
Peoples lives (living situation), are a reflection of their mind. To be around someone for a length of time daily, allows an insight into their thoughts and feelings. As you get used to the living situation, you forget that its a reflection of their mind, as it becomes ‘normal’. As an example, a messy car usually means a messy home, and a messy mind.
The wedding ring:- A symbol of the relationship, and the commitment to it. This says a truck load of things…. Note though, if you have chosen to wear yours still, or agreed not to whilst farming etc….. If it is agreed, then the action is understandable. Taking a ring off without discussing it, losing it without batting eye, and not wanting to replace it, is a clear indication the commitment to the relationship is over. Is this resolvable…. yes…. as long as both people want to! Where did she lose the ring? Whilst at work or home?
Contribution:- A relationship is sharing…. sharing of time, space, love etc… Relationship = How you relate to something/someone. The symbolism of taking care of your inner word, which shows in your outer world. I understand there are two sides of the story, but I also see a clear situation here. How you relate to your life/lifestyle reveals how you relate to yourself. You work hard on the outside, and also on the inside. I see a resistance in your wife to do anything unless she has no choice. How would she be without your self discipline being shared everyday, and your demonstration of hard work within and in the outside world…. Is she a good Mom when you are not there? Is her work that important to her? If so, why not be motivated to get her licence herself, and drive herself? How would she live having to run a whole house by herself? Is she committed to herself and her evolution as a being?
The above is more about you gaining a different perspective. Look at the symbolisms, to see through your emotions, and engrained habits, and previous accepted traits. Symbolisms take the blinkers off what we choose to see, and allow us to see what actually is.
Also note…. there are two people demonstrating in your house, and your Son is learning from both. He has his own journey to travel, and you can not take his steps for him. However you can guide his feet whilst young, to allow him to experience a sure footing before the next step.
Best
Evan
June 8, 2016 at 8:27 am #106714Maria_LParticipantHello,
Whenever I hear a story like this, I always wonder how this kind of women manage to find a nice guy and make his life a living hell… while many good ones are alone? I am sorry that you are in this impossible situation and put in the corner to choose the lesser of two evils – to put up with a life like this in order your son to have both parents… Or to put yourself through the pain of divorce. The most difficult crossroads in life are those who lead to pain whatever direction you choose.
She is definitely needs to grow up, and unfortunately people don’t grow up just like that. And I have complete trust that you have explored every method available to you to improve the situation. She obviously doesn’t wanna cooperate or listen. Is there anyone in her life that she does listen to actually, takes advice from? A friend, a parent ? I know it’s a long shot, but maybe involving a third neutral party that can reach out to her is worth a try?
And does she take you for granted? Is she aware that she can loose this home? Have you actually had ‘the talk’, the serious talk, (not about the garbage or the car). That this marriage is not working out and it’s going downhill. And unless something changes you will both suffer from the separation, but mostly your son? Some people don’t realize what they have till the moment they are about to loose it all.
I wouldn’t dare to suggest separation to anyone, but it’s obvious that whatever you do, you need to take a look at this from a very distant perspective, few years from now, and think of drastic changes, that might improve the outlook of that future one way or another. She is obviously also frustrated and unfulfilled from the tone you described, but I also wouldn’t dare to analyse her or seek for excuses for such behavior.
And I am sure of one thing, whatever you do, don’t put that woman in a vehicle until she gets a proper driving ‘education’ with instructor or … however that goes in your place (in my country you can always take extra driving lessons, even after you have your permit). She is a danger not just to herself or your finances, also for other participants in the traffic. Having your permit doesn’t mean that you drive safely on your own always…
I wish you the best of luck!!!
June 8, 2016 at 8:35 am #106715BebedoughParticipantKirk,
You said – “The note is partly true, I don’t want to be HER father.” I couldn’t agree with you more! Her behaviors and choices seem as others have said: immature. And, being a nice-happy guy, wanting to do the right thing…you have inadvertently become an enabler. I do believe you have pulled it together and started making some better choices however. Example, telling her you refused to drive her to work that Monday. The consequences or result of that action seem very telling of your wife’s state of being – she wrote a note, and called into question your interest in being a father. No mention it seems of questioning your interest in being a good husband, provider, friend or person. She intended for you to feel hurt, obviously…generally a choice made when a person feels hurt themselves. And the mention of “father” is telling – she feels hurt perhaps by her choice to be a mother. Just a guess!My summation of this all – she is young, she didn’t realize how much would be involved in being married, keeping a house, helping provide, being a wife and a mom too. She seeks opportunities to escape it all and also avoids anything that imparts responsibility on her part.
You seem like a caring, bright, hardworking, sensible guy…but it does take two to dance. In this case, I hope the best for you and do hope counseling helps…but my heart + mind in sync say this: it’s time for you to find a new dance partner! While you are at it, make sure you seek full custody of your child while giving her rights to spend time with the child. Your son will need stability of same home, same bed, predictable schedule – food – clothing – shelter that it seems only you can provide…not to mention, her record with driving and adult responsibility (i.e. court appearances missed, suspended license) seem indicative of someone who I would think is risky to be the primary parent/custodian.
Release her and yourself is what my intuition tells me. Your son will see you stronger, happier, and more whole and will be just fine…just make sure his momma has time with him too – limited time perhaps until she can exhibit more dependable, mature behaviors and choices.
Sorry, wish I could jump in and say “stick with it” but this just seems like it is time to choose a new dance partner!
Wishing you all the best,
Bebedough (Midwestern USA)June 8, 2016 at 9:14 am #106720KirkParticipantVery interesting points brought up in the replies, I do appreciate the perspectives. I could say a boat load about the immaturity, what I posted is just the tip of the iceberg. As far as having a person ‘who she listens to’…fat chance there. The person who she listens to is probably her mother, a person who destroyed her marriage with cheating and lies, used the kids as a weapon to turn against the father, ultimately lost custody…then somehow got back together with the father ( married him again ), then cheated and ruined the marriage a second time and is now living with her boyfriend. The whole thing is terrible.
I’m hoping that a marriage councilor will at least bring a rational third person in on this. We’ll see how it goes. First appointment is in 2 weeks. If its possible that this can be resolved and we can have an intact family unit then I have to give it a try.
June 8, 2016 at 9:20 am #106721AnonymousGuestDear Kirk:
And she is very close with her mother? Supporting her mother in everything the mother does? What do you know of your wife’s relationship with her mother as a child and currently? And what is her relationship with her father, as a child and now?
Understanding more can help you.
anita
June 8, 2016 at 9:38 am #106722KirkParticipantAnita,
When I met my wife she was not speaking to her mother due to the terrible things she had done. I didnt know the mom too much I just heard about her through the father and my wife ( as well as my brother&sister inlaw ). Now that their divorce is final, and we have the baby, the mother has popped onto the scene. She calls here 3-5 times a day and pops in constantly, unannounced. I have found her to be a rude, abrasive, and socially awkward woman. When my wife was very young she was attached to her mother, when the parents began having trouble the mother tried to turn the kids against the father. One day she took the kids and tried to leave the state and the police were called. The father had custody of the kids from that day. The father IMO is a good man. He is a quiet type guy, likes to fish, works hard and loves his kids.
The dad raised the kids for a few years until the mother came back. My wife says not long after the mother came back, she went into depression and slept all the time. It wasnt long until the mother began stashing away money, and at one point they found out she had her own apartment on the side. Soon she moved out and right in with this new boyfriend ( another VERY quiet type man ). Well its been a few years and now the boyfriend is getting older and he’s having some health problems. He had to retire a bit earlier than expected and go on SS. It wasnt long before suddenly he became a “problem” ( i.e not enough money ) and she was looking to get rid of him. The guy went out and started full time work again and now everything is ok.
Thats pretty much what I know of the situation
June 8, 2016 at 9:50 am #106723AnonymousGuestDear Kirk:
A history like that would make a child (your wife) quite disturbed. The two men you described in the mother’s life sound like you, hard working and not the trouble makers that the mother is. Hmmm… Did your wife behave one way while not speaking to her mother (beginning of your relationship with her) and a different way once the mother was back in her life?
anita
June 8, 2016 at 10:06 am #106724KirkParticipantIMO yes, she was different before she started spending time with her mother. And whenever we have a fight or problem the mother runs over here to get her ( she only lives about a mile away ). One problem though is that I’m not much like the other two men at all , I’m actually much more outspoken thats why we are having so many problems only 2 years into this marriage and to be honest the fighting started much sooner.
June 8, 2016 at 10:20 am #106725AnonymousGuestDear Kirk:
So the mother’s policy is “divide and conquer”? When she turned the children against their father, that was divide-and-conquer. And over a year now, she’s been separating your wife from you. This is how she takes advantage of your wife’s attachment to her mother, the price for that attachment is to not have one with you?
If so, can’t fix the marriage unless she is back to unspeaking terms with her mother and then, she would probably need therapy so to stay on unspeaking terms with her mother. You can go to couple therapy with your wife, have a great session, let’s say, then she gets together with her mother and all the work evaporates, gone.
The attachment of a child to her mother is very strong and your wife is still attached. That is a great force that has been pulling her away from you for a long time. What do you think about my projection that as long as she is in contact with her mother, this is not going to work?
anita
December 26, 2018 at 10:24 pm #271085JonnyParticipantHello all,
I know I picked up a very old topic, because I found this is the most similar situation that I am now going thru’. We are married for 21 years now, have 2 children, 20 years and 12 years. Wife does not want to contribute any money to family. In the first few years of our struggling time when we migrated 20 years ago from another country, my wife earned for first four years and was having joint account where all bills were paid from. After the 2nd child was born, she did not go back to work until last 5 years and since then stopped contributing any money saying my income is higher than her so she will use her income as her own allowance. She occasionally buys something for the kids but once in a while only. We have had lots of discussions/argument over the issue and she refuses to make any contribution. Initially, she demanded explanation of expenses of her first four year’s earning and now justify her stand ( not contributing ) saying she puts physical labor ( cooking, cleaning, washing clothes etc.). I do help her in cooking and our children help in cleaning and washing regularly. On top of it, there is a regular interference ( several phone calls a day enquiring every tiny details of our family ) from her sister into our family affair (sorry to say that my wife gets easily dissociated by my sister-in-law).
Initially, in the beginning of our marriage ( arrange marriage ), I thought my wife will get more matured over time and concentrate more on our family ( me & kids ) rather focusing on her sister’s life & family. The situation is so bad now that practically we don’t talk to each other ( read don’t like each other ), just hanging around because of the kids. She keeps on bring up irrelevant issues on any argument to make mountain out of mole hills. Foul languages, finding fault with me and kids is her daily routine now. This is not going to be a healthy situation for the kids, and I don’t see any hope of improving the relationship in future. Because, I love my children and concerned about their future, I think it is time for me to start thinking about separation rather dragging the unhealthy relationship anymore as this is affecting me, children physically and emotionally and might affect my career in the long run.
Please advise.
Thanks
December 27, 2018 at 6:38 am #271109AnonymousGuestDear Jonny:
I agree with you, that what is right for you to do is to separate from your wife, to do so legally with the best interest of you and your children, the minor child, being 12 and the young adult, twenty years old.
Lots of things can be worked on and improved in a relationship, but “Foul languages, finding fault with me and kids is her daily routine now” is a big enough reason to separate as soon as possible. I hope you see a good divorce lawyer and proceed with the legal requirements for a separation.
Post again anytime you’d like and I will be glad to reply to you.
anita
December 27, 2018 at 9:45 am #271147JonnyParticipantThanks Anita,
I am trying to make an appointment with a Lawyer. However, I want to give a last chance to save the marriage and normalize relationship as I know how important it is in kids life to have both parents. My proposal to my wife will be as below :
1. She has to fully stop communicating to her sister
2. She has to contribute proportionate amount ( 30%) by the income ratio to pay bills
3. If she does not agree, will send a lawyer’s notice. In the meantime, will try to negotiate her demand for the divorce. Will also mention to her that it may cause her to spend hefty money to contest.
4. If above does not work out, I will move out of home and start living separately for one year. May be a ground for Court to decide no fault divorce.
Please advise if these are right steps. If no, please feel free to add your suggestions. As I mentioned earlier, I love my children very much and concerned about their future with single parenting and hence want to save marriage.
Thanks again.
Jonny
December 27, 2018 at 10:15 am #271157AnonymousGuestDear jonny:
Problem is you and I have different values: I see the problem primarily in your wife mistreating her children: “Foul languages, finding fault with me and kids is her daily routine”. You, on the other hand, see finances as a higher value.
I very much believe the wife and husband should contribute financially as each is able, yes, but I see mistreatment of children as more problematic.
You believe that it is very important “in kids life to have both parents”. I, on the other hand, believe it is most important for kids to not live with a parent who mistreats them. Better have one parent who treats them well, then two parents in the home, one of which mistreats them.
It is your primary responsibility to treat your kids well. Part of this responsibility is to protect them from your wife who mistreats them.
Therefore my number #1 in my plan would be not that your wife must stop communicating with her sister, but that she must stop mistreating the children (and you, in their presence), and I would list to her specifically the ways she mistreats them, so that it is clear to her.
anita
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