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July 8, 2018 at 7:48 am #215861MattParticipant
Hello!
I am currently in a relationship with a girl and we’ve been together for 5 months. I’ve had a history of being unsure about my feelings for the other person in the past 4 relationships I’ve been in, and this pattern repeats itself in my current one.
I get very unsure about my feelings especially when I’m not together with her, and I go down patterns of doubting the relationship, anxiety and bad conscience for feeling this way, making me all fucked up for the next time we meet, and making me very avoidant, not sending messages or becoming passive in finding things to do together.Recently I have worked with my own self-image, and have started saying positive things about myself and my value. This has helped a lot, and I’ve gotten more grounded in myself. I started doing this after my girlfriend said she didn’t want to be together with me if I was so negative all the time, feeling hurt or shameful. I sent her a message some weeks ago telling her that I had a lot of trouble being myself, and that I had a lot of bad conscience because I felt like I didn’t have the feelings I was “supposed” have for her. This understandably made her really angry, and I ended up feeling even more like shit, and started to really hate myself for acting this way and for sending her that message. Therefore I started to really work on the way I talked to myself, since I knew it was a problem in general, not only for this relationship but for my life.
Things have gotten better after that, but I still have this creeping feeling that this relationship isn’t right for me and that I’m not being truly myself with her. I’ve made attempts to share my feelings of insecurity about myself, but when I do it she gets angry at me for being so helpless; and it makes me wonder if I share it in such a way that makes her responsible for the way I feel.
Sometimes I’m not even sure why I feel the way I do, I just feel shrinked and anxious, for instance once when I found out I had to search for a job to be able to pay my rentI live a lot at her place and she has quite strict rules for how she wants things in her flat. Everything from where the plates are supposed to stand when we make food, not being allowed to spill water on the sink, not having socks or clothes on in bed. She gets irritated at me when I fail to follow these things, and I feel quite stiff around the house because I’m afraid I’ll do something wrong.
Also our conversations are often very mundane and meaningless. I would really like to connect more with her, talking about things that made us closer to each other, but I’m not quite sure how to, and whenever I feel bored in our conversations I kind of panic because it makes me doubt our connection and relationship. I can’t really pinpoint what the problem is, and that makes me very hesitant to whether it has something to do with me, or with us or her.
I have a fear I might be projecting a lot of things over on her. For instance feeling bored or not like myself, when in reality I’m the one who’s not able to engage with her or others in a way that is myself and not boring.
I have a history of depression and withdrawal from school / life and although I’ve now managed to get myself to a functional level now, I still feel like I miss real connection with people, and also in this relationship.
I need help, I’ve been cut off from my emotional-life for quite long, using creative work and perfectionism to validate myself instead of seeking to be and love myself in relationships with others.
Can anyone offer some help? I want out of my relationship, but at the same time I know it might be my avoidance-tactics speaking and not wanting to relate to my own feelings and I don’t want to let this chance to grow and be loved go away.July 8, 2018 at 9:19 am #215883AnonymousGuestDear Matt:
It is possible that this particular woman is not right for you. I want to understand better, therefore I ask regarding the pattern you mentioned, the feeling of anxiety within the previous four relationships:
1. Did you have a relationship with a woman prior to these where you didn’t feel anxiety, where you were sure about your feelings?
2. In the home of your childhood, in the context of your relationship with your mother, with your father, were you anxious?
anita
July 9, 2018 at 5:33 am #215965MattParticipantHello anita, thanks you so much for the answer!
1. I remember feeling very “in love” with my very first girlfriend at 13 years old. But I’ve never felt sure about my feelings for the other person in any mature relationship. I’m wondering if maybe my low self-image has made me go for relationships where I can get validated by meeting the other persons needs, cause whenever she has talked about her problems and I’ve been able to be there for her, I’ve felt meaning in the relationship again. But other than that, I’ve never felt like myself, and it has never felt “right”, and I’ve always doubted making it long term and had a lot of bad conscience because I always feel like there’s something I’m hiding from her. I can see it in her face too, she knows I’m hiding something, she just doesn’t want to confront me about it, and so now we’re kind of living un-connected, doing our own things together, talking a little bit, but never about anything meaningful.
2. To be honest I have a hard time remembering how I felt at all in my childhood. I can remember pictures and events, but the emotional aspect is quite blank. I remember getting very angry whenever I didn’t perform well at video-games or football, and feeling quite lonely in my family, longing for real connection with my younger sister, mother and father. I just didn’t know how to ask for that connection, and it never came in the way I wanted to.
July 9, 2018 at 6:41 am #215979AnonymousGuestDear Matt:
As adults, we keep re-living our childhood much of the time. As a child you didn’t feel right in your family, so you don’t feel right in relationships afterward. You “quite lonely in (your) family”, so you feel lonely with your girlfriends. You longed “for real connection” with your sister, mother and father then, and now you still long for a real connection with your girlfriends.
I am thinking that as a child, not feeling close to any of your parents, you felt that there was something very wrong with you for not feeling close, for not feeling what you are supposed to feel. You probably wanted to hide from them the lack of closeness that you felt, being ashamed of it.
Am I correct?
anita
July 9, 2018 at 7:43 am #215983MattParticipantHey Anita
I think you’re very very right, and I still have a lot of shame when I come home to see my family. I feel like it’s my fault that we’re not connecting. I know my family also wants this connection, and I sometimes feel very guilty for not doing something about it and for the way it makes them feel. I know they feel lonely too.
Yes, I really wish I had a closer relationship with my mother, father and sister, and I’m going there to visit them in some days and I’m quite anxious about it, since what usually happens is we all escape into work, video-games, facebook, TV etc. and it recreates all the feelings of loneliness and guilt.
My usual tactics when this happen is to either play video-games, talk negatively about myself and lock myself up in my room with loads of shame, or play piano all day long so I don’t have to be around my family.
I think you might be right that this lack of connection and shame around feeling this way is what I frequently find “wrong” in my relationships. Right now me and my girlfriend are at the point of never really talking or connecting anymore, we just do things like making food, eating and sleeping at night.I often think about wanting the other person to open up and be “together” with me and open up about how they feel. This is especially true for my parents. Sometimes I feel like I can’t do it on my own, only being open from my side, I feel like I need the other person to also be open and share their feelings and thoughts.
This was a big theme earlier in my current relationship, me having to share my thoughts and feelings more, but I haven’t shared this feeling of being disconnected and empty. Could it be that this feeling comes from the other person not sharing their feelings, or could it be that I’m also not sharing myself? I don’t know how to open up for this kind of connection. With a few people, it has just happened, but in my relationship to her I rarely feel it.
Sometimes I wonder if her perfectionism about cleaning and tidyness, and her shoping-habits are a way of getting away from her feelings, but I’m afraid of being rude about this and just projecting my own fears and lack of sharing and connection over onto her.
I would love to feel connected more than anything in the world, it’s something that I’ve always wanted but I’m not sure how I can do it in this relationship, or with my family.July 9, 2018 at 8:51 am #215989AnonymousGuestDear Matt:
It is human nature to want to feel connected to others.
In the relationship between you and your parents, the following is true: you as a child were capable and eager to connect. I know because children are naturally this way. It is your parents, adults by the time you knew them, who rejected your efforts to connect with them. The lack of connection was their doing, not yours. You believed it was your fault, therefore you felt shame. Children do that, take responsibility where none of it is theirs. None was and is yours in regard to the lack of contact with your parents.
In your current relationship, there is your part in the poor connection and there is hers. There is more of a shared responsibility here. (She may very well not be a good choice for a girlfriend, I don’t know).
Going back to visit your family is not a good idea, here you go for more of that misery. Why not… not go?
anita
July 9, 2018 at 9:42 am #215993MattParticipantHey Anita
I could choose to not go, but I feel just as lonely here where I currently live, and things not working out so good with my girlfriend. I have such a bad conscience I don’t know what to do, it’s making me panic cause I know I can’t share theese feelings with her since I know it would hurt her alot and make her really angry. The bad conscience comes from always doubting whether I want to be with her or not, which I know she picks up on, because I become distant.
I don’t want to hurt her, but I also don’t want to “lead her on” if this is truly not right for me. I don’t know what to do!! My mentor, a teacher I have at my university says that I’m running away from something wanting to end the relationship, and it feels like he’s kind of angry at me for not figuring this out, which makes me really afraid that I’ll also loose him. I don’t know what to do, I feel so lonely and helpless and I have sp much bad conscience and shame for feeling this way
July 9, 2018 at 10:17 am #216005HelenParticipantDear Matt,
I think I can relate to some of the feelings you were describing.
Rather than sharing your insecurities, have you tried to share some of the things you like and invite her to discover new activities or hobbies?
By this way, you open up little by little and experience things together and have a common ground?
I have also observed than when people become distant, the other is reacting rather than acting, reacting by become even more distant and maybe this is why you feel deconnected from her.
Have you pointed out other patterns from your past relationships?
Helen
July 9, 2018 at 11:49 am #216011AnonymousGuestDear Matt:
Two people angry at you, the girlfriend and the mentor?
Can you tell me about your girlfriend’s anger, the last time she expressed anger at you- what was the circumstance, what did you say that triggered her anger, what did she say, what did she do?
(If you have shared your feelings honestly with her, not blaming her (taking responsibility for your feelings), and she expressed anger at you because you feel the way you feel, then she is being unfair to you, damaging, really. After all, we don’t choose what we feel, and therefore we shouldn’t be blamed or punished for what we feel).
I need to get away from the computer for about fifteen hours. I hope to read from you when I am back.
anita
July 9, 2018 at 1:23 pm #216017MattParticipantAnita, thank you so much for these replies, they’re really helping me!
I’m not sure about the mentor, he hasn’t answered my texts yet; but he says he doesn’t understand why I’m making this so hard and what the problem is. He asks me why I can’t just love her.
I think my girlfriend can notice my distancing, and my shame for being distant and unsure. I make myself really small and I talk in an uncertain and submissive manner. Because of all the bad conscience I’m feeling I’m pretty sure I come across as pretty small and submissive because I’m not owning up to what I feel or to “who I am”. This being small is making her angry, though mostly she doesn’t express it directly, she answers by distancing herself too, which makes me feel even more small.Your question about the anger:
Last time this happened was some days ago when she told me I was “nice and weird”. I got a bit unsure what she meant about weird, it hurt me a bit, so I asked her what she meant about it. Then she became quite angry at me for getting hurt and being negative about it and making it into a big deal, or “a never ending negativity”.
Another time was when she had been doing some homework with a classmate of hers, and I got kind of jealous since they have a pretty good tone, and also jealous of the fact that she seemed much happier after having been together with him than she was with me. I didn’t listen properly to what she said when I met her, and I asked her to repeat it and she yelled it at me. I told her this hurt me. Telling her didn’t really resolve the way I was feeling though.. At first it made her sad that she had hurt me, and I felt bad for it immediately, since I realized that the hurt from her yelling at me wasn’t the real problem, it was something that was already there when I walked into the room. At this point my negative self-talk really started to get momentum and I just shut down into myself since I didn’t want to share my negative self-talk, because the last time I did this she got pretty frustrated because she didn’t know what to do about it and felt responsible for helping me.
I ended up saying I had to go for a walk alone to calm down, and we agreed to meet later. This was when I realized I had to start working on my self-talk and self-image.
This feeling of bad conscience keeps reoccurring and keeps me feeling small and ashamed, making me behave in a way that really irritates her. I think that’s when her anger comes in, when that ashamed and bad conscience-feeling just takes over and I shut down because I don’t know what to say to her. That feeling is also what keeps making me feeling hurt from her small sarcastic comments, almost as a way to find faults or to stick to negative aspects of the relationship to justify my doubts about the whole thing in general. When I talk to her about how I feel jealous or my insecurities, it never seems to resolve, and I always end up feeling even more like an idiot or ashamed or bad conscience than before I brought it up, so I’ve kind of stopped bringing things up, and I’ve also started to question where these feelings come from, and whether they’re actually resolvable together with her, if they origin from an intuitive feeling saying I shouldn’t be together with her, or whether they have something to do with something even deeper than that, some fear of intimacy or connection.
I feel like I can’t really blame her for getting angry at me, since I’m not able (or I don’t dare) to fully communicate and take responsibility for what I’m feeling. Sometimes I wonder if I ask her to resolve some of these feelings for me in a very indirect way, hoping that she’ll say something that will make it better. I can understand that this makes her really confused and helpless and therefore angry. The thing is that I’m feeling just as confused and can’t really wrap my head around whether these feelings of bad conscience and guilt come from me knowing that I really want to leave but just haven’t found the guts to tell her, or if they come from something else, or if there could be some way for us (or me) to work / look at the relationship that would stop making me doubt what we have together all the time.July 9, 2018 at 1:33 pm #216019MattParticipantHello Helen
I’ve tried some of sharing my hobbies /activities with her, but not very much. I think I have a tendency to get stuck in my insecurities and the negative aspects of my life, not just when I’m together with her, but in general.
It could be an idea to try to do this; but then I would have to reconnect with the things I like to do, and spend more time on those things that going around being anxious about the relationship, so that I actually have something to share.
Right now, pretty much everything that goes on in my mind are my doubts and anxieties.I think you’re very right about the other person becoming more distant when they sense distancing from the other one, and this definitely goes back and forth making a negative circle. Sometimes I manage to break through the cycle and be really loving and secure in myself. Those moments have been quite nice.
Other relationship patterns:
1. I often make myself into a smaller version of myself in my relationships to fit in with the other person, and not really stating my needs or being upfront about things or behaviors from the other person that I don’t appreciate. Yeah in general I make myself smaller and a little bit into a doormat sometimes. This includes a kind of passiveness that has led the other person to be unsure of what I want to do, or my preferences around certain things. Two of my girlfriends have said they wanted me to tell them what I wanted, so they didn’t feel like they were overriding me.
2. I can easily get pretty jealous. It doesn’t take much, even if someone is having a nice conversation with her, or if she talks to somebody that seems more secure and masculine that I do. Also if somebody else likes her that’s enough to make me jealous, even though she says she likes me and isn’t in love with that other person. I even got jealous when she talked about how one of her older teachers would drink coffee with her.
3. The last one I can think of is the one I already talked about, they one about doubting my feelings for the other person, and doubting whether I want to be in the relationship at all, making me hold back and be quite distant.I don’t know, maybe these three patterns are part of the same pattern or underlying issue? I would really like to resolve this, even if it means that I should break up with this girl or have a different approach with her. I just want clarity and to understand myself, ’cause this is really driving me nuts.
July 9, 2018 at 3:34 pm #216031HelenParticipantHello Matt,
Thanks for your answers.
You have pointed out yourself that in order to share activities with her, you have to reconnect with the things you like to do, could it be a way for you to lessen your anxiety?
You say that you are stuck with your insecurities and anxiety, do they momentarily disappear? Even briefly?
You also mentionned that sometimes you manage to break this circle of anxiety and doubts, can you tell when does it happen? What is your state of mind or maybe the environment you are in that help?
You say that one of your patterns is being jealous with people around your girlfriend, even with older teachers, could you really picture your girlfriend leaving for one of her older teacher?
Personally, it helps me a lot to do some writing, to just notice the patterns that repeat without blaming myself. From what I read, you say you have anxiety in your life in general, so maybe in your love life can feel intense because you don’t have any control of the other person’s reactions.
July 10, 2018 at 4:07 am #216085AnonymousGuestDear Matt:
You are welcome. I agree with your “creeping feeling that this relationship isn’t right” for the following reasons:
1. When you share your feelings of insecurity with her, she “gets angry at me for being so helpless”. A loving girlfriend would respond with empathy for you, not with anger.
2. She has strict rules, “from where the plates are supposed to stand… not being allowed to spill water on the sink… she gets irritated at me when I fail to follow these things… I’m afraid I’ll do something wrong”- a loving girlfriend will not express anger at you for spilling water on the sink. A loving girlfriend who has anxiety like she does (and therefore needs everything to be in a certain way to feel she has control) will work on herself and not expect you to accommodate her anxiety. It is not a way to live, for you, to live in fear of her anger.
3. I don’t think you are the reason, in this relationship, for not having more meaningful conversations and connecting more. You can’t connect more to a person who expresses anger at you for you feeling helpless, or for you spilling water in the sink. Fear and deeper connection don’t go together. She is not allowing you to communicate more with her.
“When I talk to her about how I feel jealous or my insecurities, it never seems to resolve, and I always end up feeling even more like an idiot”- this is so because she blames you and shames you for feeling what you do. She attacks you when you are weak.
In your recent post to me, in your examples, you did the right things and she did the wrong things.
The wrong things she did: tell you that you were “nice and weird”, got angry with you for asking her what she meant by it, blamed you for feeling hurt and negative about a hurtful thing she said instead of answering your question. She yelled at you instead of restating what she said when you asked her,
The right things you did: asked her what she meant by “weird”, asked her to repeat something she said because you didn’t hear, told her it hurt you that she yelled at you, took time out going for a walk alone to calm down.
You wrote, “I feel like I can’t really blame her for getting angry at me, since I’m not able (or I don’t dare) to fully communicate”- she attacks you when you communicate, therefore it is scary for you to communicate with her, and understandably so.
I believe you are confusing your issues with hers and you incorrectly think that everything is your fault. Other people have issues too. Her issues is her anxiety, her need to control, her intolerance to your (and her own) feelings of weakness. In other words, even if you had no issues of your own, a relationship with her is unhealthy for you.
anita
July 15, 2018 at 6:52 am #216743MattParticipantHey Anita
A few days have past and I’ve gone up to my hometown with my family. Right before I left, me and my girlfriend had a conversation about how she felt like too often, almost every day, small things would blow up to huge problems because I felt hurt and didn’t manage to “snap” out of it or “get on” when we were together. She said she didn’t feel like the relationship was working as of now, and said that I agreed and that it had been hard for me as well. We didn’t break up yet.
I thought I would feel better when I got home, and that this time being home would feel a lot better. That’s something I always think before coming here, but just a few days in I can already feel my energy dropping way low, like when I used to be depressed. When I see my dad behaving like I do with my girlfriend, making himself into a smaller version of himself asking for approval from my mom for everything he says I just get so angry at him for behaving this way. He does it with me as well, and it’s really exhausting having to validate everything he says instead of him having his own validation and being able to also validate me when we’re conversing.
Going through some of my stuff from my old house I found a letter written between my mother and my old teacher, where she had written something about me to my teacher that she didn’t want me to see, supposedly something about why I acted the way I acted in school. I still feel like she views me as something broken or small which she wants to change, but she never ever speaks up about it and our conversations are always very superficial; sometimes we don’t even speak for days when I’m here.I know there’s two things going on here, my relationship with my family and hometown and my girlfriend, sorry if it’s confusing, but I feel like these two things have a connection, so I hope you can forgive me for jumping between these two subjects.
Me and my girlfriend have been texting a little bit back and forth, and I tried to call her some days ago, but she quickly found an excuse to hang up. I feel like she has lost all respect for me and honestly I don’t know how to behave for this to feel good again. I’ve lost all my integrity and self-esteem in relation to her, and the only thing keeping me from ending it is how fucked up my life is outside the relationship; my relationship to my family, my lack of true connection to other people and my anxiety keeping me away from writing music and doing creative work.
My mentor also says that if I leave my girlfriend, I will go back into “nothing”, and that this relationship is a great opportunity to practice coming forth as myself with other people, since without this relationship, I will be back in my room, gaming and doing nothing.
The things he says makes me fear that unless I manage to “fix” myself and just go 100% into this relationship, I’ll go back to being alone and miserable, and that it’s pretty much my fault how things aren’t working.
I keep thinking if I would only “go for it” 100 % and snap out of my own miserable negative thought patterns it would start working, but my feelings are saying “I don’t want to”. I don’t want to go 100% into it, I feel like there’s something more fitting out there, and something that would allow me to be me even more.Sometimes I wonder if I have an identity around being hurtful, small and negative, and that I long for somebody to validate that identity instead of building my identity on something positive and have people validate those sides. It seems like it’s so hard for people to validate how I feel because they somehow feel threatened by or feel the urge to change those negative aspects of me. Especially my mom, and also my girlfriend. They can’t stand my negativity, and I wonder if that negativity is a “blown up” one, or if it’s a natural dose of it, and if I deserve to be validated even for my hurtful feelings.
I feel so hopeless right now. I don’t know what to do, I feel like everybody is against me wanting me to “snap out of it”.July 15, 2018 at 7:17 am #216747AnonymousGuestDear Matt:
I agree with your mentor in that a relationship is an opportunity for you to practice “coming forth as (yourself)” but I disagree that a relationship with her is such an opportunity. I agree with you that “there’s something more fitting out there”, another woman, that is. It is a relationship with a different woman that will be your opportunity to practice assertiveness.
To practice assertiveness (the coming forth as yourself), it will take a relationship with a woman who encourages you to be assertive, not one to discourage you. It has to be a relationship where you feel safe enough to spill water in a sink, and where you feel safe to express feelings of helplessness.
It has to be with a woman who will take responsibility for her issues instead of point the finger of blame at you as her modus operandum, her MO.
In regard to your feelings at home, it doesn’t surprise me. You see your father behaving in ways you wish he didn’t. You wish he was assertive but he is not. You will have to learn to be assertive by yourself, without his modeling of it. You can practice assertiveness outside a romantic relationship, in your daily interactions with whomever you interact with. I hope you do so.
I didn’t understand your last paragraph. If you want to rewrite it in a simple and clear way, please do.
anita
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