Hey Shelby.

This is probably going to be one of those posts you won’t like but I hope you won’t run from it and will read it and consider it at the weekend when you hopefully have a bit of time to yourself. I suspect a lot of it you already really know since you are smart and perceptive enough to understand these issues and have been working through them in therapy.

You guys sound a classic avoidant/anxious combination – pretty much the polar opposite of what’s helpful for either of you as it stands. It’s why he runs every time you become needy or wanting/demanding to be closer – and why he triggers your anxieties when he doesn’t give the constant reassurance that you are loved, that you are safe, that you think you need from him.

The thing about anxiety though, as you know, the more you feed it, the worse it gets. E.g. he may tell you he loves you – you are ecstatic, yippee, finally! You feel fantastic, fulfilled – you are wanted, you are enough, it’s fantastic!  A few days/weeks later you find the old insecurities creeping back, wait, you say, I wonder if he still loves me now, how much does he love me, if he really loved me enough he wouldn’t want to do x,y,z, he would want to be with me, I would be enough for him. Etc etc. So your helpful inner voice continues in this vein – I don’t understand, why are you ‘leaving’ me – I can’t be special enough, I must be lacking somehow.  Rationality has flown out the window at this point, shouted down by the insecure you, demanding to be looked after, to have their needs met. And so you reach out, demanding more, asking to be made to feel whole again like it was before when it felt so good. Tell me again, how you love me, ask me to move in, marry me, do something special – demonstrate again how much I am loved, so that I know I am safe and happy again, I don’t want to feel afraid anymore. And so the circle goes on.

Now if you were with a secure attachment type, he would recognise these demands as what they are, underlying insecurities you need to deal with and that he can support you dealing with – but can’t deal with for you. And he could listen but not give in to the demands and in such a way, eventually, they lessen as they are ineffective, not getting the attention/response they want. And so,  with his and others support, you work through your own insecurities and become able to meet your own needs, to not have that constant ball of anxiety in your stomach, worrying about everything, feeling inadequate, feeling scared, lonely. Now when he tells you he loves you, it brings you pleasure still, it still makes you happy – but you don’t NEED to hear it, you know it already because you know you are lovable, enough. And you know you would also be ok without it after time.

Being with an avoidant type though, this doesn’t happen. Instead, as you demand more, more closeness, more proof he loves you, more togetherness – he legs it. Either physically or emotionally, he retreats, looking to protect himself from the seemingly never-ending demands ( like, would you mind texting me once in a while……all the way up to let’s get married and have kids ) that will demand his attention, require him to give up something. So he withdraws, you try harder, he withdraws more etc.  At this point you either leave, hoping for the ultimate “if I leave he will realise what he is missing” or you hang on in hope, try to pretend to be something you are not, pretending to be ok with not getting your needs met until it bursts out of you anyway.

So – all well and good (or not I guess!) – but how to break the loop. How can things change for the better, recognising this isn’t a pattern you want for the rest of your life. You can’t make him go to therapy or want to change or even to recognise that is his style – that’s outside your control. What is in your control is that you can work on yourself to become a non-anxious attachment type, to become the stable secure type that is able to have a long-term healthy relationship.

As such, all the discussion here on feeling blue, wanting him to be different, hoping for him to change, accepting you are the kind of woman who just puts up with it, it’s all pretty much wasted energy really. A way to distract from dealing what is within your control entirely, namely working on yourself. This is not about encouraging you to develop the strength to leave this relationship but to take responsibility and focus on developing yourself to give it the best chance possible – as well as strong enough to also be ok with it not being what you want, if that’s how it turns out.

I thought about this a lot as you remind me so much of myself back in my anxious days so I know this is possible. I’m not your therapist and I’m not an Anita , who does an excellent job of helping others delve into their why so no offence meant here! As you know I’m more pragmatic and forwards looking. So I’m not especially interested in working through your childhood as to why you are an anxious attachment type, it is what it is, what is of value is how to work through that. I am willing to help you work through dealing with your anxiety issues, to help with becoming the self-confident woman you can be, in control of her life and not letting life control her and hopefully someone able to then support her guy working through his own issues, instead of looking to him to save her.

I realise we have got close to this before and you have shied away from those kinds of questions. So if it isn’t something you are interested in working through here, I’m not offended or upset in the least – entirely your choice as ever. I just don’t think the most supporting or helpful thing I can do for you is to continue to listen and try to help when it isn’t about working on yourself. I know you think that if only this relationship would work out, all will be great, happy again. But I honestly don’t think it will be the kind of relationship, the kind of life you envision without working on yourself first. It’s not what will make you feel better long-term, however much it feels like it would be the answer now.  I’ll still be here if you’re not interested and you will both still have to put up with my travel tales as/when – but I just wanted to explain upfront why I don’t think it’s helpful for me to encourage more unhelpful discussion around the relationship itself and so you’ll notice I won’t be responding to that.

Let me know – and incase you have made it this far still – yes, there are some good websites dedicated to putting together house sitters/home owners – sort of a Match.com for travellers! I use TrustedHouseSitters, which is the largest by far of opportunities but also of people looking. The other is MindMyHouse, which is much smaller and basically free at something like £16/yr whereas the bigger one is about £70 after you use a discount  code which are usually available. I regularly get people asking us to sit now which is nothing short of awesome!

Kkasxo – amazing timing as ever….I’d just finished writing all that and you came and nailed it much better! This is at the guts of it all absolutely all about working on your own self-esteem.  Even being able to recognise you are sad at not valuing yourself enough is a good step – recognising the need for change. Without a doubt I’m happy to help you on that front as much as I can too. I honestly think we all need to change this conversation into working towards something positive, however small. It can be too easy to be falsely comforted by sharing pain, looking for others in pain to agree how much it hurts and so on. I did that a lot after the break-up, seeking out people who would feed my need to agree how badly treated I’d been, how ‘bad’ he was and how ‘good’ I was ( i.e. he would come back, he would miss what he had etc ) . In the end, I realised it was all keeping me tied to the break-up, it wasn’t helpful or healthy.

Hope you both understand where I am coming from.

Kkasxo:

I think I know the answer to your question. I was asking the same question myself regarding my ex when in a relationship and certainly after it ended. I don’t think he was wearing a mask either. I think it was a combination of both: you being very much in love and high on this love blinding you (or making you judge in his favour when in doubt) AND, since it was earlier in the relationship, he was also very much in love doing his best and putting his best foot forward.

When I get to interact with my ex (very, very seldom now), I also can’t help feeling that he is a different person. But then I remember how he was acting when he fell in love with my successor – it was EXACTLY how he was behaving when he was in love with me, up to calling her the same pet names. And then I remember how he had been behaving towards my predecessor – and now I was in her shoes, to the minute detail. It kind of hit home.

Ah see, I knew you was still in there somewhere Kkasxo!!  And how awesome to have one of your best friends as a living example right in front of you – life is strange like that, it seems.  Your quote is another good one – especially poignant given the recent death experience you’ve been through. Life really does fly by and it seems it only gets quicker as you get older. It’s funny actually, once you start doing all those things ( speaking your truth, not giving a sh*t about things that aren’t important and all the rest ) you start to wonder why you were quite so afraid of doing so in the first place. I certainly learned the hard way that it was only by being myself that I could really trust anything else was real. Afterall, if I was pretending to be to the world what I thought it wanted me to be – how could I believe what the world was showing me was true. But it was so damn scary being myself, if people rejected the ‘pretend’ me, who cared, it wasn’t me. But if they rejected me, now, that’s a whole other ballgame. Plus after so long of pretending, being a people pleaser, following the unspoken rules and expectations of my upbringing, my environment – it was really hard to know who I was anymore anyway.

And perhaps that’s as good a place as any to start on this journey – spending some time getting to know yourself again, what you value, what you stand for, no emotions attached either way. There are no good/bad answers – everyone is individual and it will be different for everyone. You don’t need to share on here unless you want to but make some time for yourself, get outside into the sunshine and just give yourself the freedom to ignore all your current circumstances and breathe freely. Let go of all those expectations for now. They can come later if/when needed.  At the end of the day, this is all about gaining the strength to take control of your own life and be ok with events that you can’t. The wisdom being in knowing which are which – bit like that AA prayer.

If you haven’t already come across them, two books I found eye-opening/inspirational at the time were “You Can Be Happy No Matter What” – which sounds incredibly cheesy but was one of the best ways in to understanding the difference between thoughts and reality for me. Plus Oriah Mountain Dreamer’s “The Invitation” – also sounded way too ‘hippie’ for logical me but something in it rung true towards an authentic life, to being more how I wanted to be.  A more modern version is Mark Manson’s blog “The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck”, which I usually love reading but he’s not going to be everybody’s style for sure…

Shelby m’dear – understand entirely and very happy to see you being honest about it. It’s hard enough as a naturally private person for me to post some of these things, so I’m glad you understood. Talking in person is always easier for sure. And yes, you can have a lot of very well-meaning people trying to help but absolutely agree, everyone has their own history, their own biases, their own current understanding of their world view which will colour their advice however well-meant. And a lot of people will try to get you to adopt their values, either with or without knowing it, as it validates their view of ‘they are right’, makes them feel more secure. But not necessarily helpful to you! Part of what I had to work through was recognising this, no longer accepting everything at face value but assessing if it was something I also considered ‘true’ or not. So I entirely get the wariness and tbh, would be concerned if you weren’t.

It’s good to hear you are interested in the idea of strengthening your inner self, in whichever way you find works for you.  Obviously it’s not a “hey everything’s amazing all the time” thing, it doesn’t stop life throwing cr*p at you, but it does give you this weird sense of stability within, no longer looking to the outside world to fix things or wasting time on unhelpful anger, emotions no longer buffeted all over the place. Very handy for rolling with it when travelling!!  It’s not that I’ll no longer discuss your relationship but more that perhaps I can help look at different perspectives, different ways of responding as a stable-attachment type – positive actions/thoughts. That sound helpful?

X – nice to hear from you – means a lot to know my experiences can help others. Like I always say, I don’t have all the answers, no one does, but if it helps others at all, that’s worth the sharing to me.  Sounds like you are a little down the path of figuring yourself out which is good but still some way to go on valuing youself enough to attract the ‘right’ partner. At least you now know enough to identify those you know won’t be a good healthy match. My best advice, continue to grow and be the strong authentic version of yourself as you can – if I’ve learned anything it’s that the more you know what you want, the greater the chances of it happening as all your actions line up behind it.

Take care all – look forwards to hearing back.

Hey Shelby,

Yup, I was really pretty bad too but had like zero idea at the time that it could be different. Very insecure and limited perspective/experiences partnered up with a confusing desire to want to explore, to want to know more although everyone around me then was content not to do so.  About a year after my traumatic break-up I realised I was starting to sabotage a new relationship that had huge potential with the same old behaviours –  I can remember very very clearly the day I decided I didn’t want to be this person anymore as I could see where it headed and the pattern of my life if I didn’t change.

And so began the long learning curve, the reading, the talking, opening up to adapting my way of seeing the world, seeing it truly as best as I could.  Building my own self-confidence, my own values & desires, not just taking others handed down by either family, society or media.   So yes, now I’m very much a secure attachment type as well as a million times more self-confidence and assertive, things I had always struggled with.  Though much rarer these days I still have some triggers but I recognise them and can identify them for what they are, unfounded fears/doubts about myself and I’m able to deal with them myself, without needing to ask for re-assurance.  Even if sometimes that means stomping off for walk to clear my head before dealing with whatever it was that sparked me!  Honestly, it’s like night/day, the difference. Long journey, don’t think it ever ends once you open your eyes but the enlightenment becomes compelling – I think it’s why I travel so much now, more perspectives to be gathered for me yet.

Funnily enough, I’m wary of offering advice, I’ve mentored some people who have hung on my every word and I’ve had to always make it clear to them that that is just not helpful or healthy either. No-one else has the answers for you. I get why you are wary too. Especially as one of your triggers is change, and this is going to smell rather badly of that to your self-protective voice… No need to change unless or until you want to though, reading and learning about the options, the different ways of being & seeing, consider for yourself, see what feels right to you. I hope it goes well with your therapist tomorrow, look forwards to hearing whatever you want to share.

Btw – be warned……those house-sit sites can be very addictive…..!!

Hi X,

Sure, I’m fine with more questions and will say when I’m not – though since this is Shelby’s thread might be good to check with her as to if better to start your own thread perhaps.

In reverse order then – why am I on tinybuddha forums. It’s a good question since yes, I’m very aware I don’t fit the ‘normal’ profile, if there is such a thing.  It’s a pretty simple answer though. Through a ton of hard work/determination/luck I was able to achieve a couple of major life goals last year, one of which was being able to leave my full-on job in London and have more time/freedom, especially to travel more. As such, I now have enough time to be able to give back and help others, another goal/value which is important to me.  I looked into local volunteering but they need a regular once/week type commitment that doesn’t fit with my travel goals – and so online ‘helping’ was the obvious answer. I’ve read articles on tinybuddha in the past when struggling and so it seemed a good place to start, among other ways.  You will see I’m not as active as most of the regulars on here and I’ll only contribute as/when I hope I have some relevant life experience/perspective to share that may help.  Know your own limits!

Onto the next…”At least you now know enough to identify those you know won’t be a good healthy match”

Some interesting points in there.  These are the ones that jumped out to me as worth thinking more about.

–  Agree it’s helpful to be very self-aware, the more you know yourself the more you can recognise what is helpful/unhelpful for you to invest your time in, which is our most precious asset after all. Often we attract what we need, not necessarily what we want or think we want at that time.  You have an intriguing mix of an analytical selection process combined with pretty much all physical attributes, chemistry, ‘family portrait’ and so on. A lot of pre-selection before really getting to know any of these people?  It would be simple to say you are attracted to unavailable people so that there is no real danger of having to get emotional invested again but I suspect as you think about it, there’s more to it than that. Do you know why you value the physical so much more than the mental/character of potential partners, given it’s those that last longest and have way more impact on whether you are happy together or not. Again, nothing is right/wrong here, it’s just that you come across as someone who clearly enjoys using her brain but doesn’t appear to value that when assessing partners?  I can understand why if very few men you meet pass these selection criteria that you get excited, attached to them – after all, not many pass right?  People can be surprising you know, sometimes it is worth getting to know people before dismissing them because of such set criteria/expectations.

Last (first?! ) one: I certainly learned the hard way that it was only by being myself that I could really trust anything else was real

From my experience, it’s definitely the latter. When you do something you think is scary, like dis-agreeing with someone you’d usually just play along with for the sake of a smooth road, and the worst doesn’t happen,they don’t hate you forever etc,  life goes on. And the more you do it, the more ‘proof’ you have of a different experience to your fears, lessening the fear so much until it becomes seemingly daft you were ever afraid of it.  Once you get to the stage of being able to be yourself and not be concerned about what the outside world thinks, it’s pretty empowering. I read a great quote once, something along the lines of “someone can only make you feel bad about something if you feel bad about it yourself”. Essentially, if you have done your best to behave with your values, e.g. honesty, respect, love, compassion, whatever – then other’s judgement is simply that, their judgement, something you should consider but can reject if false.

Hope helps!

Your description of the circles that an anxious attachment style goes in is very eye-opening. But why would somebody with a secure attachment style be attracted to an anxious attachment style and vice versa in the first place???

Hi X,

So, I found your old threads and have read some of them, not all, there is a lot as you say.  Curious – have you ever tried to practice focusing your mind/thoughts? Whilst I appreciate sometimes it’s easiest just to mind-dump everything as it comes so to speak but I think practicing this could be helpful for you in calming your mind, seeing clearer. You clearly have a wide-ranging, well-read mind but it’s not so obvious how you go about sorting through the whole ton of data, information, thoughts, input?

Personally, the best way I have found for this is to write your first ‘mind-dump’ out in Word or something and re-read it back through – and then force yourself to ruthlessly prioritise it into the top three things you want to say.  Like that hot air-balloon game where you have to name what gets thrown out first, it’s a way of helping work through identifying what seems most important, which is always telling by itself.  It would be helpful going forwards for us I think, even if you still post the whole mind dump, to put at the top of each one what you considered the top three summary sentences/points to be.

Have a go at doing so about the other responses you wanted to write re my comments whilst I work through your old posts more.  I’m going to suggest you post them under your old thread and let me know when you have done so and I’ll answer you there, if that works for you.