Hi @NBC,

I never thought I’d be welcoming someone but it feels so cool! So howdy and come on board mate. The folk on here are sweet 👌

Thanks for your well wishes, still can not digest the kindness of you all!

I have to say though, I really don’t believe in happy ever afters. Maybe the betrayal I experienced with ‘A’  or just maturing to realise relationships are not easy and can’t be reduced to living happily ever after also can humans ever really be happy?!

That’s a really interesting question you posed though mate! Short answer is Yes and No ahaha.

It boils down to how do you define chemistry? Many people have different definitions.

Some people describe it as purely a spark or butterflies they feel based on physical attraction.

Some people describe it as an instant “click” with someone.

For me with maturing I’d describe chemistry as a combination of desire and emotional connect.

Did I have chemistry with ‘B’ the first time?

100% yes.

How?

We could text or calls for hours. The connection was instant and I felt like I had known her forever, we emotionally vibed. Convo always flowed. I’d find myself trying to resist talking to her to play it cool.

When we would meet for dates, we enjoyed each others company so much even without sex, we’d lose track of time.

When I saw ‘B’ in person, I’ve always had to resist putting my hands where I shouldn’t- just being honest. We always had natural sexual banter and even now flirt up a storm which is fun until this day. The sexual chemistry was there.

There is a very very fine line which differentiates a best friend from a lover – that’s sexual desire. If you fantasise, share a more intimate bond or desires you’re not just best friends!! It would feel confusing to feel that way about a friend, that’s when you know you’re in trouble, it’s more!

Now was my chemistry for ‘B’ the driving force for my epiphany?

Yes and no.

Yes chemistry can show you the huge potential that you and another person can have in a relationship. It’s the beginning of something beautiful, but ultimately romantic attraction requires work. To become lovers you need to spend more time together, it would not have blossomed into the love we share now if we didn’t work at it.

So was chemistry the primary force for me to reflect and go back?

No, my reflection occured from reaching an impasse in life. I felt hollow and questioned (I posted some of those questions previously) what I needed and wanted. Who I was? Etc.

I went back to ‘B’ –  because of many factors that of which includes the chemistry. If the others didn’t exist i.e. emotional understanding or shared goals I wouldn’t have reconciled. I matured to respect her values, and cherish the qualities which I took for granted. This angel stopped me from drowning, inspired me to be better and that’s not just down to chemistry, its down to her as a human being. Finding a person who does that within you is rare.

I know if our love, God forbid, doesnt withstand the test of time alongside it I’ll lose the friendship. You can never go back, so you must cherish it.

Does that answer your question NBC?

You mentioned the men never had an epiphany, did you want that from all of them? You don’t need them to be validated.

Also a woman should never need to chase a man. A real man always steps up even if he is erroneous. Those men you dated  most likely never returned not because it’s a reflection of you but them:

A) never had serious intentions – so you’re well rid

B) Not many men can brave facing hard truths and growing. It was really challenging and painful for me. It’s sometimes  easier for men to compartmentalise and move on rather than fight. This can be down to low self worth or just that they don’t know what they want!

Hope it helps, feel free to ask more. Happy New Year to you!

Hi, Danny!

Happy New Year to you, too! Thank you for the sweet welcome, I am really touched…

I know about the happy-ever-after, but one can dream just a little bit, can’t one? 😉

I would agree with your definition of chemistry. I would say that I “click” with people who can be my friends (and more) – the emotional part – and desire, that is physical attraction (for a partner). Would that fit your definition?

“There is a very very fine line which differentiates a best friend from a lover – that’s sexual desire” – totally agree.

“To become lovers you need to spend more time together, it would not have blossomed into the love we share now if we didn’t work at it.” – agree 100% as well.

Thank you so much for your detailed answer. You see, to cut a long story short, I was betrayed by my “A.”

Then recovering, I had a fantastic date with a guy. He followed up, but not too eagerly, it was a drastic contrast with how well we had clicked (as I thought), chemistry and all. So I never pursued it. Besides, it would have meant long-distance and with another country, too, so I let it drop.

At about the same time, another man showed up. The way you described your dealings with “B” fit 100% the way it was for us. Of course, from my perspective. Talked for hours, exceptional chemistry, witty dialogues, similar feelings about things in life – the list can go on. This man, though, warned me two months into our relationship (I had told myself that I was not going to see him for more than a friend) that he just couldn’t have a serious relationship then (he was separated). He said he could be a very good friend and that’s it.

Because of my fresh breakup with “A” and because of his marital status, I had been proceeding with caution. (Besides, that guy from my travels had also messed me up a tiny bit.) When “B” announced that, I thought, Fine, I haven’t treated you as more than a friend, I am totally okay with it.

Our relationship – I guess you can call it “emotional affair” – continued. With all the sexual tension, chemistry, innuendos here and there, etc.

And then he just stopped communicating. I reached out to him a couple of times, he answered back. But he never asked questions, never elaborated. So I let it be.

That was five and four years ago.

I learnt that he had tried to reconcile with his wife, at her initiative, for the umpteenth time. It didn’t work for the umpteenth time.

Last year, I found out that he had moved out for good having sold his part of the house to her.

Also, last year, he wrote to me “Hi, how are you?”. I thought that he may have wanted to resume our communication, but no. Again, sparks flying between the lines of our short email exchange, but no serious follow-up on his part.

Several months later I found out that he had indeed divorced his wife.

For some reason – and I don’t know what it is – I still think he is the one for me.

I don’t know why. It has been five years (!) since we stopped communicating for real. True, I did get into the habit of checking his Twitter now and then. It gave me the illusion of still being present in his life. I stopped it for good two months ago. Don’t really have the temptation now.

Another reason might be that I simply haven’t met anybody in the course of these five years. I did have a few infatuations with other men, but they were short-lived and one-sided, more like a schoolgirl crushing on her professor or a fan on an actor. I knew that those men were not for me. Either in a loving relationship or clearly stating that they were not looking for romance, not just a romance with me, but intended to remain single.

On the other hand, I have been jokingly approached by much older men (I am 35) or by men for whom I had zero physical attraction, even worse. Some of them wanted a second date, some didn’t, but I never wanted one, so it all ended there.

Hence my question to you about the chemistry.

Firstly, I am wondering why that man hasn’t approached me again, given the incredible chemistry and sparks just sizzling in the air that we had, especially given that he is free now. I just can’t believe that I had imagined it all! I have always been pretty accurate in “getting the feel” from others. And that incredible feeling of bonding and care paired with a little bit of teasing was still there when we exchanged that couple of lines two and half years later last year.

He repeated several times, when we actively communicated and later, that he was a “mess.” Does he still feel he is a mess and, as such, not ready to approach me? Or anybody else, because I know that he hasn’t met anybody new?

It just makes sense for him to do the same thing you did for “B.” Only I know that real life seldom makes sense or resembles a good film or a book…

And secondly, I am wondering why I haven’t met anybody new with whom I would have mutual attraction. It has been five years after all. I haven’t really thought about that man that much in the past year or two. I did feel attraction for others. I do have a few good male friends around me. However, I don’t think they can ever be more than friends because of that lack of sexual attraction. And it is mutual. None of them has ever professed their love for me. It is more like brothers and sister. There are guys who can be very good friends, but whom one never sees as lovers. I am afraid that is my case. Even though they are super nice, decent lads.

Ultimately, I wonder if it is still a matter of time and numbers?

Any ideas are welcome!

And how do you tag somebody on Tiny Buddha?

@Sammy

I’ll reply to somethings you wrote…

” I do wonder if I feel the need to cling to the love of his family because it vicariously or indirectly allows me to feel loved by him as he is their son.” – yes, that may be the case.

Holidays are hard. I felt that too. Did you spend them with your family and friends? I did, and they were still really hard.

I’ve never had boyfriends introduce me that much into their family. I missed my ex during holidays a lot. And I don’t understand that bonding and feeling of missing his family, but it may be just because of the reason you wrote.

“He did have an awakening of sorts after I contacted him for closure but in the end I knew based on the many years together it was empty promises and too late…. Maybe deep down I’m still holding onto something and hence by taking bold actions I feel it will speed up the process of fully healing rather than dealing with what I’m actually feeling?… I want to fully heal, that will allow me then to give my all to someone new.”

It seemed to me that you actually maybe had a chance to reconnect with your ex after your talk, and you realized it was empty promises, so you move forward. That is something that was always really hard to me, so I know how hard it is. And the way you don’t rush into something you. I admire that.

I know it’s hard, but you seem to really want to make progress, forget him and move on.. That takes a lot of ocurage. and giving yourself time…

However… “It’s what led me to overindulging in alcohol using it as a crutch and that spiral…I’m not too sure if that’s what may be happening again if I’m being honest, food for thought.”

These worried me.. Are you ok? Does living with your family help?

Me… I have ups and downs. Panic attacks stopped, I’m sleeping well, I have apetite, I don’t have anxiety attacs. But I feel hopeless. I think anxiety is here all the time, just not on surface. And a bit of depression.. maybe a good word would be deep sadness.

Holidays were so hard. I live with my family and I have friends, but I guess that’s not the live I wanted for my 30s and I don’t know if it will ever change. Living alone seems even worse.

Sometimes I ask myself what it’s all worth for.. Going to work, earning money, for what? With pandemic, being home all og the time, most of my friends in relationships going forward, so not really thinking anything will change even with pandemic stops, I’m a bit of hopeless. I know everything can change in a day, but my past experiences are bad, so…

My mom is a big support, and she says she has a feeling everything will go better for me this year, and she has a gut, instinct for this things, so that actually gives me hope (maybe it’s funny.. but it helps).

I had some hard times (sometines feeling lonely, also some fights and problems at home in my family – not me directly invovlved), so I contacted him and he also me a few times… I know it’s not maybe smart but I couldn’t help it. I still do miss him. I also know I want family in future, so it would be better for me to find someone who wants that too, as my ex is too young (me 33, him 25) and doesn’t want it yet.

So we were just talking about our lives, what we do… I think we still do care about each other a lot. I try not to except anthing from that, although I admit I kind of have a wish for him to choose me (like Danny did with B), but I also see it’s not realistic. So, I guess I’m not very proud of contact (I haven’t told anybody) but couldn’t help it either.

I have some good times with friends, but then I feel down when I come home again… I also play piano a lot, it’s something I started after break-up and at first used it as something that allows me to think and past time, but I think I also like it. I still feel like I need something outside to change, and every day is really similar, and not really inspiring.

So I admire Sammy when you say you want to heal.. I feel like I’m still in a way missing my ex, and I don’t know how can that past excpet is someone new comes.. I tend to stay in love in a guy until I meet another. I don’t know if’ that’s just me and my problem, and how to change that.

@NBC

To tag someone put @ in front of their username like above.

This thread by @Shelbyville has been a huge part of my decisions so I hope it equally helps you. The posters on this thread are wise, warm, challenging, fair and non judgemental. I’m happy to return the warmth I received.

Don’t let anyone stop you from dreaming. Life can be whatever you will, with a positive vibe.

Yes, your definition of chemistry is in line with mine. Initially I used to think chemistry was purely fireworks and physical but I’ve evolved and matured.

I’m sorry to read of your betrayal those type of relationships can leave deep wounds and unless we face the pain head on and reach peace, the wounds will continue to impact subsequent relationships. I hope you have taken time to work through your emotions surrounding that chapter in your life.

In reference to your ‘B’ it appears you definitely shared a very deep emotional bond. Often this can be the basis of an incredible relationship. However from your dialogue there also seems to have been different mitigating factors to B and I.

You asked for reasons why he hasn’t contacted you or pursued a serious relationship now he’s a free man. Here are some reasons (good and bad)

1) You mentioned he finally got a divorce, which is a big decision. He probably has not healed. Hence the possible reference to being a “mess” – if this is the case he’s done you a favour by not reinserting himself back into your life when he can’t give you an equal footed relationship. Becoming involved with an emotionally unavailable man would only bring you pain and eventually resentment.

2) Although you perceived your bond to be deep and meaningful. He’s a man he may have compartmentalised and boxes you off as his form of escapism or emotional crutch ☹ – if he was not divorced when you met or still hung up on his relationship with his ex then that is also emotional cheating on his part. You’re lucky to have escaped yourself in that case! You deserve better than that type of relationship.

3) If he made mistakes like me but the connection was genuinely real then he maybe hasn’t reached an impasse? He hasn’t done any growth. You shouldn’t wait for him. You should always carry on if your paths converge again then if you feel so strongly still then go for it. B did this she moved on, was happy and striving still.

4) Oh another thing to note about men is we can be physically attracted, have great chemistry but not develop romantic attraction due to an inner conflict. Maybe he is confused like I was so doesn’t even know what he needs or wants. Unless he explores he will waste his own time and continue to do that with anyone he encounters.

If your relationship was like mine and ‘B’ with reflection any guy would have incredible regret. But not many can put their pride/fears aside to act on it.

I can only derive conclusions based on experience and typical male behaviour.

However, so many questions and pain could be resolved by just communicating directly with him. Given it has been 5 years I suggest you do contact him and ask him directly you have nothing to lose, it seems you had no closure to that chapter.

‘B’ was always the type to let bygones be bygones and break any silence because she is just so open, kind and nurturing. So when she didn’t contact me and the months rolled on. Do you know what my ego had me believe?

She was not genuine, she didn’t care etc and I projected my negative feelings onto her. Had I not grown up my ego could have cost me so much. A lot of the times it’s nothing to do with the other person but our own conflicts.

Making amends with ‘B’ brought so much to the surface for both of us and it was cathartic. Even if she had chose to not try again, I know I had done the best thing for both our souls and healing.

Why do I think you haven’t found someone new? It could be a whole range of reasons, the answer lies within you.

• Have you genuinely invested in yourself and moved on?
• You may be comparing the new prospects to him?
• You still hold hope for him?
• You think you want commitment but deep down you do not know what you want or need in a relationship?
• You may have low self esteem and think you don’t deserve better as a result of your other betrayal.

I think the main thing is you don’t have closure. If you did you’d make better choices for yourself and not curve so many people for one person who after 5 years failed to step up.

You need acceptance and peace, with self discovery you may be able to give it to yourself like ‘B’. You just need to clear your thoughts and listen to your soul and do what’s best for you.

Maybe you haven’t found someone new because your wounds from this “emotional affair ” are still there 5 years on alongside the betrayal and you don’t realise you deserve better?

What i did for ‘B ‘ may read as a fairy tale and I don’t want people to think that’s it – happily ever after. I deeply wounded another person and currently things are bliss, but I still have a long way to go. Although some of the bits you’ve read are romantic and our connection really is beautiful there was a lot of pain and sometimes in all honesty I wanted to throw in the towel. Its working at it together and that’s what is key.

I don’t have any close female friends, I’ve always been between billy no mates or a lads lad! I am a very hot blooded male so if I was physically attracted to a woman that I happen to be very close friends with, I’d probably ruin the friendship. Which is why finding my best friend and lover in ‘B’ is so special. On flip side I have double to lose.

You know my brothers partner he once saw her like his bros but one day something changed. So you never know don’t rule out all your male friends. Timing plays a big role.

In the end it may just be a number game if you are well developed, mature and emotionally healthy!

Hope it helps mate!

Rhaenys and Danny:

Thank you for disclosing the secret 😊 I saw people tag each other, but couldn’t figure out how to do it on my own.

We need to be careful though. It appears that the system allows for members to have the same names so the Tim that Rhaenys or Danny tagged is not the Tim who actively participated on Shelbyville’s thread:

https://tinybuddha.com/members/tim/

https://tinybuddha.com/members/tim1/

@NBC I’ve never looked in my emails until today. It appears @Dannydan is my tag. I normally check in when I’m free and reply to any posts addressed to me.

In your situation, objectively I can state there was a glaring red flag there from the beginning (married man – I don’t judge you btw) so no matter how cautious you were planning on being you were setting yourself up for a fall.

Well done for not sleeping with him. He was always going to fail you because there were 3 people in the equation, the times he pulled away was probably when he tried to reconcile or reconnect with his wife. Even if their relationship had ceased to exist I guarantee mentally his ex took up a lot of his headspace and it’s looking likely he used you as an escape hence the 2017 response.

You said you should give it a year but some men can remain emotionally unavailable forever after a broken relationship and never grow.

The key is to never wait for anyone, open your heart and you might find better, move forward and if he re enters willingly then entertain any lingering desire if it’s still there. Think about it if he really misses you and has regrets he will do what I did, overcome the fears and change his way by growing up. Act like a real man and show up. Otherwise he probably sent the message in 2019 out of boredom. Don’t message him, that’s my advice.

You should never settle if you are not having your needs met. When you do settle for less, then needs always have a way of making their way to the surface. So keep searching but don’t make it your whole purpose. There is more to life than being in a relationship.

I wish @Shelbyville could reply to you because you mentioned you feel like her. However it got me thinking at one point I too was like that wanting what I couldn’t have. It posed a challenge. Then I matured and flipped my mentality.

I realised it was the other way around where subconsciously I was pushing away someone that wanted me (B).

When someone says you are enough it’s almost like all these alarms go off saying error error. You project and think there’s something wrong with the other person when really most often it is an inner issue within us.

Sometimes it is the other person not being the right person but that’s why you ask yourself serious questions and discover your exact needs/wants in a serious relationship, to separate genuine doubts from fears.

If this is repeatedly happening and you are only allowing yourself to like people whom you already know subconsciously don’t feel the same about you then it’s highly probable that’s it’s also happening in other issues of your life. It’s all in one’s mentality : you are in that space of insecurity, neediness and unworthiness.You feel like you are not good enough and you are nervous about being rejected and seek validation.

I understand the need for that combination of emotional, romantic, sexual and intellectual connect. I need that too, everyone does. ‘B’ possesses all 4 now but at one point I never felt that romantic attraction.

It took time and compromise, even though emotionally I could share deep things, felt at ease. Intellectually we’re on par. Sexually I couldn’t keep my hands of her, her banter is enough to arouse me etc. The love and being vulnerable took time.

Many people feel very beholden to their libido, thinking that their lust is some sort of chemical fairy godmother that predicts sexual and thus romantic compatibility. Don’t fall into that trap.

After all liking those who don’t like you has never ended well has it? The betrayal of A. The rejection by B. So how mutual was it really?

• This reply was modified 3 years, 9 months ago by Danny.

@NBC

You seem to relate to @Shelbyville experience a lot. I’ve tagged her. You can try too but she did say she’s taking a hiatus as she felt overwhelmed. I know my advice may not be as useful. Here it is though:

In healthy relationships there is clarity and peace of mind.

So although you couldn’t object outright as you were not his girlfriend, as a human the very least you deserved was the respect of not being left in the dark or ghosted without the truth.

Communicating you need space or verbalising what is bothering you is healthy and mature. Unfortunately not many are capable of doing so. It seems discussing feelings is almost perceived as a weakness!

I really do feel you don’t have closure that’s why 5 years on you are still analysing his behaviour.

Have you tried writing out your feelings addressed to him and how it impacted you and then burning it. Put a symbolic end to it. It can be very cathartic and helps to let go of the past. This may give you closure by yourself.

If a REAL MATURE man wants a woman, he will make the effort to overcome his ego, fear and pride and fight for you regardless of the circumstances. If he hasn’t then don’t make excuses for him, he is not worthy of your time and thoughts anymore. Move on.

If you are genuinely happy and content then you’ll believe; when it’s meant to be,it will be. You’ll invest in yourself and other aspects of your life but still be open to the right guy coming along and adding happiness.

So perhaps it’s that you are extreme- all or nothing. You are happy alone but when you are, you shut yourself off. Then you get that natural urge for companionship but go into turbo mode and panic thus your insecurities cause you to act needy. You haven’t actually found a balance.

If you don’t want to go on a date, don’t force it. It’s no surprise you end up reinforcing your belief because you are going in with a closed off mindset.

To make movement in life you have to put things in motion,not be passive and expect it to land in front of you. You have to give things time and be open without comparing or looking backwards.

Also shoot your shot if you like someone. Many men find that an attractive trait – a woman who knows what she wants and is confident to ask. Only an insecure man would be threatened by that.

Don’t be so rigid in your preferences or types but always stick to your values to filter out the players or manipulators which I’ll address in another post below.

• This reply was modified 3 years, 9 months ago by Danny.