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- This topic has 1,633 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 5 years, 5 months ago by Cali Chica.
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May 24, 2019 at 6:55 am #295443AnonymousGuest
Dear Cali Chica:
With your friends, as you pursue friends and interact, do you feel closeness with them, no bitterness?
anita
May 24, 2019 at 7:14 am #295453Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
No, i do not always feel “no bitterness” – so yes I do feel bittnerness at times.
Sometimes I feel a true closeness, but many times I feel a bitterness – more of an annoyance.
It does depend on who it is, when I can intellectually connect with someone on the same level, whether it is based on emotional conversation or otherwise.
But when I feel a disconnect in the sense that the person does not understand a similar: pace of life, stress level, etc – then sometimes I feel annoyed/frustrated and don’t particularly want to converse more.
Its like this: my friend visiting tomorrow is a physician, who had a baby recently, and works hard to balance social life, family life, and his new child. he and his wife are similar to my husband and I in that way/mentality. I feel a TRUE closeness to them, like a form of love.
Versus my friend S, she does not have a busy schedule, often her biggest complaint is that she is bored at work – or that her fiance and her didnt have that many plans over the weekend — entirely opposite of my life. In these scenarios this person is not so relatable and so I sense a bit of annoyance rising…
I know I may not be explaining it to well – but I’ll start from here…
May 24, 2019 at 7:24 am #295461AnonymousGuestDear Cali Chica:
So if a friend is like you, like that bird looking right and left, left and right, you feel closeness, for as long as they are as .. frenzied as you are, but if the other bird seems relaxed, not frenzied, you get annoyed…
-and your husband seems relaxed, so you get annoyed with him?
anita
May 24, 2019 at 7:31 am #295465Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
Good question. The friends I mentioned are not frenzied like me, their personal backgrounds and way of coping/dealing with stress is entirely different from I. Not to say that they are not stressed or frenzied in their OWN way, but they aren’t the bird looking right and left like me.
With friend S, yes she is not frenzied bird at all, entirely opposite, and I do get annoyed with her lack of depth sometimes.
Most importantly – my husband:
I’m not sure… I don’t get annoyed AT my husband Anita as much as it is that I am annoyed in general and I project ONTO him. Its more that I carry over this sentiment – deep bitterness, negativity, anger – onto him, but not because of him.
Lets say someone at work – lets pretend that rude lady – said a comment before I left work Well I often will, without realizing, not let that go – so that frustration and annoyance and anger will then spill over to who: the innocent bystander victim – my dear husband.
May 24, 2019 at 7:37 am #295467AnonymousGuestDear Cali Chica:
What if we do the exercise next. If you are interested and able, have a moment alone, put on an angry expression on your face, an angry-child expression, mouth corners turned down and answer:
little Cali Chica, tell me about being angry, who is angry, what about.. tell me, anything that comes to your mind, anything at all.
anita
May 24, 2019 at 7:45 am #295469Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
Okay here goes, I have my eyes closed to better access and get into the situation
god, this is annoying, some people just act however they want adn theyre fine, and they always go to sleep at night – and me, i get so worried and stressed.
and what kind of world is this, where people treat each other like garbage?!! where I ask a young man kindly to allow an elderly lady to sit in his spot on the subway, advocating the elderly lady who looked at me, and he is angered and inflamed and pretty much curses us off. what kind of world do we live in, so inhumane. i don’t want to live in a world like this.
and gosh, we as doctors, who do our jobs as public servants, are treated with no respect, it isnt about money and power – its that corporations treat us like cogs in a wheel – churn churn churn they say. here these big finance execs are getting company cars and dinner and showered with compliments and bonuses, and as a physician to get a cup of coffee – well even thats a lot to ask for. i know its especially bad in nyc, the environment for physicians, and the culture, cut throat.
but gosh after all this training why should we be treated so poorly – it is unfair.
May 24, 2019 at 8:14 am #295479Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
Not to take away from our exercise, but here is something else that came to mind after I wrote:
I have said many if not all of the above to my husband, most of which also last night – his response.
Sure all of that maybe true, but you can’t hold onto it – you can’t only look at the negative and harp on it. You don’t see the positive – you are bogged down by all that negative and all those grievances. Sometimes you have to accept and move forward, and no life isn’t fair – can’t only look at the negative – you become blinded by it…but there is so much good in your life, and you can’t see it or focus on it.
May 24, 2019 at 8:48 am #295495AnonymousGuestDear Cali Chica:
(not doing the exercise at this point)
You asked me the day before yesterday: “I want to also ask you something- what I asked my mom: Why should we be positive/optimistic?”
I will answer you now: you and I shouldn’t try to be positive/optimistic, we should do our best to be realistic. Aim at Real, not at Positive or Optimistic.
“corporations treat us like cogs in a wheel.. these big finance execs..”- this is reality, better not try to put a positive spin on it. It will be fooling ourselves to see things not as they really are.
“when I ask a young man kindly to allow an elderly lady to sit in his spot on the subway” and he refuses- a subway reality, better not put a positive spin on it (what that would be, I don’t know, but why try).
But it is also reality that your mother told you a lot of things that weren’t true to reality, so when you correct those untruths, it is not putting a positive/optimistic spin on it, it is correcting untruths that you were fed with. For example: “this is annoying, some people just act however they want and they’re fine”- your mother said that. Let’s examine what she said: she said that some people act however they want. Reality- sometimes they do, often they don’t. She herself acted however she wanted just as often as other people, but not always, just like other people.
For example, she said to you whatever she wanted. She wanted an exciting life but stayed home just like so many other people who stay at a job that is boring and grinding. She stayed in a marriage with a man she didn’t find attractive, just like many other women. She had an affair, right there she “acted however she wanted”, didn’t she? And she too went to sleep at night, didn’t she?
Bit by bit chip away at the untruths until you have nothing but the truth and your anger will diminish. There will still be that lack of respect for doctors, still be corruption, injustice, reality, but at least you will unburden yourself from the bs- injustice you heard your mother speak of. You will see how she harmed you with injustice practiced against you more than the corporations, the corrupt executives, more than the rude young man hurt the older woman in the subway by not letting her sit in his spot.
I say, your mother didn’t allow you to sit.. did she, to sit in peace.
anita
May 24, 2019 at 9:10 am #295501Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
She too, did whatever she wanted -and she slept fine at night. Yes Anita, she slept sound like a baby. It was only in her speech and drama that she was distressed, she did not lose sleep over this, or have true empathy for her daughters.
Sometimes I feel I lack empathy for my husband too – as I’ve mentioned before — not really processing what he is saying even though I listen, like yesterday. Feeling detached/disconnected. But I see now this is the product of hardened SCC and as in our exercise, the roughness and hardness that I attained after all the years of being “pounded” by the mother voice. Perhaps deep down under there there is true emotion and empathy, hidden under the fog and stone.
Bit by bit chip away at the untruths until you have nothing but the truth and your anger will diminish.
Yes, and perhaps anger will diminish and true emotions of CC will emerge…
You will see how she harmed you with injustice practiced against you
I thought of this right before I read this post! How interesting, in sync again. I was about to say – perhaps my anger is not directed at all at the subway or corporations but at my mother – perhaps it is all anger at my mother and what she “did” to me – and it is manifesting in every other way…what do you think? and so there like you said the focus in many ways is to “undo her damage” – and seek out the truths in reality, and differentiate them from the lies she told me in that context.
No Anita, she did not allow me to sit at all – ever. Never.
I was never able to, and never have, sat in peace. Ever.
May 24, 2019 at 9:41 am #295511AnonymousGuestDear Cali Chica:
I hear you loud and clear: “she did not allow me to sit at all- ever. Never. I was never able to, and never have, sat in peace. Ever.”
Once you do sit in peace, long enough, it will hurt, I think, because of all the anger about why you weren’t allowed to all those years, to simply sit in peace. Sort of: why now, why not alllll this time!?
The anger, like mine regarding my own mother, is two fold (with many folds in each):
1. The injustice she personally and single handedly practiced against you, that was real and personal.
2. The injustices she complained about, those she said others practiced against her, most of which (with the exception of that which was done to her in her childhood) were untrue.
The result of these two things, you are lacking people with whom you can feel close and stay close, calm, in peace, including with your husband and all by yourself, close and staying close to yourself.
Because you were one of those people she complained about, one of those guilty of her alleged, made up injustices.
I suppose the only people she allowed you at times to be happy with were the friends you played with, so maybe this is why you seek them and not your husband, you keep inviting friends to play with you because this is what you did as a child and throughout. Sometimes she was happy when you did that.
anita
May 24, 2019 at 9:50 am #295519Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
The result of these two things, you are lacking people with whom you can feel close and stay close, calm, in peace, including with your husband and all by yourself, close and staying close to yourself.
So in essence – i have trouble feeling close to anyone, including my OWN self and husband..correct? Please elaborate if you may..this is a key point to me, I feel I am having an aha moment…and this is really making sense
Yes this is why I seek friends and not my husband – or seek anything at all versus SITTING STILL WITH MYSELF AND HIM. Right…?
I would like to continue this train of thought…
May 24, 2019 at 10:08 am #295529AnonymousGuestDear Cali Chica:
Sitting quietly, feeling close to another, quietly close, quiet and close, with yourself as well, that means that you are like the other people your mother complained about, the people who can sleep at night even though they are doing wrong to her–
– maybe you don’t want to be like those people, betraying your mother and going about their lives as if they didn’t.. they should feel guilty and act like it too, guilty. They don’t deserve peace, do they?
anita
May 24, 2019 at 10:28 am #295541Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
yes, and interestingly I quickly feel guilty. In a way perhaps I am too scared/guilty to be happy as I then don’t want tobe like “those” people.
Almost like an over compensation – finding ways to be unhappy to maintain loyalty to my mother…
I think you may agree..thoughts?
May 24, 2019 at 10:35 am #295545AnonymousGuestDear Cali Chica:
This is what I thought a while ago, loyalty to her. Being on her side, not sleeping well at night, worrying, not like those other people. Like S, S is like those other people. S annoys you because she is one of those other people.
I wonder if… you have been raining on your husband’s parade, so to speak, distressing him so that he too will not be like those other people, calm, sitting quietly. Maybe you have seen him quiet and calm, got annoyed and pushed him over to.. your mother’s side.
anita
May 24, 2019 at 10:38 am #295547Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
Yes perhaps. I thought of this once too – and it went something like this.
The angry lion is annoyed when he sees a calm cat, why is this stupid cat so calm!
Alas! I’ll show the cat what the real world is like! I will rile the cat up! See!!
Now the cat is distressed and agitated – he looks at the cat and thinks, yup – told you so – the world isn’t so relaxed after all is it?
—
This occurred to me one day when I thought about both my mother and an old friend – remember the one I no longer talk to, that was all glitter. Well I thought of them in unison because I recall similarly, their eyes lit up when someone who previously was relaxed and calm, comes across distress.
Such as oh look at sweet little S everything is always easy peasy for her, well did you hear now she is having marital problems and losing her hair? gasp!
My mother would say: “see look! now she knows how real life is doesn’t she! reality hits after a while to everyone. No more miss happy go lucky — see told you girls, she’s not so happy after all is she!!!”
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