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- This topic has 1,633 replies, 6 voices, and was last updated 5 years, 5 months ago by Cali Chica.
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May 22, 2019 at 9:58 am #295151AnonymousGuest
Dear Cali Chica:
What if I suggested to you that there is some ignorance on your part regarding S (And that this ignorance on your part is not blissful for you)?
“supportive parents, big family”- big family is a good thing your mother said. What if it isn’t? Supportive parents- how do you know? I bet some people will think the same about your parents, if you didn’t tell them otherwise, if they heard they speak at times, if they know let’s say that your father paid for your medical school, supportive, no?
Maybe her parents were supportive in some ways, but rejecting and cruel in other ways.
“very content and go with the flow.. quite optimistic and positive about dating” – what if her content and go with the flow, as well as her positive talk is born out of what I call The Teflon Factor- allowing the fears and stress slide off her, keeping a smile on her face, not being bothered.. except for nightmares she has at night, nightmares she doesn’t tell you about, because she is so … positive?
What if she dealt with her parents’ rejection by shutting her feelings, just like you, only not in the frenzy way, but instead, in the Teflon way?
“no anxiety along the way.. no pressure( worry that she’s getting old.. nothing”- no way this is the case, I say. If she expressed some anxiety, some worry, I could believe that she may be an emotionally healthy individual, but nothing- not possible. She adjusted to fear and conflict in a different way than you, that is all, the Teflon way.
“In a way, here were many times I envied this ability”- I can see how a Frenzy person envies a Teflon person, it definitely seems more… comfortable to be a Teflon person.
“She has ZERO emotional intelligence, I mean zero. She has no idea what it’s like to live with fear”- she knows fear. We all do. No person is exempt.
Zero emotional intelligence- very little of it, probably. And it is very common.
“We talked about anxiety once and she said: ‘why would people worry so much, it doesn’t change the outcome'”- what she said does not indicate that she doesn’t worry. This is something a lot of people say, why-worry-it-won’t-change-the-outcome. It is a rational thought but in no way is it an indication that a person saying it doesn’t worry.
anita
May 22, 2019 at 10:03 am #295153Cali ChicaParticipantdear Anita,
I entirely agree, and you are right about the Teflon. I think I missed a key point here when explaining S to you.
She does not suffer every day. She is content, and happy. (and i do love S and am glad for that as she should not suffer)
I do.
My life is not inferior – but i do.
Why? because of trauma – and also because of emotional intelligence, because of awareness, because of drive, because of programming, and yes because of the mother voice.
May 22, 2019 at 10:14 am #295159Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
I want to also note, prior to my understanding of the mother voice, I would look at someone like S – and think – wow, that must be nice, how can I be like that.
I notice, and know now – that my neuropathways are my own, as are hers, as are everyones.
Mine are influenced, if not very much dictated by the influence of my mother – the mother voice. As a result there has been a lot of delusion, suffering, fear, and so forth.
I no longer judge the way my brain words versus others – – but of course I do know that having less emotional intelligence is often a blessing in many ways. It does not matter, as I am who I am, I can not change it – and instead, I must re-route myself over time, with healing on this path. the path.
May 22, 2019 at 10:21 am #295163AnonymousGuestDear Cali Chica:
This is quite amazing- you have Teflonned (using it as a verb) my last post to you!
anita
May 22, 2019 at 10:29 am #295165Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
I did not mean to !!
I have had this conversation about S sooooo many times with so many different people throughout life. So perhaps I feel “immune” to it / it isn’t too important to dissect her as her life is entirely different than mine/ as is her brain.
Does that makes sense?
As in, I used to spend endless amount of time worrying and thinking about this sort of thing and how the brains of other people unlike me work, and how they process things. But I have learned now – that it is useless. AS it doesn’t lead to anything productive, help me heal/learn, or do much of anything.
We have to follow our own path, based on our own past, and our own brain chemistry i.e. what works for me, what heals me. what exercises are appropriate for me. no use in trying to get on someone else’s path.
May 22, 2019 at 10:37 am #295167AnonymousGuestDear Cali Chica:
You have a misunderstanding which is obstructing you on your path, a misunderstanding about people. You have this understanding your mother taught you that other people have it easy, unlike her. The American mothers, the big families in Disney World. It is not true, what she told you.
anita
May 22, 2019 at 10:40 am #295169Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
I also wanted to say something – my mother her entire entire life focused on how other people live their lives. Lets say S was her friend, this is how it would go:
Oh look at S, how lucky she is – she doesn’t worry about anything – yet her life worked out so well.
Why can’t we be like that, all we do is worry!
look how much we have, and still we are not content and happy, oh what a tragedy, what a shame.
My sister and I (of course) adopted a lot of this mind set – focus on how others live their life/and as a result put down the way we live our own. Focus on how their brain works, and as a result put down our own.
BUT
A HUGE missing factor is that it was a LIE. S didn’t have the type of life my mother said. She was just happy and content with what she had. And if my mother was to all of a sudden go into S’s life for a day, she wouldnt be happy there either. The issue was within the mindset. Moreover, her concept of “why can’t we be like that” well mother, WE ( my sister and I) can’t because of you. Because of your voice, because of your poisoning, because of the maladaptive things you taught us, and the lies.
So this is my take on people like S, or people at all… I have talked about this sort of thing for years and years with mother and beyond – with my sister – with myself.
I do agree with you that it is a misunderstanding. But I also know that most people don’t have the trauma that I have (or you have) and so their brains arent wired the same, perhaps the struggle is not the same.
It is the difference between a puppy who has been brought home that was kicked around for the first 3 years and now adopted. Versus one who was not. The puppies both see the world differently, and manifest stress differently.
May 22, 2019 at 11:21 am #295177AnonymousGuestDear Cali Chica:
“Oh look at S, how lucky she is- she doesn’t worry about anything.. Why can’t we be like that, all we do is worry! look how much we have, and still we are not content and happy, oh what a tragedy… it was a LIE, S .. was just happy and content with what she had. And if my mother was to all of a sudden go into S’s life for a day, she wouldn’t be happy there either”-
There are a couple of lies:
1) that your mother would have been happy if she didn’t live in America, if she had a job and didn’t stay home, if she had a big family, if she didn’t get into an arranged marriage, if her older daughter didn’t cry since she was a baby and didn’t bother her, if her younger daughter didn’t interrupt her privacy when she had the affair, if her husband was different, and so forth.
2) that other people have it easy.
You get lie #1, you are not getting lie #2.
Lie number 2 leads you to think that “most people don’t have the trauma that I have (or you have) and so their brains aren’t wired the same, perhaps the struggle is not the same”-
– It is true that there are no two people with identical neuropathway mapping, that way, everyone is different. But everyone (humans and other social animals) is basically … the same, all born to love their parents/ caretakers, all born to seek pleasure and avoid pain, all know fear, all have the calling of the wild, a calling that never dies completely until we die.
It doesn’t take much to hurt a child and there is plenty of hurting in almost every home, if not in every single one.
(What is unique in society is the individual taking on the healing/ learning journey day after day, year after year, persevering, not giving up).
anita
May 22, 2019 at 12:45 pm #295203Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
It doesn’t take much to hurt a child and there is plenty of hurting in almost every home, if not in every single one.
wow – you are right…yes you are and I see it all around me, but because of the mother voice – I focus more on what everyone does right/ (and what we do wrong based on mother voice).
Thank you for this reminder.
I will let it savor.
I want to also ask you something – what I asked my mom:
Why should we be positive/optimistic?
May 22, 2019 at 1:01 pm #295209AnonymousGuestDear Cali Chica:
You are welcome.
You asked me: why should we be positive/optimistic?
Can you give me examples of what you mean by being positive/optimistic?
* I will be away from the computer and back Thurs morning. I hope you have a pleasant rest of Wednesday.
anita
May 23, 2019 at 5:58 am #295267Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
Good Morning. I was hoping to start fresh this morning. I know yesterday we did discuss a few things, but I feel today – a fresh mind, and clarity.
I wanted to say to you first and foremost – I appreciate the amount of work and effort you have placed into your healing journey. It is now, that I am on the path, going left and right, up and down – that I can appreciate another/another’s path. Yes it is unlike mine in many ways I am sure, but I can see how much dedication you have had to remove your own “mother voice” or version of it.
I commend you.
May 23, 2019 at 7:06 am #295271AnonymousGuestDear Cali Chica:
Good Morning to you and thank you!
anita
May 24, 2019 at 3:51 am #295429Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
Good morning.
Thank you for the work we have done over the last few weeks. I notice that when I stepped away, yesterday and the day prior – how difficult this work is. It is the real work. Diving in. Deep.
I spoke with my husband yesterday. I have been concerned about his job, the new one he started this past January since moving back to NYC. It has a toxic environment, a lack of respect, and long story short — just negative. I expressed this, and while doing so – got riled up about negativity in general.
It started a conversation – that although not new – I “heard” for the first time. In the past I have not been listening, never listening to my husband. Listening to the mother voice, but not to the real voice/the sound voice outside. Floating through the world – whether in NYC, Africa, anywhere, doing anything – plugged into the mother voice.
He expressed that the most difficult thing for him is my attitude. That work is a toxic environment, and he will get to a solution, but that the most difficult aspect is: how it feels like I can never be happy. My constant negative comments about everything – and never seeing the glass half full, always finding something to pick at or complain about. Its the constant negativity that is far more draining than anything to him.
In addition,
He spoke about how he feels that my behavior is erratic, and it has been for a long time – but for a few months there over the winter he noticed it got better. but recently is back to that rollercoaster/up and down. A week will be calm and good and well balanced, for example a full fridge great with chores etc – normal. The following week can be a mess, empty fridge, all over the place.
He didn’t mean this in the sense of housework or cooking/cleaning – but just the indication that there is an imbalance/inconsistency – and as a result, he never knows what to expect.
He stated he doesn’t know if he is going to come home to angry CC, or overly happy CC. Angry CC or ecstatic CC – living with that unpredictability is exhausting.
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Now Anita,
This is not the first time that we have had this conversation – in fact it might be the 5th at least. But this time I listened. And you know what – it is hard to listen to, not because the truth hurts – but it feels like this: words but difficult to feel their weight. Similar to when I used to tell you it was difficult to feel true emotion: sad/joy whatever good or bad – it felt similar.
For the first time intellectually processing, to a point, the words coming out of his mouth – but still feeling a disconnect/disassociation to the true weight of them. I have a feeling you know what I mean when you read this.
Anyway – I want to work on this. And you know what first comes to mind when I say that out loud to you on paper:
“I want to work on this not because he told me this, but because I should.”
I am so quick to react—that I need to do something for me and not for someone else. So quick to combat.
I guess I’ve been in war for a long time.
Anyway, his words are not an opinion alone – they are true Anita. They are not new news – and they are true. I have been working so hard on this healing journey, that I sometimes don’t realize how I actually come off to the real world – my husband/not strangers, patients, colleagues, friends. No, the real stuff – what I come home and talk about, how negativity and anger spews from me.
May 24, 2019 at 6:22 am #295433AnonymousGuestDear Cali Chica:
A fascinating post. I want to retell it so to process it better: you talked to your husband again about the toxic environment at his workplace and he told you that his experience with you, at home (and elsewhere) is toxic too and that bothers him more than having a toxic workplace.
This is his toxic experience with you: “it feels like I can never be happy. My constant negative comments about everything- and never seeing the glass half full, always finding something to pick at or complain about… behavior is erratic.. that rollercoaster/up and down. A week will be calm .. The following week can be a mess… there is an imbalance/inconsistency-.. he never knows what to expect… he doesn’t know if he is going to come home to an angry CC, or overly happy CC… living with that unpredictability is exhausting… So quick to combat. I guess I’ve been in war for a long time.. negativity and anger spews from me”.
I will share with you about my experience and after I do, I hope you tell me what of my experience applies to you: my mother complained to me a whole lot, massively, daily, on and on about how other people are fortunate and she is not, how other people have easy lives and she has the most difficult, physically difficult work in the world that harms her body, while others are lying down at home reading books, how she is stuck at home while others go out to nightclubs or travel the world, while she is stuck at home all the time, and then, she complained a whole lot how everyone (at one time or another) is hurting her, purposefully, trying to fool her, to take advantage of her, all those people with way more money than she has, money that that (the women) don’t work for being supported by a husband, those women taking my mother’s money, my mother who worked so hard, way harder then the husbands, the men. Everyone was saying things to her with intents to hurt her, to use her, to take from her, lying to her, pretending, dishonestly manipulating her, saying X so to make her do Y.
I was so angry at everyone that I wasn’t able to form friendships with the people I .. hated. How could I befriend bad people? I wanted to hurt them, I didn’t want to love them!
The injustice was always on my mind: all these other people having easy, good lives and they don’t deserve it. My mother, working so hard, so good to everyone (she said and so), who is so honest (she said so) having a most difficult life, the most difficult life in the world. Unfair. I wasn’t going to make friends with those people!
I wasn’t able to feel close for long to anyone, including family members, neighbors, her friends, my peers, everyone. Plus there was that jealousy, seeing the others having such great lives (so she said), that deep bitterness, envy, why them and not my mother?
anita
May 24, 2019 at 6:47 am #295437Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
Thank you for retelling my post, it too, helped me reprocess it – and read it as an outsider. You asked what part of your experience is relevant to me – well all of the sentiment, except the part of making friends – as I do make friends – with almost everyone. But what does that matter! with my team mate/the person you have highlighted to me is my team member and the MOST important – I am the true me, the true emotions – and that is exactly what comes out: deep bitterness.
If not for my mother, for me – oh the injustice of it all! it feels – and feels impossible to look at the good, subconsciously my mind doesnt go there – it is not trained that way. no it is not – I am used to being this way, angry negative, deeply bitter- I am sure.
Just like your experience, why not my mother – why not me/perhaps
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