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May 16, 2019 at 9:06 am #294129Cali ChicaParticipant
Dear Anita,
adolescent CC:
it is always fun to be friends, my mom is such a fun person, and so am I. I have an easy time making friends and we have such a good time together. life is better when shared with others.
May 16, 2019 at 9:08 am #294131AnonymousGuestBut your mother wasn’t your friend when you came home from medical school, crying, was she?
anita
May 16, 2019 at 9:32 am #294133Cali ChicaParticipantdear anita,
I am not sure how to approach this, but I will try my best to approach it as my 20s in medical school, real time when that happened:
my mom gets mad at me because she doesn’t want to see me like that. i dont know whats wrong with me i always get like this. i cant help it. i have problems maybe depression. my mom is so sick of it because she has been through so much in her OWN life, she cant handle doing it again with me.
May 16, 2019 at 9:52 am #294137AnonymousGuestDear Cali Chica:
I need to be away from the computer for some time, at least a couple of hours. Your most recent post is very meaningful, to me. If you want you can write more about it.
“she has been through so much in her OWN life, she can’t handle doing it again with me”-
– what is it?
anita
May 20, 2019 at 9:11 am #294721Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
Long time no talk. I was busy over this weekend with some company, but I kept in mind our work, it was nice to take this time to let it sink in and also observe some of the barriers to my possible healing/growth.
I noticed first of all that I am a very busy person, not in the traditional sense that I have a busy job, but my husband and I both have very active social life separately and now together, and we are also very involved with our friends and family to a great degree. I have touched on this before but I noticed that it will require active effort, especially during the summer months in which we are inundated with family events, weddings, etc., for me to carve out time with him, quality time just us, or quality time not doing too much. It is quite easy especially living in a city like New York city to constantly have company and people around, but that downtime just us is quite important.
anyway,
I do agree that this last post was important, because we left off there – it gave me some food for thought as well.
you asked what is IT?
It could be so many things. But overall, I have thought that – IT means suffering.
See, a lot of the stuff that my mother would say would not be a perfect translation into English. But I will try my best. The overall theme was that my mother suffered a terrible life, moving to the United States and suffering one wrong doing after another. As a result she now deserves to relax and enjoy her life. She deserves a life without suffering now. If a family member such as her daughter brings upon suffering to her – by means of: Her own troubles, whether that be the troubles of a child, or otherwise. This is now added suffering to a woman who does not deserve suffering. She does not want to be involved in the ups and downs of other people because she has had to deal with her own, why should she. How dare anyone bring her down to levels in which she must suffer again. Don’t they realize what she went through, don’t they realize that she needs a much needed respite?
So in the context of that medical school conversation that we always go back to you, on the phone her conversation would go something like, don’t bother me with this stuff anymore, I’ve been dealing with issues from you with my whole life.
If you asked me what this meant a month ago it would be different than what I think now. So I am first going to explain to you what I felt at baseline. And then go on to explain my interpretation. You of course can add anything you want there.
So at face value at that age, without the understanding I have now, I took this to mean the following: my mother is tired and burnt out. She has had a lifetime of suffering behind her, the last thing she needs is a burden some daughter, a daughter who can’t figure out her own emotions. This is not her burden. By being emotionally volatile or unstable at this moment I am burdening her up. How could someone like her take more anguish? Gosh why do I feel this way? I wish I could better deal with this. I went to my parents because I didn’t know what else to do but it just caused them more harm.
And now:
Sure, at that age I did not have appropriate coping mechanisms. I was emotionally volatile. Perhaps emotionally up-and-down. But why? Not because of my own wrongdoing and faults, I was not raised in a very emotionally healthy environment, much of my trauma from my childhood was being manifested with my dating patterns, self sabotage ups and downs, self-doubt, not understanding what I needed and what was healthy for myself, trying to appease my mother but not really understanding what would make me happy. Zero realization of this. So here I am burnt out and strong out, and acting out in a way, very well learned from my mother. Unable to cope with my emotions as an adult, let me project them out to someone else. in a way- I did this, I didn’t project them out onto my mother in the same way, but I had a cry for help. Help me help me I am an adult I am sinking but I don’t know what to do help bring me up to shore. Sound familiar? Of course. Of course a child no matter what age learns patterns from their mother, especially a mother as overbearing, intrusive, and over arching as mine. The mother voice. The mother OMNIPRESENCE. So based on our exercise I see that I as a struggling young adult here unable to understand my emotions well, go to an adult mentor, and mother for some support. However this mentor supporting figure is way beyond her self. Almost like an alcoholic son going to alcoholic dad for help, who has not yet developed coping mechanisms. But yet the dad yells at the younger son and says what’s wrong with you why do you keep drinking so much. Yet the father has not developed any way to stop drinking, and continues to become worse and worse in his own patterns, no awareness, no coping, and maybe develop self hatred.
It is easy to project out- it is easy to say why do you act like this where did you learn that from. It is easy to say I can’t deal with your problems I’ve had enough of my own.
Its not what an appropriate parent does. In fact, let’s say my mom did raise me appropriately, I probably wouldn’t have been there sitting there at 25 unable to climb out of my emotions. My emotional instability is stemmed from a lot of trauma of course. But regardless, IT is her inability to deal with issues/suffering. As if the World has given her enough burden, she does not need anymore.
May 20, 2019 at 10:24 am #294741AnonymousGuestDear Cali Chica:
Welcome back. I like your analogy of the alcoholic son and father, good understanding there.
Last I asked you: what is “it” in your sentence, “she has been through so much in her OWN life, she can’t handle doing it again with me”.
Your answer: “IT means suffering… my mother suffered a terrible life… suffering one wrong doing after another. As a result she now deserves to relax and enjoy her life. She deserves a life without suffering now… her daughter… added suffering to a woman who does not deserve suffering… How dare anyone bring her down to levels in which she must suffer again… This is not her burden”-
-My input and answer to the question I asked you: if she felt empathy for you, she would feel hurt, concern and sadness for you, that is what empathy is about. She had enough of those feelings, so she has none for you.
It is empathy (“she can’t handle doing it again with me”).
Because she did not feel empathy for you, you were an it for her. You were a thing, not a human being. A human being is an emotional being and to her you were just a being, a thing that is there.
Here is the title of your thread, always there on top of the box in which I type, “Self Trust”- how does an emotional being trust herself when treated like a thing, a non-emotional being for so long?
A thing is to reintroduces herself to emotions as our friends that carry valuable messages for our thinking brain to consider. Emotions are not a burden to suffer and push away best we can, distract from any way, any time by senseless activity and frenzy. We need our emotions to live a healthy and successful life. Wisdom cannot possibly be logic alone, it has to include befriending and understanding our emotions.
For your mother, her emotions were the enemy and so were yours, her enemy. Befriend yours.
anita
May 20, 2019 at 11:04 am #294755Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
it – is empathy. Absolutely. How aptly put. We have been speaking so much about tenderness and as a result we have been speaking about empathy. But in a way, I overlooked this. Overlooked the fact that my mother did not have empathy for me. She as a human, or more – a mother would/should (hate to use should but here in this case it makes sense) she would have empathy. Empathy as in love, concern, softness, tenderness.
But she was saturated – empty of this empathy – empty of it for me. So as a result I was an IT. I burdensome it.
And yes, more so, of course I did not learn to befriend these emotions. I felt very much that – ah look at these emotions look how burdensome they are to my mother and me. Look how foolish and messed up I am. Look at how terrible. Oh woe is me the tragedy.
This did not lead to coping and ways to manage – but instead self loathing and more running frenzy and avoidance of true emotion. Away from tenderness. Towards hardness and frenzy.
So now with this Understanding. It does require my beginning of befriending.
And with our conversation, and exercises and whatever else we do – I see this progress and unraveling is not too far away – and it is possible.
May 20, 2019 at 11:27 am #294773AnonymousGuestDear Cali Chica:
Your emotions were a burden to “the mother OMNIPRESENCE” and so, they were a burden to you, being in one mental unit with her. She rejected your emotions and you did the same, she and you were the same, in the beginning.
Time to further separate from her, more. Continue to remove that omnipresence. Relax into it best you can, it speeds up the process when you relax again and again, quieting the agitation repeatedly, before it builds up to the frenzy.
anita
May 20, 2019 at 12:49 pm #294803Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
I smiled when I read:
speeds up the process when you relax again and again
how counterintuitive for SCC. How opposite of how she has been living her life. But how so very true.
May 20, 2019 at 12:58 pm #294807Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
I hope you had a pleasant day I assume you may be leaving the computer now for a few hours or al until tomorrow morning. I am going to go to a yoga class, after which I will take a nice shower and return to what we spoke about today. I think it will involve some more reading and sinking in. I will write my thoughts when I am more relaxed into it —later this evening. I look forward to speaking with you tomorrow morning then.
May 20, 2019 at 12:59 pm #294809AnonymousGuestDear Cali Chica:
It is not natural to do what is counterintuitive, only humans can aim at something that is not done anywhere in nature, by any other animal. To do what is not natural is very difficult to do, but possible for us. It gets easier… intuitive over time, and the more you relax into it, the faster it will become intuitive.
anita
May 21, 2019 at 5:00 am #294887Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
the more you relax into it, the faster it will become intuitive.
The more I relax, the more it can sink in. I will say I did a good first step yesterday evening – after I spoke to you. I went to yoga, took a nice shower, and took my time – for once – to make a simple dinner. I was mindful when i cut the vegetables, and I tried to do a good balance of working quickly but still staying present – it was a first step.
We then went for a nice walk in the park, now that it is summer – finally – the sun sets late, and it is such a pleasant atmosphere. I noticed as I walked I thought about what we spoke about. I had space. I had space for our lessons to sink in because I was relaxed.
If the pot is full and boiling over, there is no space for anything else to be added. you keep trying to throw things in , vegetables, spices, more water – but it just boils over – creating messes and burns! burns! gosh why am I getting burned!
and then you take time, let some water evaporate, cool down perhaps. There’s space. You can add – you can take a look at what is needed, do I need more water? spice? vegetables? What do I need?
What is missing? What do I need? There is space, boiling water is not oozing over about to burn..
May 21, 2019 at 6:54 am #294901AnonymousGuestDear Cali Chica:
I think it is pretty cool that our conversations are carried into a NYC walk in the park. It is a virtual me there in the park walking on the other side of the country, so far away.
You are a vegetarian but your husband is not, do you cook meat at home or have meat at home, for him?
anita
May 21, 2019 at 7:01 am #294903Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
it is pretty cool isn’t it. Virtual friend and messages from across the country. There is some benefit to the technology we have!
i do not cook meat for him or have it. However if we are ordering food/take out or delivery he will order it. Or when we dine out.
I thought on the walk yesterday how difficult it feels sometimes just to live a normal day. Not the kind of get out of bed difficult. But more the balance – good habits. Social life. Healing. Healing is not it’s own category but the space for it. The space to relax and sink in. That is the priority.
May 21, 2019 at 7:12 am #294907Cali ChicaParticipantDear Anita,
i also thought about how it is work to relax. Actively carving out and maintaining it – not forcing/ but engaging in it – creating the environment and reminding myself that it is important. Not fleeing or escaping into frenzy. Befriending the emotions.
I thought about how in medical school and that time – I would instantly flee. But I also felt a lot of discomfort. I didn’t understand.
Sometimes it feels like the mind chatter is important and it tries to tell us something. But when you listen you realize it is circuitous and not productive. Learning how to halt it but also get to the root of it. I am in the process of understanding how much of this is the bird with the back and forth frenzy. And how much is inner fears and anxiety. Perhaps it’s all the same.
Recently my mind chatter and lack of contentment is entirely centered on work. The concept that I have the talent and drive to start something on my own and that I should. It would be better than being an employee (some of which you discussed with your husband) and I would hen ownership of my own self. With the talent, insight, and drive to help people I have – and experience /such as what is seen in our posts as well – it is truly what I want and need to do.
Just feeling stuck on taking that first step.
Then I also feel quite tired from my regular life and balancing it all – so I push it to the side. In a way I often feel right now may be I am exhausted from everything that is going on so I shouldn’t push myself too much. But the more I stay away from my “drive to build and create” to explore and develop my own self – the more I will feel this way.
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