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  • January 8, 2019 at 10:34 am #273139
    Cali Chica
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    Glitter is right! always a good time, great time. fun groups she is in, and activities.

    The thing is Anita – I thought I could do this.  But I can’t.  I find myself suffering even if I simply reply to a text.  It may even sound dramatic to an outsider.

    What I am telling myself (you) is that her very presence irks me now, presence as in, her  fake ways of acting like she isn’t the selfish person she is.

    Based on what I was reading yesterday – I think of it like this—

    if you are healing from the cancer that is a toxic parent, best not to come across irritants while your immune system is low.  take time to heal and get your immune system back on track.

    perhaps I simply can not handle anyone with the slightest bit of toxicity, unpredictability, selfishness – perhaps I feel so so triggered these days, my threshold is non-existent.

    perhaps there’s no space for glitter without substance – perhaps only room for the path and substance…

    what do you think?

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 10 months ago by Cali Chica.
    January 8, 2019 at 10:40 am #273145
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Cali Chica:

    I think I understand better. You can’t stand dishonesty anymore, pretense. The path is about honesty and authenticity, talking the walk and walking the talk. No glitter, all substance.

    Yes, it makes sense. So end contact with her, no more texts,  nothing. That fits with you slowing down overall in the social context.

    anita

    January 8, 2019 at 10:53 am #273151
    Cali Chica
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    yes.

     You can’t stand dishonesty anymore

    yes, that is it.  i do judge myself slightly for it – but in the same breath feel strongly that this is the case.

    instead I should accept that this path IS about honesty – and perhaps my guidelines are stricter than the average joe, but so is my path…

    January 8, 2019 at 11:01 am #273155
    Cali Chica
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    on further thought – there’s a lot I can’t stand anymore – I have a low tolerance.

    perhaps that makes me easily triggered.  perhaps because I have dealt with so much, and just in the beginning of my marriage.

    perhaps I shouldn’t judge myself – and do only what serves me.

    I do wonder in a way why I can NOT do say, what you said, go with the glitter when I feel like it.  My husband mentioned something like this – don’t expect much from her, and know where she stands, but you can spend time with her if it works out for you, and you’re up for it.

    makes sense, what he said, and you said.  and it feels that I almost don’t have the ability to have this regulation.   my way does seem quite: all or nothing…

    January 8, 2019 at 11:12 am #273161
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Cali Chica:

    You decide whether to have contact with her, and reads like you don’t want to have contact with her, so don’t. You are not wrong and you don’t owe her anything except to do her no harm, that  is to not  hit her or call her names. You don’t owe her anything other than that, nor do you owe your husband to have contact with her  or to be nice to her.

    anita

    January 8, 2019 at 11:18 am #273171
    Cali Chica
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    My awareness about this issue is coming in small segments, the more I write to you, read your responses – etc – so sorry if it is fragmented.

    I see the deeper issue, it is about her, but no really about her only.  It’s about the concept.  People treat you however they want, they have no shame often (some people).

    Yet i have guilt in so many sectors of my life.  My upbringing has filled me with guilt and anxiety.  So that even in situations like this, guilt is predominant – putting my foot down and creating a boundary is difficult with these types yes – for many.

    But to be so bogged down by it, like I am – shows me the deeper issue of “owing people something” that you touched upon.

    no, I do not owe her anything. In fact we, as free agents, don’t owe many people anything.  and the moment we feel it is no longer a win-win, we have the RIGHT to choose otherwise.

    yet that right feels foreign to me, the ability to make that choice – without guilt.

    January 9, 2019 at 7:51 am #273383
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Cali Chica:

    It happened before that you post but it doesn’t reflect under the list of Topics, so I don’t know that you posted. Then I click on your thread a day after and find out that you did  post. I didn’t tell you but I injured my leg badly Friday afternoon and still cannot walk, but very little and carefully in the house, having my  foot up on ice as I type to you.  This  means I didn’t  take  my daily walks and have been on the computer longer each day that I would like. I think that I literally dropped a tree on my  foot Friday, being mindless that moment, not mindful as I was working on the property.

    Back to you, to this very topic. You mentioned people without shame, the word shame caught my  eye: “when it’s not convenient to her, she is nowhere to be found, excuses, and always putting it on you,  quick to cancel, and shameless. with an amazing manipulative ability to never have any accountability. and  absolutely no shame, when she  bounces back being ON again… She lives in NYC now, and  has  been contacting me, but only to spend time where and  how is convenient to  her. shameless  in presenting it, and with an  easy going tone… People treat you however they want, they have no shame often”-

    Remember when you were  in South Africa and you felt the need to message a woman regarding a wedding thing that was going on in NY, while  you were on vacation? And of course your drive to attend to others, to your sister, to anyone, ignoring yourself and your husband… I think you are ashamed not to,  meaning shame drives you, feeling like a bad person if you don’t attend to others, if you don’t put yourself (and your husband) aside and attend to others.

    So when you see N withdrawing when she feels like it, doing what you would be too ashamed to do, you resent her for not feeling ashamed like you. I think  you want  to be a bit like her, to withdraw and  feel  comfortable to not attend to others.

    I don’t think you want to be flaky, but you envy the part  of her that feels comfortable, not apologetic and not conflicted about attending to herself when she  feels like it, anytime she feels like it.

    anita

    January 9, 2019 at 7:57 am #273385
    Cali Chica
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    Oh my! I am so sorry to hear about your leg.  I hope you take time to rest and digest.  I also hope the weather is not too cold out where you are, so that you can heal in time, and sit outdoors and get some fresh air.  You may have been “mindless” while doing housework – but these things happen.   I am glad you did not have a severe injury, and now you are aware next time you work outdoors.

    Despite this, thank you for taking the time to reply to me as always.

    and what you wrote below:

     think you are ashamed not to,  meaning shame drives you, feeling like a bad person if you don’t attend to others, if you don’t put yourself (and your husband) aside and attend to others.

    So when you see N withdrawing when she feels like it, doing what you would be too ashamed to do, you resent her for not feeling ashamed like you. I think  you want  to be a bit like her, to withdraw and  feel  comfortable to not attend to others.

    I don’t think you want to be flaky, but you envy the part  of her that feels comfortable, not apologetic and not conflicted about attending to herself when she  feels like it, anytime she feels like it

    YES! absolutely I am ASHAMED  not to attend, yet she can do it without worry.  I envy that I do.  I resent that.  Like you said not that I want to be HER, but I want to relinquish my guilt and shame.  but so much: envy the part  of her that feels comfortable, not apologetic and not conflicted about attending to herself when she  feels like it, anytime she feels like it

    and this is it, it goes beyond her, but the concept of her, and such people, or such a way of living.

    so then what?

    January 9, 2019 at 8:10 am #273389
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Cali Chica:

    What seems like a simple answer would be: then you, Cali Chica, act differently, do not attend to others when you are on a vacation or otherwise, put yourself first. Problem is this, as I see it: all your life you tried and tried to get rid of that shame, that is to be a good person by attending to others and now the answer is that all that effort was for nothing? All in vain? All a waste? Infuriating!

    It takes grieving, really, accepting with sadness that you did waste so much of your time  and energy for nothing, no benefit, not at all. It didn’t do you any good. It is overwhelming to accept such a thing, the  pointlessness of so much time and effort being wasted, of so much life that was not  lived, and for no purpose, no benefit. A waste.

    anita

    January 9, 2019 at 8:19 am #273391
    Cali Chica
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    It is true, all in vain, but moreover – even before that aspect of grieving it – I am here. stuck.

    i do not know how to “not attend” to others and prioritize my husband and I first – CONSISTENTLY with it feeling natural, guilt-free and shame-free.

    perhaps that is my greatest distress.  the ability for this to be “my way” not an ongoing struggle.

    like someone who LOVES sweets and consistently attempts a dessert-free diet.  constant painstaking battle..

    i know the root, the deep feeling of shame and guilt if I don’t do such.  i know the source, the mother voice from a young age.  I also know that my mother made it a huge deal to throw yourself and family away for focus on others, and commended my ability to have so many friends and an active social life.  i know this furthermore ingrained the superhuman cali chica role, the social butterfly, not necessarily pushover – but the great balancer.

    but it is not balancing, when it is pushing myself, and now husband aside, for others – ESPECIALLY others who are not worthly of such attention…

    • This reply was modified 5 years, 10 months ago by Cali Chica.
    January 9, 2019 at 8:25 am #273397
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Cali  Chica:

    It is an ongoing battle until you attend to the root cause, until you attend to what fuels this urge to attend to others. There is a fire inside of you that is fueling this behavior. So when you act differently, intentionally not attending to others, that fire is still burning and burning.

    The solution is to extinguish that fire. So it stops burning. So that the struggle stops.

    I am trying to think of the origin of that fire in you. The child you were, there is that mother person, she points to “over there” as where you are supposed to focus  on. If you do focus over there, then you are a good girl.. take it from here, will you?

    anita

    January 9, 2019 at 8:52 am #273409
    Cali Chica
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    here’s a start.

    If I focus over there, I am a good girl.  See Cali Chica, look how much fun you are having with N, you are so lucky to have a friend like her.  You should try to hang out with her more. Oh look at you, you’re so lucky, you always have good friends.  That is so important.  In life having friends is important, because if you don’t you will be alone.

    okay – mental note – friends above all.  friends friends friends. social social social. got it…mental note. check.

     

    so…do you see what’s missing (anything about my own self, or one’s own self, boundaries, needs, or own priorities)

     

    January 9, 2019 at 9:03 am #273419
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Cali Chica:

    I will take some time to review your thread so to get a feel for this shame. Post again if you have more thoughts. I will post again when I do.

    anita

    January 9, 2019 at 10:34 am #273433
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Cali Chica:

    My  first post, this one, will include a quote from a Nov 2016 thread of yours. The second post will have my  input based on it:

    “my mom has had a tough life… Treated really poorly by her siblings… they  isolated her and  made it a point to treat her quite poorly for years into my childhood. Factors related to this are just plain bad people exist in the world…

    In addition, there was a lot of mistreatment from my father’s parents…

    my  mother felt for many years that she  moved  to America, to a country of loneliness where even her own siblings (all she had) shunned, ridiculed, and  harassed her..

    all the negative people and things happening to her at once scarred her for life…

    I always recall feeling, wow how sad my mom’s life was, how sad people can be, why did people do this to her?

    ‘we  have  had bad luck, the world is against us’ feeling that has perpetuated…

    less than 24 hours after my surprise proposal and amazing party, she calls me frantically a nd  says ‘his side is going to try to do things their way, we  need to control them…

    if we try to reason with her, ‘we are against her’… she feels I am ‘brainwashed’ by my fiancé’s parents bc they are quiet and passive,  and so I  side with them… she feels quite alone in the world…

    the emphasis was always on the outside.. I recall a picture from Disneyworld I looked at a while  ago,  smiling me at 5, and  parents… I remember my  mom saying ‘look at everyone else  they are here with a big family,  wouldn’t it be nice if we were too’… it  made sense to me, my mom had been  isolated and mistreated and  yearned for ‘company’ as she called  it.. her whole life.. it is like sitting at a dinner table of 4 and  focusing on the 6 that didn’t make it”.

    January 9, 2019 at 10:54 am #273439
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear  Cali Chica, second post:

    For a young child, her mother is a good person, more accurately, her mother is God that is all  Good. The empathy of the young child is automatically for her mother. Your mother presented Good and Bad to you. You were determined, from a very early age, naturally, to be Good. According to what your mother presented you as good,  of course.

    Bad  people are those who “Treated her poorly… isolated  her… shunned, ridiculed and harassed her… try to do things their way… against her”.

    Your empathy was with your good mother: “I always recall feeling, wow how sad my mom’s life was, how sad people can be, why did people do this to her?”

    To be good, your aim, you had to reach out to the bad people out there so to prevent them from hurting your mother more than she was already hurting, reach out to them not with the desire to befriend them for friendship sake, but so  to control their badness from hurting your mother.

    “his side is going to try to do things their way, we need to control them“.

    You were angry at N, calling her shameless because you are angry at  those bad people who mistreated your mother, and N is one of those people. You have reached out to  people and then you wait and check: what are they doing now? Are they here with me or did they disappear, no longer responding?

    You are trying to check  on the enemy, which is all the people  hurting your mother, which is everyone at one point or another.

    Everyone is the Enemy, bad people.

    Good Cali Chica is keeping an eye on the enemy, she is befriending them so to keep an eye on them, so they don’t hurt mother.

    anita

     

     

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