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  • January 19, 2018 at 8:12 am #187575
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Cali Chica:

    It is a delight experience for me to read such a detailed description of a successful mindful experience that you had. Your description is not jumbled at all but pretty organized. Excellent mindfulness work.

    This making friends and keeping friends job is indeed a habit, like you pointed out. Mindfulness is about noticing and then interrupting the habit, making your acts intentional, following thinking and choosing, instead of automatic, or compulsive.

    And you cannot interrupt a habit unless you notice that you are engaged in a habit.

    Interrupt the habit further by catching yourself before you invite Juliana next time and resist the compulsion. Don’t invite her. You will probably feel distressed about not inviting her, being with your dog alone, but endure that distress, resist the temptation to reduce your distress by giving in to the compulsion.

    You noticed other things as well, excellent. You noticed more about your motivation. Funny thing is, you never met your mother when she was naïve, a new immigrant, have you? You met Juliana and you imagine your mother was like her. Maybe your mother was not like Juliana at all.

    We believe what our mothers say but what our mothers share about their experience is not necessarily true.

    Back to the habit: it is impossible to “turn this part of (you) off”, that is, to turn the habit off. You keep interrupting it, and over time of persistence and lots of patience, it does get interrupted and the compulsion weakens and weakens.

    anita

    January 19, 2018 at 9:16 am #187589
    Cali Chica
    Participant

    “but endure that distress, resist the temptation to reduce your distress by giving in to the compulsion.”

    I see this is key. In fact looking back I avoided the “distress”. I recall this Pattern or habit in many parts of my life.
    – coming home and feeling overwhelmed from the day and instantly going to the fridge to stress eat, this was common in medical school for me
    -Coming home from a long day and instantly texting someone or calling someone, not necessarily to vent about my day or anything, but almost like a distraction from the stress of my inner self. Of course subconscious

    – The example that I mentioned about Juliana. This wasn’t on a particularly stressful day or anything, the point of the matter is that it doesn’t matter, it was that it wasn’t really my intention to be social for someone for even 15 minutes. So I was acting out of habit. My action was not intentional but instead it was a habit or compulsion that I tended to – likely to alleviate some inner distress.

    To shift gears I read what you wrote on my sisters thread. Thank you so much for sharing personal things about yourself, I really enjoyed reading about your journey and where you are in life now. I resonate with your words and saying that it was delightful for me to read this.It makes the whole process of healing feel even more real to me when someone like yourself can explain in detail some of your life story.

    Great point at the end of the post about how my mom cried and it wasn’t necessarily because she was so touched by the intimacy of a relationship. You ask what it is then?
    It is: telling yourself something so you can feel “content”. Not unlike above, going through with something -to relieve distress -because it’s habitual to feel that this is what is right/happy. (Such as. Inviting a friend on a walk means happy and loved. Going on it alone means lonely and sad)

    Such as:
    Oh my daughter came to visit me this weekend. I am loved. She wanted to spend time with me. I was needed. I am “happy”

    I have so many plans to choose from this weekend. I am popular. I am busy. I am “happy”

    I was so busy this year with wedding planning the year flew by. I am occupied. I am not lonely. I am “happy”.

    It is convincing yourself. It is attaching a feeling of happiness or contentment to a person or activity to convince yourself that this equals: happy, loved, full, and satisfied.

    January 19, 2018 at 10:15 am #187597
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Cali Chica:

    More excellent insight on your part in the first two paragraphs of your recent post.

    I am glad you liked my sharing on the other thread and you are welcome.

    Regarding why your mother cried, what triggers her emotions about a visit with her daughter: “I am occupied. I am not lonely.”- my goodness, this means that it doesn’t matter who the person is that she is spending time with, as long as it is somebody, isn’t it?

    It wouldn’t sound good to others if her daughters didn’t spend time with her, but her personal experience with either one of her daughters is not more than her experience with a stranger, is my thinking. If you recall how your mother behaves with strangers, do you think she is as happy, content and satisfied?

    anita

    January 19, 2018 at 10:16 am #187599
    Anonymous
    Guest

    * didn’t reflect under Topics…

    January 19, 2018 at 12:19 pm #187631
    cali sister
    Participant

    anita,

    to respond to “It wouldn’t sound good to others if her daughters didn’t spend time with her, but her personal experience with either one of her daughters is not more than her experience with a stranger, is my thinking. If you recall how your mother behaves with strangers, do you think she is as happy, content and satisfied?”

    – There have been countless times where my mother and father are taking a drive somewhere (this is when i lived at home) – and I always felt oh so lonely and never had great friendships. My father was always delighted for me to join them. always asked me to come. I have severe ptsd from moments when my mother would literally, LITERALLY, tell me not to come. she would uninvite me. she would say “no you don’t come. you just stay home” Do you know how unwanted i felt? This goes along with the concept of just PEOPLE. does not matter who it is. daughter or strangers. it’s just that there are people. i have DISTINCT memories of when people my mother basically hated would come over. when they would leave, she would cry the same way. she just needs to feel occupied. i am this way too, because of her. i find myself in moments where i am not occupied, just crying. when she is with others, i do not think she is happy, content, or satisfied. she is thinking of her next moments. the next day. “okay saturday is done and set up. now what am i doing tomorrow?” for my mother, everything is next next next. there is no such thing as being in the moment.

     

    January 20, 2018 at 3:23 am #187711
    Anonymous
    Guest

    * Dear calisister:

    Why did your mother uninvited you for outings countless of times, told you to stay home? What was her motivation?

    anita

     

    January 20, 2018 at 6:36 am #187729
    cali sister
    Participant

    Maybe because she found me as a nuisance ? And she didn’t NEED me. She had my dad. If he was not home, or going on the outing, I would of course be invited.

    I don’t know her motivation. Maybe to bully me. I always sensed a slight hatred for me in her. She doesn’t have that with my sister. With me, it’s like she’s angry I’m alive. There’s many examples I have of this.

    January 20, 2018 at 7:01 am #187733
    Anonymous
    Guest

    * Dear calisister:

    She used people (your father, your sister, you, anyone) for social outings, just like she suggested you use friends to go shopping with.

    The punch in the face I mentioned in your thread is her communication: I am angry you are alive!

    The black eye, the injury, is your conclusion that there is something wrong with you.

    Any child receiving this communication from her mother, will believe there is something wrong with her.

    There is nothing wrong with you, calisister. Never has been anything wrong with you.

    anita

    January 21, 2018 at 5:03 am #187815
    Cali Chica
    Participant

    Hello,

     

    Along with that, there was a time when my mom was having company that my mother said to my sister: we have people coming over so go somewhere, it will look bad if they come over and you’re just home. (Like oh she is just home no plans no friends)

    i remember my sister calls me while driving and pretty much trying to kill time – and I was so saddened.  At this time about 2 years ago I will say I didn’t know what I knew now  my thought process was dual.  1) how terrible for my mother to do this to my sister – so what if she’s home! 2) my poor sister doesn’t have an alternate plan so she’s out there literally trying to kill time —

    now my thought would be more like this: 1) how dare a mother treat her daughter like that – she finally has someone “over” and finally feels like she has friend so she kicks her daughter to make herself look “good or cool”  absolute atrocious abuse.

    i see a lot more of her actions to my sister as this – and I have realized over the last week that yes she may have more blatantly said these things to my sister as she has this different attitude towards her  – that doesn’t mean I haven’t endured incredible abuse from her too. Sometimes I think a lot of it has pertained to recent times but looking back I see patterns so young. I just didn’t know it. Here are some memories:

    1- very strange but if we were getting our bathing suits on when we were much younger say I was 10  my mom would jokingly ALWAYS bring up how she never had the belly or stretch marks before I was born  – and she was so skinny – how she misses that body. I recall feeling kind of bad that this “happened to her”

    2- I was a very naughty child and it’s been a running joke as a child that I was a terror. This is often joked around and is not uncommon in many families. Well it was always made apparent to me by my mother that I always cried when I was a young baby and toddler. Inconsolable and entirely attached to her.  She couldn’t go anywhere or do anything without me crying.

    I recall a time in medical school say I was 22 – and I had the first of what I now know is an “emotional breakdown” feeling lost overwhelmed, scattered, hopeless, sad. At this time I had NO idea that my parents were what we know now. I just thought they had a lot of sad things happen to them by many people and as a result endured a lot of pain. (my poor parents so many people have done them wrong and made them suffer)

    Anyway at 22 I recall feeling that “breakdown” and I usually went to my friends for the typical ups and downs – but I remember it was so bad I instantly called my parents.

    I recall talking to both parents and they said things like: we don’t know what to tell you, ever since you were young you’ve always had a problem. You came out of the womb crying and you continue still. We just don’t know what to do with you. This is too much you’re an adult now.

    I had totally forgot this until 2 weeks ago, something on TV reminded me and I told my husband and he was horrified. He said I know a lot of what your parents did- but to kick you when you’re down like that. Wow.

    I thought to myself things like this were the norm – wow.

    3) another thing is related to let’s say dating/marriage. For me (because my mom considers me this princess golden child) she always had an expectation that I would marry the “best” guy. So in many ways those qualities van be tangible such as career, education, etc.

    This is not uncommon in My culture and that’s fine. On the other hand she has told my sister and I from a very young age how unhappy she is with my father (a whole other story to post about) and as a result said and imprinted so many things in our brains: make sure you find someone you’re attracted to, make sure you find someone that’s a fun person, etc.

    Yes it seemed like “advice” back then. But if was sick. Because as a person who takes what my mom said very seriously (as you pointed out to me that I take the job very seriously) I took this to heart.

    I would go for someone that was educated and food on paper, but say didnt make me laugh I would have an immediate feeling of anxiety about the concept. And so much pressure on myself. Such as oh how will I ever find “both”

    My mom always had a comment. If someone was marrying someone that they got along with but wasn’t necessarily great on paper she would say oh look she got stuck with that kind of guy bc she had no options . But then on the other side still go on and on about how she’s such a fun and adventurous person and my father isn’t and so that’s been such a let down in her life. A daughter like me as you know- took this mixed feedback and all to heart. It was very overwhelming.

    She often also made it feel like we have the power. I have to find a good guy. Smart girls find them. But then she would go on and on about how some people are lucky And some aren’t. (she applied this to many things in life).

    For a very long time I put immense pressure on myself with dating given all the above. (I’m sure I can elaborate more later).

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

    January 21, 2018 at 6:09 am #187819
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Cali Chica:

    We don’t know who our parents are when we are born to them, when we are children. There is no way for us to know. We need them to love us, take care of us. We need to feel safe with them. All we have are needs but no understanding.

    To feel safe with your mother, you needed to know that your mother was pleased having you are in her life (and so, she will feed you and protect you and attend to you).

    Instead she expressed dissatisfaction with you being in her life, her messages being: You caused me to lose my thin, no belly, no stretch mark body! You always cried, being a nuisance, and stopped me from doing what I wanted to do and going where I wanted to go! You are bothering me with your problems, ever since you were born crying! Go socialize; you are making me look bad!

    We can see, Cali Chica, don’t we… how other people in the world are indeed dishonest, cruel… but we can’t imagine our mothers can be dishonest and cruel. No! It can’t be my mother!

    Why not, why can it not be … my mother?

    It is common too, people being dishonest and cruel. This explains why so many, many people are suffering. The fact that cruelty is normal doesn’t take away from the damage done to every individual exposed to cruelty.

    Your parents were correct when they said: “ever since you were young you’ve always had a problem. You came out of the womb crying and you continue still”-

    Ever since you were born you had a problem: you were born to them.

    anita

    January 21, 2018 at 6:59 am #187827
    cali sister
    Participant

    They are very dishonest and cruel.

    When I was bullied in high school, I had to prove to my mother that it wasn’t my fault. She didn’t believe me at first. I came home crying one day and instead of trying to make me feel better, she immediately called my boyfriend at that time and said, “she keeps crying. You need to come. I don’t know what to do with her”

    she is a bully to my sister and I, and when we have an actual problem – she bullies us more.

    I remember being there when my sister came home and finally opened up to my parents. I remember where I was sitting. I remember feeling tight. Like I wanted to explode. Like I wanted to elicit a stronger response from them. I was young. And confused. And I saw my sister- coming for help. And like she said, all they continued to talk about even after she left was – how she’s always a problem. Never focuses on herself. Always focuses on friends and boys. Well, that’s your fault isn’t it?

    January 21, 2018 at 8:06 am #187835
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear calisister:

    They are very dishonest and cruel, you wrote.

    What do you do with this understanding, in context of your ongoing contact with them?

    Does this understanding, this seeing of the truth and telling it like it is, not sugar coating it, does it lead to anything different in your interactions with your parents?

    anita

    January 21, 2018 at 11:38 am #187929
    Cali Chica
    Participant

    Yes. Not are they cruel and unkind. They gaslighted us and continue to if we ever bring it up or have a fleeting memory of such. They also bring up how ungrateful we are if ever speak the slightest mark against them.

    This is quite classic. I think my sister and I struggle more with the things that aren’t as apparent or straightforward so to speak.

    Such as with my mom – she did suffer a lot ever since she was married and moved to this country. My father was very bad to her especially in the first years of marriage until I was about 4 or so. And her own family members, siblings who had moved to the US prior to her were very terrible to her and me. My entire young childhood I recall feeling this and seeing with my own eyes My aunt’s and uncles leaving us out, Insulting us etc. When I was old enough to absorb it on my own I felt so bad that people would treat my parents this way. Back then they still tried a lot with such people and were always sad and defeated.

    So I do know a lot of that suffering is true and objective. I do also know that it doesn’t warrant any of their own evil behavior. Sure. But I do sometimes struggle with the fact that they had so much sadness and suffering especially 10-15 years ago. And aside from them as parents, my mom had even more suffering given that my father also treated her poorly years ago.

    January 21, 2018 at 6:15 pm #187959
    Cali Chica
    Participant

    i always wanted to know – what does it feel like to have a sense of relief – that (aah) feeling.
    sure at the end of a yoga class i do feel slightly better, less tense in the muscles, more uplifted. but what does it feel like to take a deep breath in and out and let off some steam and feel a release

    i can’t recall ever feeling a sense of relief. after an exam, after a huge event, after anything. waking up the next day and feeling that “phew” weight off your shoulders. nope never.
    and it makes sense why. because my baseline has always been suffering and anxiety. i have no idea what it feels like to even come back from vacation and feel “lighter, more relaxed, at ease” (sure some relief from headaches or muscle tension, and 10 percent better mentally but what does it feel like to REALLY FEEL better.

    like oh you just got married – wow must be a huge sense of relief.
    -nope, don’t feel any better just the same (like body is tensely holding onto something unable to let go)

    as a result of this my mind also finds other things to be stressed about if one stressor does pass, since it’s baseline is not to release stress (we have spoken about this in prior posts)

    I asked myself, what will it take for me to stop this suffering. if it is rock bottom, then i’ve hit it – over the past year

    1) got involved with the police, as I didn’t know how to take it any further

    2) felt physically ill so many months, losing weight, feeling terrible

    3) constant muscle tension everyday of my life

    4) insomnia – this in and of itself ruins quality of life

    5) so many numerous issues with my now husband given i too abused him, and projected all my abuse and negativity onto him for the past few years, which has caused him a great deal of trauma and ptsd (pushing forward the abuse). we are improving tremendously, but just like i suffered, these sort of things leave scars and marks and pain

    6)inability to ever daydream, feel excited about the future – as above the baseline state is tense and not ever relieved, my mind doesn’t fathom anything different (not because it is afraid to)
    like oh you must be so excited for the move – kinda feel nothing
    oh you must be so excited you graduated – oh hmm i did, don’t feel much different

    oh you’re so lucky that this X thing happened – sure i can see that in my head or in theory, but do i FEEL that, nope.

    • This reply was modified 6 years, 9 months ago by Cali Chica.
    • This reply was modified 6 years, 9 months ago by Cali Chica.
    January 22, 2018 at 4:59 am #188001
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Cali Chica:

    Regarding your mother’s suffering: you only know what she told you and the little you remember of the behavior of an aunt and uncles and such. Sure your mother suffered (otherwise she wouldn’t be inflicting her daughters with so much of it), but what you know about her suffering is not The Truth. After all, your mother is not a truth teller, is she. Some of what she told you is true, some are outright lies, lots is twisted into a presentation that fits her motivations. And then, what you remember is suspect as being The Truth, because our memory is so selective. If it fits what we are told, we’ll remember it. If it doesn’t, we get confused and forget.

    Regarding your suffering: do you think you suffer less than your mother ever did?

    Did you have a better childhood than your mother’s?

    Do you have a better life than your mother?

    anita

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