I think really I just don’t know how to act around him. We sometimes hold hands, we miss etc, we share the bed, hug while sleeping, “enjoyed” the room etc before we had to share it (as it’s a hostel) Then during the day he’s more distant and it confuses me. I get trapped trying to analyse his behaviour. Its like a confused intimacy… That’s what’s stressing me at the moment. I think I know I should just leave him be and let him make his decision, have his thoughts etc. I’m ready whichever way… I just have all this stuff to give and Idk what to do with it..

It’s true what you say, everything else become a a blur and I focus on him.

I think I can handle it either way, I think the problem is I might leave Brazil, but if he wants to start something, then naturally ill stay. I suppose this is adding to my lack of power and exacerbating the situation. But in reality I don’t know.

I also hate to think I’m holding out hope etc but it’s all in vainm. What if he’s waiting till the end of the trip cos he doesn’t want to tell me during and I become a total deadweight?

Well writing that I guess it doesn’t matter either way, I’m not finding out now anyway.

I just get confused too… Sometimes its like we are just waiting for security etc. I realise for example I still refer to him as my ex and not my lover or whatever. We need time.

Then sometimes I just think what’s the point, this is stupid. I’m the one who likes the other more and for me relationships like that don’t work …. But, is that just my negative mindset? My lack of trust?

I think I kind of can’t accept on some level that I just have to let him make his mind up. I’ve done as much as I can.

I also hate the idea that this was a waste of time…am I being an idiot? Or is his side of things an honest approach to the situation? He said he understands I want an answer and its frustrating. He said he wants to make sure in his mind.

yet I feel like s fool for having held on to the old relationship for so long. I think it’s clouding having a fresh start with him.

I started focussing on myself today but then I became vindictive and was imagining all the ways I could be mean to him when he says he doesn’t want anything with me. How ill enjoy blocking him etc…. all totally useless and unproductive in the end but I couldn’t escape it.

Tough words to read but I understand. I always avoided thinking it was over. We never had actual time together.

Trying to put myself in his position tho, I understand it. Especially with what you say, it feeling an impulse. Maybe he is asking himself if it is an impulse or something real.

We had planned things, but each time I’ve brought them up he’s retreated. Maybe I pushed too much.

What I don’t understand is his behaviour. Fine if it hasn’t worked but why isn’t he being honest? Now he’s clearly being passive aggressively quiet towards me. I mean culturally Brazilians are atrocious at commuNication. I can’t be bothered to force him to give me an answer. I’ve done enough.

At the same time I have one more week on this trip… Its hard to be around him. I don’t know what to say or do, I’m resentful and can’t be friendly I think neither can he.

Idk whether to wait or not. I understand your advice but I kind of understand him too, if he’s being sincere. If I met another ex and had a feeling i’d try not to act on impulse. Does that mean he’s confused but taking it seriously?

He even said, when he told me he had feelings again, lets take it slow. He said he hadn’t kissed me when we hugged in the club because he was afraid I would build up expectations. But I suppose we had good conversations, his feeling grew over the few days we saw each othet. Even then he had started retreating. Maybe I was too ready. I’ve been thinking about meeting him again since he blocked me. He had 2 years moving on, living a life, then meets me and I confuse his intentions or plans etc. Then I’m super ready and constantly talking about getting back together. Maybe it’s too weird for him?

Plus on the trip, I’ve noticed the first few days i just hung around him like a child. I kept waiting to be able to talk to him again. He was probably frustrated. And we’re then spending a lot of time together.

Plus again, differentiation wise, this is his trip. Its his uni doing it, on his subject with his friends etc. He has things to do. I enjoy it a little but I get bored on the excursions. I haven’t really been able to do anything for myself.

All the stops on the trip are about geology, in another language. I’m bored etc and then I go lurk around him. Each time he says what rock it is but I lose interest. I mean I am interested but I’m processing a lot etc.

He actually invited me after we’d talked but before we’d met. When we were just friends. Friend a going on this trip together is fine. But I think we lost ourselves then its like a husband taking his wife on a business trip. What is she gonna do at the meetings? like maybe this happens sometimes, but maybe the wife goes and does something else, not force herself to attend the meetings, sitting by her husband 24/7 trying to talk about doing the dishes or whatever and he’s trying to do business.

See this is where I get lost. I don’t know whether to write it off as me finding the wrong guy completely, or the right one but my prior issues shaking the relationship to breaking point. Or just being delusional… Thinking about what you said he always had a slightly more rational view… The distance was real, for me I was always romantically dreaming away.

What about patience being a virtue? Idk

• This reply was modified 6 years, 1 month ago by Ben.

Hi Anita

So an update.

It turns out we had both been ignoring each other, because the other was ignoring.

After my last message, I spent 2 days trying to stop talking about it to everyone as actually it was simply my anxiety driving me around in circles and not resolving anything. I thought a lot about what you said. My friends told me something similar, but more along the lines of just relax and see what happens. I stopped talking about it, and stopped thinking obsessively about him and what he was doing. I relaxed somewhat. I seperated from him on some level. I started to think about what I would do next. Maybe… Australia? Mexico? Egypt?

The next part of the trip was a 3 day stay next to the Pacific. We were going to share the room originally, I was ready to not do that and stay with other people, whatever. He nodded at me through this weird detente we had and so we were sharing the room. Whatever, I thought.

Anyway, that night, by the Pacific, I finally challenged him, I asked him why he hadn’t said anything. He asked me the same question. I asked him, how dare he invite me on this trip, why did he try to get rid of me that day saying if I wanted to stay behind those days before. He said he knew it was hard for me, and had asked me in case I just wanted to relax and have my own time rather than standing around like a lemon…So….. hey, maybe that was my abandonment issues misinterpreting his signals. He had empathised with me… I had misinterpeted it as negative… We talked too about why neither of us talked to each other. Why didn’t you talk to me!? – was asked repeatedly by both parties. He said he hadn’t talked cos everytime he looked at me, I gave him a foul look on my face.

After some more talking, he opened up to me at this point. He said he was scared of the relationship, he said he didn’t know what would happened between us, he never felt so serious about someone. Other boyfriends were passing, but with me he was scared of the future he saw for us. He also finally opened up, just a little, about his own attachment issues and how he is always just alone. He said never shares a lot of things with anyone. I knew this before, but this time he opened up on a different level to me. His father, who was closeted, left him, his brother and mother when he was five, and he had to take care of his brother since then. He really doesn’t like his father, despite his fathers attempts repeteadly to be his best pal. He told me he was scared of how he felt for me, he didn’t know what to do. I think he had had his own “should I just leave this confusion or should I give it a shot?” moment. I told him i’m there for you always, he should feel vulnerable. He hugged me etc. I really felt like that was the first time he’d opened up to someone. I felt very connected to him and felt I finally understood he just has his own issues and he’s very confused too. I kept telling him, talking about “us” is not just planning for the future, its talking about how we wil lrelate to each other. We need to know we can be open etc. He agreed. He understood all. He also asked me “be serious Ben, will you be my boyfriend?”.

After that, he was generally more affectionate. Holding hands again. We agreed we had communication issues. A day later we walked into a jewellery shop and he asked about buyimng rings for us (tho in Brazil couples do this as attachment not just for marriage). I was so happy, but now, I had a bit more self control. I said sure because I would appreciate the symbolism, but I knew it wouldn’t mean much yet.

Still I was forever anxious and jealous. But I came to realise his behaviour is just him and I only get anxious when I re-interpret it someway. As I said before, and you told me Anita, everytime he takes his hand away, I will crave it again. Thats my issue.

Anyway, we were good for a few days. We still are, but I think he retreated away from openness again. There was a point we had a free day. Everyone was gonig to the centre of the city we were staying at. They were faffing like crazy, I just walked out and stood at the bus stop, he came shortly after and we got the bus together. We looked for rings for a while. Then we had lunch. I said “its nice its just us”… I think this triggered something in him. I meant it like “thank god we’re away from the chaotic group”… he took it as me clinging to him. He started a long thing about “ben I~´m an independent person (fine with me!) Ben, I like to be a part of the group (fine?!) etc etc. “You wont change me” (kinda different tack from the conversation we had before!) Basically, he was outlining he wanted differentiation. Which I’m fine with! But he is clearly very sensitive about it. And so am I. Rather than correcting his misinterpretation (though tbf he clearly has attachment issues) I got triggered myself, and tried to explain that I understood him but that failed. He got angry. I got confused.

I tried to tell him ‘look, its not what you’re saying, its how you’re saying it” but he was grumpy at that point and said “well maybe you should think about if this is the relationship you want if you’re always going to be anxious”… eye roll from me… I mean, he’s correct. I should. And, I still am. I see potential for me to grow in this relationship, I see a happy future, of us leading happy independent lives, as I had wanted and seen in him when I first knew him. I think he felt close to me after the chat at the Pacific, and he felt vulnerable again, and felt it was time to push me away (like his dad? Idk) Before this conversation had happened, we had talked about when we would see each other again. He had invited me to see him in a couple of places where we could stay. I said “well hey, I can leave work early and join you on some of your trip!”… I think he got a little triggered here. “But, I will just go with my backpack, you wouldn”t like it”… ugh. He suggested instead I meet him and the end of the trip and then go meet his mother with him before I go home at Christmas.

Lifting off the anxiety, I think this is a real issue. He clearly has attachment issues of his own. I respect independence, and I keept telling him this, but he gets so sensitive. I almost feel like saying “whats gonna happen?! Are you gonna love your dad?!?”… Thats what I have to decide now. Do I want to work on my anxiety, and see where we go? Importantly a part of me doesn’t care. I´m gonna work as hard as I can on me now. The anxiety over him was exhausting. So, I’m gonna give it a chance I think. If I don’t like it when i’m the person I want to be, then screw it! I’m only 25 and can do what I want.

Internally after it all, I realised how weak my sense of self is. I arrived back from the trip and relaxed for the first time in about 4 years. I didn’t care about so many things. I just sat, looked at the sky, my mind was clear. I was “with him”, and nothing else needed to be thought about. Rather than rumination, I put my phone down and just relaxed. I cried a bit about the trip, tears of sadness and happiness. I let myself feel close to him, but I let myself feel close to me, for the first time in forever. I didn’t need to think about him anymore. His position is his position. I have my own. I think I finally established myself again.

So, there is my update.

Thanks!

Thanks for your reply Anita.

We looked a lot for rings, but unfortunately im allergic to silver, and gold is super expensive. There were no alternatives so we didnt buy a pair despite much searching. I think it would have really helped tho, it would have a symbolic, physical presence that I could look to. My mind is too volatile at the moment to hold onto a relationship while hes away. A ring to look at, to feel on my hand, would allay those fears so much better than thnking about it. Ho-hum.

Some more reflections:

I~m struggling with the anxiety still. Moving back into the rythym of life here in the city, its only 2 days back and i’ve almost totalyl forgotten the experiences of the trip. The sensations, relaxation, connection to the environment. I also keep worrying like im forgetting what we said to each other. I keep zero-basing the relationship again, forgetting all the commitment he said.

I also realised tho so much of my behaviour I trigger the anxiety myself. On the trip I was constnatly looking at his phone when he was typing next to me. Whos that? Why is he saying that? Oh, hes talknig to an American guy about Argentina? Practically cheating…. wait a minute!!! I was constnatly searching for betrayal. Making myself anxious, as if its only ticking clock, a countdown to doom. I keep stalking him on instagram (We are still not friends on facebook, which I think is a blessing at this point). He posted a picture of a meal, a guy was tagged. WHO IS THAT? (Well, probably a friend right? Even if he was cheating, and why would he, why would he be so stupid as to tag the guy in a place he knows I can see!?) My brain fires so rapidly I lose the moment and start worrying and feeling betrayed. Then a compulsion to talk to him, message him, feel secure again overwhelms me. But… this is the guy who was going to put a ring on my finger last week! This is what I struggle with. In a way, its easy and simple to stop but its the hardest step to put this anxiety down. I hope I can get back to where I was. Learn what to process, what to leave, what to simply turn off.

I like a lot what you said. He is scared to get to close, im scared to get too far. I just hope we can slowly work it out. Whenever he talks about independence, it hurts me a lot, but I realised I heard it as “I never want to spend anytime with you”, which is stupid, even on the trip he would spend a couple hours each day with me. I got anxious too because Im constnatly imagining us moving in with each other straight away. He wants to finish his masters dissertation after his travels, and wants to do it at home, in the quiet rural north, where his professors are. Its about 2 hours flight away. I want him to live here with me, but I live in a huge noisy city… not really disseration writing territory. I also want to earn a bit of money in the city and stay near my counsellor a little longer. Nothing really wrong right? The distance is annoying and a source of anxiety but I could work on that now. We both love travelling, he says sometimes he wants to travel solo. Indeed, I can see myself travelling solo (doing Spanish courses etc) in the context of hte relationship. But what am I thinking? He doesn~t want to be with me! Why hasnt he cancelled all his travels, or invited me? Why isnt he begging me to quit my job here and go live with him immediately! Why is he happy with all this dsitance!!!! Ahhhhhhhhh.

Even if I go move up north with him (as I think will happen, he wants to look after his mother), I know that in my current state I will start to dissolve into him. I fear being isolated actually, which is my problem not his. Im the one who needs to step up, make an effort to speak portuguese and make my own friends, even here in the city. I get insulted when he tries to get me to meet people (getting rid of me, wants me to hang out with friends… because he wants to get rid of me) rather than thinking oh wow, new people to meet! Just what I imagined doing when I was a kid and teenager, living in a country with a guy I love and meeting new people! Having friends and a life in a foreign country! My teenaged self, even my 21 yr old self, would be dead with joy if I told him that.

But then, along come all the doubts. All of them.. not logistical or realistic, but all the neurotic anxieites. I can~t live like that. He cant cope and I wouldnt cope either. So I dont know what to do on that front. I still feel like I betray him by taking up anything, meeting people, even looking at other guys, like my entire sexuality should be dedicated exclusively to him. I close off expeirences because of him.. but why?

Thing is I keep these… the anxieties. Even ones that are totally for me.

I don’t keep the moments like him falling asleep in my arms the last two nights on the bus. I dont keep the moment we couldnt stop laughing cos I fell over in a ditch when we went to sit in the moonlight. Even the moment he asked me about hte rings, I just tell myself ugh he felt compelled to say that… not, oh gosh he loves me that much! How valued I must be to him!… Nope, even buying rings I think of as being a chore for him! I dont let myself feel the joy that someone wanted to commit to me like that… im waiting for the next disappointment I can blame on myself. Just as I feel like ive forgotten them instantly and need to check the relationship still exists, I assume he has forgotten them all too and that, now he hasnt messaged me on whatsapp, hes gone! He hasnt… clearly, but the feeling or neurosis is as such.

I notice im getting tangled up with his issues too tho. I know my craving for anxiety is the perfect nemesis to his craving for independence. I read about the two attachment issues, one craves the other avoids, we clearly have these opposites. I struggle with thinknig how to help him with his problem, to help him, not just to substitute my own lack of self esteem. I think he detects that, or senses it. It happened when we were together before… I would try to force it out of him… the boundary between helping someone you love so theyre happier, so the relationship works a little smoother, and between selfishly trying to force him to be closer to me… to cling to me as I cling to him (which perversely I would find horribly unattractive).

Indeed, do I just need to let him come to the conclusion himself rather than “helping him”. Is the relationship sustainable with those two opposite forces? My unhappiness motivates me to change myself. But he is content, will he change? Should he change? Does he need to change for it to work? Am I the problem? (Not me, but my never ending, insatiable anxieites?)

I also think I still dont take the relationship seriously. I think I dont trust him. Half justified because afterall he ghosted me when he blocked me which, even though everytime it comes up he gets a little mournful about and says sorry as if he regrets it, I dont assimilate this. Living in the past? But  the other half I just dont get and seemingly cant get rid of. I think if I just trusted him a lot of this anxiety would go away. I could plan, relaxxxxxxxxxx and take my life and our life as it comes. But perhaps this is where I need the therapy, can I not trust because of dad etc? (Indeed maybe he, my ex, needs to ask himself the same question)

thanks again. This post was a lot of reflection.