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February 22, 2016 at 8:25 am #96755dfhParticipant
I feel that I approach things with simple logic. In a beginning level philosophy class we were taught the concept of simple logic; the if-then statement. If A equals B and B equals C, then A equals C. I take this concept and apply it to a lot in life. Especially when I have to figure something out on my own without instruction. It doesn’t work for all parts of life, but so far it has helped me make sense of some things a little better.
I agree with your analogy. We tend to go back to what we know from the past when dealing with situations that pop up. It’s hard to change the way of thinking when it has happened repetitively in one’s life. I find it hard. My logic tells me what if I do become happy? I don’t recall ever being truly happy, so what then? It changes my whole outlook, everything about me. I won’t be the same person I am at this moment. I don’t know how I feel about that. It’s good to have change in our lives, but to become a completely different person seems like you’d have to change your surroundings, the people you associate and are friends with, the job you may have, and the way you see life.
I’ve been reminded many times that I stay in my box. I’m comfortable here, and I (from others’ opinions) don’t want to get out of my box, so I should stop complaining if I don’t want to leave the box. But I don’t think they fully understand what it’s like to be constantly placed back in the box time after time only to be told that I should be stepping out. I’ve also read on this site and others, that we should try to get rid of the negative people in our life, they’re hurting and usually they try to bring us down with them. I agree. But what if the negative person is you? What if you’ve attempted to change and people just see the negative parts of you and shy away from you when you do need people in order to change? it’s a catch-22 in my eyes.
February 22, 2016 at 9:01 am #96760AnonymousGuestDear dfh:
Of all your posts so far, this one feels to me as the most promising of change, good change. It is encouraging for me to read this one! You do make so much sense, my goodness! The honesty and integrity of your thinking is what is so thrilling to me!
You described it like it is, so clearly and the last few lines are most amazing!
I understand the frustration of being told to step out of the box and then as you try (and you tried again and again… and again) and it doesn’t work, those people who told you to step out…where are they? They are not there to hold your hand when you experience the distress and lack of success of having stepped out. You step back in the box and then… here are the people telling you: step out of the box!
Realizing this, I don’t want to be one of those people.
And I understand the discomfort, distress of changing. This is why the only changing that can work is incremental, in small doses. But I am not one of those people anymore, pushing, pressuring people to change.
Having established that, where do we go from here, I wonder…?
anita
February 22, 2016 at 9:16 am #96761dfhParticipantThat question has been in my mind quite a few times. I feel i’m tired of trying to step out. I’ve done it so many times only to return a few weeks or months later…to the box. I have one person as support and she’s got a lot on her plate: 3 kids, a full time job, and trying to maintain a household. I understand and agree that it would be too much placed on her to always be there for me. I have to do this on my own it feels like. I don’t have the finances to seek professional help, and I don’t feel like i’m welcome in the town I live in and i’ve lived here for 10 years. It makes me isolated, whether I choose it or not, having no support and no friends makes it hard for me to have the motivation to change and do something better for myself. I’ve never really cared about my well-being because as i’ve said before I don’t feel like I matter much to myself or anyone.
And so to answer your question, I don’t know where we go from here. What would you suggest?
February 22, 2016 at 9:23 am #96765AnonymousGuestDear dfh:
As to my own question, my own answer is: I want to be here for you, in this context of this website. I don’t want to suggest to you to step out of the box, so this is my decision: to not suggest it to you. It is also my challenge. So I have something to .. change myself and this correspondence with you is my opportunity.
So every time you post to me, i will respond and I will be looking forward to your posts, hoping you will (no pressure, no demand) and will communicate for as long as… long.
Without social support, everything is difficult and lots of things are impossible. We are genetically social animals.
So back to where do we go from here- we go to your box then. Share anything you want about life in the box with no judgment that you… shouldn’t be in that box. You have my intended acceptance of you being where you are. It is okay.
anita
February 22, 2016 at 11:15 am #96784dfhParticipantWhat i’ve discussed in this post is basically what it’s like being inside my box. The self-hatred, lack of belief, rejection, disappointment, all of it. That’s what I live in everyday. The thoughts repeating themselves over and over. The what-ifs and the conversations that I have with the people that have wronged me. The ideas of how to end it all and what I would think the responses would be from the people that say they care about me but yet show opposite body language all the time. The physical and mental stress from working in crappy jobs just to turn my financial situation around from bankruptcy. The stress of the reality that my parents don’t have much longer to live and all the struggles that they have and have had in the past. The barely existent relationship I have with my brother because I don’t want to accept who my family is and how they are. This is my box. You see, in order to get out of the box, in theory, I would have to leave all of this behind. Some of it I can, but some of it I won’t because I care too much. Some don’t understand that when you change your mindset, and you change your belief system you actually change how you feel about those around you. Some that were your best friends or a loved one, no longer matters much to you because your viewpoint has changed on life. I can’t let people go just because I care too much about them. I want them in my life. Like my friend that’s distanced herself from me. I don’t want to let her go out of my life. Same with others. They all mean something to me.
February 22, 2016 at 11:24 am #96786AnonymousGuestDear dfh:
Your pain about your parents, all the struggles they have and had in the past… this is a heavy burden, a great pain to carry, isn’t it? It reminds me that for decades I felt too guilty to … entertain the thought of being happy, free because it meant leaving behind, leaving my suffering mother behind, to suffer alone. The thought of me not being miserable felt like a betrayal of her. Do you relate to it? In a way, i stayed in the box of misery because I didn’t want to be a bad person and leave her alone in her misery.
???
anita
February 22, 2016 at 12:27 pm #96795dfhParticipantI do relate to it, but I feel i’m on the other side of the fence. I’m being left to my own misery if that makes sense. As much as I understand that people don’t want negativity in their lives, everyone experiences it at one time or another. And, what about the people being left to themselves? I feel like i’m that negative person, the one that has a lot of pain inside and doesn’t know how to fix it and all of these other people that cross my path see it and think the same thing, the “he’s negative, I can’t be around him” and leave. My point is, how do we help those who truly need the help out of the darkness? How do I help me? I’ve tried books, i’ve tried affirmations, meeting new people, going places, trying to stay positive. And nothing works for me at the time. So I go back to the box, because I know what is expected and I know it’s going to be there and it works for me for the time i’m there. That’s the problem here. I revert to the box because people see and hear my negativity and want nothing to do with it, but others wonder why I have so much to be grateful for but yet I’m too mad at the world to see it.
February 22, 2016 at 7:33 pm #96824AnonymousGuestDear dfh:
I don’t know about people saying: you have so much to be grateful for! This is one of the things people say that annoy me so! Robin Williams had international fame and success that the world worship. This one example disproves this saying: you have so much to be grateful for….
I am enjoying communicating with you, dfh. In my experience you are intelligent and your thinking is honest and direct. I like that very much. And so it is for me, it is a pleasure to communicate with you. My therapist of 2011-2013 said I like looking into the darkness. As long as it is honest. This is my value: honest and direct, not positive and … Honest, direct. How rare this is to find a person that is these things.
So in the box, there you are, honest and direct. And intelligent, and clear and communicative. My goodness, you are a catch for anyone who wouldn’t mind knocking on your box and be lucky enough to get your invitation to enter!
I am getting poetic I think. Listening to Marvin Gaye affects me. But like you, I am honest and direct, mean what I say, say what I mean.
Let’s keep talking, please…
anita
February 22, 2016 at 10:02 pm #96860dfhParticipantYou bring up a good example of how depression can leave some of the most famous people feeling like they have no other options available like Robin Williams. Despite bringing laughter to people around the world, he left the world a troubled man. That brings me to a point: Not everyone is going to understand depression and its grip on the person it truly has. I’ve had people in my life tell me to grin and bear it; but it’s easier said than done for me. I have a face that gives me away every time. If i’m anything other than neutral, it shows through my face. Most times I have an angry look because I’m obviously not happy, but it also seems to intimidate some and others, well they kind of shy away from me. I’ve been told I have a pretty angry face when i’m mad. I’m not proud of that, but I don’t lie about how I feel simply because my face will give me away anyway. I can’t put on a fake smile. This is why when people tell me “fake it ’til you make it” won’t work in my case. My eyes and face give me away.
February 23, 2016 at 3:51 pm #96955AnonymousGuestDear dfh:
My goodness! I have this in common with you: my face too reveals everything, sooner than I am aware of it! Trouble shows on my face sooner than I am aware of it! And yes, I don’t even try to act as if, to fake it, whatever it is. I hate faking anything, with a passion! I just want to be authentic and not submit to others by trying to appear something that they will approve of. No one is so important that I should submit to him or her and appear as something they will okay. Not anymore. That strategy brought me nothing but misery and anger, more and more anger and distress.
No fake smiles- no fake smiles!
Till your next post-
anita
February 23, 2016 at 8:09 pm #96988dfhParticipantSo here is my dilemma: How do I get people to understand who I am without them either distancing themselves or just not even beginning a friendship with me? I don’t understand how to do that honestly. Yes, I am not in a good place at the moment, that doesn’t mean I WANT to isolate myself or lose friends, it’s the fact that I’m having a tough time. There’s nothing wrong with that in my opinion simply because at one point or another everyone in this world will go through a rough time with something and some of them (not all) will rely on friends to get them through it. That doesn’t mean those friends are supposed to drop their whole life just to tend to their friend in need, but what it does entail is that they make them matter in life and try to help them out of the darkness they are in. At least that’s what I would do. I wouldn’t turn my back on a friend, no matter how frustrated I am with them, if they need help, that’s what I’m here for, regardless of whether I’m struggling at the moment or not. It wouldn’t be about me, it would be about them and how I can help them get out of their struggle and become a better person because of it. We don’t know other people’s struggles, we can’t know everything, but I’ve seen so far in my own lifetime too many people turn their backs on people in need and that’s sad. We deserve a better world and those people deserve the help they so desperately need too.
February 23, 2016 at 8:25 pm #96994AnonymousGuestDear dfh:
I strongly agree with you and wrote it repeatedly on this forum: there is too little love in this world. And you deserve a friend or friends that will be there for you when you need comfort. Absolutely!
Bed time for me. I would like to respond more to your post above tomorrow morning (WA, USA). Would you like to add anything to it, as much as you’d like?
Till tomorrow, take care of yourself, please!
anita
February 23, 2016 at 8:54 pm #96999AnonymousGuestDear dfh:
I am not in bed yet, so..things that come to mind about how to share about your pain without turning off a friend who is truly a friend? When you share about your misery, do so in a way that honors yourself and the other person, that is you allow the other person to help you, even in the smallest way, you let them know they are helping. This way the friend feels he or she is contributing something to you, making a difference. If you talk about your troubles a whole lot but accept nothing from the friend, dismissing everything they say and not indicating to the friend that the fact that she is listening is helpful to you.. then it is very frustrating to the friend. The friend needs to know she is helping.
Also as you share about your troubles see to it that you are not blaming the friend for it (that would be another kind of interaction), that you take responsibility to your feelings. Express your hurt, fear, not only anger. People feel empathy to a hurting, fearful person… and there is always hurt or fear or both under anger, so go there…
And give the friend a break, do something a bit pleasant, take a time out from sharing your troubles. Maybe ask the friend about how he is doing.
But most important, let the friend know he or she is helping you just by listening or by a particular comment, insight… if you mean it. You can also ask the friend to not give you advice (if that annoys you) and ask for what you need, let’s say to just be listened to.
What do you think so far.. now I think i am going to retire till tomorrow-
anita
February 24, 2016 at 11:23 am #97050dfhParticipantThey’re good ideas. I have done some of it, but her response was negative in that she told me she couldn’t handle me talking about that and that she would have to step back if I continued to do so in order to protect herself and her son. Another friend is supportive but I feel i’m a burden because I won’t stop talking about my problems and she says a lot of neutral stuff because I don’t think she knows what else to do to help. I know both of them want to help in their own way, but I’ve been told that a lot of it has to do with me helping myself and i’m out of options, or it feels that way to me.
It can get frustrating being told that I have to find a way to fix myself when i’m already broken. Sometimes we need outside help such as friends just to take us away from our own personal hell and focus on someone else for a few hours. Unfortunately the friends I do have don’t like me focusing on them when I have problems myself. I’d rather help someone else fix themselves than to fix what I can’t fix in myself. I think they see it as me ignoring my problems and in a way that’s what it is. But in life if we can’t fix something we usually throw it away or pay someone to fix it, or for some leave it in a corner or a place where we still have it but it’s set aside until a later time. This is basically what i’ve been doing with myself. I haven’t had the finances to seek professional help and I can’t exactly throw myself away, so I ignore them; I leave my problems in the corner of the room for a later date. It doesn’t solve the problem but i’ve been told many many times that we have to make do with what we have in some situations and this is what i’m doing. The only difference is the problem isn’t physical, it’s mental.
February 24, 2016 at 1:55 pm #97067AnonymousGuestDear dfh:
You wrote that you are broken and you are suggesting you can’t fix yourself because you are broken. You live in a small town, you wrote in a previous post on this thread. And you don’t have the finances to seek professional psychotherapy. The two friends you mentioned were not helpful and … wouldn’t help, don’t want to, I think you feel.
I am not going to claim that you are not broken. Accept it then. This is your life, broken, alone. This is it. This is the way it is and so it is.
There is peace in acceptance. Think of a person in a prison cell, four walls around him and he wants out ! He wants freedom! So he begs the guards to unlock his cell. They have the key, they can free him! So he begs: let me out! And they say: get yourself out! And the prisoner says: What the *$^, you are the ones with the *&T^%% KEY!
Only in your case, that friend and the other person, they don’t have the key.
So you are in that prison cell and you want freedom, day in and day out you are hurting! So what do you do?
You stop wanting freedom, you stop wanting to get out. You look around: this is your cell, this is your home and you relax into it. The best you can.
Remember living in the box? Since you are living in the box, why not relax into it. Stop dreaming and hoping and wanting to get out… for now, for a whole week- stop wanting out for at least a week, and see how you feel.
anita
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