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Overthinking/Ability to believe in myself

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  • #49289
    Dan
    Participant

    I have a very, VERY bad problem with overthinking things. It was a small issue before, but I recently had a teacher guide me through the nature of reality, the breakdown of the ego, and the grand mysteriousness of the universe. The grand questions of the universe doesn’t bother me, oddly enough: we are here, we will never really know the answer due to the egocentric predicament, so why not just go for it? That’s the whole reason we have an ego in the first place, at least that’s my guess.

    I wish I was better at having more “solid” thoughts. I tend to be afraid of choosing the “wrong” thoughts. I think things like these:

    * I want to be a good person, but should I even worry about that, especially when good and bad are subjective? Am I just choosing to be around people and do good things because them to have a high image of me because I have low self esteem and need the validation of others for my own personal ego stroking? (I will search my mind for the answers to these questions, but none of them ever quite hit the mark. I always want to find the one answer that covers all the bases).

    * I want to let go of my mind and enjoy life, but what if I’m not really interested in the things that I am doing? What if I’m just fooling myself? What if I let go of judging my mind and it winds up I am a bad person? Is it natural for people to seek out love and want to help others? Or am I just doing that because I am afraid of the alternative and am cowardly on the inside? Do I really feel this way or am I just telling myself that because society says I SHOULD feel that way?

    I feel like the issue here is that I am a self fulfilling prophecy: the very fact that I worry about these things is what causes them to come true. But I don’t like to just “accept” my mistakes, it’s almost like there’s a “Whatever, I screwed up, I’m over it already” feel to it. What if I really hurt someone? And what if I was just upset not because of what I did to that person, but I am all wrapped up in what kind of person that makes me, instead of actually considering their feelings? I feel like the fact that I try so hard is what pushes my thoughts in the wrong direction: “I need to feel bad for this person. I want to. But why do I want to? Shouldn’t it come naturally to me if I really do? I’m a bad person…”

    I just find it hard to believe in myself. Not so much accepting how I think, but even just trying to know how I really think. The thing about overthinking is, eventually you either have some grand epiphany by the end of it, but in the face of the earlier logic: I can’t choose what to think, but the epiphany did the trick. I will finally find the words that “hit the spot”. This happened for a while, until it got to the point where even these revelations weren’t enough. There is ALWAYS a “What if” that contradicts it, like I am looking for something that encapsulates ALL my issues. I wish to build up my self trust, but give myself all these reasons that I don’t deserve it, that I have ulterior motives, ect. If you want to like people and be into things, shouldn’t it come to you nautrally? I feel like if I “force” it then I’m just lying to myself about what I want. But deep down, I want to like people for the sake of liking people, and be into things and have interests. If deep down that’s how I wish it was, that’s got to mean something right? But the instant I tell myself “Maybe that’s not the case…” I’m off in a tailspin again.

    At a core level, I wish I could just choose what I want to be true and have full confidence in it.

    Funny enough, typing this out erased the tailspin I was in earlier. This is something that used to be really bad but is slowly getting better, but I’ve learned time and time again, just because you are out of a tailspin does not mean that it can’t happen again. Whoever reads this, thanks for listening. It sounds overthought but it’s keeping me from living my life.

    #49290
    Matt
    Participant

    Dan,

    I’m sorry for your suffering, and understand how confusion can settle into the mind, and it becomes tough to navigate the maze. Sometimes when we look for things philosophically, we become absorbed in the mind, overlook our senses, and end up lost. Said differently, the maze grabs our attention, and we’re pulled along a roller coaster of thoughts as we try to plot an escape or resolution. A few things came to heart as I read your words.

    Consider that the solution to the maze isn’t found in the maze. Said differently, you keep looking for a “thought solution” to guide your way, and all that attention invested in thinking and thinking decreases the amount of concentration devoted to your body. This makes life much harder, because we get in the habit of ignoring our senses… which is where all the information actually is!

    For instance, consider two scenarios. In one, you are open, rested and quiet minded. As choices come up along the path, the information that helps us make the choice that is our song or dharma comes in through the senses. Much like seeds in an open field have a better chance to grow, perceptions in a spacious mind have a better chance to inspire wisdom. Said differently, having a clear mind helps us see the situations around us more clearly.

    So unfortunately, you’re in a bit of a maze, because you’re trying to think your way to wisdom, which actually prevents the wisdom from blossoming. The good news is, the solution to the maze is you drop the maze. You don’t have to look for an exit, you just move back to the breath, and the cycles cease. For instance, say you see a pretty woman whose style seems appealing. Your mind starts debating: does she seem approachable, are we compatible, do I look OK, in my league, etc etc. That energy is the same energy that was pushing you to talk to her, give it a shot, and see what grows. Instead, the energy of desire splashes back into your mind, spins around, and has an aftertaste such as regret or frustration.

    Dropping the maze, or “giving up being entertained by our mind” as my teacher phrased it is about cleaning up the clutter we have in our brain. Yes, the thoughts feel important. Yes, they have gravity. But, without harshness for bucking nature of our mind, we just see the ripples and move our attention back to the breath. To the feeling of air in our nasal area and abdomen.

    That being said, if your mind zips along like your post, perhaps before trying to stay with the breath, it would be faster and simpler for you to start with metta meditation. Because of your mental habits, you probably run out of energy pretty quickly. This produces a hunger or agitation, usually rooted in fear, and is most of the pressure behind your searching in the first place. Consider that as we sit with metta, a peaceful, concentrated state of mind devolps quickly and that pressure or thirst diminishes. Consider searching YouTube for “Bhante Gunaratana guided metta meditation” if interested.

    Finally, it also helps our restlessness to engage in self nurturing activities. Taking a bath, listening to soft music, walking in nature, playing an instrument… whatever helps your body feel peace. Set down the past, set down the future, and engage, relax, let go, and settle. This helps our peace grow stronger, because we make time and space for it.

    Namaste, brother, may your mind find peace.

    With warmth,
    Matt

    #49292
    lea
    Participant

    Hi Dan, you may have GAD, general anxiety disorder. I have it. It’s like I can never be satisfied with a situation. I always have to think of all possible scenarios and outcomes of a situation which also makes it hard for me to make important decisions in life. It makes me second guess myself. I know that I am this way because I grew around domestic violence, emotional abuse and my mom was/is emotional abusive towards me and very critical. It has made it so that I do not feel comfortable making my own decisions in life, or if there is a major problem ( or a small problem that may seem major) I tend to look at all of the possible ways that I could of caused the issues which then causes stress. I will take the blame before blaming someone or if I feel that someone else is in the wrong I always seek validation to make sure that I am right. And then people start to second guess me because they think, if I am so conflicted then maybe I did do something wrong! I think it is about building self confidence and mindfulness so that you will not fill your mind with useless clutter. Like a recycling bin instead of stress because it keeps getting used and reused in your mind. You should speak to a therapist. And yoga is good at help you focus at one thing at a time! As well as exercise.

    #49305
    Troy c
    Participant

    I know this reply may not hold any answers or maybe even any help at all. But reading your party really let me know that there is some one out there who is going through the same thought process I do daily too. I haven’t found an answer or a way yet but just like you im getting pretty tired of the feeling of everything I do feeling so ingenuine because I thought of all the motives that coulda made me think the thought. But I hope it helps you a little just to know that there is someone else out there!

    #49308
    Naomi
    Participant

    Hi Dan,

    I know exactly how you feel and like Lea said, you may have GAD which is also something I have. It is distressing having so many thoughts and how you can become worried that the thoughts you are actually having are true or a reflection of what society says we should ‘feel’ or ‘think’. Try remember though that these are only thoughts in themselves, no matter how believable they seem. It is so easy to fall back into the trap of believing everything your mind tells you but to be honest, it tells us a lot of false information about ourselves. I was given some great advice from Matt about a similar problem with over thinking and metta meditation really is a great way to start taking hold of your thoughts. It is going to take a while for you to be able to do this in situations where anxiety or thinking arises (e.g. a situation that may cause you stress such as confronting an employer or simply speaking to a stranger) but if you can build the strength day by day, like building a muscle, eventually calm to your thoughts will come more quickly. I do hope that you keep your head up and know there are things you can do to help yourself as well as many others out there who can support you. Believe me when I say I sometimes don’t think this is possible but stay strong and have belief in yourself, you’ll get there.

    #49310
    memm
    Participant

    I don’t like all these terms like “GAD” that keep popping up, since when is being human and worrying about things, sometimes excessively, indicative of a condition? I get the feeling slapping labels on things that have for a while been considered normal just makes the people that have those labels slapped on them worse.

    So let’s assume you don’t have GAD or whatever the latest psychological fad is and go with intelligent, analytical and clearly quite philosophical. I too tend to ponder on the nature of things quite often, or on the thoughts that give rise to thoughts etc…

    There’s nothing wrong with doing so; deep thinking, analysing situations, entertaining other points of view and so on. It’s great! It’s insightful! These things gave rise to books, to philosophies, I bet you anything Buddha would have been diagnosed with a whole bunch of mental issues these days. Sitting under a tree and worrying / overanalysing life for days with no food? People in white coats would have taken him away long before he got to reach enlightenment.

    So things you might be able to do is:

    1) Be occupied with something more productive
    2) Be mindful and know when your thoughts are going around in circles (staring at the sky for an hour probably qualifies), sit back and work on just breathing and meditation instead (just not analytical meditation, careful you don’t spend the next week under the sky)
    3) Work at being more calm, just by being more self aware (which you already have to be to analyse deeply) and training your mind to calm down, google monkey mind

    The one thing that helps me now (ironically I got this originally from overthinking things as usual) is that more often you have to do something and then afterwards you have the time to reflect, most things never go according to plan, no matter how good of a planner you are. Even little things never turn out quite as you expect.

    #49323
    lea
    Participant

    Memm…. I think it depends on the severity of anxiety. When it feels like on a daily basis your mind is “cycling” you cannot sit and be at peace and your always stressing about things that havent even come up yet, the term is called anxiety. Its just a term. It is different from just worrying because with anxiety it is considered more of ‘irrational worrying’ because you stress yourself about the unknowns and the what-if instead of living in the moment. As for as labels, they can be a good thing. Everything in the world has a ‘label’ or a name. For example, if your moody or hyper one day it doesnt make you “bipolar”. But there are people with sever symptoms who would require a different diagnosis other than just being “moody” along with proper treatment so that they can function properly. Thats what the study of the mind is all about and where these terms come from. And you actually suggested a lot of the same things that I suggested which is great. Some people just need more help as far as calming the mind, especially if they have been through traumatic situations. That being said I do respect your opinion 🙂

    • This reply was modified 10 years, 11 months ago by lea.
    #49327
    memm
    Participant

    I don’t mean to downplay the issues of people with actual conditions; it’s just getting harder to tell who has one and who is just a victim of the modern trend of labeling first, diagnosing later.

    What you’re describing sounds like a perfect case of anxiously worrying. 😉

    I have an irrational anxiety of talking on the phone, it’s completely irrational and I couldn’t control it up until I talked on the phone more often. You might call it “phone anxiety” off the bat, I would call it not being used to talking on the phone.

    Being anxious can become more of a habit than a disorder, you simply get used to it, much like you can get used to feeling bad about yourself, or keep thinking about the past and it doesn’t help when it’s labeled as an unnatural condition rather than a bad habit.

    #49513
    Alf
    Participant

    Really enjoyed reading that Dan, simply because it’s a perspective I share and have been contemplating too (incidentally my real name’s Dan too lol)

    For my money if I were you I’d start by just following your passions and true desires. A lot easier said than done, but listening to the heart and not the head is something which I’ve found needs to be done in situations like yours.

    #49693
    Terri Lorz
    Participant

    Over-thinking can feel like one is on a mental tread mill. I know my busy brain can exhaust me. I do somethings that help me. One is “stream of consciousness” writing. I noticed you said you felt better writing it out. When I am in the midst of my manic brain tread mill extravaganza – I write. I sit down with my computer and either set a time limit or a page limit and then I write whatever pops into my head. I just write out my stream of consciousness – even if it makes no sense, even if it is off topic.

    As my manic thinking gets put on paper (metaphorical paper) I feel better. I am not sure why but I do. I have made stream of consciousness writing part of my personal emotional health practice and do it most days for either 15 minutes or one page (typed).

    The other I do is to write out a root cause analysis that I created combining the quality improvement tool “5 whys” with David Burns work on cognitive behavioral therapy. Basically I pick anything that is bothering me or I am obsessing over and ask “Why is this bothering me?” I write the answer and then ask the same question about what I just wrote. I do it five times and this gives me plenty of material to see how I am thinking. I then identify my thinking errors – like personalizing, black or white thinking, generalizing, http://psychcentral.com/lib/15-common-cognitive-distortions/0002153 – this site lists them -and then I write out a more healthy way to interpret what I am thinking.

    All of this helps me to develop better thinking habits and calm down. For me, I have to do this on a regular basis or I start to revert back to my manic thinking.

    Good luck. tj

    #50230
    Pamela
    Participant

    Hello Dan,

    I noticed a pattern with your thinking style.You make a statement,

    1.”I want to let go of my mind and enjoy life”,

    then you question that statement more than once,

    “but what if I’m not really interested in the things that I am doing?”
    “What if I’m just fooling myself?”
    “What if I let go of judging my mind and it winds up I am a bad person?”

    2.* I want to be a good person,” (statement),
    then question,
    “but should even worry about that, especially when good and bad are subjective?”
    “Am I just choosing to be around people and do good things because them to have a high image of me because I have low self esteem and need the validation of others for my own personal ego stroking?

    In your post, you express yourself and your feelings clearly and even commented at the end of your post you felt a bit of relief after breaking it all down on paper.A Journal might be a wonderful practice. I’d suggest thinking more and asking different questions in order to create outcomes that are more insightful.
    For example:
    Make a statement,
    I” want to be a good person”.

    After a statement the question to ask is “WHY?”What does “being a good person mean to me?”
    Jot down your answer and for every answer you write down,follow that answer with a “Why, what would that mean to me?”
    “I want to be a good person because (this is just an example) I want people to like me”.

    WHY? WHAT DOES PEOPLE LIKING ME MEAN TO ME?”

    “I want people to like me because , it’s important for people to like me.”
    WHY IS IT IMPORTANT FOR PEOPLE TO LIKE ME?

    Get the idea? Your thoughts are not based on what you really want to discover… For every statement for every question as yourself, “Why, what would that mean to me”
    What you’ll discover is that ALL your statements and questions have to do with one or two central fears or beliefs you hold true about yourself…when you uncover your core fears and beliefs the inner work toward changing those fears and beliefs can begin.

    Give it a try for a week and see what happens to your thoughts when you root out different answers.
    Good Luck!
    Blessings,
    Pamela

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