HomeāForumsāTough Timesāmy story to discover me. advice needed.
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March 18, 2016 at 6:48 am #99358AnonymousGuest
Dear anxiousangel/ Story, Part One:
I will quote every part of your story I believe is very meaningful to my understanding, not including repetitions. And if I have something to say, I will comment on the quote outside the quotation mark (“) In my comments I will include my understanding, right or wrong, of your posts before the story. I will do this for the first part of the story on this post, then the second part of your story, on a following post, and so forth. When done with the story, I will write a Conclusion type post to you. This way I will be studying your story. Please don’t post again until that Conclusion Post.
“there was this 4 year old kidā¦born in a familyā¦oblivious to the outside world…
sent to the best school in townā¦
elated he was as this world seemed beautful and spacious and more comforting..
ā¦home wasnt an inspirational placeā¦with grandpa as the sole earner..” (Home was not beautiful, spacious or comforting, there was distress there and a lot of the expressed distress in the home was about lack of money or money worries)but those summer breaks in village…(the outside world seemed beautiful in comparison to Home and the gap was painfully evident)
…when he was 9, e discovered the presence of appreciation and praise. he waned that praise frm everywhereā¦
…but i guess was nvr hard working
ā¦Being academically sound brought him social acceptance,praise and a proud identity and would say may be branded as hope of the family, a bright child..ha ha (The hope of the family was that he achieves a social and economic status and success which is the highest value in the Home)
… parents of freinds ask those questionsā¦what does your father do??? where do you liveā¦.??..do you own a house or…
(The value of social and economic status and success is not only at Home but outside)
… (unclear to me)…then she gave a condescending and insulting look to the childā¦oh noā¦the child felt devastatedā¦his world of appreciation had taken a hit..(Appreciation is seen exclusively as social and economic status)
he qualified all criteriasā¦of a studentā¦a friend..a good personā¦still society rates you on your backgroundā¦
he lost out and hedecided he wud never lose againā¦for something which isnt his fault…“going to hi fi skool meant richer friends and hi fi frend parentsā¦
but he was never unsure of his coping abilitiesā¦if the competition didnāt entail backgroundā¦ (He lost in the background competition before. But he can’t change background, completely powerless over it, so he copes by lying about the background)
by this time he was in his teenageā¦and the beautiful girl of his dreams some how fell for himā¦life felt blissfulā¦and lost in her eyes..suddenly my self respect grew upā¦she likes MEEā¦ (Maybe the first time for a long, long time when he gets appreciation for Himself, not for his (lied about) background)
but it also had a tinch of egoā¦āif she could fall for meā, anyone canā¦ (The insult of the past lack of appreciation gave birth to an ambition to get more and MORE appreciation…)
wrote letters and poems to each otherā¦he realised thenā¦expressing something feels nice.. (authentically expressing himself)
ā¦ he wworked hard with his love running in backgroundā¦and frends in place..natures forces helped himā¦.and he got it..(Patna)
ā¦mom use to sayā¦bua is richā¦we loved her arrivalā¦she brought clothes and sweetsā¦ and wen she came there was always good food at home.. now here he had to built a new identityā¦(the value at Home, again, money)
being smart he knewā¦.what information can he manage and not spill the beansā¦ a new place meant can form identity from a scratchā¦specially the background
meeting here with the same questionsā¦he was ready this time..my father works in a goods insurance companyā¦NIC.i own a house…
(Lying/ managing information)Next: Story/ part Two
anita
March 18, 2016 at 7:18 am #99361AnonymousGuestStory, Part two:
“girls here also had shown interest in himā¦he loved them allā¦ being two relations in two yrs…(the ambition for more and more appreciation, attention, praise… based on an early lack of such at Home, where appreciation, attention and praise was for money, status… )
is academics suffered the first yrā¦8th standardā¦and he saw the appreciation world melting downā¦
nxt year he…was in an intimate connection with a girl he liked in classā¦(unclear)… somee letters exchanged..
this freaked that girlā¦and he lost her foreverā¦they nvr talked ā¦ (so far he tries to earn appreciation via academics, information management about socio-economic background and girls)
it was 10th boardsā¦(unclear) his papaās suzuki max 100 bike at skool had brought him much remarks and laughs one dayā¦so biking to skool meant borrrowing cha chaās caliber croma bikeā¦
scored gud in 10thā¦ wanted to go to kota for IIT preps (unclear)ā¦ ppl believed in his potentialā¦for him it meant a new worldā¦
reached thr.. settled..formed a group f friendsā¦by the time had brume a real ppl pleaser .. ppl felt entertained around him..so was centre f attractionā¦ (His potential= his value, his worth as a human being is somewhere in the future, always in the future and based on the past: the past he can do nothing about, his family background to which he was born, and the future is in the future, the status he is yet to earn. The attention he got from friends and girls is in the present)
studies were imp..but this new world f freedom and so many characters were writing its own script. (He is writing a script because he can, he has power over the script)
saw a girl from BOMBAY in the class roomā¦March 18, 2016 at 7:32 am #99363AnonymousGuestStory, Part Three:
“ā¦was he TOPPER of the batchā¦ her grace dignity,innocence and her unreacheableness attracted him…he fell for her.
now she was a challenge,an impossible case no boy wood attempt, but he did…studies took a backseatā¦ AJ…R…
…he was feeling guilty he was using her to get closer to AJ. remember he canāt handle adverse opinion… (intense hunger and ambition for appreciation, praise, attention, it is intoxicating)
Out f nowhere R calls and says she has fallen fr him. he is dumbstruck, what to do. (he doesn’t know what to do because he is still searching for his potential worth, it is still there in the future)
…the girls talked and he was thot to b the culprit. both smeared ties from him.
he was yearning fr their attention. both meant the most to him…to gain their attention was to attempt a suicide.
he planned got tablets and ate them and sleptā¦ensuring he wonāt die. remember he 17. (Life&Death management, goes beyond mere information management)
he got their attention, eventually AJ mover on R was back as his girl.
got closerā¦intimate. results f exams cameā¦ did miserably bad..
the suicide attempt and the result broke havoc back home, all hopes were shattered. by family standards a lot was spent on him. …at this point he genuinely loved R. but the was a problem. To woo her,he had played information management on her too.
since she was from BOMBAY and he from BIHAR. he shot she wud judge him…he said his father works in bombay….March 18, 2016 at 7:43 am #99364AnonymousGuestStory, Part Four:
“college admissions beganā¦R…got into IIT DELHI. he got into an NIT after struggles, that too mining egg. branch.
he hoped first yr results would allow a branch change.
separated 2000 kms love was still strong.
But since mining was an odd branch and was kinda looked down upon,he developed discomfort towards it. once u say it, ppl give a initial frown,,, the same frown which they gave about bihar or fatherās profession…
meanwhile…mom had to come live wid her in delhi and dad too…so college ppl knew he is from delhi..so i became a delhi guy at college and carried it fr four years.
in college mining made him feel inferior.
so he did all extra currics…he became the torchbearer of his professed love fr R in college…he was praised…was friendly and popular among guys..and seniors…
out side college if someone asked he wud say his branch was mechanical or civil not mining.
he shot he wud get a placement in software company or do Amba and it wonāt matter afterwards.
info management was on in all directions. but he was having a good time, against all odds not allowing himself to b judged, to b frowned upon his attributes. it took effort but he was ok with it as all worlds were discrete.dad found a small job in mumbai.. R was the too. she insisted on meeting at home. everyone knew R at home. IIT girl.. made me look good. once she cameā¦the flat was rented and nowhere near what i had said it would b like to her years ago. she said nothing, but the mask had started to wear off.
a girl in college bcame a good friend f mine, named S…March 18, 2016 at 7:52 am #99366AnonymousGuestStory, Part Five:
“R was getting lonely at her college. her grades were suffering…we talked a lot. but i cudnt visit her much. distance was a factor. plus i spent a lot on fone,smoking,ferns nightout and allowance from home was limited. i was stressed fr cash always.
a point came wen she was adamant on me visiting her and i hd no money… borrowed generally. at a dark time also stole a friends phone and sold it. i was so close to him, he cud never suspect…he was my best friend.
wen he came back from the trip, he discovered thru chats R was cheating on him wide a guy in college…
he was distraught. felt powerless and hurt. called her, cried a lot…
he made her feel extremely guilty. called some friends to inform about wat she did.
in college he cudnt tell anyone or the ideal love story would get blemished. she was part f his identity…she was down from the pedestal and respect was gone.(The Love story with R in itself was a presentation to the world: see what a loving person I am)
to come out f R TRAUMA, he engaged himself in college elections. he was good at it. convincing, manipulating people straight with his logic. he got praise and appreciation fr ths.
next yr… he became larger than life in elections. he didnāt want any position just the fame that he is the best and is invincible. this bred arrogance, he lost some of his old friends and found new. people branded him oppurtuistic and political. such alllgations come when u become a public figure. he was enjoying the attention and the leadership… love for R was gone and her lifestyle hadnāt changed. S too had come close a lot.
…this was the right time to leave R. he was busy he had a support in S. HE DID IT…
meanwhile S had become his support here. she was an innocent girl, who liked him a lot. even loved him. he faked the love to get all her praise attention and the make out sessions.
he lost in the elections big time. had lost R too, and his friends too. mining tag too was waiting fr him, as placements had arrived. nothing was right.March 18, 2016 at 8:05 am #99368AnonymousGueststory, Part Six:
“but he didnāt break down, here he surprised me. (“he” – a separation between the authentic self and the presented self)
gathered all courage, stayed bak at college and started preps fr mba college.
3 months f solitude,failure made him come in touch wid his spiritual self…(unclear)
regarding R he knew, she was beginning to see thru his mask and he had to get away from her.
The fake love fr S was troubling as she loved him a lot and she was innocent, it was plain selfish. but he needed someone to survive this phase.
he studied fr 3 monthsā¦ got decent score in mocks. his defence was ready…ppl praised him and believed in his potential again. …got placed in a MINING company first day. here was found wanting f courage, family pressure also worked.
…(unclear)…AS end neared S became a serious issue. how to get away from her. he liked her, but ppl had judged her…
somehow he got away from S. she cried and cursed… he used the classic parents not willing, no future argument.
got into his new job in a remote coal field area. his frends went to metros working fr companies. he already despised the mining tag. now not even a city to name as residence.
here blemishes started becoming unhidable…information management started failing. he couldnot put his hometown on (FB)it, as various ppl knew various infos.
in his new job he hated visiting mines and had a very negative attitude towards it. though people loved him personally his reputation at work started suffering. he was covering it up…extra nice behaviour,his social skills…
…money helped to fulfil some desires and helped at home too. he bought a bike not which he liked ride but which was considered stylish…got a weaving fr his hair…self image improved,was able to face the mirror now. the weaving became the personification of his false self, which always had to b hidden…fear of being found out. he was 25.March 18, 2016 at 8:54 am #99371AnonymousGuestStory, part Seven:
“all friends were progressing doing MBA or MS in USA. HE felt left behind.
he wanted a change, one final settlement to the identity question. where no one asks who u are.
IAS is that exam in india… he wanted it for identity,status,recognition and as a stage to express his potential…it helped his image at work as he claimed i m doing IAS so i m not interested in mining career. he had carved a source of praise and appreciation.
he went to delhi fr a year taking leave and studied there. college friend was there, stayed with him and earned his respect as an aspirant. (An aspirant, a potential, one aiming at a goal)
…impressed the teachers and girls. he was getting attention and praise. people believed in his potentialā¦ he exaggerated his job entitlements to impress ppl further. met a girl in class K. she smoked was open minded. got attracted as had nvr seen a girl like this. he was sex starved too since college. he is 26 now…knew only one way to woo a girl, the fake love way.
she confided in him and told him every thing about her…
he failed at the second stage and was back to his job. his goal may hV GOT MISALIGNED TO RATHER IMPRESSING PPL ABOUT HIS WORTH AS A CANDIDATE RATHER THN CLEARING THE EXAM.
back at job, ppl praised and encouraged him… conduit deliver.
he was ready to try again. this was the only hope. he started. meanwhile K fell fr another guy and dumped him…he had ended his relationships always not the girl. it hurt his ego badly. he suffered in pain, hated her, even clinger on to her. but she had moved on and he was suffering,
but exam too demanded attention. this time he was lonely, no friends,girl attention and increased pressure. he tried fr girl attention but didnāt get anyā¦. he was now burning from insideā¦as the was no body to praise him or love him..his self worth dashed. but he was trying despite all odds. still got in the act of impressing fellow students and new teacher that wat a special talent he is, and again everybody believed in him.March 18, 2016 at 8:59 am #99372AnonymousGuestStory, Part Eight:
“but he failed at the second stage again. hopes were dashed at home.
he handled it well. a lot of spiritual reading and meditation camp had helped.
now ppl started mocking behind his back at office. his successive failures had weakened his defence infant of his friends and he was nowhere in comparison. all average ppl were in the cool jobs and he was in the coal mine. plans of marriage were also on hold as exam was a priority.the story is this the context.
now there is a pattern of judging oneself, hiding blemishes and projecting a likeable self. its a planned and managed act. it takes a lot of effort.
point is need for peopleās attention and love makes him do all these things. he gets what he really wants and doesnāt care about others in that process.
so there is something fundamentally wrong with this way of living..
it has cost him his love,friends,career and the exam too.
his strengths are logics,arguments,convincing skills,presentation,people pleaser,entertainer and ability to see things from palās point of view.also spiritual interest.
his weakness lack of acceptance of self,lack of courage to b honest,bit lazy, over analyser and weak implementer etc.”March 18, 2016 at 9:25 am #99376AnonymousGuestDear anxiousangel:
As I am reading the posts on this page 4 of the thread, I find my notes in parentheses mostly incorrect. I see that what I understood before was very limited. I am still wondering about the effectiveness of this exercise of mine, the work I am doing here, don’t know if it is leading anywhere at all that may be useful to you. But I keep going. Need to take a break from your story so to get some distance for things to settle. Please don’t post until my Conclusion post later on (it would be too much for me and I need to process what I have here as is).
anita
March 18, 2016 at 10:34 am #99388AnonymousGuestDear anxiousangel:
I am ready with something. We can communicate about this something I am yet to articulate. In the suggested communication, if you want to refer to a particular part of your story, it will be helpful to me if you refer to Story 1, 2 all the way to 8, so I can look at the particular story number so to follow your point.
You asked at the end of your Story Post:
1. should he continue with IAS as his goal..or first figure out does he really want it or wants to fix the identity problem with this. (his laziness or fear of 3rd failure ,hardwork might b driving this argument)
2. should he get married(arranged) ?? he seeks a partner who is ideal and thot social status after exam would get him one. but now he feels alone but is not ready to b wid a person he would judge on something undesirable.3. should he find his authentic self and live according to its inner needs and desires.(this would mean a complete leap of faith and time is running out)
4. should he confide in close friends and family around.5. should he join the presentation industry as that is what he has done all his life.
6. is he a bad person7. is his ego the problem..
8. what could b done.Here is what I have at this point, my analysis at this point. I will write it as if it is a certainty, but it is here for your examination and evaluation:
You are a salesman and a very good one, a marketer, selling and marketing a product. Every time you notice or detect a product, you rush to sell it, rush to market it. Only no one is developing the product: very little to no product development takes place.
The reward for your marketing is positive attention, positive appreciation, praise… people looking up to you, admiring you, thinking well of you. The reward is as close to being loved as you can get.
The product is anything about you once detected for bringing about that reward: lying about your background brings the reward: market it. Studying at school brings you the reward- study well! Riding the right bike- ride it!Loving a girl- make it an admirable love story! Loved by a girl- make it two girls loving you! A certificate will get you the reward- get the certificate! Taking a leadership position will get you the reward- get the position.
And so you detect, do and market! So far, business as usual. Problem is: little to no product development. You sell too soon, market too soon and crash. Because the product is not well developed. You stated you are not hard working. I agree in that you don’t work hard to develop what you are rushing to sell.
You sell as soon as you detect a product about yourself: your ability to study, your ability to attract a woman…
detect-> sell.As the business man that you have been, being the salesman that you are, your business is failing because none of the products you are trying to sell is well developed. All of your products die at their infancy.
As to your questions: a general answer to the first few questions is: choose a product and develop it. This time, stay with the product and see it through. Develop it authentically. Just one product to start with, or two (one professional and one personal). Maybe the product you want to develop is a new one: telling the truth about your socio economic family background.
Professionally, choose one and stick to it… and personally choose one woman and stick to just that one.
What do you think? To refer to your story, please refer to Story #.
I see this correspondence with you as ongoing based on these story parts. Till your next post to me, take care:
anita
March 18, 2016 at 11:05 am #99394anxiousangelParticipanthi anita
first of all
load of thanks for showing the patience fr going thru such a long story and dissecting it beautifully. u r an epitome of patience. thanks a lot. really.
u r spot right in concluding ..i m a salesman…a compulsive one..even in life..
but life can’t b lived this way. here s i want to end this loop. live authentically,love authentically.
but the need fr attention,appreciation and love runs deep. it makes me sell myself. whats the remedy to live in alignment with true self.it an ego driven,identity based life. but that is hw the world works, where every one is judging the other. rewards depend on them, say friends,second date,jobs and respect. so i went fr this game, but now i want a change. definately.
all people engage in this self presentation as society socialises us in perfect roles and ideals. my problem is it has become centre of my life. nothing matters except the image, no feelings,emotions or desires.
one more think this need fr appreciation and praise,,,is this a need f my authentic self…or lack of self worth which needs validation.
March 18, 2016 at 11:16 am #99400anxiousangelParticipantalso story 7..
he compares with ppl, and feels the need to b at par with them. judges his career as inferior, wants an identity and profession thats respected.
the choice needs to b an authentic one. if this is the product i need to develop. since he has always been a sales man. does he need to choose a career based with high social interaction component. i have dreamt of being a motivational speaker, as its all about make believe, no product to develop there. but this field needs credibility..u need to b someone then people will listen to u. so its not possible.
suggest me a career product which aligns with my inner strength and which will bring fulfillment in my life. a work i consider of great value, which will also bring its rewards in appreciation. am i an artist from inside.
just need ur take on these.
thanks again
March 18, 2016 at 11:41 am #99407AnonymousGuestDear anxiousangel:
You wrote above (post before last): “nothing matters except the image”- this is what salesmanship is about: it is all image, all the potential buyer’s perception. Authenticity of product is irrelevant. All that matters is image. This is how politicians sell themselves. Products are people too. I would like you to no longer be a product. Or a source of products to be sold.
Take yourself out of the marketing world for a while. For always, even better. Quit marketing. Quit selling completely.
Switch to “product development” but not for the sake of selling. That is, switch to authenticity.
Where to start? Right where you are, in the very circumstances of your daily life. No longer aim at a goal out there, in the future. Aim at living differently now, here and now where you are. Do things differently. Why not tell people the truth when you once lied. Why not? You have nothing to lose and everything to gain.
Without authenticity, the truth, all the praise in the world is worthless because… all that praise is not for you. The praise, the reward all this time was for the marketed product, for the image, not for you. You were hidden.
So reveal yourself, today, in your life outside this forum, in person.
anita
March 18, 2016 at 8:59 pm #99468AnonymousGuestDear anxiousangel:
I will review story 1-8 in the next couple of days so to get more out of it and will write to you then, unless you ask me not to. What I wrote above was what came to me spontaneously way earlier today. I may have been a bit impatient in my delivery of the product development vs marketing/ salesmanship idea.
Anyway, hope you are well. I think this is an emotional time for you and I do hope you become authentically you. I commend you for aiming at authenticity.
anita
March 19, 2016 at 11:27 am #99495AnonymousGuestDear anxiousangel:
I re-read Story 1-8. I feel at some peace at this point about understanding what is going on. Through our correspondence there has been an evolution of my understanding. What I understand this morning, I did not understand before. I will refer to you as “Angel” in my writing. Here is my understanding:
What you got from your original home of your childhood is not that you are valuable, worthy, loving and lovable. What you got is an understanding that having money is very important and very desirable. You were sent to an elite school for that purpose: to become one with money and share it with your family.
Next, when you were asked about your background, answered and received that frown, that disapproval, it was imprinted in you very strongly that is that lack of acceptable social status hurts, a lot. You decided to “Never Lose Again”, never get that frown again and instead get praise and recognition.
It became okay to lie about your background: lying was a mean to an end, the end being to not get hurt. You proceeded later to call it “information management” as euphemism, making it an okay business-like strategy, and so Enterprise Angel was born.
The aim devolved from seeking praise and recognition to seeking power-over-people. Means justified the end. It became okay not only to lie, but to manipulate others (suicide gesture, R/AJ, College Elections where people referred to you as “political’ and an “opportunist”), to use people, to mislead people, and even to steal from your best friend.
All means justify the end.Everything became a means to an end: your social skills, sexuality, spirituality… all means to the same end: power-over others.
The end is power. When one girl liked you, you thought: I can get more girls to like me.
Your successes intoxicated you. Feeling invincible, “larger than life” was intoxicating. You wanted more and more, more praise, more attention, more power. You wanted invincibility. That younger Angel that got the frown, through no fault of his own (father’s profession, social status) will never …lose again. And it doesn’t matter what it takes, who it hurts: Angel will not lose again. Not only Angel will not lose again, Angel will win, big time.
You figured: this is how the world works: it is all perception and I will make it work for me. I will not lose.
Only you lost: your “average friends” got better jobs than you, working in the city while you are stuck at a lesser job, in a place you don’t like. Your successes were short lived.
So here you are. In your latest post, you asked about what career should you develop, maybe be a motivational speaker because no product is needed. As a motivational speaker, all you will need to do is speak and use your logic skills and people skills that you believe are superior.
I don’t have success in that search for power-over that you had sought. So I have nothing to offer you in that regard. I believe that there are a lot of people in the search for power where all means justify the end, so you have a great competition. And people who are very skilled and successful at it, I don’t think would be willing to teach you how they do it: why would they…
People who have been very successful at this aim, end, I think that two of them are running for the position of being the next U.S.A president as I type this. One is Donald Trump. All of his power, fame and wealth, before running for president was not satisfactory for him. He wanted more. Just like when one girl liked you and you thought: if I got her to like me, I can get more girls to like me, the same thinking is here: I am a billionaire and everyone knows my name (Trump), hey, maybe I can be president of the U.S!
The second person is Hillary Clinton. She spent 8 years in the white house and however many years in the government but that is not enough: she wants another 4 years in the white house. Maybe 8.
I wonder, when Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton lie in their beds at night (separately), when the lights are turned off and they feel old age pain here and there and knowing there is no power in the world to prevent them from getting sick and dying… where do they find their comfort?
But I digress, or not.
I will continue only if I get a thoughtful response from you about what I wrote here, in this post. At that point, we can continue our discussion. This is a very interesting correspondence, one that occupied hours of my time and attention so far.
anita
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