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October 26, 2016 at 8:21 am #118952AnonymousGuest
Dear Shipp:
Thank you for sharing such personal details. I am glad you did. I did have to take a break while reading, not easy. But I am back.
Regarding the change in your mother’s personality following her stroke. It seems to be quite common for an aggressive person to lose all of one’s aggression following a stroke, a brain tumor, an injury to the brain.
Regarding your love for your mother: a child loves her mother no matter who the mother is. Actually, the more cruel and aggressive the mother is, the stronger the attachment of the child to the mother. Not because the child is attracted to pain, but because the more in-pain the child, the more the child needs comfort.
So there is the mother, the source of pain, but also, at times, the source of comfort. I live in a wooded area and often see deer. When a fawn follows her mother into the woods, she follows because she is motivated by the emotion of Attachment (what we call love). Now imagine this scenario (that does not happen in nature)- the mother deer turns around and bites the fawn, the fawn bleeding. Does the fawn, having been beaten, bleeding, does she turn away from the mother, stop following her? no, the fawn is MORE in need of her mother now, that she is injured, more in need for protection and being fed, having been compromised by the injury. So the fawn keeps following, the mother turns around once in a while and bites the fawn. The fawn grows up to adult size, but so injured, it keeps following the mother.
When you feel that attachment, that love for your mother, it is that same attachment in nature, passed on to us through millions of years of evolution. We follow, and when injured we follow more intensely and way into adulthood.
Till your next post, take care of yourself.
anita
October 26, 2016 at 10:08 am #118961ShippParticipantDear VJ,
Its good to hear from you again! Thank you for your kind words and sharing.
I started exploring the law of karma, past lives and similar studies a few years ago. Basically, as you mentioned, I wanted to understand what I could have done previously to bring about many of the events in this lifetime. I must admit that until I read your words, I completely missed the fact that I possibly treated her very badly. I also believe that when a soul has completed their life’s journey they will move out of this life. I missed applying this belief to my mother’s life as well (once she found peace within herself for her own life, and our debt was paid to each other, she would pass). I think this new perspective will help me deal with the upcoming months differently this year.
I will definitely find the book that you recommended on Amazon. It already interests me just from what you’ve shared.
I appreciate your insights and wisdom that you share very much! I would like to hear more of your thoughts, things that you have learned or information that you would like to share.
I’ve heard “when the student is ready, the teacher will appear”. I think that I’m finally ready to learn and understand and that Tiny Buddha site is providing some wonderful teachers to help me to discovery.
Best regards,
~Shipp
October 26, 2016 at 10:49 am #118963ShippParticipantDear anita,
I had a whole post typed out to you but when I clicked ‘submit’, Internet failure lost it all (so this is the short version).
Your example makes sense to me. It’s similar to the cycle that I experience with Daddy. It’s also the reason that I’ve decided to let go of trying to have a relationship with him. He’s happy with his life and I’m tried of putting myself through the cycle, so I’m letting go.
The advise you and VJ shared has shifted my perspective on many aspects of my relationship with my mother. I have some soul searching to do today.
Hopefully, I’ll be back again this evening.
Best regards,
~Shipp
P.S. Do you mind if I ask why you prefer the small a? Just something I’ve been curious about but keep forgetting to ask about.
October 26, 2016 at 11:30 am #118967AnonymousGuestDear Shipp:
I know the experience of losing posts. I do hope these November/ December will be easier for you this year. I hope that posting here during these months will help you. I also think that not seeing your father is a good idea for you. Please do take care of your health, physical, mental, as your first priority.
Regarding the a in my name, for one thing, it is easier for me to type a than it is to type A. And then, it seems nicer to have an a at the beginning of my name and at the end. Just like this:
anita
October 27, 2016 at 9:28 am #119024AnonymousGuestDear Shipp:
I was up last night, thinking about the horrible abuse you went through, which you described in your post yesterday, and decided, last night, to write you more. What you described is dreadful and I feel so very sorry for the child that you were and for that child that is still you. The fear, the shock, the misery you felt must have been extreme.
My mother too, in her violent rages against me, went from suicidal (a whole lot of the time) to homicidal. And of course, she always blamed me. According to her, she was simply reacting to my badness, the way… any good mother would react to a bad, ungrateful, evil-intentioned, defected, inferior, etc., … daughter. According to her, I was the one hurting her. I can share more, and just did, but I want my post to be more about you.
In a previous post on this thread, you wrote: “When I chose my career, I chose the legal field because I have a hypersensitive sense of justice and what is fair…”
We often do try to make our childhood abuse just and fair. To realize that it wasn’t fair or just, that we were truly helpless, needy, loving, lovable trusting victims of the person we loved so desperately- this realization is … hard to take in, to endure.
You wrote in yesterday’s post: “I never understood why my existence made her life so unbearable” I believe that an abusive parent is abusive because she/ he was abused and so they carry a rage within that they need to express and get a relief, so they express it. Only the relief is temporary. Why did she choose you and not your sister? Could be anything; maybe something in your face resembled her abuser and triggered her. Nothing more. Your sister, I suppose, was her proof that indeed you were the cause.
If a stranger appeared at your door and did what your mother did, the gun, the violence, after the stranger left, you would have no problem calling the police, wouldn’t you? See to it that he or she goes to jail? It is obviously unjust and unfair. If a stranger did what your mother did to a child, it would be maybe a bit more cruel, wouldn’t it? When it is one’s mother doing this to her own child, it is even more cruel because the child trusts and loves the mother.
Back to the need for life to be fair and just. We make believe certain things to… twist reality to a fair-and-just version. Examples of such versions: the abuser will be punished in hell, there will be justice THEN. Or, I will go to heaven; there will be justice THEN. Or: the abuser was giving me the abuse I deserved for what my soul’s former body did to the abuser’s soul’s former body, and therefore my abuse WAS fair after all.
Reality is, the innocence, the trust and the love of a child was brutally violated. It wasn’t fair and it wasn’t just. The abuser was most likely abused when she was a child. And she reacted to her abuse of the past. But here is a key point: in between the rages of the abuser, how is it that the abuser didn’t, in a calm moment, regret the abuse and does something to protect the child from herself? As the abuser sees the damage she inflicted, in a calm moment, why did she not say out loud: “I did wrong to you! It is not your fault! I must stop!?
anita
October 28, 2016 at 12:15 am #119078ShippParticipantDear anita,
I was surprised and touched by your response. Surprised to find out just how closely our situations resemble each other and touched by your kind words. Reading it was ‘bittersweet’ because as much as I hate someone else going through what I did, I know that you truly understand.You wrote “My mother too, in her violent rages against me, went from suicidal (a whole lot of the time) to homicidal. And of course, she always blamed me. According to her, she was simply reacting to my badness, the way… any good mother would react to a bad, ungrateful, evil-intentioned, defected, inferior, etc., … daughter. ” Later in life, Were you able to get answers as to why, what caused her to be that way, etc?
About “sense of justice and fairness”, I became a paralegal because I wanted to help uphold the law and I worked with the guardian ad litem program to be a child’s voice in court. Originally, I wanted to be a police officer but (1) I had too many anger issues and (2) I can’t see a gun anywhere near me without going into a full anxiety attack. But, I wanted to do something to stand up for kids who couldn’t defend themselves (or like in my situation, couldn’t tell family or a teacher … we were forced to lie to cover up momma’s behavior).
I do want to write more But I need to give myself more time to put together my thoughts. I will post again tomorrow/today, later.
Best regards,
~shipp
October 28, 2016 at 7:37 am #119084AnonymousGuestDear Shipp:
I feel closeness with you for the reasons you indicated in your first paragraph above.
You wrote: “Later in life, Were you able to get answers as to why, what caused her to be that way, etc?” I tried to understand decades ago, and I still do. Only yesterday (!) did I get a better understanding than ever before. I understand better by paying attention to (being mindful of) how my brain works.
This is what I learned yesterday: it is a compulsion. I am compelled myself to abuse myself- see, my mother has a mental representative in my brain that continues her work. That part is compelled to harass me throughout the day, to scare me, to blame me, to pronounce me Wrong any chance it gets.
That part of me … really wants to do that. So I figured, she really wanted to do what she did: she was DRIVEN to do it, compelled. It is possible not to give in to that compulsion, to that drive, but it is uncomfortable. It simply feels better to give in to it.
My mother told me once and only once: “You think I don’t know that what I am doing is wrong? I know. But what are you going to do? You can’t have another mother. You have no choice!” She also told me at another time: “You think I am stupid? You think you can get me in trouble? I am careful, I know not to leave a mark or break bones. I am not stupid!”
She didn’t perceive a bad consequence for her, so she operated in much the same way people will break the laws if there is no one enforcing them.
Till your next post, take care:
anita
October 29, 2016 at 9:57 am #119142ShippParticipantDear anita,
Our posts are really helping me to sort things out. I see something that you have said and I’m able to see a situation explained (where I’ve not been able to find the rights words to explain what happened or how I feel/felt). Also, when I am able to put into words what I’m trying to explain, even if I do it poorly, I know that you’ll get it. By posting here, I actually have to analysize and sort it out in my head before I can write it out here.
I too have what I call ‘recordings’ in my head (because I hear it in her voice just like she’s beside me talking, yet fainter) of her rules. Both my parents were extremely strict and had rules for how I should act. Most of the rules where based on being “a proper, well-bred young lady”. For example “a lady walks, never runs”. I was a kid and all of my friends were running around outside and playing but I had to stay inside and play dolls quietly (by the way, another rule was “children are to be seen and not heard” which meant always speaking quietly). When I got older and in school had gym class, I hated it!! We were supposed to learn to play sports (which requires running) like baseball or basketball, as part of the class. I was so torn up because I didn’t know how to play basketball ‘like a lady’ and not run down the court, like the teacher was trying to get me to do, while my classmates are yelling at me to throw the ball. I felt so much conflicted pressure and panicked and froze, not knowing what to do. Even now, anytime I am faced with a situation where running would be more efficient, or more fun, I still lag behind and walk because I’ve got her in my head saying not to. This is just one example of the rules, but for just about any personal behavior or social situation, there were these rules.
Now, there are the other set of recordings. Her voice combines with the ex husband’s and the ex in-laws and sounds something like “you’re so lazy, worthless, cruel, only think of yourself, stupid, weak” and the list goes on. I think this is the reason why I don’t see myself as having value. Some people have the view of “all people have value and worth because they are God’s creation” .. nope, I don’t see it that way. I don’t think I will ever be convinced that I mattered simply because I drew breath. For me, value has to be from an external source (something you do or are), something one has to work at or earn. This is just how I see life and the world.
I too was aware that momma was careful not to leave visible marks outside clothed areas (except the time that she bit my sisters face…but she made her put on makeup to cover the bruise). We were also told exactly what lies to say, should teachers or grandparents see any marks and ask what happened. Unlike your mom, who acknowledged that she was doing something wrong, momma never did. In her explanation, “look at what you made me do” or “if you had done what I told you to, how I told you to, none of this would have happened” or “you brought this on yourself “… it was always because we deserved it.
Since I first wrote “I don’t know what it was about my existence that made her so miserable“, I’ve been thinking about it. Something that may have made me different from my sister is: I was born in February during the largest snow storm in the recorded history of our county. It took 2.5 hours to get her to the hospital by ambulance (daddy and granddaddy couldn’t get a car dig out to take her to the hospital). If I remember correctly, she was only 20 – 21 at the time so it must have been a traumatic experience for her being in full labor like that. The other part that makes me different is that the winters that I turned 1, 2 and 3, I had to be hospitalized, in the pediatric ICU for weeks in an oxygen tent, for pneumonia. Again, for a young mother, it must have been extremely stressful, emotional and tiring. For her, she probably viewed me as weak, and causing her many problems in her life; the “hell that I put her through”. My sister was born in June and was always meek and “go along to get along” and healthy. I wonder if this had any cause in my being the one to draw the bulk of momma’s wrath and rage. I wonder if she harbored resentment all those years because the traumatic start to my existence. She never forgave me for what I put her through. If my theory is true, it would at least give me some peace because it’s something like makes logical sense to me (at least I would have an answer to WHY).
I’m not trying to make excuses for anything that she did. I think I’m just trying to look at what might have been factors in the result. For example, when she got sick, in her 40s, we found out that she was bipolar and she began medical treatment for it. Looking back, with the known facts about person who are bipolar, I could then see the behavior patterns or mood swings that she went through earlier in life and then understand why she felt out of control during these cycles.
I look forward to your perspective and any thoughts you’d like to add.
Take care & best regards,
~Shipp
October 29, 2016 at 10:31 am #119143AnonymousGuestDear Shipp (Post # 1, want to keep issues separate):
Very interesting for me, to read your possible explanation as to why your mother picked you and not your sister, as her main rage-target. My mother was 20 when she had me (her main rage-target) and 26 when she had my sister. Giving birth to me was traumatic to her because during her pregnancy with me she was underweight and I was a bridge baby and the doctors cut her parts to get me out unharmed. She told the story many times, how a group of doctors gathered to observe the unusual birth, how ashamed she was to be observed, how painful it was.
She was of normal weight when pregnant with my sister and the birth was normal.
And another similarity: as a baby I was repeatedly sick and spent a few months in an isolation ward in a hospital following dysentery. Not the case with my sister.
anita
October 29, 2016 at 10:43 am #119144AnonymousGuestDear Shipp (Post # 2):
Regarding her teaching you how a proper lady should behave, to not run, for one. I am supposing she, your mother, did not run herself, behaving herself like a proper lady? Did she consider herself a proper lady because she walked and did not run… maybe used proper table manners. Maybe she dressed like a proper lady?
But notice this, you wrote in the previous post, the one that was so difficult for me to read:
* “This woman beat me with belts…and wire coat hangers
* “she threw pots, pans and glass dishes at me
* “she even put the barrel of her gun…
* (she said) “too stupid, clumsy, lazy, worthless”These four things are not lady-like, not proper lady behaviors.
You used the adjective “strict” to describe her behavior. I think that “strict” is an adjective that belongs to a respectful but strict parent. Your mother, like mine, was not strict. She was abusive.
anita
October 29, 2016 at 10:50 am #119145AnonymousGuestDear Shipp (post # 3):
My mother made that comment only once, about being wrong, and there was no apology in it. It was her thinking out loud. Every other time, according to her, it was my fault.
After all these years, I figure my mother had a combination of personality disorders. My mother though was not born with a mental defect rendering her a future abusive mother. She was abused herself, terribly. She carried with her rage and a compulsion to express her rage, to have- this time- power over me, to be the powerful one, an obviously intoxicating experience, lasting only a short time and so needed to be repeated.
anita
October 29, 2016 at 12:15 pm #119146AnonymousGuestDear Shipp (Post # 4 and last one following your last post):
You wrote, regarding human value: ” I don’t think I will ever be convinced that I mattered simply because I drew breath. For me, value has to be from an external source (something you do or are), something one has to work at or earn.”
I think you matter because you were born loving, loving your mother unconditionally. It is the loving nature of a child that makes the child worthy, not the mere breathing.
But the child doesn’t know her worth unless her love is returned by the mother. Unless the mother communicates to her: I love you too.
The child should not earn the mother’s love- the love to the child should be unconditional. Unfortunately, too often it is the child who loves the mother unconditionally, not the other way around.
I daydreamed about being rich-and-famous because I imagined that was the only way I could earn her love. I desired more than anything to earn her love because … well, because it wasn’t there.
anita
November 2, 2016 at 1:40 am #119408ShippParticipantDear anita,
When I read your responses separately, the idea came to mind of “the perfect storm”. I wonder if the circumstances came together for our mothers to make them into who they were. Their own abusive childhoods, being so young with sickly children, their frustration of their own lives, etc. Were the circumstances for their lashing out. The similarities between the two are remarkable.
I’m really learning a lot about myself while examining my early years and my mother’s life experiences. This process has brought me a sense of peace that I haven’t been able to find previously. I think the more that I am able to get a glimpse of “her side ” about why things happened, the more peace I have.
I will try to get online tomorrow and write more. It’s been a trying day for me. I’ll explain later.
~Shipp
November 2, 2016 at 9:18 am #119428AnonymousGuestDear Shipp:
Please tell me more about your “sense of peace” of late- what are the thoughts involved?
Hope you are well (regarding your trying day)?
anita
November 2, 2016 at 3:06 pm #119456ShippParticipantDear anita,
I think, when you spend a lifetime seeing only the surface of someone, you internalize everything..its all about how you feel and what happened to you. I think that finally being able to see my mother as a person, with her own struggles and flaws, gives me a sense of peace because I start to see that it wasn’t me (I wasn’t so terrible that I was unlovable, I was just the child of someone who couldn’t handle their own life and I was used as the scapegoat.. someone to blame when the day goes wrong but you can’t lash out at the boss or co-workers, so you come home and explode at the first thing that goes wrong… I think it’s called “kick the dog syndrome “). I guess I have this happy little song in my head saying “it wasn’t me, it wasn’t me, woohooo, it wasn’t me!”. All these years, I’ve struggled with how to forgive myself for being (insert all of the things she called me here) but I realize that I don’t need to forgive myself for something that isn’t true. For example, if someone accused me of procrastination, I would squirm because I know this to be true about myself but if someone accused me of being vane, I’d shrug it off because I know that is completely not true. I suppose have started to be able to accept what was true of my childhood and let the things that are not true drop away.
I think that being able to see her as a person (instead of just Momma) helps me because I can start to forgive the person (not the actions and behavior). I can see her as a person who needed help; she needed professional therapy and medication. I think that if she had gotten both, my growing up would have been different. She was not a bad person, she just did bad actions. There is a difference in my opinion.
On a side note, I know that my replies have been farther apart and a bit distracted this past week. My husband has just been diagnosed with Parkinsons and he’s already in stage 2 of progression. We met with the neurologist yesterday and have medical tests coming soon. I’ve been researching as much as I can about his condition and what to expect as things progress. His parents both have passed away but his brother is 12 years older and helped raise him. He wants to go see his brother so I’m making the arrangements for us to go for an extended visited (possibly next week after the house closing).
I usually don’t get the opportunity to get online until around 2am, when everyone else has retired for the night. Hopefully I’ll be able to get back online again later tonight and post more.
Take care and I look forward to talking with you again soon.
~Shipp
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