HomeāForumsāRelationshipsāMy husband is not self aware
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August 6, 2013 at 2:47 pm #39859SassypantsParticipant
“If you are insisting on ātruthā what youāre really doing is clinging to your side of thingsā¦ seeing your view as True and his as False. This is not what is real. What is True is that you have views and he has views, and the coming together of those views is True, but the content of those views are both only subjectivity true. Said differently, what youāre seeing is not True, its just what youāre seeing. If what you were seeing was ultimate truth, the end all be all of deep seeing and clear comprehension, there would be no struggle, no problem, no separation between you and himā¦just breathing in compassion and breathing out kindness.”
Thank you Matt! This is why my last relationship failed! Our truths were different and I was always the one at fault from his truth. It’s reassuring to know I wasn’t always to blame as I began to second guess myself. I presume that happens when you have someone repeat over and over to you that you’re truth isn’t real and there’s is. Thanks for putting it into perspective for me.
Di, I hope it sheds some light on the situation for you too!
August 6, 2013 at 6:45 pm #39863DiParticipantDonna,
Yes, I seem to cycle between knowing how to stay on my path, and frustrated about not being able to affect the world around me.Each time this happens, I have gone back to reading (and a wonderful muse suggests the perfect thing) and then I feel stronger. The falls in between are deep. I will be sleepless for days, unable to sit still, or seemingly to turn “off” my brain \ thoughts. Fixing, thinking, assuming. It’s like a monster in my head at times. I write. I read. I wait for it to pass.
I use my energy to avoid making huge life changes. There is something “there” i need to learn, and eventually I discover what. Then my thoughts settle down. I’ve always had this tendency, a work problem, a relationship issue. But never this intense.I am now starting to do guided meditations, it is a beginning. Hopefully this will help me to stay more focused on what I’m doing. Practice helps?
I have a thought to write out all my dreams, wishes, notions.
And try to subjectively ask if they are judgements, beliefs, or an attempt to control another.
I’m a bit afraid to do it, as I think I will find that it all is.So maybe just one this week. To start.
August 8, 2013 at 9:32 am #39966DonnaParticipantDi, I feel you. Especially about the monster in my head. What I realized this morning is that I am spending way to much time mind-screwing myself. Rather that judging, worrying, yearning…I need to focus on myself. Open my heart to the present moment. That is where I will find peace, love, joy, contentment, security and connection. I hate the uncertainty, the unknowing but the only way I am going to make good choices is to stay present.
I believe I need to allow this transformation to happen and stop worrying so much about where I will end up. I just need to trust in the universe and most importantly–trust myself. I know that if I believe in myself and stay true to myself, I am going to go in the right direction. I need to trust that I am an intelligent woman who is capable of creating a great future for herself and capable of whatever happens along the way.
Uncertainty of what is going to happen next terrifies me but I think my biggest lesson may be to learn to live with tension and be able to comfort myself. Not to fear the unknown.
I, too, have been reading, meditating, doing yoga, really taking care of myself. Writing has really helped me immensely as well.
I hope we can stay in touch.
Matt, again, you have great insights! thanks!
August 10, 2013 at 7:55 pm #40164DiParticipantYesterday, I had some interesting theories \ thoughts. Almost like a detachment, but it started as kinda “naming” my monster. It’s a troll. And trolls live under bridges. Which lead me to envision marriage as an object. Not me personally. Not my husband personally.
Think of marriage like an object. Bound by legal terms. Not easily dissolved. It is something that is shared between the two of you, but is not you, or him. You each bring your own personal selves to the marriage, like meeting on a bridge that connects you together.
There are actions we each take to nurture the object (marriage). Like a bridge.. it needs maintenance, tending. Sometimes it just needs to be observed, enjoyed. It can be left unattended for periods of time, but long term neglect will result in decay, destruction, and it will fall apart.
Sometimes we cross the bridge, to the other side. And forget that our own side of the bridge is not being looked after. That is why it seems so one-sided, and one feels like they are doing all of the work, in the marriage.
They are trying to fix the other person’s side of the bridge, and make it look just like their side does. And using all their energy. Meanwhile, their own side of the bridge is laying neglected.
Both sides bring valuable structure to the bridge. Together, it makes up a whole. But if my side is laying neglected, what am I bringing to the whole?
In fact, if I don’t take care of my side, the bridge will fall apart, after awhile. Which side of the bridge am I on?
Then I got to thinking yup, I crossed the bridge to his side. And the troll got out. Ego. Sometimes my mind puts these things into subjective perspectives š
Now, when I stand back on my side, and look at his side of the bridge, well I don’t know WHY I wanted to change it! It has it’s own charm, and beauty. If I leave it alone, he will design it to reflect him. Which is what I want. The real authentic him that is inside. The more I interfere, the less it will be him.
I’ve been writing a LOT these past few days. “) And sleeping very wonderfully.
August 10, 2013 at 10:08 pm #40169MattParticipantSadhu sadhu sadhu!
August 26, 2013 at 3:12 pm #41214DiParticipantAn update of sorts.
I find myself, lately, simply “not reacting” to things.
Instead of anger, or wanting to control, I must admit I feel rather numb and not connected to the relationship.
To be honest, it is a feeling of “drama” that is not worthy of my attention.It’s not even worth having emotions about the things he wants to argue about. It takes patience to listen to it, and it wears me out. That’s all.
By this I mean…. he may assume incorrectly, make statements implying how I feel on my behalf, “borrow” others values (treat others as badly as they treat you instead of having your own values to follow) and lets his emotions lead him to decisions based on these assumptions.I find myself “not” feeling. I listen. I ask myself if it’s true, not true, or questionable. I ask myself what my values and my heart tell me to do. I follow that.
I am not interested in much beyond that. Empathy, at times. But no anger, or desire to “correct it”. Not concerned about making my side of the story known. IT doesn’t matter, anymore. It just all seems to drama based on ego.I’m not certain if this is healthy? Normal?
August 26, 2013 at 4:45 pm #41217MattParticipantDi,
It sounds to me like you have some detachment, which is great! Its fine to be a little numb, because it helps to not get caught into the drama. As long as the numbness isn’t leaking out into other connections, which could be falling into nihilism. Its one thing to see the drama and not get caught in it, and its another to feel it doesn’t matter. His patterns are painful for him, and compassion is the willingness to feel empathy for our suffering brothers and sisters.
However, when we’re first detaching from unhealthy drama, its normal and usual to notice an absence of allure to get sucked in. “Why do you do that to yourself?” and we turn away. It might help to do some metta practice with him as the target, because numbness feels more icky than kindness, though either is better than getting caught in it. Either way, follow your heart, it knows. Namaste.
With warmth,
MattAugust 27, 2013 at 6:47 pm #41313DiParticipantThank you, Matt.
Overall, I feel.. peaceful. Happy. I sing to music. I laugh more. Work stress is easily managed. Solutions are easier. Great ideas are common.
My husband likes to listen to the Garbage Truck, his version of trying to blow off emotions of others. He has tried some meditations. Overall, he is feeling more anxious, not sleeping, forgetting things, and his general “ability” to have serious conversations is greatly compromised.
Breeze through the nonsense if you can…
An example would be… I told him a few times (3, I think) that I needed to take my son to the dr. last Saturday, and run a few errands. I had told him a few times as he kept asking me “what are the plans for Sat”. He kept telling me on Friday that he might \ maybe have plans with a friend on Sat, going out of town. When I asked him when he planned on getting home, he got upset. He “assumed” that I was making a fuss because he was going out and I was “implying” that he was going to be drinking.
Silly ridiculous fight about it. He refused to talk to me for a few hours after that. Sigh. I tried to tell him that I asked because I needed to know if I should change my plans to look after the dogs if he was going to be gone all day. Nope. Another fight. Don’t worry about the dogs. He will look after them.Sat. morning, I left for my appts. He was not home when I got back, and stayed out until late. When I asked him about when he finally got home, he said since I took off and didn’t tell HIM where I was going, then it was fair game for him to treat me the same way. Sigh.
With patience, I did remind him that he did know where I was. He just forgot. He is NOT one to apologize. Ever.
But what bothered me more was the way he reacted.
He got very emotional and reactive over things that he chose to do, and misinformation.Being me, I did tell him that his actions \ words could have been handled in another way. I was very gentle about reminding him of the Garbage Truck, and how he could have chosen to not assume, and having some of his own values (rules) about how to behave works better in the long term.
So it would be fair to say “it doesn’t matter”. I can SEE how he would think I am emotionless and just don’t care. But to argue about his opinion, or his statements about how I feel (the you never, you always, you feel, you think statements) are like garbage that needs to stay on the truck. If they are not true, I don’t feel emotions about the statements. If they ARE true, then I could look at my behavior and make sure it’s aligned to my values.
Today, as I am writing this, the thought comes to me that I am no longer basing my actions on what I think he wants to hear, or what would make him happy. I am basing my actions on what my values are. That is my only guide.
And “something” is telling me, loudly, that ‘caring’ about this stuff is a waste of time.
Yes, I do care about him. As a person. I don’t see him as potential relationship partner, when I don’t see that he is aware of his true identity. (it seems impossible!)
I am struggling with showing compassion, to the person. To the man. I think I may be “blocking” that as I’m not wanting to show marital love. Does that make any sense??
I don’t know how to be “caring” without being a wife.August 28, 2013 at 4:47 am #41331MattParticipantDi,
It does seem as though your heart is blocking feelings for him, which is probably defensive. What are you looking for? Are you looking to be free from the man, or are you looking to reopen your love for him? Its up to you! A few things came to heart as I read your words.
Consider that perhaps he is going through Di withdrawal. In the past, the codependency of the relationship was a pattern where you self sacrificed to help him settle. You stopped, which is great, but in the absence he is perhaps not finding his way. Said differently, if he used to dump his garbage into your mind and you took it and relieved that pressure, his mind might be filling up with no outlet.
Which is not “your problem”, and its up to you what to do. It sounds like unless something shifts in both of you, the intimacy is finished. He is responding badly, and as he does, it seems your trust and affection for him is dissipating. It really distills down to what would you like to do? If you’re over him and biding your time until you’re ready to split, then keep at the current pattern. If you’re looking to build a bridge to the driver of the truck, to try to reach out to the man behind the spinning, there might be some things to try. There is no right answer, its between you and your heart.
With warmth,
MattAugust 28, 2013 at 7:31 pm #41365DiParticipantIt’s up to me what to do next.
That is the big question, isn’t it?Am I trying to be free of the man? I am trying to be free, myself. Which is happening. A little bit at a time.
There are times when I try to think about this, and I find myself thinking that this is a ridiculous one way street, and probably more harmful to me than learning anything.The pillars of a relationship are not there, as he is not capable (now) of those things. At times, I consider that these are pretty basic relationship and life skills. “it’s not my problem” is taking me only so far. I am married, living with a stranger who doesn’t know himself.
Yes, you are right when you say someone has to break the gap. And he is looking for ME to do it. He has even said so.
I’m not sure I want to. And I certainly don’t have any ideas on how to do that. (probably because I don’t want to, right?)Looking for the seed of opportunity in the problem. And wondering if I am tending to the wrong garden? Whatever comes of tomorrow, I’m not anxious about it. We stay together, we divorce, whatever. I don’t know why, but I feel forced to make a decision to stay or go. I either have to open up my heart again (so I don’t get bitter about life in general) or leave. Like my sense of self awareness will be compromised by staying, and I have to decide which is more important. – Moving myself to a situation where I am more influenced by like minded people, or risk losing ground I have gained by staying to help him break the gap.
Do I sound crazy yet???
DiAugust 29, 2013 at 7:25 am #41385DonnaParticipantHi again, Di! I totally feel you. You have a lot of big questions on your mind and the biggest one of all–Do I stay or do I go? Will we grow together or will we grow apart?–It sounds like you are disconnecting, perhaps to protect yourself or to prepare yourself for a decision ahead. I think at some time, you will reach the crisis point where the fear of losing yourself becomes greater than the fear of losing him. Maybe you are already there. There is really no great advice I can give you other than to stay aware and stay true to yourself.
As for my situation, I have noticed a shift. Recently, my husband has been aware of his anger and his reactions and learning to control them. And I have been learning to handle confrontations better–to stay calm, really listen and try to understand, while at the same time, stand my ground when we have confrontations. Now when we talk, we both open up more and there’s a softening. Both of us are are starting to become more compassionate and both of us are growing up. I think I doubted my husband sometimes when I could have had more faith and patience. We do generally choose partners who are equal in emotional maturity so who was I to think I was so much more self-aware than him? He has surprised me, I must admit. Just something to ponder….
Your husband may grow with you or he may not, only time will tell. Stay open to all of the possibilities and trust that things will work out in harmony with your highest potential.
September 4, 2013 at 5:49 pm #41755DiParticipantAfter thinking about this for a few days, I found myself reading Deepak Chopra’s book about love. Still not finished it. Having a hard time being interested in getting through it! Of course, the whole message of “being right where I am supposed to be” keeps coming up. But I did have the thought today that maybe I AM learning what I needed to learn, and it will be okay to let this go.
I am concerned about my husband. He says his stress levels are peaked, he needs to do “something” or he will break. He thinks he might go seek some rx from his dr.
I did offer.. what can I do to help? Would it be helpful if I left for awhile? Would it help if we put aside the whole relationship thing? He says that would make things worse.It did come to light that yes he is stressed, about me and a lot of other things. His life coping is to pretend all is well, and he wants all to be nice and pleasant. The stress? The world (and me) simply isn’t cooperating. Things go wrong with vehicles, traffic, he has a bad sleep, people are rude. I don’t think I help matters. I speak my mind.
When I need to. Not with malice.A key point we discovered the other day. I spoke up about something he did that I felt hurt about.
I noticed, as I was talking, that he wasn’t listening to me. He was planning what he was going to say next. Really, he was just waiting for me to finish talking so he could talk.
And I was right. As soon as I finished talking, he started to say what he wanted to say. Had nothing to do with what I said.I re-directed it. I pointed it out. I asked for a response to what I had said. (I had to repeat it) He shrugged. “That’s the way I am”.
I told him that everyone makes mistakes. No one is perfect. I was looking for him to listen… and say… Sorry about that. I did not mean to hurt you. Then I would have considered the matter closed.
I felt kinda motherly about even asking him for an apology. Yes, that may be the “way he is”. If I blindly accept that, then I really don’t want much to do with him. I wish him well, and hope the best for him. I do get to choose where I invest my emotions.
For some reason, I think this may have tweaked something in him. He is looking for a counsellor this week.
September 12, 2013 at 12:22 pm #42156AnonymousInactiveDi and Matt,
Thank you for this conversation. I was in a position very similar to Diās. My partner and I broke up, did a lot of the work and I had hoped for another chance to practice my lessons (many that you, Matt have described). I was not given another chance and have a hard time moving on. Reading about your work has kind of been a surrogate for the relationship that I didnāt get a chance to work on. Iāve been trying to move on and recover from the pain of my loss, but the wanting a redo has weighed the heaviest on me.
Youāve taken much of that weight off my mind. Thank you!
September 13, 2013 at 9:36 am #42186DiParticipantIMO, Maile, the refusal to give you another chance could be him saying he isn’t willing to get that real. He’d rather live by ego as he thinks it is the easy road. Most people are afraid to dig deep inside and do the work. It’s always easier to walk away and find someone else who will just accept your flaws and not ask you to be mature.
IN other words… if you take the blame for the relationship, and then you work on yourself, it’s no longer a good excuse. That’s where I am at, anyways.
I was a “shrew”. Codependent. I’m working on it. By default, he still tries to follow old habits. It no longer works.
I don’t know if he will do the work to be the real person I want to get to know. Or what that will look like. The hardest thing is to accept not knowing.
But it’s been the most comforting thing I’ve learned. In all aspects of my life. It’s very peaceful. Just be me. The best me I can be. The rest of life just seems to fall into place.
Peace.September 13, 2013 at 12:56 pm #42197AnonymousInactiveDi, thank you for your perspective.
Itās hard to see someone transform from your spiritual partner to one who wants to take the path of the ego. Of course my relationship wasnāt as simple as that, as I have found from looking at Mattās recommended book on co-dependency that I fell into that category, too. Itās funny how I saw that in the end – that I found it more comfortable to fall into the dependency and the games that came with it and the type of co-dependent love that we shared than to see and act outside of that, because I knew if I did, our relationship and āloveā would be different and somehow less soothing.
Itās very interesting to hear that you are able to work through co-dependency and be mindful at the same time. Thatās true dedication and work. Itās exactly what I had wanted because I knew if I had it, it would be the greatest lesson and exercise I could ever take on. Aside from learning about and loving myself, I knew it would allow me to love others the way that they deserve to be loved. Do you find you and your husband drifting apart? I know you said that youāre not sure he can do the work to be the person you want to get to know. I thought that too throughout my relationship, but once I lost it, I could only focus on the things that made me fall in love with him – his sense of humor, our similar values, our common interests. And that confuses me. Iāve always been a āgrass is greenerā person, so I donāt know if my wanting him to get down and dirty with our suffering was just wanting something other than I had.
I guess Iāll never know. And like you said, the hardest thing is to accept not knowing.
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