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Is my friend abusing me?

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  • #407607
    camila
    Participant

    Hi Caroline, I think he puts a lot of expectations on your friendship, sometimes we have a friend but life goes on and the years pass and we realize that the friendship doesn’t resonate anymore and I think maybe its your case. I don’t think you should feel terrible with yourself but if you are not feeling this friendship anymore you should talk with him in a very honest way, its ok to grow apart and to understand that nothing last forever, he needs and will understand, you are both adults with your own life. I hope you are feeling better, sorry for my English its my 3 language.

    #407609
    Caroline
    Participant

    Hi Camilla, thanks for the reply. Yes, you are right, we probably grew together. He acted like this years ago, turns out he still does, and I have changed a lot. Hope you have a great day 🙂

    #407610
    Caroline
    Participant

    *grew apart, sorry 🙂

    #407611
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Caroline:

    “He has this habit of talking a lot and very long… He can talk for 40 minutes without taking a pause…  an hour or hour and a halfwithout taking any pause… He tells me everything, all the facts about him, his girlfriend, his mom, their health, everything, every detail… he again started talking about his bike, what repairs he did, exactly what, where, what day it happened, what he ate for breakfast that day, what he wore, that kind of details… that he talks a lot, very detailed, very fast and I sometimes don’t follow his stories, it’s too much, too long… It’s just overwhelming”.

    Wikipedia/ Pressured Speech: “Pressured speech is unrelenting, rapid, often loud talking without pauses. Those with pressured speech do not respond to verbal and nonverbal cues indicating that others wish to speak…  They are unable to listen to others, either talking nonstop until they run out of steam… The speech can be either intelligible or unintelligible.. People with schizophrenia, as well as anyone experiencing extreme anxiety, may also exhibit pressure of speech…  a feature of hypomanic and manic illness  Pressure of speech has commonly been observed in people diagnosed with attention deficit hyperactivity disorderPsychostimulants such as cocaine or amphetamines may cause speech resembling pressured speech”.

    health line. com/ pressured speech: “It’s often a part of experiencing a manic episode. The speech will come out rapidly, and it doesn’t stop at appropriate intervals. It’s difficult to understand what’s being said during pressured speech. It’s also not possible to carry on a conversation because the person with pressured speech will not stop long enough for another person to speak…  A pressured speech episode may continue for more than an hour.”

    Back to what you shared: “he had anger issues when he was just being angry all the time and projected this on me… I spent all evening feeling guilty and thinking about this. But it made ME angry.. I was always very polite, listening patiently… Lately I got really tired with this and a bit angry…  I was tired of listening to this. He replied angrily: forgive me but I don’t think I told you this story specifically… He called me out again that I don’t listen to him… He felt very much hurt and sorry for himself because I called off our meeting in last minute,…He told me he would never do such thing to me.. He said he was disappointed with me because I was always listening to him very patiently and he thinks I am rude and impolite…I know I should say directly things like I don’t wanna hear this anymore, this is too much details, stop talking. but I was raised this way and just keep quiet, maybe I’m good target for being treated like this…. He also said I didn’t text him all week… He started scrolling through the texts and asking: did you get this text? you didn’t reply. how about this one? and this one, did you get it?… I feel terrible but I also feel a bit relieved. What do you think? I wrote this to vent a little but also not always sure how I should feel. I was abused growing up“-

    -My comments: he’s been taking advantage of your passivity (listening to him quietly for hours), being unreasonably demanding of you, taking on the victim role and accusing you for victimizing him, aka blaming and guilt-tripping you. He did not take any responsibility for his problematic speech and for projecting his anger at you:  so, yes, he has been abusing you is my answer to your question (in the title of your thread).

    The wrongdoing on your part was not that you didn’t always, 100% of the time, listen to him quietly and politely. It was not that you got angry at him. The wrongdoing on your part was not something you did to him, but something you did to yourself: expecting and demanding of yourself to be a quiet and passive recipient of his guilt-tripping and of his pressured speech (which is very distressing to be exposed to, I know because my mother talked that way).

    Seems to me that you are inclined to feel guilty when accused of a wrongdoing (even though there is no wrongdoing on your part, in this case) and he is inclined to blame and guilt-trip other people. A combination of a person inclined to feel guilty and a person inclined to blame is a disastrous combination: it is simply bad for your mental health. Do you agree?

    anita

    #407615
    Caroline
    Participant

    Dear Anita,

    Thank you for the reply. I really did not expect such a great help.

    I was not aware of this condition (or a symptom, forgive me, not an excellent english speaker). I was googling stories of people who have similar friends, but those stories seemed different than mine.

    When he left I was feeling guilty of not saying directly how I feel – as he said – I should say I do not understand or do not follow his speech instead of “shutting down”. Today I do not agree. I know the problem was not my reaction (however proper or healthy it was or not) but his talking. Knowing he would continue this pressured speech I know I cannot meet him again alone.

    I’ve been thinking about telling him we need to give each other space. The only reason I did not say it was over for us was that I do not want to lose people around me. But I know having people around who abuse me is not the way to live.

    Before he left he asked me couple of times what’s next for us, are we gonna be friends still or what is my decision. I could not answer. I think he saw my lack of reaction mostly, I explained myself a bit (I know I should not have but as I said I was abused growing up, I am really trying to cope with situations like that, trust me I am trying to not hurt myself again). Most questions he asked I said I cannot give him answer, I cannot offer him anything more and that I am really surprised what he just told me and tired. He left without me saying anything. I think I was afraid of saying anything harsh but I have been preparing what to say when we will talk. I think I will say that this friendship has become too intense and we need to give each other space, and that I appreciate the calm life I am living for past few years, as well as my good mental health and my boundaries, and that I would like them to stay that way.

    Thank you again for making an effort. It really clarified it for me.

    #407618
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Caroline:

    You are welcome! Pressured speech is a symptom, so I read, and a condition I suppose: both words are okay. (No need to apologize for your English, it is fine. Mine is not my first language either: I still have a problem with when and us prepositions: at, to, from, for, in, on, etc.)

    I know the problem was not my reaction (to) this pressured speech“- the problem is his action (his pressured speech), not your reaction.

    I know I cannot meet him again alone“-  I agree.

    I’ve been thinking about telling him we need to give each other space“- good. Make it clear to him, if needed, that it’s not up to him to give you space; that you will be taking the space that you need with or without his consent.

    The only reason I did not say it was over for us was that I do not want to lose people around me“- it is a very positive loss when it comes to losing the distress involved in being exposed to pressured speech and guilt-tripping.

    But I know having people around who abuse me is not the way to live“- I agree.

    Most questions he asked I said I cannot give him answer“- if you want, you are welcome to list his questions and maybe I can help you to come up with answers that feel right to you.

    I think I will say that this friendship has become too intense…  and that I appreciate the calm life I am living for past few years, as well as my good mental health and my boundaries, and that I would like them to stay that way“- excellent! I can’t think of anything more important than a calm life, a good mental health and respected boundaries!

    anita

    #407620
    Caroline
    Participant

    Anita,

    Glad to read that you agree with what I come up with. I sometimes need to have more time to understand what happened, I do not have immediate reaction to abuse and maltreatment. I know why is that and probably most victims of abuse have it, but how to overcome this, how to know right now: I do not feel comfortable, this is not right, someone is hurting me. I have to say I have those feelings but I do not trust them I guess, not enough to act.

    Mostly he asked if I want to be friends with him, if we can work together – Truth is I would probably never reach out to him if it wasn’t for the job offer I got. Now we work together in a team of 5 people. That’s what worries me. Seems to me some people in the office do not like him because of his anger and talking. But still I need to make it work, so to speak. At least right now when I am still working here, not sure what the future holds but I would prefer not to switch jobs at the moment.

    So the question if I want to be friends with him is tricky. I think we indeed grew apart and it is not possible anymore. For the past year he wanted to meet every Saturday (plus Sundays – I declined but he used to ask every week) he wanted very frequent meetings, called sometimes everyday. He wanted to drop by during a week but I also did not have time usually. I do not have that much place for him in my life anymore.  I don’t think anyone has, for a friend, that much place and I do not think it is healthy and normal to be that needy and clingy. He has a girlfriend and he lives with her, I should mention.

    What I see best it would be us staying as colleagues that see each other once in a few weeks, months, with a group of other people, not talking day to day basis about each other’s everyday problems (what has been the issue here). Not sure how to maintain this. I guess I could just say this to him.

     

     

    #407625
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Caroline:

    I read some of your recent post but I am not focused enough to read and reply attentively, so I will get back to you tomorrow morning (in about 14 hours from now).

    anita

    #407640
    Caroline
    Participant

    Anita,

    Thank you. Have a good day 🙂

    #407647
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Caroline:

    I sometimes need to have more time to understand what happened, I do not have immediate reaction to abuse and maltreatment. I know why is that and probably most victims of abuse have it, but how to overcome this, how to know right now: I do not feel comfortable, this is not right, someone is hurting me. I have to say I have those feelings but I do not trust them I guess, not enough to act“- I don’t remember ever reading a person express this. It fits perfectly with my experience: I wasn’t able to evaluate situations and figure out if there was abuse in the situation, or not. Sometimes days later, it would occur to me that something wrong happened days earlier, and in my mind, I would prepare a retroactive response that I should have expressed at the time the response was relevant. It was very frustrating!

    As to why it happened: I think that it’s the Freeze Response to perceived danger. You know of the 3 Fs: Flight, Fight and Freeze, 3 natural responses to danger? While my mother was abusing me, as a child and onward, my brain perceived DANGER. I couldn’t run (Flight was not a possibility), couldn’t- wouldn’t fight her (Fight was not a possibility), so the only reaction left was FREEZE. My body froze (no movement) and my brain froze (no thinking). I just stood there until it was over.

    Fast forward, in situation with other people, my brain was frozen: no thinking, no evaluating, and therefore no appropriate, sensible reacting. Do you relate to this? If you do, we can talk about how to overcome this (your question in the quote above).

    He asked if I want to be friends with him… Now we work together in a team of 5 people. That’s what worries me. Seems to me some people in the office do not like him because of his anger and talking. But still I need to make it work, so to speak… So the question if I want to be friends with him is tricky… For the past year he wanted to meet every Saturday… called sometimes every day… I do not think it is healthy and normal to be that needy and clingy. He has a girlfriend and he lives with her, I should mention“-

    -I didn’t know that you are working together (if you shared it before, it didn’t register…perhaps my brain was frozen, lol). Given what you shared in the quote above, I think that it is very important that the only friendliness that you express to him would be strictly in the context of work, and that you should have no contact with him outside the work context, which includes not being alone with him: not privately and not publicly. Reasons: (1) the other 3 team members/ work colleagues understandably dislike him. If they think that you like him, being that you are his personal friend, they may think that you approve of his abusive behaviors,  (2) If the other 3 team members think that you disapprove of his abusive behaviors, and yet you choose to be his personal friend, they may think that you are emotionally dishonest and therefore, not trustworthy, (3) His live-in girlfriend (and others) may think that you are having an affair with him because, like you suggested yourself, it is not normal for a man (particularly one living with his girlfriend) to be this needy and clingy of another woman!

    What I see best it would be us staying as colleagues that see each other once in a few weeks, months, with a group of other people, not talking day to day basis about each other’s everyday problems (what has been the issue here) “- if I was you, I would not talk to him outside the work context, not day to day, not on any day; not about each other’s personal problems, not about anything other than work, within the work context (never being alone with him whenever it is possible).

    “Not sure how to maintain this. I guess I could just say this to him“- how about telling him that from now on, you and him will be interacting only in the work context and not in any other context; that from now on, you are friendly work colleagues, not personal friends?

    anita

    #407684
    Caroline
    Participant

    Anita,

    I now have read something about flight-fight-freeze and although I knew about it earlier – I did not know my lack of response in that situation is exactly the freeze response. I read to overcome too frequent freeze response one should practice grounding and relaxation. Not sure if it would work for me.  I can see you probably know something more about this.

    “Fast forward, in situation with other people, my brain was frozen: no thinking, no evaluating, and therefore no appropriate, sensible reacting. Do you relate to this?” – Yes, definitely I do relate.

    I did not mention that we worked together at the beginning. Last year in July 2021 I texted him I have an interview in a company he works. It wasn’t at his division at first. He said it would be nice to meet, he was extremely happy I texted him, said he missed me etc. I knew I would not text him if it was not for the job offer – I guess my text was just very spontaneous and I assumed we would meet in this company anyway so I thought maybe good idea to text him, see if he still works there, maybe give me some tips. I did not expect the reunion of the friendship, especially as sometimes we texted birthday wishes or christmas wishes (I think last time in 2018) and it was just very casual.

    From July 2021 to march 2022 we used to meet quite often, at his place together with his girlfriend or at my place sometimes. He called a lot and talked but with time I got tired and angry with his behaviour, and I felt I needed space from him because the contact became too frequent and just too much. At work he brags that we are the best friends, he doesn’t talk about the fact we did not speak for 5 years so knowing we were friends in 2012-2014 we cannot exactly say we have been friends for 10 years. In 2015-16 we have met few times and texted birthday wishes once in a while some time after that.

    I must say first of all I don’t like the fact he has been telling people we have been the best friends, know each other for 10 years because it is simply not entirely true.

    I changed divisions at work in December 2021 to the one he works so we started working together. In March/April 2022 we started talking less, I texted less often, did not ask how he was because I did not want to hear his lectures. Last sunday when he came to my place with all his resentment toward me he also mention lack of contact from my side for the past months.

    Situation at work is problematic. Just when you wrote “If the other 3 team members think that you disapprove of his abusive behaviors, and yet you choose to be his personal friend, they may think that you are emotionally dishonest and therefore, not trustworthy” – the same day my coworker asked my why am I not “in his team” since we were best friends.  I think for past few days this is my worst concern because I know I will break up this relationship one way or another but worry about what people at work would think as they already think we are best friends (not 100% sure what he tells them – I am working home office, he and only one coworker are in the office)

    I feel it is a trap that I fell into.

    I have not talked to him since Sunday, except for work messages and e-mails. I know he will probably call me out for this, as he again must feel neglected so I’m preparing for the conversation. I wrote what I need to tell him, but it is very stressful that I have to say it all and stand up for myself. He usually intimidates and bullies me. I regret I put up with this all these months and did not stand up for myself and now it became a trap I need to get out of.

    As for his girlfriend I do not know what he told her to get her approval on meeting with me that often but I do not feel comfortable with being so close to him. I know I no longer want to be alone with him and do not want people to think we are that close. I am aware it is not normal and I do not need nor want that kind of relationship with him.

    #407685
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Caroline:

    I just noticed that you submitted a post 14 minutes ago, but I won’t be able to read or reply for 7 hours or maybe for as long as 18 hours from now. Take care! I’ll be back to your thread later.

    anita

    #407688
    Caroline
    Participant

    Anita, thank you for making time to answer me. Have a good day (or night depends on time zone you’re living in)

    Take care!

    #407795
    Anonymous
    Guest

    Dear Caroline:

    I feel it is a trap that I fell into… He usually intimidates and bullies me. I regret I put up with this all these months and did not stand up for myself and now it became a trap I need to get out of“- I think that objectively, the situation is not as bad as you feel that it is. You can undo the trap and set yourself free if and when you stand up for yourself and create a new reality at work.

    my coworker asked my why am I not ‘in his team’ since we were best friends.  I think for past few days this is my worst concern because I know I will break up this relationship one way or another but worry about what people at work would think as they already think we are best friends (not 100% sure what he tells them – I am working home office, he and only one coworker are in the office)“- tell the guy that you and him are friendly work colleagues but no longer personal friends. Then tell everyone else at work the same thing. Be factual about it, don’t elaborate. And then, if he comes to your home uninvited, don’t let him in. If he calls you outside the work context, tell him that he is not to call you because you are no longer personal friends. Be calm and persistent.

    It is a great opportunity, as scary as it may feel, to assert yourself and stand up for yourself: take advantage of this opportunity!

    anita

    #407804
    Caroline
    Participant

    Anita,

    I just told him all this, maybe I forgot some details but I think it went well.

    It felt scary but also relieving and empowering. I feel like it set me free a little bit. Thank you again for helping me. I was planning to talk to him next week but after reading your message today I decided to do it right away, to not be scared. Although I was scared, but after I read that you wrote it was not that bad, it gave me courage and I thank you for that.

    I think he understood, he was very quiet about it, though, so not sure what the outcome will be in the future and how he will act at work, etc. May be difficult. So it’s “to be continued” for sure. But it had to be done and I am really glad I did it.

    Today at the bakery some lady stepped up before me in a queue, although I was there first. I was standing in silence (like I would always do) but then I told her Sorry I was here first. And I started saying my order. I know it may seem silly but it is really difficult for me, to stand up for myself. I almost never do. Or should I say I really really never do. 🙁 When something like this happens I do not have normal pulse or no stress, as they say, to be able to scan the environment and plan better. No, I start to have panic attack and start being angry but I just stand there, do nothing and walk away.. Not sure if this is the typical freeze response.

    Do you have any helpful websites or youtube videos about freeze response? I really would like to read more how to overcome it.

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