HomeâForumsâRelationshipsâIs being Gay actually real love or a perversion
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Miranda.
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December 27, 2017 at 8:56 am #183869
Anonymous
GuestDear crawford:
It is only yesterday that you started another thread to which I responded. I would like to respond to this one but need your feedback on my reply to your other thread. If you would like, do reply there. Otherwise, I hope you get other members’ replies to your current thread.
anita
December 27, 2017 at 9:17 am #183885Anonymous
GuestDear crawford:
I would like to reply to this current thread. It will help me in this reply if you respond to my reply to you on your yesterday’s thread.
anita
December 27, 2017 at 9:46 am #183895Anonymous
Guest* Excuse the second posting- there are some technical difficulties it seems. I submitted my first reply- it did not appear so I submitted a second reply. After some time the first reply appeared and later… the second.
December 27, 2017 at 11:28 am #183891Beachratt
ParticipantReading your post left me with great concern for your well being. I registered with this site, just so that I can give you a reply and some advise. First, a little about me; I am a 68 year old white male. I work as a tugboat captain, a job I love. I am married to a man, whom I love as well, tho he is not my first. I am a happy man. I often say that if I were to keel over dead right now I would die a happy man. It seems to me a good measure of the quality of life. However, from the time of puberty until I was 23 years old I was miserable. Eventually, I became reclusive, negative, and morose. Some of my friends, and even my mother, had made anti-gay statements that served to make my hate my feelings even more. Furthermore, I lived in a small city and the only gay people I knew of were very flamboyant ‘queens’ and I knew I was not like that. After my best friend expressed a fear that I was suicidal ( I wasn’t – yet ) I realized that I had a serious problem that I had to face up to. Otherwise, the downward spiral would take me down. So, I sat myself down and admitted to myself that I was gay. I did not act on that knowledge for a year, but in that time I told my friends, thinking they would find out anyway and preferring to make a clean cut if that was to be the result. You should know this: I never lost a single friend as a result of them finding out I was gay. In fact, that was 45 years ago and the people who were my best friends then are still my friends. I was not ostracized by my family either, tho many people are. Also, I am ‘out’ at work, which doesn’t cause my any problems or discomfort, even tho I work in what would undoubted by considered a ‘macho’ occupation.
You ask if homosexuality is a perversion and if gay people can love. Of course, I am biased. Furthermore, one might ask what ‘true love’ is, and how would one know if he is experiencing it? I cannot answer that except to say that I have most definitely been ‘heartbroken’ as a result of being dumped by a man I loved. I don’t recommend it, but it’s part of life, I guess. Homosexuality exists in every culture ( I know, I travel a lot ), in every age, and in other animals as well. I estimate that it occurs in 4-5% of the male population and I have read that it occurs in 8% of male sheep, for example. Whatever it is, it is NOT a perversion. The worst part of being gay is not what is in you, it’s the intolerance of others who are incapable of understanding the beautiful diversity of human experience.
So, here is my advise to you: stop fighting it. Nobody has ever succeeded in doing so, although there a few screwed up people who make that claim, often being caught in their hypocrisies. Don’t believe the criticisms people lay against the “gay lifestyle.” There is no such thing. You make your lifestyle, nobody else does. But being gay is not the same as being strait, so you should also not fall into the trap of trying to live a “strait lifestyle.” Be true to yourself; there is nobody else in the world whose acceptance of you is as important than your own.
Your decision regarding how to view your sexual orientation is going to be the prime determinant of your future happiness. I urge you to choose happiness.
Scott
December 27, 2017 at 3:57 pm #183971crawford
ParticipantHello thank you guys for your messages and support. I am so happy to see that there are people that want to help others in sticky situations. I hope you understand me turning to this forum instead of going to therapy or asking my friends because they are part of the problem and will only give me advice based on how they assume is the best solution. Both of my best friends are totally contradictory, and whenever i ask advice they will always say the opposite of each other because they are the female and male polar versions of each other. It has been very hard for me to get any help and i never knew exactly where to turn too with my questions because i have this spiritual background and i always feel everyone misunderstands because they don’t see it from my awakened perspective of reality. My dad is a capitalist with a very narrow view of the world and wont see past the illusion of this world. My mum is Russian, somewhat spiritual but she never acts on her own knowledge and is totally against gayness because of her Russian upbringing. I have good friends and most of them would understand if i told them that i was gay, even my father is very acceptive and i have heard him debate homosexuality with my mum many times so i know he would be on my side. But i still feel very sorry for my mum, i will brake her heart completely and disgust her to her very core if she found out. I just know it in beforehand just based on how she has spoken about the subject. The main concern for me is that my best friend will leave me because i have heard of him talking about homosexuality as somebody being very confused and totally on the wrong path, on the way to some hell-state of mind and that it might be an influenced by the devil part of us. I just want people not to think ”butsex” as the first thing that comes to their mind if would come out. And that is kinda how society is programmed to think gayness as. They see all the flamboyent parades and people being very feminine with died hair, and fucked up values. That is not me at all, i know that this sounds stereotypical to say but i am a very masculine gay guy and i blend in with straight people easily, they don’t even notice at all. Even the macho type guys i can handle without getting intimidated, but sometimes almost feel like a girl around those people for some reason. Sometimes i feel like i have a girls energy in the body of a guy, even though i have normal male traits. Almost as if i chose to come in the form of a guy into this world even though my soul is more feminine-polarized.
If you want to share more thoughts i would be very happy, everything helpes. Just talking to you guys about this makes me happier.
December 27, 2017 at 9:37 pm #184001Brandy
ParticipantHi Crawford,
Iâm a straight married woman who was raised in a conservative religious home, and I donât believe homosexuality is against God at all. I believe that being gay is something you cannot change. âBeachrattâ (Scott) gave you very solid advice above. A lot of people donât accept homosexuality for religious reasons, others because it scares them, and still others because they just canât (or donât want to) understand it. Some are afraid to associate with homosexuals because they fear that if they do, people will think they themselves are gay. Parents of a gay child may think itâs a reflection of their parenting, that they did something wrong that made their child gay. I understand your reluctance to tell your best friend, and also your mom. Just know that there are many, many people who donât have these fears and beliefs. I am one of them.
You say that you are feeling inauthentic. Take a deep breath, relax, and be yourself starting now. This doesnât necessarily mean that you need to immediately tell everyone in your life that you are gay. Take it one step at time. First step: get real comfortable being the real you. Itâll be easier sharing the news with others once you are comfortable with it yourself. As Beachratt put it so perfectly, âBe true to yourself; there is nobody else in the world whose acceptance of you is as important than your own.â
I loved the honesty in your posts. I think you are awesome.
Brandy
December 28, 2017 at 2:38 am #184019VJ
ParticipantListen to one of the world’s greatest spiritual master Eckhart Tolle on the subject.
Since you are already from a spiritual background and understand things I don’t need to tell you much – Don’t based your sense of identify got to do anything with the gender or the physical form. The ultimate idea is disidentification with the external form and more into the formless realm (soul consciousness) where the doubts you have won’t matter anymore as there is no male/female in the formless realm.(www.youtube.com/watch?v=9s0DBFnJS2I)
Take care buddy,
VJDecember 28, 2017 at 4:27 am #184033Anonymous
GuestDear crawford:
In your most recent post on this thread you wrote regarding coming out as a gay man: “The main concern for me is that my best friend will leave me.”
In your previous thread of two days ago, you wrote: “I have a friend (who) was in a mental hospital…being bipolar… Eventually he got out of the hospital… I started hanging with him constantly after that… He also tried psychedelics to open his mind and he likes it very much… But…I have started gradually starting feeling worse, I don’t know if it is because of him or because of myself. I feel like it is hard to keep any boundaries around him and that I constantly have to see him and do what he does… I feel worse every day… I just feel unauthentic and I don’t know who I am by myself”.
Is this the same friend you referred to as your main concern?
anita
December 28, 2017 at 5:47 am #184057crawford
ParticipantAnita, it is the same friend i am talking about
December 28, 2017 at 6:08 am #184067Anonymous
GuestDear crawford:
Then your main concern with coming out is to lose a person with whom you “feel worse every day”, with whom it is difficult for you to “keep any boundaries”, with whom you “constantly have to see him and do what he does,” and with whom you “just feel unauthentic”?
Can you explain to me the nature of your perceived loss of this person in your life?
anita
December 28, 2017 at 6:16 am #184071Kevin Mahoney
ParticipantHello Crawford,
I l just saw a documentary that relates to what you have shared. It is called Finding Guy. You can check it out online I believe. Good luck.
December 28, 2017 at 6:23 am #184073crawford
ParticipantWell all of the things above are true but i think it is because of myself not being authentic, my friend is totally authentic and open with everything. I have had so many beautiful experiences with this friend. I love him very much, he understands me most of all of my friends and i just love talking to him because he understands spiritual concepts and the nature of reality (to a certain degree). He knows most about spirituality of the friends i know. So i do have a lot to lose if i lose him, also because we share so many of the same friends . I just don’t know how i should explain that i might be gay to him because he will feel utterly betrayed, and feel as i have been lying to him forever and he wont understand why since he has been fully truthful to me and shared everything while i have been hiding away something from him and i think he is starting to notice it because i have a hard time looking straight into his eyes (don’t know why) but it is like some strong energy builds up if i look straight in his eyes for too long.
December 28, 2017 at 6:40 am #184081Anonymous
GuestDear crawford:
Thing is, when you are not authentic with your friend, you are not able to know that he is authentic. You are not able to evaluate another person’s authenticity when you are not authentic.
You described that your love-relationship orientation is that of the same sex. You are motivated, you believe, to have a loving relationship with a man, not with a woman. There is no moral value to it, it is not right or wrong, is not of a lesser value or a higher value than the more common orientation.
I understand that you have an emotional attachment to your friend, a longing of sorts, but I do hope you take him down from a pedestal you may have him on. Don’t look up to him; don’t look up to anyone.
Be authentic. And then, you will be able to evaluate others for their authenticity, or lack of.
anita
December 28, 2017 at 11:31 am #184175Beachratt
ParticipantCrawford,
People make comments about gay people ( and other groups ) in the belief that they are saying the acceptable thing. In saying these things to you, they think they are making points by taking a stance with which they think you will agree. Furthermore, most people’s prejudice against gay people come from a place of ignorance. They don’t know any gay people ( or don’t know that they know some ), so they believe that the stereotypical portrayal of the limp-wristed effeminate man is an accurate description of all gay men. My mother was also known to make disparaging remarks about gay men, which caused me great concern and led me to delay telling her longer than I should have. When I finally came out to her, after the initial shock from the unexpected revelation, her reaction was anger than I had not told her sooner. When you tell people, it forces them to re-evaluate their beliefs in the light of new information, i.e. that their pre-conceived notions of what gay people are were not correct. You are proof of that.
With regard to your friend for whom you feel an attraction; if he – or anyone else – cannot accept you for who you are, they are not your true friends. As I noted before, I have never had that happen. My friends, co-workers, and most acquaintances have accepted it without fanfare, even when I expected otherwise.
I strongly advise you to come to terms with this aspect of your self. You don’t have to act on it. I took a year from the time I accepted myself until I began dating men, and it was a good thing. I was mentally ready when I did, so I didn’t do as so many young people did, going forth with wild abandon. Eventually, you will find that being gay is a really a minor aspect of your self, not the dominating thing that it is now. I know well the hurt and fear you are experiencing, and I know that it will only get worse until you face up to it.
Good luck, Crawford.
January 5, 2018 at 9:47 am #185219crawford
ParticipantHello again, i thought that i should share some update on my life and how i feel at the moment.
So i decided to come out to my ex-girlfriend about my attraction to guys, because i though she is the one that deserves to know it the most. Actually she asked me if i am gay and i just told her on new years eve, i told her that i am gay. She was very confused and baffeled at first but took it very chill and accepted it totally. I kinda expected her reaction, i didn’t believe she was going to be mad or sad, so i was never scared of telling her.
A couple days pass and everything is fine, and she even felt sorry for making me feel awkward around her, her trying to give me kisses all the time and trying to get me ”back”. So yesterday i was staying over at hers and we starting talking alot about sexuality and feelings. She told me about her personal experiences with a girl when she was younger and that she used to kiss her and do sexual things but she does not want to do that anymore but told me that she still thinks many girls are very attractive and she would not mind playing with their private parts or kissing her friends. Later she asked me a tricky question about how i felt having sex with her when we were together, she asked me if i disliked it or if it felt weird. And i told her honestly that i did like it somewhat and i don’t really have a problem with kissing girls or having sex because i enjoy it but i don’t get any feelings like i would think real love is. She then told me that i might be bisexual or like her, liking guys but also thinking girls are attractive. It got me very confused about what i feel or how i should feel when having sex or feeling love. I know love and i know how it feels, unfortunately i only gotten that feeling only from guys. Kinda makes me feel my ex is trying to put these thoughts into my head to make her hope i would maybe come back to her if i’m bisexual. idk
I have been reading a lot on the the internet about homosexuality which has made me even more confused if i am doing the right decision to identify myself as gay. Yes it is true that i feel attracted to guys, that is true. But is it natural? I have read that homosexuality is more of a social conditioning which makes you feel these feelings. Many articles and forums suggests that it is a imbalance in the masculine and feminine aspect within us and it is indeed against the law of creation. Other suggested it to be Karmic debt which has caused me to feel imbalanced feelings and therefore suffering for my past life deeds.
Here is a link to one of the sites i read from (would love to hear a perspective):Â http://www.ascendedmasteranswers.com/practical-life/sexuality/513-foundational-teachings-on-homo-sexuality
I understand that i am not my body, and that beyond polarity of masculine and feminine there is a soul which is neither female or male. So what should identify myself with? ”being gay” feels like a huge label on my for-head and feels like im identifying myself with something which in reality is an illusion. How should i explain to people that my body might be uncertain but i still know the reality behind our genders? People are so narrow-minded and a label ”gay” is very misunderstood. I am not even that attracted to the sexual part of being with somebody. I mostly like the closeness and intamacy of being with another guy. Since i am so confused and misunderstood i have contemplated going into celibacy instead of indulging in sex. Maybe it is the answer for me, still feels like a very big commitment and i am scared to feel lonely. How do you live a life in celibacy or how do i explain me being attracted to guy but not really wanting the sex. Feels like nobody will ever understand me :/
Best Regards
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