Hi Kaith,

After reading your post I took some time to read about emotional manipulation as well. If you really think that such descriptions match your boyfriend’s behavior, it seems clear to me that the only thing you should do is freeing yourself from him. Unless your goal in life is to be his servant (no matter what he does, say, feel or think) or to be an unloved saint, you should stop trying to believe that he may change or that if you change or grow his attitude toward you will change as well. Really, you may still love him, but do not expect to be loved back or to receive any feedback of validation, do not believe him he does. You should not count on him to decide what is good for you both, to acknowledge it or to willingly act for it, do not believe him when he says so.

However, try to not be a quick judge and consider that some bad behavior may be the result of new insights or problems he experiences. Nevertheless, if that bad behavior happens again and again, no matter what your reasons and without regard for your feeling, you may be actually right. If you have a doubt he may be an emotional manipulator, try to not commit to a long time plan of growth and change. Change a tiny bit, and see how he reacts. Does he appreciate you? Moreover, try to not just show the pro of your change, but also the cons. If he reacts badly and accuse you, you’ll know he is not really sure about what he proposed you. Moreover, do not change for him, change for you both as a couple. So think whether changing is what you want as well (consider your past, your friends and everyone important who may have an opinion on that, consider your goals for the future).

Hi Kaith, I’m glad you found my post supportive.

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“I’m curious though are they (emotional manipulators) bad people? Are there bad people at all?”

That depends on what bad is for you. I’m sure a fly would call the spider a bad guy indeed. But the spider has to set his traps in order to live, he is like any other spider and he is not bad among his species. Yet he is a creature of nature animated by simple instincts deprived of the concept of bad and good.

As animal have their ways, also we, as humans, we learn skills and we find our way to cope with the needs of life. Some of us could appreciate some principle of fairness and respect (through empathy or logic) and developed enough self-discipline to abide to it. Maybe they were lucky and were born in a comfortable environment where people were mostly fair among them and did not have to watch their back to spot others who were not respectful of their feelings. Maybe they followed a more complex path of personal growth. On the other hand, some other of us could find no use for such a principle but making it a cover to be accepted in certain contexts. Maybe they had to fight in life like it was a jungle and they had to rely only on themselves. Maybe they realized riding on someone else shoulders was the quickest and safest route. Maybe they were not taught any other skill and had to resort to lying. Maybe they learned that giving the fault to others is the only way to feel better when they fail at something, because nobody encouraged them to persist or appreciated them.

Nevertheless, even when people accept some principle of fairness, they may have different ideas about it and look bad one to the other. For example, a manipulator may think he is fair, he may say that everybody else is completely selfish and just using their principles to cover their own selfishness (because after all they do better when they follow them), actually he may say that the other are trying to manipulate him with their principles. He is just taking care of himself like everybody else. The manipulator may not be a bad person, but you cannot defeat that thought alone, everything you say or do may be interpreted as a way to manipulate him, a way that needs to be defeated.

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“I used to think we might behave bad towards someone because of our own troubles and weaknesses. But can it be that people might happen to be simply bad?”

If we have troubles, we fight hard to solve them. If we are weak, we try hard to develop our strengths. If someone give us a way and a hope, and we have none, we consider it. If we trust the person or we like the suggestion, we follow it. We are repeatedly rough to someone only if we think he/she is the source of our illnesses. (or maybe we want to force them out of their confort zone, so that they will help us). As I said above, a manipulator may accuse others to be the cause of his own failures. Maybe it’s easier, maybe it is automatic and he does not even think about it, maybe he has some responsibility toward them and has to find a way to not feel bad because he did let them down. In any case, he does not acknowledge the fact that he should start working on himself. It is his way to feel better with himself, although his way may not be that effective or positive for him or the persons around him.

I do not know whether you want to discuss about it, however, what manipulative behaviors does your boyfriend show?

• This reply was modified 10 years, 1 month ago by Vhanon.

(This is my first post so please let me know if my interjection belongs elsewhere, or anything else I may not be aware of when posting.)

I am in a similar situation with the man that I live with and love, and feel that we have a very special connection.

Thank you both Kath and Vhanon, for sharing your thoughts. I have found this all more helpful than I can explain and am truly grateful for this.

I am in a difficult position. I love him dearly. We are good companions, good company, have done much growing together and I am confident that we could be happy and grow old well together. The problem is that, while he does not have an alcohol problem, he has behaviors that seem too manipulative for me to bear and at the same time maintain my own sanity. He too has mood swings, is often not able to consider my view in conversations or decisions, does the guilt thing, and is unreliable with his decisions.

I also have struggled with the idea of “good” and “bad” in terms of the manipulation. I actually do not feel he is aware his behavior seems manipulative and just does it as a subconscious pattern, which makes me wonder if that matters. I really appreciate the analogy of the fly and the spider Vhanon, that makes much sense.

Thank you Kath, I think I need to give “spinning solo” more thought.

Part of the difficulty I struggle with, and wonder if it is the same for you Kath, is that I can see that he is suffering, and seems lost to helping himself in some of his ways. I feel that I know we can be wonderful together, if only he could rely on my strengths where he is lacking.

I am not saying that I am better than him, just that I wish he could allow himself to trust my strengths in certain areas, just as I do trust and rely on him in areas that I feel inexperienced with.

The problem though is, what I see as his biggest weakness is that he is lacking in insight. He is unaware of his emotions, how they relate to his behavior, and how that relates to others. He is self centered but I do not hold this against him, it just seems like he is lacking in his own awareness about his feelings and he isn’t even aware that he, for ex. was stomping about or being passive aggressive, until I point it out to him.

I wonder if it is this way for you Kath… I think if he were another person that I didn’t have figured out so well, then I could just label him as “bad” and move on. However, because I know him so intimately, I can see his pain and struggle. I can even feel that I understand the origin of his struggles and emotions even while he himself is so unaware of his own state. I feel like because it seems so simple to me, that if only he could wear my “eyes” for a day and understand what is going on for him, that it would all make sense. That he would see the potential, the path, and see how simple it actually is, and see that I can help him, and he can help me and that it is all actually clearly possible for us to be a very good thing for one another, and how we can actually use the differences of our strengths and weaknesses to compliment one another into something more wonderful. (Instead of what is now happening)

Unfortunately, I am faced with the reality, that his eyes are his, and we can not borrow one another’s perspectives.