I think I found a better explanation for you!

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This topic has 26 replies, 2 voices, and was last updated 6 years, 5 months ago by Anonymous.

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May 23, 2018 at 10:46 am #209003

Phil
Participant

I feel like I cant return to my human vessel.

May 23, 2018 at 10:57 am #209005

Anonymous
Guest

Dear Phil:

The strangest thing, is it not, that you are in this human vessel right this moment as you are reading my words. It doesn’t “feel like” you are in this human vessel you are in, but you are in it.

You experienced how it feels to not be in this human vessel while in the human vessel.

This very experience you had was made possible by your brain. Your brain is your body, your brain is your human vessel.

It is your brain that is making it possible for you to read my words, to process what I read. Let me know what you think about what I wrote here. I will turn off the computer in about fifteen minutes and will be back to your thread in about seventeen hours.

anita

May 23, 2018 at 2:49 pm #209021
Phil
Participant
I cant really say much more. Whatever might happen to me, if this is experience of “no-self”, it is not pleasant and I want to return to my “normal self”, firstly. But that seems like not very possible.

The only thing I have to know is that I am really HERE and NORMAL, I need to know if I have still the connection to normality in order to let go. If I dont have this fundamental base “of feeling right”, the belief will always counter every approach to heal the thoughts occuring above it. It might heal the thoughts, but not really the root of it, dont you think so too?

The feelings are the symptoms of the delusional belief, the thoughts the interpretation of the feelings.
Do you really think we are our brain producing thoughts or this body? Or just aware of this brain producing thoughts and body? I do believe we are consciousness having a human experience and you said it is very likely that I experience(d) this.
- This reply was modified 6 years, 5 months ago by Phil.
- This reply was modified 6 years, 5 months ago by Phil.
May 23, 2018 at 3:17 pm #209033

Phil
Participant

Consciousness – I’d say there are different levels of consciousness. It describes to what extent you are aware in the present moment, rather you live on a high consciousness level, meaning you are well aware of your thoughts and are able to stay in your space of awareness, observant.

Or deeply unconscious, for that, there are different aspects “controlling” it, is there a specific view/belief you are holding that makes you unconscious, if yes, you have to identify it in order to let it go and to rise to a higher consciousness.

If there is something wrong with your beliefs that interfere with your consciousness, I think it is not likey to get to a higher state of consciousness without building the base by resolving the mess underneath.

May 24, 2018 at 2:48 am #209061

Anonymous
Guest

Dear Phil:

These are two separate issues:

1. Is there an existence outside time and outside the body?

2. Is it possible for a human being, a Phil, to exist outside time and outside your body (the human vessel)?

My answer to the first: possibly, probably. My answer to the second: a definite No.

What happened, I strongly believe, is the following: you had a mental experience, that is, an experience made possible by your brain, similar to a lucid dream.

People who have lucid dreams when they sleep, see things so vividly, hear things, smell, taste, touch… and it all feels so real. When they wake up they are fascinated by how real it felt. Yet they know it didn’t really happen outside that short distance in between their ears.

A person may have a lucid dream about a battle in world war two, a battle that really happened, according to recorded history. It is possible then, to have a mental experience, a lucid dream, about something that really happened.

A person may have a lucid dream about a giant insect eating people. It is not possible for an insect to be giant, because they don’t have an inner skeleton. An outer skeleton can not support a giant body.

There possibly or even probably really is an experience outside time and outside a body, but this experience is not available to you. You cannot experience it, you can only imagine it. You cannot experience it because it is impossible for you to not be a subject to time or to be independent of your brain.

You wrote: “this ..experience of ‘no-self’.. is not pleasant and I want to return to my ‘normal self’.. But that seems like not very possible”. You are a self who imagined being a no self.

You asked: “Do you really think we are our brain producing thoughts.. Or just aware of this brain producing thoughts..?”- I know our brain produces our thoughts, and imaginings. For as long as you are a human being, Phil, your awareness is made possible by your brain and no awareness is possible for you independently of your brain.

You wrote: “The only thing I have to know is that I am really HERE and NORMAL… I don’t have this fundamental base ‘of feeling right’, the belief will always counter every approach to heal”

You are here, Phil, and your experience, as abnormal as it feels, is a human experience. There are other people who experienced very similar experiences to yours. You are not outside humanity.

The big obstacle for you, I believe, is understanding that something can feel real and yet not be real. If you look back into your life, you can probably find instances when something felt real but you found out later that it wasn’t real (a dream perhaps?). This is one such incident, only this incident has been going on for a long time and has been troubling you a whole lot.

anita

May 24, 2018 at 6:43 am #209121

Phil
Participant

Dear anita. Thank you for your words.

Obviously I can tell that I exist; if I didn’t, we wouldn’t be having this conversation. And yet when this belief surfaces, it causes an incredible dissonance, because it is so out of step with what is actually happening.

So what do you suggest? I am really deeply trapped in this belief.

May 24, 2018 at 7:02 am #209125

Anonymous
Guest

Dear Phil:

I suggest you fit your beliefs to what is true to reality. Mental health is in its core about believing what is true to reality. Replace untrue beliefs with true beliefs.

Relax best you can, take your time, no rush.

anita

May 24, 2018 at 11:22 am #209231

Phil
Participant

Unfortunately it is very hard to believe that I am normal, or that there is not something wrong. I cant let go of these beliefs, maybe I just experience something unknown, spiritual, supernatural, maybe there is something irreversibly wrong? I dont know how to get back grounded and with every day passing by this belief gets fuelled.

May 24, 2018 at 1:14 pm #209249
Phil
Participant
What I forgot to mention is that since that issue, Ive been feeling like I am held back by something and feel legitimately like I am standing at one point and dont evolve but always fall back to square one moving in circles. It feels like I cant break off the trammels of this belief. And since that day Ive always faced the same kind of feelings and suffering.

It is like I missed something and cant continue because of that, this feeling is very legit, like I cant even let go of anything anymore and stay in one state of mind I cant get out of.
- This reply was modified 6 years, 5 months ago by Phil.
May 24, 2018 at 1:48 pm #209263

Anonymous
Guest

Dear Phil:

I have a suggestion for you: re-read my posts to you so far on this thread and repeat what I posted to you in your own words, as clearly as simply as you can. Do so in your next post to me.

Having read quickly your last two posts to me, seems to me that you do indeed “stay in one state of mind (you) can’t get out of”, and it is as if you didn’t read or process anything I posted to you. This is what I suggested what I did above.

I will be back to the computer in about thirteen hours.

anita

May 24, 2018 at 1:56 pm #209267

Phil
Participant

Yes. My processing of information is really lacking, I feel overall that I became a dumb person. I am sorry anita and thank you.

May 25, 2018 at 2:28 am #209311

Anonymous
Guest

Dear Phil:

This is what I believe to be the problem: you are suffering from an obsession. You are stuck in a thinking-loop, and you keep going around and around in that loop, “always fall back to square one moving in circles”, just like you wrote yesterday.

The problem is the obsession, that thinking loop you are stuck in, compelled to engage in again and again and again. The problem is not the content of the thoughts (an obsession can be about anything). The problem is the thinking-loop, aka obsession.

The solution is to exit the loop. There are other parts of your brain where you can go. In those other parts you can see that loop from a distance. You can’t think your way out of the loop for as long as you are in the loop. You need to get away from the loop, then think.

All thinking while you are in the loop is useless.

How to get away from the loop? If you already tried meditation, exercise and so forth and it did not work, psychiatric drugs may be it for you. See a psychiatrist. Some prescribed drugs will disable that loop. Once chemically disabled, you will be able to think from outside the loop.

anita
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