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January 22, 2014 at 12:13 pm #49540CastiosParticipant
Hello,
Last few days were very, very difficult to me. I am atheist, but only recently I realized with full power the meaning of death and losing all of our experiences, knowledge and consciousness. I really felt terrible about that, fear just paralyzed me and everything became so meaningless. Even my favourite actions stopped giving me any pleasure and satisfaction, I became truly depressed. I don’t know how to overcome this fear without evading it (and I can’t even do that), it just took control of me. I lost my appetite and I am unable to take any action. Why should I experience things, be kind, love people if I am going to die, and they are going to die as well? Vision of being dead forever is terrifying as well as vision of my loved ones being dead. I crossed some line, I should have never imagine what death means.
I don’t know what to do, I was thinking about visiting psychotherapist, but won’t he push my overthinking even further? Can he help me? I am feeling worse day after day, like I am going to die right here and right know. Eternal blackness scaring me like nothing ever before. I just want to be able to function, be happy and be able to get satfiscation from small and insignificant things (or make them significant). Right know I am very, very depressed, sad and unhappy. Fear of nothingness attached to my brain very hard and won’t let go, as well as fear of losing everything.
January 22, 2014 at 2:10 pm #49552MattParticipantCastios,
I’m sorry for your grief, and hope you find some relief soon. Sometimes when we experience loss, it is such a “bubble popping” that we experience emptiness poisoning, or nihilism, as though nothing that happens matters. This is a very tormenting mental state, and you have my sympathies for how dark and unsettling it can become. A few things came to heart as I read your words.
Consider that part of what you’re seeing is true. Things are impermanent, they rise and fade, we are born and then die. This doesn’t mean they don’t matter, quite the opposite. Each moment is precious, our lives like a firework exploding in spacetime. But if this meant that nothing matters, then why does it hurt so much to lose our loved ones? Said differently, just because our dance doesn’t last forever, while we dance there is magic, genuine connection, and meaning. While we are alive, we grow and shape the world around us, teaching, carving, connecting. Eric Clapton sung it as “to keep the love light gleaming”.
From another direction, consider how much beauty there is in the world. Art, technology, family… as we connect, our hearts open, blossom, and we share. This gives a momentum to the growth of the world in small increments, and we get a chance to explore nature more deeply with each generation. Don’t you think that’s cool? I sure do!
Finally, consider that before your mind was grabbed by nihilism, you were fine. This isn’t because you just “figured it out” or “realized” some truth. Rather, you felt the pain of grief and it festered, producing a tormenting mental state. So, instead of lamentation, such as “things die, nothing matters” and the downward cycle of that thinking, take control. You can intentionally grow a better mental state. Said differently, your heart has been wounded, and with it, your mind. Its possible to reach for healing that directly. Consider searching for “Bhante Gunaratana guided metta meditation” on YouTube, listen closely and follow along. It could perhaps provide the keys to settling your fear, dear brother.
With warmth,
MattJanuary 22, 2014 at 8:46 pm #49585Howard WilliamsParticipantAs strange as it may sound, congratulations. Awakening to know that you are more than you think always involves the small death of realizing life is not what you think it is. You are an eternal being having a human experience. Being human is not an easy process. The purpose of life exists within you and is whatever you choose it to be. Having lost sight of purpose at this time is the opportunity to set your sights higher and decide what purpose has meaning for you. You describe what’s happening to you as a loss. I see it from the point of view that it is the start of your awakening. Again, your purpose in life is whatever purpose you choose. You’ve probably done all the things you thought you were supposed to and now can’t seem to make sense of the answer. You are the answer to the question. Life offers you the opportunity to work on being who you are, authentically and fully. In your highest and best knowing, what is that? Even an atheist believes in something. That something is that there is nothing to believe in. Yeti around you is order order and creativity in the world. For just a couple of weeks can you allow yourself to live empty and listen.
If you are finding meaning and purpose in the life that you’re living, it may be time to start looking somewhere else. The story always starts with you and ends with you. What do you want your story to say?
With encouragement, Howard
March 3, 2014 at 10:26 pm #52221gotye89ParticipantWell, Castios, I have only read your post and not what the other two have written for you as advice as I want to give you a new perspective. I don’t think I have felt such a high degree of grief as you describe but I can surely empathise. You must understand as many great people have said, namely Osho, I don’t know if you have heard of him but his work always somehow mentions death, for example one should not fear death and so on. But what I am trying to say is that this life is indeed made up of two opposites and without one side, the other cannot exist – day and night must exist and so on. Thus, you have experienced the intensity of one side and as time passes, at whatever speed you perceive it to pass, you will see the other side as well. Right now, I urge you to channel this grief in the right direction and not pursue anti depressants but find a support group – tell people what you are going through, communicate with others or even approach a therapist and just talk it through with them. Talk about how you feel, don’t bottle it up. I believe that sharing your story with another will help you feel better at least for a while. Rest of the time, keep busy, pursue your goals or if you haven’t try to set some goals after careful consideration. Set goals not only to go through the grief but the act of setting goals will make you believe that even if there is loss, life will move on and you must too. Just like night comes after the day, you must understand and try to go with the flow of life and understand that this episode of grief must be taken in stride. You must move along with it, you must feel it, you must talk about it but you must not let it prevent you from seeing that life goes on. I hope this helps. In a nutshell, all I am trying to say is that you must not make this grief own you, you must own it and channel it so that you can feel better at a later stage that you did the best you can at that stage of your life.
March 6, 2014 at 2:09 am #52367Ryan ViolaParticipantIF you are afraid of life..make a regular schedule of mediation…get involve in pure and good activities and live your life for your loved ones. It will give you great help to live.
April 3, 2014 at 8:51 am #54091RonnieCParticipantHey Castios-
I’m a fellow atheist so I think I have something to add here. Please remember that the universe was around for about 14 billion years prior to you being born. Yet that is not painful, is it? Well, the universe will continue on for another 100 billion years after we are gone, as well. Your experience during that time will be the same as the 14 billion years prior to birth – exactly zero. So there is no need to dread nonexistence, because you will not be experiencing it.
In the meantime, it’s like you’ve wandered into a party that lasts 80 years. You can find some enjoyment during the party, or you can sulk because the party is going to end. The clock is ticking, and you can cram a lot of enjoyment, learning, and experiencing in the time you have, or you can spend that time NOT enjoying, learning and experiencing because it will someday end.
It is true that for virtually everyone, our actions and experiences will not be remembered more than a generation after our passing. Wahhh! So what? Do you think that your ancestors did not deserve to live because we know so little about their lives? Of course not. They had their time and place, and they lived their lives. Now is your turn.
So go out for a walk, learn how to play the piano, listen to some amazing music, help a friend, read a book, laugh at a silly comic, look forward to a cool movie, learn how to be a good friend/neighbor/spouse, etc..
When its your time to get off this roller coaster, look at the people waiting in line to get on and think, “Man, I hope they enjoy that ride as much as I did!”
April 3, 2014 at 12:29 pm #54106AnonymousParticipantI’m very much in the same place. Everything has lost its fun. I feel like I’ve walked into a party lasting 100 years… only to find out after 30 years that the party is based on abuse and degradation of approximately 2/3rds of the members, or more, and that at best, I can ignore it, but I can’t change it.
I’ve worked in development my whole adult life. I dedicated my life to the service of humanity and have found myself powerless.
I’m disgusted by injustice but am powerless to stop it. Believe me, please believe me–I have worked my entire life to stop even a tiny bit of injustice, but it keeps increasing. The worst part is that the happiest people at this party do not care, not even a little bit, about those suffering due to our actions. 🙁
So I’ve tried to create a new life for myself, one that ignores suffering of others.
1. What do I absolutely love in life?
I don’t absolutely love anything. I get a small amount of pleasure from music and math but this is eclipsed by the guilt I feel enjoying life while so many suffer. I guess you could say I love justice… but it’s like loving something that doesn’t exist. I don’t love love because love makes mistakes and hurts people. Love creates a window for abuse. Love makes you forgive which is something that people just take advantage of.
2. What are my greatest accomplishments in life so far?
I can’t list these on the Internet, but I have an accomplished resume of public service which has had ZERO effect on the overall net amount of justice in this world. On the contrary, they are used as salves by those in power to continue the status quo, by highlighting the tiny sparks of so-called justice… which are in fact are band-aids on the real problems. To say I find my life to be depressing is an understatement.
3. What would I stand for if I knew no one would judge me?
Same things as I do now. People judge me and I don’t care.
4. If my life had absolutely no limits and I could have it all and do whatever I wanted, what would I choose to have and what would I choose to do?
I would single-handedly destroy the institutions which hoard wealth and destroy our environment by secretly wresting control and slowly put it in the hands of responsible, conscientious bureaucrats that were not informed of the amount of control they had. Freeways would turn into train tracks, factories made safe, slums renovated with plumbing and people gently relocated to safe areas, and so on. Slowly wealth would be re-distributed so that everyone lived in justice.
I will never, ever see this happen, not even a little bit. The word is a horrible place.
5. What would I do if I had one billion dollars?
See above. First I’d pay off my student loans. Then I’d go about trying to destroy the unjust institutions… if for no other reason just to watch them suffer for a moment, like they have made millions around the world suffer at the loss of their environments, their homes, etc. I would like to take the CEO of Exxon door to door and watch the suffering of the children who have no medical care, no place to live, due to the environmental degradation they cause… I want them to touch that child and I want to see them cry. I want them to suffer so, so much, like I suffer, knowing how evil they have been, first of all, and then to make it stop. You might think I’m sick for wanting revenge, but when you have seen so many starving children, so many broken families, so many lost souls, due to the injustice in this world, how can you not wish for that? Forgiveness solves nothing, changes nothing. Not even my heart, because the suffering of the victim is still there, and that’s where the pain comes from. I can forgive all I want.
People still suffer and as long as they suffer how can I be at peace with being a human being? So I want to make their suffering stop and if that means revenge, so be it.
Unfortunately I do not believe there is any way to achieve justice on this earth (violence will just lead to retribution and they have ALL the power) and I don’t believe in an afterlife.
6. Who do I admire most in the world?
Nobody. I don’t believe in heroes. I find that the most celebrated saints actually preserved the status quo by encouraging those at the top (“See? You all should give up everything so we can continue hoarding!”) and that those who worked most effectively for justice had to hurt a lot of people to get there. I’m disgusted by humanity as a whole and would rather not go on, but I had two children whom I bore before I got to this level of awareness.
It’s not my own death I’m worried about. I worry about what to tell my children about how to cope with life’s pain and frustration and their goals, when I don’t believe the lies we usually tell children.
Has anyone been through this? I feel that so many people who are depressed find salvation in community, but I have tried that and gotten nowhere. On the contrary my dedication to community and humanity and life itself has left me despondent. I tried love, ended up married to a con man and am now divorced. Life is not only meaningless, it is unfair, unjust, and devoid of pleasure.
I have no way to go on under these circumstances. Please help. I won’t kill myself because I have kids and if I die, they go to their dad, who is abusive. I just want to stop feeling so much pain all the time. I want a story to tell my children that is not a lie.
April 3, 2014 at 8:33 pm #54155AnonymousParticipant“you are the only one that’s thinking like that”
This simply is not true. Lots of people have felt like this. Most of them kill themselves, I suppose. Or they find a reason to go on. I’m looking for the ones that found a reason.
Of course nobody will care if we die, not long term. You seem to have a desire to live… You might not believe it, but some of us don’t.
It’s not that we believe our problems are bigger than other people’s problems. We are looking for motivation, not someone to swear at us. You don’t have to apologize for yourself, but ask yourself, are you helping anyone yelling at them and telling them how stupid they are?
“keep in mind that every moment you are wasting thinking for others, you are calling THE REAPER.”
Yeah, but who cares?
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