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July 23, 2018 at 10:53 pm #218439RamseyParticipant
Hi. I’m a recent college grad. I don’t have a clear idea of what I want to do with my life and I think it’s because I think that capitalism is bullshit. We all have to work on making ourselves attractive on paper so that a potential employer can hire us and bend us to his every whim. We’re supposed to accept being someone’s pawn for forty years and then we die; we’re supposed to accept that picking a job constitutes free will and not say anything when we realize that our free will to choose has been limited only to the freedom to choose a job; not a lifestyle. And I don’t want to mke work my lifestyle. I don’t want to have to pay for things that I’m supposed to be able to get from nature and I don’t think it’s right to make people choose between working until they’re too old to work then dying ten years later, or not working and possibly starving to death. So my question is why is life worth living if we only work to put off death which is going to happen anyway? I don’t see a future for myself and I’ve been considering hopping off this ride early.
July 24, 2018 at 3:42 am #218489AnonymousGuestDear Ramsey:
Clearly the life you described is not worthy to be lived, for you. There are more than two options for you: this life which you dislike very much or not life at all (this is an all-or-nothing thinking).
A third option is a different kind of life, one that will be worthwhile for you.
I don’t believe you can escape capitalism, no matter where you live, even in a small town, you are likely to encounter people’s attitude that fit capitalism. Even if you lived off the grid, you would have to go someplace to shop once in while, and there will be those attitudes that you dislike so much, expressed this way or that way.
So you have to navigate and find your way of life within this complex human society, find your place in it. It won’t be perfect for you, not at all, but it will be the best for you in what is available.
You dislike very much making yourself “attractive on paper so that a potential employer can hire us and bend us to his every whim”- this is another example of an all-or-nothing thinking. It is possible for you to make yourself attractive on paper for an employer and yet, to not bend to his or her every whim. There is, again, a third option, and that is to evaluate a potential employer and take on a job only if you have adequate (but limited, of course) flexibility and independence in the job.
What do you think?
anita
August 3, 2018 at 8:54 am #220205RamseyParticipantIt’s not about whether belevolence exists for me. I genuinely get upset whenever someone tells me that they want me to do something; professors who assign papers (regardless of the inocuity of their intentions), bosses, my friends, anybody. I guess that makes me a control freak, but why does it have to? All of these things (money, deadlines, work, bosses) aren’t inherently necessary for our survival; we made it so that they are and now they control EVERYTHING we do from eating, sleeping, healing ourselves; the only thing we control is how we handle being controlled by the corporate West’s obsession with corporate profiteering and prosperiy. I don’t want to be controlled by an ultimatum that people are forced to make- forced because the choice that we are expected to make is between survival and maintaining control over one’s own life, because NONE OF us told our parents to conceive us so why are we expected to be grateful for a life that is only valuable if it can be exploited by people in positions of authority that they think they earned ? I’m not a huge fan of the way that we organized society, and I know society is not going to change so I don’t really see a point in trying to “be the change I want to see in the world.” Maybe if more people felt like me I’d be able to start some kind of movement, but there aren’t enough people who do, so again, what’s the point?
- This reply was modified 6 years, 3 months ago by Ramsey.
August 4, 2018 at 6:32 am #220275AnonymousGuestDear Ramsey:
Often people feel very passionate about political issues, social issues but their passion, what drives them is much more personal. Reads to me that you are angry at your parents, underneath your anger at capitalism. That you have felt controlled by your parents and that drives your fear of being controlled by “people in positions of authority” in your adult life of the future.
If you explore and examine what already happened in your life, you will be in a way better position to know where to go from here.
anita
December 20, 2018 at 12:45 am #270085RamseyParticipantMy parents were never strict with me, so that’s not it. I just hate the idea that humans have to go thru life having to pay for anything and everything when we could have made things a lot easier and more fair for everyone. I also hate how people like me- who see what human life REALLY has become (a moneygrab) – are brushed off as depressed and never taken seriously. I also hate how the human world doesn’t care about anybody that can’t contribute to it. In addition to that, I think it’s ridiculous how people who spent tons of money on an undergraduate degree can’t get jobs right out of college anymore; unless they have 2 years experience right off the bat, and if they “were responsible and majored in something with a good return on investment” because that just reinforces the idea that we’re just pawns who are only good for furthering the agenda of the economic elite- who have ample free time and free will because they have money that they may or may not have worked hard to earn; and they want me to listen to THEM and help THEIR company or else I’ll be living on the sidewalk next to THEIR building begging for money because I didn’t want someone to own me for the time I’d be on this planet? I’ll pass. I want my time to be under MY control and nobody else’s. I also don’t want money. I just want to be able to craft my own life, and live it by my own terms. No IRS, no bills, no loans, NO EFFING BOSSES, nobody from the outside world there to bother me, nothing. I just want peace. But in the human world, peace is nonexistent and unattainable because we believe in a world where things HAVE to get done; I don’t. I hope everything falls apart so that humanity can f*ck off and stop shitting all over this beautiful place because we don’t deserve it. The way we exploit eachother and say that it’s not personal; the way we kill each other and say that it’s just business; the way we withold basic necessities from eachother and say that it’s moral because it’s being done for money, etc. Humans disgust me and I don’t want to be one anymore.
December 20, 2018 at 11:06 am #270237AnonymousGuestDear Ramsey:
I would like to read your recent post when I return to the computer in a bout sixteen hours from now a nd reply then. Maybe other members will reply to you before I am back.
anita
December 21, 2018 at 12:38 pm #270345AnonymousGuestDear Ramsey:
You wrote in your original post: “we’re supposed to accept being someone’s pawn for forty years and then we die”. You’ve been a college grad since the beginning of this year, correct? Didn’t yet have a job, therefore haven’t been “someone’s pawn” yet, I figure.
I wonder where your emotional experience of being a pawn in the working world comes from?
I am asking because I want to understand your anger, I would like to understand better.
anita
December 21, 2018 at 7:58 pm #270395RamseyParticipantI’m not entirely sure if my ill feelings toward authority are rooted in my childhood. I got the idea that we’re pawns in the working world from my observations. I’ve stopped taking for granted that the world is as the world is and started thinking about what the world isn’t. And the world isn’t a lot of things- fair, and humane being but two of those things. It’s neither fair, nor humane for people who “own” things (like resources) to withold said things from others for money- yet, we do not question it when we see people struggling to survive/living on the streets; no… we label them as lazy, or junkies rather than victims of a system that relies on the exploitation of able bodies and rejects bodies that have done all that they can (retirees). It’s also neither fair, nor humane for people to have to answer to higherups, especially when those higherups have full power to take away the source of a person’s income- ESPECIALLY when it comes to doing so in order to save whatever business some money (as though the coffers of a large corporation, or any business for that matter, matter more than a person’s livlihood. I also dislike the idea of meritocracy and competition. It pits people against each other rather than encouraging them to work together.it also creates toxic ideas of self-worth; “Oh YEAH, I sold more than you which means I get more money and more material things that I can use to prove that I’m better than you!” “Great job Allen! You’ve sold more gunk than everyone else here so you’re allowed to make more than everybody because you helped ME make more money!” But I think that the worst part of the human work force is that the vast majority of people will be spending most of the years of their “free” lives as a subordinate to another human being- someone who eats, sleeps, uses the bathroom, get’s sick, just like everyone else- until you’re too old to work and are no longer efficient enough to be exploited; that’s apparently the only time we’re allowed to be truly free- when we’re no longer useful to business owners. I dislike how humans come second to their work; even to themselves. We define ourselves by what we do for a living- as though what one can produce is more important in defining one’s personhood than actual personhood.
December 22, 2018 at 6:55 am #270407AnonymousGuestDear Ramsey:
I remember part of a nature movie I watched long ago, something that shocked me and therefore I remember it so clearly so many years after. It was about hyenas, this one hyena somehow found itself in the territory of a few other hyenas. I doubt he intended to get into that situation, and it really is not fair for a few hyenas to.. own a territory, correct?
Yet the group of hyenas chased that one hyena relentlessly and then did a horrible thing, bit its behind repeatedly and… bit its intestines, pulling it out of the body of the hyena that tried to escape.
This visual memory still disturbs me greatly, that hyena must have died shortly after that video was taken, many, many years ago, yet I remember it so well, feeling empathy for that one hyena who probably found himself there by accident, didn’t mean any harm to those others hyenas, yet his punishment was severe. Why didn’t those other hyenas satisfied with just chasing him out of the territory, why did they have to kill it so cruelly…
There are other thoughts that disturb me, those … sports and entertainment in Roman times, pulling a person in two directions, maybe using horses, so the person tears apart, arms pulled one way, legs, the other way. And people watching, enjoying it, it being nothing more than entertainment for them.
Cruelty and injustice have always been here, on Earth, it is not an invention of modern times. It doesn’t make current cruelties and injustice okay, but I am saying, it’s always been around, unfortunately, including in nature, cruelty exhibited by non-humans.
Those Roman forms of entertainment were outlawed sometime along history. The acceptable practice of parents killing their children when inconvenienced by them was also outlawed. See, there is some progress.
And progress is a value you care about, isn’t it? Making life more fair, or less unfair, less unjust..?
anita
December 22, 2018 at 7:46 am #270415RamseyParticipantI’m fully aware that injustice has always been around, but we- modern humans (humans with brains and empathy) know better than Hyenas and better than our ancestors. We outlawed killing sports and killing children becauze we realized that it’s inhumane to do those things because we have the ability to think deeply and feel empathy. However, the people who outlawed those things are the same people who think it’s okay to let those people who don’t have a source of income starve just because they can’t pay, and then imprison them when they steal so they can feed themselves and their families; as though money is- again- more important than a person’s ability to sustain themselves. How is a life where we either have to follow the rules to game that most of us had no hand in creating or starve, any different from a life in which rich people just go around shooting regular working people point blank in the skull in front of their families because they refused to bow down to them? Personally, I’d rather someone shoot me than starve at the hands of a predatory system that now acts as a middleman between the predatory elite- who, in the past, would kill/imprison those who didn’t follow their rules- and the people who rely on playing THEIR game in order to survive; we might as well cut out the middleman- at least that way we’d all have SOME level of dignity. Progress IS important to me, but I don’t think that what we’ve achieved is progress if all we’ve done was created a system that INDIRECTLY harms people on behalf of those who used to do it directly when their followers didn’t obey them. As organisms who are capable of rational thought, it shouldn’t be hard for us, as a collective, to see that the world isn’t OUR oysters- but rather that we’re being used as oysters ourselves. We create full pearls and are proud of said pearls, but in working for someone, those pearls are taken from us, and we can’t take full credit for being the one to create that whole pearl; we’re given small bits of each pearl we create for being an “asset to the company” we had no choice but to offer our pearls to; then we get back maybe a small fraction of each of our pearls and are expected to be happy with that and just accept that “life just isn’t fair” or that you should “make the best of what you have” when we can have more without being selfish. Why is it that when large companies fire groups of 20+ people to save money, or pay people sh*t wages they’re seen as economical, or smart business people, but when people complain that they don’t have enough to survive, they’re seen as selfish? I feel like enough people share these grievances, but are too afraid to put their voices out there in fear of being labeled too radical, or selfish, or entitled. But working class people shouldn’t be seen as selfish just because they want more than what they’re getting from this parasite we’ve created that is the economy. If we really WERE a progressive society, we’d see capitalism as the injustice that it is. Injustice may be part of nature, but humans have no problem subverting aspects of nature so that their lives can be easier, why not try and subvert this sh*tty notion of social darwinism?
December 22, 2018 at 9:36 am #270429AnonymousGuestDear Ramsey:
Do you have political aspirations, joining perhaps an anti capitalism political group and becoming an activist?
anita
December 22, 2018 at 11:33 am #270461BrandyParticipantHi Ramsey,
I understand how you feel. When I graduated from college it took me a year to find a full-time job. I must have sent out hundreds of resumes. It was frustrating. I waited tables until I was hired at a large aerospace firm.
You’ve mentioned a few topics but let’s talk about one. What you describe about employees being used as pawns has not been my experience. Some employees, once they get hired, decide to learn everything they can about all areas of their company while getting paid for it. It takes some time but often they’ll eventually figure out exactly what they want to do. They don’t settle for a job they hate; they search for a job they can love. There are jobs out there, believe it or not, that people love to go to each day. They then can work hard to become very knowledgeable in their areas of expertise, so good at what they do that their employers don’t want to lose them and other companies want to hire them. Then, if possible, they get their employers to pay for their masters degrees. They are in the driver’s seat; their companies become their pawns.
B
December 23, 2018 at 6:53 pm #270667RamseyParticipantDear Brandi,
I’m glad that you’ve found success and satisfaction in your work, and I do not want to take that away from you because there are very few people who are satisfied with their work- ~30% last time I checked. As for the rest… well, they most likely had to settle for the sake of survival- given up on dreams they may have had, all because they probably weren’t “realistic” enough; all for the sake of survival; which, again, shouldn’t be a person’s main worry; not in today’s world at least. The idea alone that people have to sell their time and labor in order to survive- rather than simply leave their dwellings to pick vegetables and hunt for food (things that are -by nature- communal)- is counter to this idea that we’re “free.” How is it freedom if someone HAS to work for someone else so they can get express permission to survive (money)? I don’t necessarily care about how ONE person can improve their OWN worklife- if you did, that’s great; but what about everyone else? Say I end up getting promoted to CEO of Nike; that’s great! I’m now a billionaire and never have to work again! Now I am the very thing I hate about humanity- a bureaucrat; a “leader”; an “owner.” It’s idealism at it’s laziest to just cite hard work as the recipe to escape being exploited because upward mobility is the path to becoming the exploiter. And why would anybody wand to become what they hate? The rich are and have been stealing resources, calling them theirs, and using their money to exploit people who can no longer get those things without money so they can get money to get the things that they otherwise wouldn’t need money to get had we not created a system that uses human beings as fuel, and just farts them away after they’ve been burned out. I don’t think that it’s fair for me or anybody else to be afforded opportunities to work when there are people out there who “aren’t qualified” because that, as I said before, creates toxic ideas of self-worth.
December 24, 2018 at 11:55 am #270777BrandyParticipantHi Ramsey,
I understand that you’re not interested in how only one person can improve his/her own work life; you’re more interested in the big picture. I only shared that with you because I wanted you to know that the career that’s ahead of you doesn’t have to be torture. It can be rewarding. It can be great.
Yes, the picking of vegetables and hunting for food for survival sounds pretty peaceful, I agree. Say we lived in a society like that and you became an expert fly fisherman, ate delicious fresh fish you caught every day but you had no idea how to build shelter for yourself. Say a neighbor who lived an acre away became an expert builder but didn’t know how to fly fish effectively. What would you do? Would you consider fishing overtime in order to provide plenty of fresh fish for him and his family while he built you a nice home? Or would you continue to live in your cold tent because you are dead-set against having to sell your time and labor in order to survive? You might say oh he can teach me how to build and I can teach him how to fish. We can cooperate with each other. Maybe he’ll agree to do that; maybe he won’t. I think that in a society like this people will inevitably develop skills that will become valuable to others who are willing to “pay” for them. You may say but I have a choice in the matter. I can fish overtime for this guy or I can decide not to and stay in my tent. What if you have another neighbor who doesn’t have that choice? Say he’s physically unable to build or fish but knows everything there is to know about calculus, astronomy, and physics and has written books about each subject. What would you do then? Would you provide fish to him for free, trade fish for his knowledge, or let him starve? You may say no, no, no, this isn’t what I’m saying. I’m saying that in today’s world we shouldn’t have to be concerned with survival. What does that mean? Does that mean the government provides each of us with shelter? How does that look exactly? Apartments for everyone or does everyone get a house on an acre of land? And who builds these structures? And then there’s the question of how to keep someone from breaking into your home and stealing all of the fresh fish that you caught for yourself. Who is going to protect you and your family? Whoever does it will want to get paid for it, maybe in fish.
I realize this may be a ridiculous example. I know what you’re saying. There’s massive greed and unfairness in the world. I agree completely. But getting a job and working hard doesn’t mean you have to buy into the b.s. You don’t have to compromise your character and integrity in order to be successful. And it’s possible to be content, happy and fulfilled within this current system. Don’t believe everything you read about what it’s like in the workforce. Decide what you want, the person you want to be. What do you want? What’s exactly is your utopia?
If you became the CEO of Nike you wouldn’t have to use your money to exploit people. Who says you have to do that? You wouldn’t have to be that a-hole. You could use your money to make big changes in the world. Positive changes that affect a lot of people positively.
B
December 24, 2018 at 2:08 pm #270781RamseyParticipantIf I became the CEO of Nike, I’d be exploiting all of my employees- especially the ones who get paid 10 cents a day to risk their lives working in sweat shops to make me some money, and you a pair of Jordans, but also the ones who have jobs in corpoarte offices, and in my shoe stores. And, yes, theoretically speaking, the people working in shoe stores should be young people with little experience- but that doesn’t account for the workers who couldn’t afford to go to college and have no choice but to rely on a part-time job such as working in a shoe store. “But there’s the opportunity to get promoted to manager.” Okay, but that’s likely a position given to one, maybe two people. The rest are left at the bottom. As for the people who have jobs working for Nike that have college degrees, what’s a bachelor’s degree gonna get them nowadays? From every job posting that I’ve seen, people need “minimum 2 years experience” to get jobs anywhere with a JUST a bachelor’s degree. Why can’t people just learn what to do? Because it’s cheaper to hire someone who doesn’t need training than it is to hire someone and then train them. What then? Should they apply to work in sweatshops, or something? This kinda crap suggests that a company’s main concern is what you can produce, and not anything else- not your needs, and most certainly not the truth (i.e. questions like “How can you be an asset to this company?, “Why do you want to work here?”- both of which are used to get a feel for how gee-willackers excited someone is to work at Nike, when the reality is most likely that they just need to survive. They’d replace you/fire you in a heartbeat if they felt like they needed to save money; to them it’s not personal; but to the worker it’s ALL personal; you played by their arbitrary set of rules, yet you still lost because they decided that saving money>loyalty to workers- but yayyy severance package. This is dragging, but work IS exploitation because without it we have no choice but to do it to survive- regardless of whether our bodies were meant to handle the stresses of a life of nonstop work within the context of capitalism.
As for living the hunter gatherer lifestyle, there is no way to figure out where that would’ve lead had the population not exploded the way it did with the advent of cities and industrialization, so I’m not sure if my utopia WOULD be people people living in the wild. I don’t even know if I’m looking for a utopia- having expectations that high is unrealistic, and will only result in disappointment. Also, if 1243 people were to be asked what their idea of utopia was, we’d get 1243 different answers- one of which answers is likely to be our capitalist utopia, and one of which is likely to be a communist utopia- which means that one person’s utopia is another’s dystopia. I’m not sure where I stand in terms of how society should be organized, but I DO know that other people should NOT be able to play god with the livelihoods of others; they shouldn’t jail people for stealing if they HAVE TO; people shouldn’t be jailed for not being able to pay for their healthcare; peoples’ homes shouldn’t be left to burn down because their money was in their house and couldn’t pay the fire dept (this happened); people shouldn’t be forced out of their homes if they couldn’t pay the bank in time- but NOOOO; sh*t like that is allowed because issuing an eviction notice isn’t a bullet to the brain- no… it’s a cowardly way of hurting someone. But my main main main point is that all of the BS that humans (corporations and governments) do in the world is because of money; and they can get away with it because of money; and nobody wants to do anything about it because they have a job to go to because organizing is dangerous and can put their jobs in jeopardy… and they they need money! It’s a vicious cycle.
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