Home→Forums→Tough Times→Guilt. Depression. Messed up life.
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July 31, 2015 at 12:00 am #80907
AnthonyParticipantHey man. The only thing that comes to mind with help in your situation is your not alone. I am currently quieting my job and moving back in with my father. I have similar thoughts that this is a childish move and others thoughts that I should be on my own by now and creating my own security. Those other suicidal thoughts you are having are similar as well. What keeps me afloat though is the other thought that death is inevitable. It will happen anyways so why speed it up. You live a life that you are creating and writing right now. Now you got yourself in this mess and you can get yourself out. With the proper ventilation you will work your guilt and worries out. By sharing your story and challenging situations you will get other people’s answers to very similar problems. If you are not happy with some of the answers you are getting from your immediate friends and family, then talk to somebody new. Keep doing this until you come across and answer that brings you the most comfort. Remember we are all fighting battles. You don’t have to fight alone. Find and join a similar battle and fight together.
Sorry if there is some misspelling and incomplete sentences. I’m replying from my phone and it won’t let me view my reply easily so I hope you get the idea.
Peace and Love Brother!July 31, 2015 at 5:03 am #80913
LosingItAllParticipantThank you Yolo.
Knowing that there are other people who are going to similar situations, does reduce the loneliness of being alone in the struggle. The pain is usually the reason for speeding up the end. If one can avoid it, the end does not seem so near.
Yes, I am precisely looking for a feelings of a calm comfort, to replace the churning, subconscious and (to my mind) well-justified negativity. I am on a look out for windows-in-time of peaceful existence; they usually appear when I’ve properly slept or on pain relievers. At present, they are few, short-lived and extremely volatile. As soon as the calm is detected, a strict guard becomes necessary, as the factors/thoughts which can destroy the calm arise with slightest of triggers. Engaging in those factors is very easy and the mind does prefer effortless pathways even if they are harmful. It then becomes a full-time activity just to stay away from those factors and to prevent slipping; if any interesting activity such as studying is carried out, there inevitably occurs a blip of time being lost in the material and not being vigilant. This blip of time is enough for the factors to take over. At present, I work up some motivation to carry out a task, only to be beaten down by the guilt. The ‘feeling’ of motivation is then lost. This has been a constant struggle.
So, it is not possible, at least at present, to use the calm comforting periods for anything other than being on the look out for the predatory factors. Suppose that a period of calm, for as long as it lasts, is completely invested in being vigilant and doing nothing else. Then, does a point in time arrive when I can let go of being so attentive for those factors, and can actually accomplish the worldly tasks without my mind crashing me down? Does intense guarding of the mind help create new useful slopes into which it can slip and avoid the harmful ones?
I am not aware of how my current state came about – was it the repeated negative thoughts about guilt and anger, which must have begun initially to carve out a new slope into which the mind slips so effortlessly 2 years later? Since it is difficult to accept positive thoughts, does it mean that my mind naturally has an attraction for negativity? Otherwise, I would not have accepted the negative thoughts so easily.
It will be a difficult life, if most of the efforts of living it is spent trying to fight the negativity, with no hope of that fight eventually becoming effortless.
August 1, 2015 at 7:17 am #80999LosingItAllParticipant🙁 started replaying the scenario for probably a thousandth time. anger and depression rising. 🙁
August 1, 2015 at 2:53 pm #81020
AnonymousGuestDear LosingItAll:
I was fascinated by your writing… I noticed a separation, a separation between you and … you. The above sentence, the last one: “Anger and depression rising.” You report what is happening to you as if it was all happening to someone else, to some alien entity. It is not: I feel angry and depressed. It is “anger and depression rising.
At one point, a long time ago, you separated yourself from yourself, becoming stranger to yourself. In this separation there is sickness because you need YOU back in you. You like to write: what about you re-writing your post, as an exercise, changing the sentences to: “I + verb + action. Your very first sentence is: “A couple of years ago, I was with a company, working a likeable but mentally demanding job.” Re-writing it, if you will choose to do so, as I am suggesting, would be: A couple of yeaqrs ago I worked with a company. I liked the work but I was stressed out doing it (more details about the nature of the stress: I ….)
Make life your own. Put you as the subject of your life. Put yourself back in your life as the where it all starts… do you see what I mean?
anita
August 4, 2015 at 12:06 am #81183LosingItAllParticipantAnita, unfortunately, I do not understand. The reason for not choosing to write in the manner you spoke is deliberate. Writing of a text, with with too many instances of personal pronounce “I” does not seem appropriate to me.
If I had distanced myself from myself, should the other me not be happier? If there already is a distance, can it not be used to my advantage to make the other self a witness and dwell in it?
August 5, 2015 at 7:53 am #81262LosingItAllParticipantAm unable to shake away the feeling that I was taken advantage of in my work environment; instead of speaking up I buckled down to their environment which was clearly harming my ability to concentrate.
August 5, 2015 at 8:29 am #81266AnonymousGuestDear LosingItAll
There is an advantage to separation- it is what the buddhist practice- adopted in the Western practice of psychotherapy- of observing your thinking and feeling instead of identifying- being one- with them. So not to act impulsively, reactively, automatically. On the other hand dissasociation to extreme is unhealthy because you need awareness of your emotions because in them, in your emotions, there are messages you need so to make good choices for yourself, messages, information that you need to lead your life purposefully. being separate enough from your emotions so not to react automatically is a healthy thing. Being so separate that you don’t know your emotions, is unheathy.
About your feelings of having been taken advantage of in your work enviornment, can you tell me more about that?
And when the guy there said “you of all people”- please share, what do these words mean to you. I don’t understand and I would like to know.
anita
August 7, 2015 at 12:49 am #81387LosingItAllParticipantI am not sure if I do not know my emotions. The writing is more of an academic flavour and so must read as it does.
My mind will link almost anything I see, hear, read or think, to the incident which keeps me anxious and depressed every minute of the day. Only studying is the activity which has the potential to take my mind off of the persistent condition.Although the environment was not suitable, instead of raising concerns, I adjusted myself. For e.g. the environment is generally noisy and my work (mostly studying) requires quiet. I believe it is the employer’s responsibility to provide the environment necessary for the skills that they have hired. Instead of raising these concerns, I adjusted myself – on certain occasions, I had to carry out double-duty (a night out) just to take advantage of the empty floor. Even though I spoke about this noisy condition, the answers that I get is along the lines of finding another job.
The “you of all people” term is particularly hurtful as it singles me out as the worst person among the 7 billion that inhabit the earth. “all people” = 7 billion people.
August 7, 2015 at 8:33 am #81406AnonymousGuestDear LosingItAll;
Can you tell me about the original guilt in your life, the one in your childhood? The guilt that singled you out of the seven billion people as bad? It must be heavy, heavy…
anita
August 8, 2015 at 1:25 am #81440LosingItAllParticipantI have felt being singled out for the most of my life. Very few friends, afraid of people and ashamed because of being quiet, malnourished, anaemic and bespectacled. The society seems to enjoy calling names to such people.
Any fault of my own, whether real or perceived, whether small or big, would hit me with guilt and anxiety.
I remember my kindergarten day, when the audience laughed at me when I failed to speak the dialogues of a play.
When I first played volleyball (middle school), my mistake cost my team a point and they shouted at me. Since there were more students than can be accommodated in the team, the rule was to remove the member (me) and bring in a another one standing by- in a round-robin fashion. I went out, but never returned. Every time we were out to play, I would sit on a bench and watch, afraid to join and afraid that the PE teacher would catch me not playing, and punish. This is the normal situation – being stuck and undecided because of fear.
There was not much money growing up, so the habit was to deny my share for as long as possible, so that the others in the family can partake of it.
There isn’t a single, original guilt; or if there is, I do not remember. I suspect that I was, since the beginning, a defective piece – both physically and mentally; else I would not have to go through such anxiety and fear. I do not think everyone experiences them as deeply as I did even in those early years.
August 8, 2015 at 7:54 am #81445AnonymousGuestDear LosingItAll:
Remember I asked you to write sentences starting with “I” and then a verb, you made it here- without intending to, I suppose? I think this indicates to me a healthier state of mind, here, telling your experience with you being the center of it: ” I have felt… I remember… I first played… I went out… I would sit… etc.
You wrote that you were made fun of and rejected by people for being quiet, malnourished, anauemic, bespectacled, for failing to speak a dialogue in kindergarten, for making a mistake playing volleyball in middle school, as examples. You wrote taht you were in the habit of denying your share of food, resources, I suppose, so that your family will have more of those.
You also wrote that you suspected from the beginning that you are a “defective piece- both physically and mentally.” And that you having felt such anxiety and fear is an indication that indeed you are a defective piece.
This is my input after reading your latest post thorougly:
I believe you when you state that you were/ are be malnuorished and anaemic (hope these two unfortunate conditions are in the past, are they not?) and bespectacled. And I do not believe these are indications of you being defective. Let’s examine you being bespectacled- all it means is that you are bespectacled.
I can see how the experiences you described in such an early age would cause you to form the BELIEF that you are defective. I formed this belief myself, that I am defective. You wrote that you don’t think everyone experiences anxiety, fear as deeply as you did. This indicates to me that your fear was extreme, very intense.
My fear was also very intense. I dissociated, developed obsessive compulsive disorder adn tourette syndrome. I performed many rituals that were visible to outsiders (for example turning around three times one way and then three times the other direction) as well as many tics, that is I twisted my face, my arms- ANY muscle that moved voluntarily- either which way. I was made fun of and treated very badly by peers. My shame was enormous. I quickly formed the strong, enduring and lasting belief that there was something very wrong, very defected about me (a multiple of defects). I formed this belief at a very early age.
Fast forward, it was only last year, after good psychotherapy (first good therapy), at the ageof 53, I was walking outside and it occured to me, for the first time in my life, it occured to me and I said it out loud (no one there to listen), I said: “There is nothing wrong with me.” I said it with an incredible voice as if – and it was- the thought occured to me for the first time in my life.
It sounded so strange to me: “There is nothing wrong with me…?” So very strange. Since then the belief that there is something wrong with me came back again and again many, many times. Over a long time with a daily effort to heal, using skills and getting insight, I am at a point when I am writing, here, to you: “there is nothing wrong with me.” It doesn’t sound strange to me anymore. ANd yet, a moment later, I am still fascinated by the concept: really, there is really nothing wrong with me? – It is still incredible.
I still have some of those tourette syndrome tics. I still have those troubling thoughts that make me anxious… and I am older now, but those things don’t make me defective.
Dear LosingItAll- when you lose yourself into defect faith- you do lose it all, as in your user name. There is nothing more liberating than believing you are worthy and loveable. It is not easy to change an old belief and form a new one. It is a process, a healing process, ongoing. If you get curious and excited about the process itself, about the little steps you can do today in that process, this journey, you will be on your way to a better life experience. Here in the post above you used “I + verb” taking ownership of you being the center of your life, as I see it. You made progress.
I hope you got something out of my share. I really do hope so. The pain of believeing one is defected is intense and I would like it very much if that pain in you is reduced, again and again and life will be better. And wouldn’t it be nice if you walk outdoors one day, younger even than 53, and say to yourself in wonder: “There is Nothing Wrong with me!”
anita
August 10, 2015 at 3:23 am #81530LosingItAllParticipantI know of the wonderful experience, of which you speak. It was only once that I experienced it, a few days before the incident after which I started falling apart. The calm confidence that I had felt during that experience was completely washed away by the incident and the thoughts surrounding it.
To this day, almost 3 years later, I am in a position that I cannot go on. Any time I read or hear any statements like “Of all people” or “Of all places” or any such statements which single out humans or inanimate objects or ideas, my heart skips a beat and I can feel a blip of anxiety diluting my mental state.
“There is nothing wrong with me” is incorrect as there clearly is something wrong with me if my mind is so quick in pushing any experience or thought on to the wide highway which ultimately leads to reminding me repeatedly of the fact that “Of all the people” in the world I am the worst.
Years of inability to speak within myself has physically rendered me dependent on the words of others. Even when I try to speak within myself, my mind, anticipating that the meaning seems false, casts physical obstructions which prevent me from speaking. On the other hand, to experience the full range of negativity brought upon by the incident, no words are needed, although, they do intensify the experience.
I am angry that I had to go through hellish experiences while the person who opposed me is living a full, happy life – a further proof that I got what I deserved. They won in keeping the society clear of people like me. Given that my inability to speak has resulted in lack of inner voice, there is no choice in front of me but to believe their judgement and annihilate myself. I hate this world.
August 10, 2015 at 5:21 am #81533AnonymousGuestDear LosingItAll:
Do you know people, LosingItAll, who believe in things that you know are completely not real? Religious people who totally, so it seems, believe this or that and YOU KNOW that what they believe is not what is in real life? If you do, did you notice how intensely he or she BELIEVES what he/ she believes?
What you believe about YOU and about the WORLD is not true in much the same way, and it is this disparity, this gap between what you believe is true- and what is in fact true- that is responsible for your intense suffering.
There is nothing I can do- absolutely nothing- to change your beliefs. I hope that you get curious enough, suspicious enough maybe of your strongly held beliefs. Until you do, until you examine and change them through the process required, yuo will live in the same hell again and again.
What is real and true is the pain you felt when you were very young, when the first person- a person significant enough in your young life- has hurt you – be it by commission or ommission. You felt the hurt just like any animal feels pain, without the ability to think about it. Problem is, without help from a healthy adult, you explained the hurt via thoughts that or not correct. You mis-explained your pain. You mis-explained it by saying to yourself that Everyone else – or most others- are happy and well adjusted and normal and so forth and you are the defected exception. You mis-explained your hurt to mean that there is something wrong with you for feeling the hurt and the fear.
Your hurt is covered by levels of mis-explanations. I hope you can get access to a good Cognitive behavioral Therapist (CBT)- to challenge your beliefs and thinking for accuracy, so your thinking matches reality. This way you will unearth the original hurts and learn the true reason for those hurts- learn that there was nothing wrong with you as the child that was hurt. You learn that there was something wrong with the adult that hurt you, thay he or she or they were blind or cruel or both.
What do you think? that experience you wrote about in the beginning of your post, you can have it again. Be patient with yourself, find the way, find the beginning of the PATH that leads to health and step on it, step by step.
anita
August 20, 2015 at 3:19 am #82096LosingItAllParticipantI hope that I again have that experience, although my present state of mind is disturbed because of continuous friction caused by opposing thoughts – if I see myself from that employee’s perspective, I am not eligible to work for this employer, having said what I said. Is this belief wrong? Am I being too hard on myself?
On the other hand, I am still providing services to them and this reminds my mind, every second of every day, of the incident. I am able to see that I am drifting away from other ‘normal’ people, in terms of the types of thoughts. If they hear my thoughts, they would probably call me crazy and yet, these thoughts to make sense to me. I am stuck in the past because no resolution has been reached about this situation – I remain in a persistent state of agitation and guilt, looking for a relief which cannot be had if I hold both the opposing thoughts at the same time. Or at least, I do not know to it can be had with holding those thoughts simultaneously.
I was unable to sleep last night, as my mind continued to replay the incident again and again, and every time I ended up with the conclusion that I must leave this job, even when I have nothing else queued up in the line ahead. I have wasted a *LOT* of energy behind this situation in the past 3 years and I am now left with very thin mental resources to take up any tasks which come easily to the people who have not been in, or have been able to remove themselves from, such situations. I do not know what I did wrong.
I will try to look for a CBT.
August 20, 2015 at 9:15 am #82102AnonymousGuestDear LosingItAll:
You haven’t lost it all. There is something you didn’t lose- I hope you find it in CBT. I hope one day you re-read the comments on this thread, re-read the part about your hurt and having misinterpreted it and that it will be helpful to you in a journey to mental health, to well being. It is possible for you. You haven’t lost it all.
anita
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