Hi Matt,

Calling it as I see it. Yes it is a judgement. My opinion based on the writings, my culture, etc. Raising these possible outcomes because when you’re in butterfly love the butterflies can sometimes cloud all rational thinking.

Axel – just advice. Just because you Can do something, does not mean you do it. But you know that.

Big blue

• This reply was modified 10 years, 4 months ago by Big blue.

Hi Axel,

Wishing you all the best!

Big blue

Axel

Despite the fact that you think it’s all resolved I very much fear for you, and your happiness with your wife.
It’s easy to think that the infatuation is dead and buried after 4/5 months but unless you completely and utterly remove yourself from ALL (and I mean ALL) contact with the object of your crush there’s always the chance that it will reignite- please, please, please for the sake of your marriage do completely sever your contact with Liz now, yes now – send that email right now. Tell her no more contact ever, ever, ever; I can’t emphasise enough how important this is.

What you innocently describe as ‘butterflies’ (which we often associate with pleasantries and excitement) is actually anxiety- a physical symptom of a medical condition which can escalate into a debilitating illness and develop into depression, bad experiences with antidepressants and even suicidal ideation and hospitalisation.

The thing about being anxious about situations you know are wrong (but THINK you are controlling)is that it can escalate and take hold of you without you knowing and develop into panic attacks which come and get you from out of the blue; these can completely frighten and floor you and stop you from functioning properly at everyday tasks (never mind work/employment). You can find yourself wondering where these debilitating attacks are coming from as they strike at any time (not just when you’re thoughts are with the object of your crush) but completely unexpectedly when you’re driving, cooking, with other people or at any random time- honestly.They can be so random that at first you won’t even associate them with your feelings for your crush- especially if you think the ‘danger’ is over.
Despite your thinking you are safe now- believe me, you are far from it. Please let your wife read this- and Liz. You are all very much still in danger as long as you’re still in contact with Liz. This sounds harsh but it’s so true: your wife is being very naive- you all are- if you think that you’re all now on safe ground. You could still be in danger of suffering the loss of everyone and everything you care about. Although this seems far-fetched, I’m not exaggerating; this can and has really happened and I want to educate everyone I possibly can on this extremely dangerous, potentially life-changing, life ruining relationship status.
I don’t believe it’s truly possible to get over an infatuation and preserve the friendship (even if you THINK you have)- and by the way, eight months is a minuscule amount of time to think you’ve proved that the title of this thread is possible. Even years and years later, if you hold onto that friendship, it’s ALWAYS possible that, even if you think you’re living in ‘peace’ with your situation that a ‘butterfly’ or real panic attack will affect you out of the blue. Once that happens you can find yourself pretty powerless to prevent yourself spiralling into very ill mental health (check out anxiety and depression on Google and see how frightening it is and how easily it becomes out of your control). Honestly, it staggers me that I have read a thousand posts on this subject and they never mention the dangers of mental illness- it’s a very real possibility for someone starting out on an infatuation.
Please, please have self respect and end it now and forever- completely- before it’s too late and you’ve lost your mental health and everything that was dear to you…

• This reply was modified 9 years, 6 months ago by Juliet.

Dear Anita

Your reply to axel is very positive but it’s still a very dangerous place to be- keeping in touch with a previous ‘crush’; things can change for the worse at any moment. I just wish I’d had the advice I’ve written here three years ago then my life now wouldn’t be in such a grave place. It sounds like the threesome above are in an ok place at the moment – having been open and honest – hope it continues that way…Just a heads up…

Dear cherrytree:
I too thought about starting a thread on this website but didn’t look into how to do it yet. Hope you will! In the meantime I hope Axel Curiosity doens’t mind that i address you here (?) Can you tell me, cherrytree what progress you made in three years of therapy? What kind of therapy is it (CBT? Focus on mindfulness? Just talk/ catharsis therapy…Do you get homeowork to do from session to session?

Hope you post a new thread.
anita

Dear Cherry tree:
No, I am in the U.S. Three years of Pdoc- don’t know that that is. So you didn’t have any psychotherapy? If so, it is too bad. Cognitive Behavioral Therapy with Mindfulness is it for me. I have suffered from anxiety and depression as well and am in the midst of healing currently. What a journey! I was diagnosed with Tourette Syndrom and OCD (had that since I was five or six), A variety of other anxiety and mood disorders, Borderline Personality Disorder and eating disorders. I am not free from anxiety and am working dilignetly at using the skills I learned. A year and a half ago I got off finally from 17 years of heavy duty psychiatric drugs, SSRI, klonipin and risperdal and such.

You wrote that this website ma not be adequate for your problems- of course not- it is not adequate for anyone’s therapy. For me, it is an opportunity to read again and again from many about practicing mindfulness and there are other benefits, but this is NOT therapy.

Is there a way for you to receive further GOOD professional help where you live? I hope so. It is a shame that you are suffering- i wish it wasn’t so. Can you get help?
anita

Dear Cheerytree:

About mindfulness: Take a few moments, a minute and focus on sounds around you where you are. Don’t try hard, just listen. If you manage to hear the sounds and not think of anything, just hear the sounds- then you practiced mindfulness. You probably already did, didn’t you? it is about giving the part of our brain that over-thinks a break from the thought-after-though-after-thought all day long. Just focus on the sounds, without thinking anything about the sounds or anything else at all, no images, no I like the sound or not, nothing at all. If you mangage to do it for a bit but then your mind wandered then you come back to the sounds- you didn’t fail once your mind wanders because minds wander. Everyone’s mind wanders. You focus on sounds, mind wanders and you focus on the sounds again… and again and again. Like the ocean waves crushing at the shore and withdrawing, again and again.. this is it.

You can touch something and focus on the feel of it, same thing, without thinking- done that- that is mindfulness. You can walk, if you focus on how your feet feel on the floor, just focus on how your feet feel than you are walking mindfully. If you are eating and focusing on the taste, the texture of the food in your mouth, not thinking about other things, just taste, feel- then you are eating mindfully. Being present with your SENSES, your physical sensations GROUNDS you.

There is the Task Positive Network of structures and connections in our brain that is engaged in thinking when we are involved in performing a task that grabs our attention, a task that we do not do automatically. Performing tasks mindfully means performing them with attention, as if we are doing them for the first time. When you wash dishes, feel the water on your hands, the feel of the soap, how your arms feel, your body.
Normally we do things automatically and the other network is engaged: the Default Mode Network- this is the part that runs amok in so many of us. It has a healthy function, to integrate our past experience so to perform better in the future but in many of us the DMN (Default Mode Network_ takes us to places well, you know where, distress, misery, hell on earth.

Giving the DMN a break by either performing tasks we normally perform automatically but with attention is mindful. Or if we just sit ther and listen to sounds or just breathe and pay attention to our breathing and to nothing else. that is mindfulnessl.

Basically it is giving the DMN or the “wandering mind” a break. A break here a break there, nothing you have to do all day long, nothing anyone, any human CAN do all the time. Just sometimes.

It sucks that there is no one solution that will work from now on and forever more- mindfulness is about giving your brain a break from the DMN run amok. Over time you get a bit of peace of mind, a bit of clarity and before you know it (weeks, months, years_ you find out that my goodness, I am so much better.

It is Sunday evening here and I am tired. I could have written this more clearly at another time, but did i pass on to you something meaningful? Let me know. i will look for a post from you tomorrow.

Take Care of yourself with a little mindfulness
anita