Hi Michelle,

First of all, I want to say that I completely understand that all of us have a limited view and understanding of your situation given that we are not in it and given that we don’t know you beyond what you’ve stated in this virtual platform.  So I agree that you should take everything others tell you with a grain of salt and question everything.  Even what society tells you about what relationships should look like.  What your favorite YouTube spiritual guru tells you, or what your friends or family tell you.  That’s part of the spiritual path—realizing that no one has the answers for us, we have to reach in and uncover them ourselves. Towards the end of my so-called “twin flame” journey, I stopped asking for others’ input, not because it wasn’t valuable or valid but because my feelings towards my twin couldn’t be rationalized and it felt frustrating talking about those feelings just to be met with analysis from well-meaning friends who wanted to get to the root of my fixation with this guy. Weirdly enough, it’s only when I stopped analyzing and just accepting feelings for him—and stopped caring about whether he felt them too, because I would never be able to truly know that and wondering would just trigger another episode of futile analysis—that my feelings of anxiety lessened considerably and I was able to enjoy the love I felt for him without any expectations about the future or regrets about the past.  And eventually, I met someone else that I now have a healthy, fulfilling relationship with, and my TF became someone who still evokes positive feelings in me, but is not someone I could ever see myself pining for again.

That being said, some level of analysis may be useful, and to an outsider like me, it seems like you’re attributing your anxiousness and need for certainty as the source of the problem in the relationship (rather than anything your partner has done).  So your response to your anxiousness has been to fiercely cling to something that many people (particularly those with more secure attachment styles) would have left by now, because on some level you’re clinging to the perception that you can gain control if you just learn to reign in your anxiousness. It’s okay to accept that you’re not giving up—you’re not letting your anxious attachment style dominate your love life—by letting this person go. You’ve already spent plenty of time in this relationship, given it time and energy and opportunity to grow, and at this point you’ve received clear-as-day signals that he’s not going to be able to reciprocate the way you’d like him to.

You’re not making a premature decision to bow out of this; in fact, it’s your anxious attachment style that’s likely been keeping you in this for so long.  His ambivalence and mixed signals is fueling your anxiety, fueling your hope one day, before crushing it the next, so that you’re left in a perpetual state of disequilibrium and confusion where you no longer know what’s real and what’s not.  You react by staying and hoping that things sort of figure themselves out on their own, that he gets clarity as to what he feels, when all signs indicate that’s likely not going to happen.

I agree with Anita that he seems quite selfish, in that he’s clearly aware of his own ambivalence and yet doesn’t seem to be considering, or caring about, the negative consequences that ambivalence may be having on you.  Has he expressed concern for your well-being, for the impact the relationship is having on your psyche and emotional state?  Does he know or care about the impact of his words—words that are immensely hurtful, yet give you just enough hope to stick around?  One of the qualities I realized I needed in a partner was being impeccable to one’s word, being cognizant of the impact words can have on others before carelessly throwing them around.  I also need a partner that is considerate and truly cares about my well/being, and wants to help ameliorate my

Anxiety rather than contribute to it.

I suggest trying out an exercise that I’ve found helpful in restoring a sense of equilibrium and balance in my romantic interactions with men.  Take a piece of paper and fold it in half.  On one side, make a list of all the qualities you absolutely DON’T want in a person.  Think back to your failed relationships and the reasons why you  or your partner ultimately ended things, and qualities you saw in past partners that made you realize you weren’t compatible.  Then, on the other half of the piece of paper, use the negative statements to create positive statements about what you do want—so, if one of the things you didn’t want was “I do not want a person who is flaky and inconsistent,” on the right, write, “I need a partner who demonstrates consistency and sticks to plans.”  Or “I do not want someone who does drugs or binge drinks all the time” becomes “I want someone who is moderate in their consumption of alcohol and avoids drugs.”  Then transfer the “positive” list on the right to a new piece of paper and take your time re-writing it and making it pretty lol—something that you’ll want to re-reference in the future.

At the end, if you’ve done this exercise thoughtfully and are honest about what you need in someone else and what has led to the demise of relationships in the past, you’ll be left with a list of qualities that can help guide you in determining how close someone is to meeting your needs and desires.  In my case, by referring to this list every time I started to date someone, it felt like I was using a concrete tool that I had created for myself that was based on years of introspection and growing to know myself. I started fully comprehending my pattern of letting intense chemistry drive my relationships, while ignoring all the ways those relationships were detrimental to me.

I also allowed myself to dream big and imagine that a person with all those qualities really did exist—in some ways, I felt encouraged to embody those qualities myself, since it felt hypocritical to want things in others that I myself did not have.  It might be worth trying out and assessing how many qualities your current partner embodies, since it’s not clear to me based on your posts what about him it is that is drawing you to him so deeply.

Dear Michelle:

“Even with the guidance of a therapist, I still need to be the one to do the work… Mental health and mental health discoveries I see as a journey, not a destination”- the idea behind quality psychotherapy is that there is a relationship between client and therapist, and within that relationship of care and trust, the therapist walks with you the beginning part of your journey.

You wrote earlier yesterday, “maybe I shouldn’t go sharing everything in the internet and I’m inviting the over dissection of things by strangers“- a therapist you meet in-person, and with whom you build a relationship of care and trust, will not be a stranger: a therapist truly helps a client within the relationship she/ he has with the client.

“This medium has been extremely helpful”- then please continue to use it, continue to post any time you want to, for as long as you find it helpful. Because there is more than one member replying to you, I don’t want to reply to a post you submit for another member, or with another member in mind. Therefore, if you want me to reply to a particular post, please mention my name on that particular post.

Regarding The Voice: you shared that you trust a voice/ strong conviction in you that “sometimes defies logic and psychology etc. Just a simple voice telling me that something will transpire or that words don’t feel true”. You gave an example of that voice in regard to a previous relationship: a man you lived in told you that he didn’t love you and wanted to separate, your “sort of voice” said “he was lost and.. he would come back” and you then very calm. The ex boyfriend was adamant about separating from you, but so was your voice (“He was adamant but so was my voice”). A month or two later, he indeed came back to you and you were together for 2.5 more years.

In regard to the current man, you wrote that you want to take his words on face value, but that “simple voice telling me that something will transpire or that words don’t feel true”.

You also wrote: “I’ve been through too many relationships that were not right”- isn’t this evidence that the simple voice you shared about did not serve you well so far, in regard to relationships with men, including regarding the man who returned to you, but only for 2.5 more years, not for a lifetime?

Regarding the current relationship: you shared yesterday that he left his computer open and you saw that he’s been looking into therapy online, “So maybe there is hope.. Maybe he’s been considering it more since our discussion”, and you wrote regarding the relationship with him: “there have been so many moments of true joy and love… If I were to bet money on this relationship I’d probably bet a good amount, because my overall feeling about it has been good, my experience of it is good, but there are moments where he has doubt and this creates anxiety for me”-

– you definitely answered the question stated in the title of your thread: “is there hope?”- you feel that there is hope, enough for you to bet money on it, enough for you to have a good overall feeling and experience of this relationship and you are adamant about continuing the relationship. The only problem you have in regard to this relationship are the “moments where he has doubt and this creates anxiety” for you.

My suggestion: any time you experience anxiety about his doubts/the relationship, post here, in a journal/ diary sort of way. Expressing yourself will probably make you feel better. Maybe you are not interested in other members’ insights or analyses, maybe what you want instead is to be listened to, your words being read, that is. Is this the case?

anita

Michelle, thanks for clarifying what it was about your partner that draws him to you. It’s natural that you would focus on the negatives in discussing the problems of your relationship on this forum, but bringing up the positives I think sheds light on what this relationship is fulfilling for you and why you’re so reluctant to separate from it.  In some ways, it sounds like this relationship has been a huge improvement compared to past experiences you’ve had men, and since you’ve seem to have made a lot of progress in this relationship—in terms of asserting your needs, being clear with him that withdrawing or recoiling at the sight of any emotion you show is not something you would accept, etc—maybe you’re especially invested it in now, because to you this relationship has acquired a deeper meaning, a deeper significance: this is the relationship where you started to discover your voice and personal power. This is the relationship that has triggered spiritual growth and experiences for you (meditation, introspection, finding ways of self-soothing, etc.)  I think that’s why it probably feels fated and super important.  In some ways it IS—but that does not mean that staying in the relationship is what’s healthiest for you or would help you stay on the path and momentum towards growth that you’ve seen to be on.

What’s important to recognize is that, this has nothing to do with HIM.  All this progress that you point to is actually coming from YOU and your increased ability, compared to the past, to draw boundaries/handle your anxieties and fears/express your needs, etc.  There is nothing you’ve said about your partner that really points to meaningful growth on his part, in my opinion.  Just because he is now open to the possibility of moving in together or because he is no longer actively seeking other partners doesn’t mean that YOU are the partner he’s looking for, and he’s stuck to that story since day 1.  While I understand your sentiment that his actions don’t align with his words and he’s not being honest with himself—that he’s turned out to be much more open to long-term commitment than what he initially portrayed—in some ways, in a healthy relationship, we have no choice but to accept our partners’ words.  To decide that we’re going to ignore their words and carve out our own interpretations and meanings is essentially to diminish their sense of autonomy and free will.  Imagine if someone told you, “I hear you buttttt I just don’t believe you for xyz reasons” to something you did actually mean.  Even if the person had valid points, it would feel pretty defeating  and demoralizing, because in your mind, it IS true.  Perspective is everything.  And from his perspective, he probably does mean what he says.  Even if his actions did somehow belie his words, he is probably not just going to snap out of it and realize “oh wait you were right all along..I can totally see the future together now!” It’s a narrative and choice HE has to be willing to accept and strives towards.

My advice—and again, I’m not looking to convince you of anything, just give you input—is to thank the universe for providing you an experience that allows you to recognize you own power and inner reserves of strength…and then move forward.  Allow yourself to be open to the possibility of a relationship where you don’t have to seek for inner layers of meaning or play the analyst, where the person is very clear about what he wants and is not eternally ambivalent, dragging you along for the ride.  It seems like you’ve been the person driving this relationship forward ….showing him what commitment would look like, what a relationship with you would be like, etc.  Why does he need to be convinced?  I’m not sure that always being the teacher (and in a way, salesperson) in a romantic relationship is a positive thing.  It’s natural for one person to adopt the role of teacher at times and student at other times—we’re all constantly learning and teaching each other as we interact—but when one person is stuck with the role of teacher most of the time, it can make things feel lopsided and burdensome and unfair.  Especially when it’s not a role that you were ready to be thrust upon you or 100% willing to accept.

I remember a therapist once told me, years ago, a story that resonated with me about attachment theory.   Apparently, a lot of studies around attachment theory began during World War II, when many children in the UK, Romania etc became separated from their caregivers for wartime reasons.  Psychologists realized that people separated from their caregivers tended to have different emotional and behavioral reactions to the separation, depending in part on their attachment styles.  Some children, when they had a substitute caregiver, were able to bond with their new caregiver and adapt to their new circumstances despite missing their primary caregiver.  Others, however, never bonded with the substitute caregiver and displayed intense anxiety, depression etc.—even when that new caregiver fulfilled their needs.  Not sure if I’m remembering this super accurately lol, but at the time I was stuck on an ex and I remember thinking…damn.  I’m that kid that refuses to have anyone except that primary caregiver, because I’m convinced that no one else can fulfill what he fulfilled.  Which of course, wasn’t true—at all.  Sometimes we just have to trust that there’s someone out there better suited for us, while acknowledging and honoring the love we did have had that no longer serves us or that we’ve outgrown.

Dear Michelle:

You wrote in your post addressed to me: “There isn’t enough of a solid conclusion here for me to feel good about moving on permanently.. some things cannot be determined between us, some will be revealed in due time”-

– I hope that good things will be revealed in due time, good for you and good for him, I wish the best for you and for him.

anita