Home→Forums→Relationships→Depressed due to guilt and fear
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July 24, 2016 at 9:30 am #110406AnonymousGuest
Dear Ravi:
You are back! I am so glad!!!
Congratulations for persisting with the studying for the test and doing as well as you did with it. Glad it is over now.
And I see how, now that it is over, you are focusing again on your love for Jerry. Love is very important to you because you are a loving person. And lovable too.
So glad you are back. My goodness, what are you going to do now, to relax and unwind…still hot, still summer time, so can’t do much walking or exercise outside (other than very early in the morning… or late at night?)
Wish there was a swimming pool where you can swim regularly. Or some sort of an air conditioned gym!
Please do post again anytime. I hope other members will reply to you, as you requested. I definitely will, every time!
anita
July 24, 2016 at 9:47 am #110409ravi_zimmerfanParticipantMe too. 🙂 First thing I thought of after the exam was to post to you here.
It’s not that hot now, actually. Been raining quite heavily since a few weeks. Dad indeed advised me to join the gym, learn driving and cooking and all this month. I’m also working on writing and music. Hopefully will be able to do something productive until the exam results come out.
I wasn’t actually requesting readers to reply as such but just hope well for my mission in their hearts. The kind of thing I believe in. 🙂 Earlier this month I made up with my other friend who had sent our chat log to Jerry. The misunderstanding is cleared up and I felt a weight lift off my heart. I just hope to do everything good on my part.
July 24, 2016 at 10:04 am #110412AnonymousGuestDear Ravi:
Well, I do hope you have a loving relationship, one where you love and are loved in return. And I hope that anyone who is reading this is wishing you the same. I am glad you made up with your other friend and that a weight was lifted off your heart.
You do seem relieved that the testing is over and optimistic about the future possibility of reconnecting with Jerry- I do wish you do reconnect with her then, simply because you want it so much.
So maybe you can exercise in the rain, or in a gym, like your dad suggested, and learn how to cook as well.
anita
July 24, 2016 at 7:55 pm #110447ravi_zimmerfanParticipantThanks Anita. I’m not optimistic, rather I’m scared and unsure. But I’m not one who gives up on what my heart genuinely believes in. I know I’ll persevere and succeed or die trying… no matter how long it takes. I need guidance on how to make her see through her delusional views which have blinded her.
Will do those, yeah. But truthfully speaking I’m feeling no happiness or enthusiasm within.
July 24, 2016 at 8:14 pm #110449AnonymousGuestDear Ravi:
If you exercise, you will see: it will jump start some “enthusiasm within”- it’s a biological thing (you studied a lot of biology, so you know).
As far as Jerry, I agree: you are persistent. You do persevere. You are quite amazing this way.
Well, for the purpose of having Jerry communicate with you again, first: can you handle the past jealousy? The anger? Can you be satisfied with what was without wanting more?
If so, what is the plan? Remember the last time you almost communicated with her? You got angry at her sister’s suggestion that you are well.. I don’t want to repeat that immature untruth that she expressed. If you communicate with her, how are you going to deal with her sister’s past words about you?
You have to settle these issues first before launching the next efforts to re-start communication.
let me know. I will be back at the computer in about 10 hours. Take care of you!
anita
July 24, 2016 at 8:38 pm #110451ravi_zimmerfanParticipantI feel I can handle the jealousy. The anger, I pray I can. Though I’ve had a couple of temper incidents in the past month but it’s significantly lesser than before. I don’t know if what was can even be back now. The March incident is a point of no return. I just wish she understands that her present views about me are wrong, and so is her decision to sever ties. I wish we’re back on talking terms at least, however feeble. The rest we can deal with as things proceed.
Regarding her sister, the question isn’t how I will deal with her words… the question is how Jerry will. I imagine the moment she sees my message, she goes and shows it to her sister and the two of them do a deep analysis of it, making out evil meanings that were never there, and then either decide not to reply or send something cold and hostile. I don’t know how to make her understand that she’s fooling only herself by confirming her views with a young child.
I had drafted an overlong message addressing her sometime back, more to vent out my pain than anything else. I don’t know if she’ll even read it or delete it without reading, if I send it to her. Another possibility is sending a “if I ever meant anything at all to you, then reply and try to understand what I’m saying” message. If she does reply, which itself would be a miracle, I don’t feel it’ll be anything friendly or understanding. This is all making me feel unsure and hesitant.
- This reply was modified 8 years, 4 months ago by ravi_zimmerfan.
July 25, 2016 at 7:19 am #110480AnonymousGuestDear Ravi:
Jerry is 20, 21? And her sister 15? Basically you are dealing with an add and divide…17/ 18 year old combined-Jerry? A combined-Jerry who is living with her parents in a very traditional culture where an adult daughter will live with her parents until marriage (and then still live with parents, hers or his).
This is a tough situation, Ravi- dealing with a (added and divided) 18 year old girl living with her parents.
I thought about this last night, about the last post I wrote to you and I think that what was cannot be brought back. And this morning I read your words, expressing similar view: ” I don’t know if what was can even be back now. The March incident is a point of no return.”
I do think that what-was cannot be brought back. It is gone now.
About your goal for the future regarding Jerry, you wrote: “I just wish she understands that her present views about me are wrong, and so is her decision to sever ties. I wish we’re back on talking terms at least”- so this is your goal. To accomplish the first part, to influence her views about you, you can only email her/ send her a typed message. What else can you do (can’t meet her in person/ call her). You can put together a straightforward message to her explaining to her your motivation, thoughts and feelings. In that message, don’t refer to her sister’s accusations, that will only get you… angry and lose focus.
And in that message you can suggest a communication you wish to have with her, knowing it can’t (and shouldn’t) be the same as it was.
I think that sending her the “overlong message addressing her sometime back, more to vent out my pain than anything else.” is not a good idea. And sending her an “if I ever meant anything at all to you, then reply and try to understand what I’m saying” message” is also not a good idea.
I think that a better choice would be to send her a short message (one page at the most), not venting your pain and not manipulative (“if I ever meant anything..” is manipulative), but honest, direct, straightforward, not infused with your hurt and anger. If you want to put one together and send it to me for feedback, please do and I will give you my feedback, so to help you come up with a message that is honest, true and which will give you a better chance for a positive reply.
anita
July 25, 2016 at 8:28 am #110483ravi_zimmerfanParticipantThat’s right. And truthfully speaking, I have a feeling that her sister’s counseling (for lack of a better word) has turned her against me even more. Not that the latter is malicious, but both of them share this delusion that the Indian culture’s dogmas are the ultimate truth, a boy no longer has the right to even quietly develop feelings for a girl once they call each other brother and sister, etc. I’m not saying that developing the aforementioned feelings is fully right, but breaking relations and treating me like a pervert and traitor is just extreme. I know that she’s being cold even towards a couple of mutual friends who had given her messages from me (neutrally, in one case). She and her sister totally believe that whatever they do/think is The Right Thing ™ and everybody else is wrong. I don’t know how to make her see sense.
I agree with your views regarding what would be right to send her. But some points really need to be considered in this regard before sending her anything.
1) She presently thinks the absolute worst of me. No matter how much she says “I have no anger towards you”, she’s fooling only herself. 90% chance is, she will delete my message without reading, and in the remaining 10%, she’ll read the first couple of lines at most and then ditch it. The opening lines have to be such that hold her attention somehow, long enough to persuade her to read on.
2) She has a tendency to take wrongly everything I say, look for hidden bad meanings in there, twist them to fit as a target for her beliefs. Even if she doesn’t, her sister is omnipresent to do the honours for her. The message needs to be clear-cut so they cannot easily make straw man arguments out of it. At the same time, I wish she somehow realizes that she must use her own mind and not let her sister keep influencing her.
3) She is extremely stubborn (now), refuses to consider any views contradicting hers and believes firmly that any relationship between a boy and girl other than brother/sister is unholy/filthy/sinful/whatever. Yep, even simple friendship. It’s bro-sis or nothing. Now that it doesn’t seem to be an option anymore (me calling her sis no longer seems to have any effect), I don’t understand what to say to her.
I was waiting for another friend to come up so she can advise me regarding this too… maybe then I’ll try to draft a message. Thank you so much, Anita. Truly.
July 25, 2016 at 8:36 am #110485AnonymousGuestDear Ravi:
You are very welcome. Again, I am so glad you are back to your thread!
I read your post above and will re-read your points as I examine the first draft of the message you will put together for Jerry, when you do.
A bit of typing-as-I-think: she will not consider anything but a sis/bro context of communication with you and yet that ship has sailed? How do you get around this… if it is one OR the other and the one (sis/bro)is the only acceptable option for her, and your feelings otherwise already expressed, how do you proceed???
anita
July 25, 2016 at 8:45 am #110486ravi_zimmerfanParticipantThat indeed is the biggest problem. In fact if it hadn’t been for that, we possibly might have been reconciled by now. She had called me “Ravi bro” back in April and I had taken the point to call her sister, but it doesn’t seem to have any effect on her. It’s such a paradoxical/catch-22 situation that I’ve grown bitter and resentful of this whole brother-sister concept. Maybe her stance on this issue can be softened a bit somehow to realize that not every loving inter-gender relation is brotherly… that I genuinely love her and care for her, never intended anything bad for her and our bond was true, no matter what her sister says. That a true bond transcends labeling and it’s not right to break relations like this. I wish she realized even a fraction of it somehow.
July 25, 2016 at 8:55 am #110488AnonymousGuestDear Ravi:
I think you have an excellent point, a possible solution to this paradoxical/ catch-22 situation: shift her perception of the relationship from that of a sis/ bro NOT to a girlfriend/boyfriend relationship (that is unthinkable for her, of course) but to another kind of non-sexual relationship, one where she would feel safe in it being absolutely not sexual in any way, shape or form. No words to that affect, no suggestions, etc.
So not sis/ bro but something else that is as … admirable, “clean”, “pure” etc.
Again, in that email, even though you know the sister will read it, don’t refer to her sister.
After you talk to your friend and when you are ready, draw the first draft, I am almost ready for it. Any thoughts before the first draft, I welcome those as well.
anita
July 25, 2016 at 7:33 pm #110545ravi_zimmerfanParticipantNot sure what else would she consider as “pure” as a bro-sis relationship. I had suggested to her that we can be just normal friends and clearly even that is unacceptable to her. Need to think this one over, what to say to her and how to put it in words.
I won’t refer to her sister, but some things I do feel like asking her. Like she says me developing feelings for her after 2 years shows her that I understood neither her nor her nature. So, did she and her sister succeed in understanding me? After those same two years, they call me a traitor and pervert… is that all they understood about me? Of course I don’t want to act in an aggressive manner, but being mostly meek and submissive from March doesn’t seem to affect her anymore. I probably need to be carefully assertive… somewhere between aggressive and submissive.
July 25, 2016 at 7:54 pm #110547AnonymousGuestDear Ravi:
I like your last point, being assertive. I like it very much. The message to her does need to be assertive. And calm. Maybe you should then mention the allegations, only in a calm (and assertive) way. As long as it is calm.
I don’t remember you being submissive in your communication with Jerry, maybe my memory doesn’t serve me well. How were you submissive before, with Jerry/ her sister?
anita
July 25, 2016 at 9:11 pm #110549ravi_zimmerfanParticipantI meant like, when her sister was directing all those accusations at me I didn’t respond back strongly or anything. I tried to keep all my replies mild other than the one where I asked her not to message me until she put aside her notions… after that I still sent her an unconditional apology if she felt bad (and got no reply). I guess it wasn’t totally submissive but I did try my best not to lose my temper or say anything violent.
Softening her stance is the hardest thing imaginable to me. She was never like this before; I don’t understand how she’s become so heartless and stubborn all of a sudden. I admit I committed faults too but I’m doing my best to make up for them now, genuinely. Can she not give me just one more chance in that regard. 🙁 I wish she could understand that it’s not like I keep attempting to make up with everyone who leaves me… if it were anyone else in her place, I’d have backed away by now. There are thousands of girls out there in the world (in her sister’s own words – “you have so many girls calling you brother, so enjoy life with them and leave my sis alone, goodbye”), and if I am still not having anybody but her in that place in my heart, it is out of genuine love. Lust or obsession can never provide the motivation to keep up at what appears to be a losing battle. I wish she understood.
July 26, 2016 at 7:46 am #110563AnonymousGuestDear Ravi:
I am excited at the prospect at this point, the prospect of you sending her a message. It will be a very significant practice for you to express yourself calmly and truthfully. Expressing yourself while calm will make it possible for you to be most authentic, to put all of you out there for her to read. Not submissively, not aggressively, but truthfully. So, when you write a message, do not send it before you have me read it first. I want to see its anger-free truthfulness. I want to see all of you in it.
If she rejects such a message, my goodness, she will be rejecting who you are, presented to her as-you-are. I sure hope she will not reject you. If she ignores such a message, that would mean … well, that would mean there is nothing at all that you can do. Are you willing to take this chance: to express yourself 100% as you are and then receive no response or a negative response from her (or her sister)?
If you are willing, let’s start the first draft of the message?
anita
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