Dear Ed:

I am replying to you later in the day, after I replied to everyone else first, not because I forgot about you: I thought about you first thing when I turned on the computer this early morning. I postponed replying to you because of your emotionally charged (for me) post from yesterday, the one I am now replying to.

“I will try to give some context while describing the ‘talks’ with my father… this topic is difficult to write about“- like I just suggested, this topic is difficult for me too, to read about and write about because I too had “talks” with my mother growing up.

“The first thing that comes to my mind is how he used to call me stupid, lazy and a loser“- and the first thing that comes to my mind about those talks is that she called me “A Big Zero”. She called me Lazy plenty of times.

“This happened most often when I failed to meet his expectations with my grades in school, doing chores or whenever he felt like it“- whenever she felt like it, is when those “talks” happened, and for as long as she felt like it.

“He criticised and mocked me for my appearance, my manners and social life…“- I am not repeating what he said to you because he repeated it often enough himself. My mother criticized me and mocked me too.

“Conversely, when I changed things about me concerning these topics i would be mocked and criticised for these changes as well“- same here. There was no winning during (before and after) those “talks”, no winning her approval. Everything, well almost everything was subject to criticism, mocking and shaming.

“Sometimes he would accuse me of lying, ‘conspiring’ against him“- it is as if your father and my mothers are twins. She heavily accused me of lying and of having all kind of intents to hurt her, intents I didn’t have, and when I protested and told her the truth… she increased her false accusations.

“The mentioned topics would then push him to talk himself into a rage, most often if I opposed his statements or opinions. Calling me things like ungrateful… while explaining the many things he was doing for me, while also listing all of my shortcomings and wrongdoings towards him“- not similar, but identical to my mother.

“I would be glad to share more about the contents of his monologues, but at around 15 minutes of his hatred I would start dissociating, ‘waking up’ when he was finished and starting to tell me that he… ‘wanted the best for me‘”- I can’t tell for how long I dissociated, from the first few minutes and on, I think. She didn’t tell me that she wanted the best for me, etc. at the end of the “talks”- she said it a few days after, in between the “talks”.

“My mother stayed mostly ‘hidden’ during my father’s outbursts, in the kitchen for example. She seldom entered the situation, mostly when the ‘session”’ entered its 3rd hour“-  My father was not living with my mother and I. There was only my younger sister. But the neighbors, right across the thin wall of the tiny apartment, they heard her LOUD talks but never a mention of it, never an intervention.

“She then tried to somewhat appease my father (‘I think they understand your point now’)“- his point was to relieve his rage by inserting his rage into you. Not a valid point, was it.

“Or asked/begged him to end his speech for the day (“don’t you think it’s enough for today?’)“-  she allowed him to terribly abuse you!

“I can only remember around 3 or 4 times in about 3 years when she stepped in to get me and my siblings out of the line of fire, making her the target of his rage. Other than that, she mostly looked away and had a guilty/ashamed expression on her face when I saw her during or after the ‘talks’“- I am sorry, Ed. I am deeply sorry.

Those “talks”, those “sessions” had nothing to do with a parent disciplining a child. It was nothing but dumping their rage their shame, their distress, their disappointments into us, the children they were supposed to love and protect. This is as basic and as primal a betrayal can get. And the crazy thing… all these years I felt sorry .. not for me, but for her: oh, my poor mother being so unlucky as to have me, a poor excuse for a daughter.

Well, Ed, do you see why I postponed replying to your post? But it is a good thing that I replied because it helps me process the “talks” and “sessions” I experienced myself, talks and sessions I kept on experiencing while continents and oceans away from my mother.

Apple picking season seems to be over although there are so many, many thousands of apples on the trees.

anita

Dear Ed:

“I didn’t want to give you overly used word or cliche words… I sincerely hope that my emotionally charged words do not hurt you or make light of your (probably still) complicated feelings… If anything I said went too far in any way or made you feel uncomfortable, please tell me“- sincerely, you used no cliches, did not make light of my feelings/ experience, and you didn’t go too far. As a matter of fact (and it is most interesting to me): never, in these forums,  did I get a response from a member in regard to my experience with my mother (I shared my experience with you more than with any other member) that was okay with me until your recent post. Every response I received in the past alarmed and disturbed me to one extent or another. But not yours.  I think that the reasons for this is that (1) you and I had similar childhood experiences, (2) you are a decent, conscientious, sensitive person, (3) my feelings in regard to my mother are way less complicated than in the past, and made even less complicated by our recent communication.

“I thank you for sharing about your experiences“- you are welcome and thank you for being the right person for me to share about my experiences!

“As I know myself, this takes a lot of courage, so that makes you very brave“- you are very brave too, for the same reason!

“Reading about how your mother abused you made me feel angry“- I can’t tell you how many times anger was not at all in responses I received. No anger meant that nothing bad was done to me… and that invalidated my true experience of course.

“I can’t imagine for the life of me how this woman could call you ‘an absolute zero’, as how I see things you couldn’t be farther from this description“- this sentence means a whole lot to me. Calling me a big zero (same meaning as absolute zero) felt like a dagger to the soul: the body keeps living but the soul dies. It is like… no one, no human wants to live if she/ he has ZERO value. I am trying to remember right now, at this moment as I am typing… trying to think why she said this (and so convincingly, loudly and repeatedly), why she hated me SO MUCH. And the only answer I have (not an intellectual answer, as in going over her childhood and how her anger came about, something that I have done plenty of for so many years), is that she ENJOYED saying it. There was joy in her eyes, in her voice, a joy that a powerful creature gets when exercising its power.

“Your mother was not the unlucky one to have you, you were the unlucky one to have her as your mother“- she used to tell me that she was “the best mother in the world”.

“I also hope that you are proud of yourself for standing up for yourself by cutting her out of your life“- no one has ever said this to me. When I ended contact with her in May 2013, I received no encouragement or support from my therapist at the time, a great disappointment to me. There is still a strong taboo about ending contact with a parent.. it takes no less than a parent causing severe physical damage to the child (such as landing the child in a hospital with broken bones, starvation etc.) to… justify ending contact with the parent, in many people’s minds.

“I also hope that you are proud of yourself for…  being here to help others and also having the courage to talk about your past and feelings, because you earned every last bit of it“- this is the nicest thing I can possibly read. Thank you!

What your father said about you, the negative things he said about you and about his intents, etc.. … that wasn’t true either.

anita

Dear Ed:

Thank you for the note. I am sorry that you are struggling these past days! You are welcome to post any time about anything.

anita

Dear Ed:

You are welcome and thank you for your good wishes and hot-patches suggestion. I am glad to report that after 5 days of inactivity, I had 5 days of activity so far (still taking ibuprofen, although less than before), including walks in the nice weather of recent. My mood improved as a result. And so, we are both doing better, aren’t we? When I just read that my words made you smile, a smile appeared on my own face, first time today!

anita

Merry Christmas, and/ or Happy Holidays, Ed!

anita