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October 15, 2017 at 6:07 am #173193
AnonymousGuestDear Monica:
You wrote: “Valuing reputations WORKED for me in the past, before I came to Korea”- I am sure that the reputation you had in your home country, when expressed to you, caused you to experience very good feelings, thrilling, electrifying, invigorating. And so, yes, it worked like extra special chocolate cake, for me, temporary.
You wrote: “Gyunnie created MY self esteem when we were dating. It worked, Anita. People went like ‘WOW’ when I told them whose my boyfriend, they respected me and talked to me. Even asked for my help.”- same thing, very good feelings, thrilling, electrifying, invigorating and… temporary.
In between those moments there were other times of desperation that you choose to not remember (examples: your mother’s rejecting words to you at home and Gyunnie’s unavailability, how difficult it was to end a date when you did meet). So you hold on to those moments as if that was all that you experienced.
You wrote: “I have NO reputation. No reputation = no self esteem”.
You are not twenty yet and the way things are, you are set for a lifetime of hunger for reputation, trying to feed that hunger and remaining hungry. This is so because self esteem, that feeling of being okay is something that as an adult cannot be dependent on what you think other people think of you.
Even if you were “the next first lady of South Korea”- you would still have this hunger. You would have moments of exhilaration, but at the end of those moments, there will be that aching hunger, craving for more reputation, more respect, more.
That hunger you have stems from lack of love in your life, lack of unconditional love. I wrote to you a post which you ignored, it was the first post on October 7. You ignored it because you had an update.
Re-read that post.
anita
October 16, 2017 at 3:33 am #173355AnonymousGuestDear Monica:
When you place your self worth on reputation, on impressing other people, then you are always comparing and your self worth is dependent on that changing comparisons. Here you are superior; there you are inferior. In your high school you were superior; in KU you are inferior.
To feel better about yourself you “judge people… A lot, almost everyday. From their boyfriends… to their weird fashion choices… that looks so cheap… to (not being sent) overseas, I judge everyone when I feel like they are not up to (your) standards”-
But in KU, “People are better, prettier, smarter and nicer than me”
Your self worth is dependent on who you are comparing yourself with.
Quality formal education is a good thing. Nothing wrong with caring about clothing, fashion and traveling. It is a good thing to think ahead about career choices, wanting to make a good living. Thing is, to place your human value in such, is making your self value relative to changing circumstances. Here it is high, there it is low… and over there it is so-so.
If you keep thinking this way, you may want to move to a university of lower quality, one that accepts the …99% of the students that were rejected from SKY, students of far lesser financial means who dress way below your standards, students with boyfriends of even lesser standards…
OR change your way of thinking and see your value as a quality that is not dependent on reputation.
A quality of a different kind.
anita
October 17, 2017 at 7:45 pm #173633
MinaParticipantAnita,
I have been very busy, sorry for not replying quickly.
You wrote :
“OR change your way of thinking and see your value as a quality that is not dependent on reputation.
A quality of a different kind.”
What kind of a quality?
-Monica
October 18, 2017 at 3:49 am #173683MinaParticipant[MORE]
Anita,
I have also noticed how negative I am these days. I do not know if it is me or other people.
Like I have told you before, I have not found someone here in Korea that I can connect and hang out with everyday
I have friends, most of them consider me as “good friends” but little do they know that I do not even consider them as a friend.
I know, it sounds very mean and hurtful, but I just do not see a connection with them at all.
At this point in my life, I think that my picky personality has become even more difficult to approach by others.
Even last semester, when I was a lot more happier and was dating Gyunnie, having a quite stable and happy social life with everyone including the Koreans, I was already sensitive.
I did not like it when people “boss” me around when it comes to group projects, but I did not want to “lead” either (I want everyone to take leads EQUALLY) or when I meet someone that has a personality that is different from me, I would took distance and think badly of them. I went out a lot of times to meet with Korean seniors and do some foreigners club activities which includes basically hanging out with the Koreans that has interest on foreign culture and are open to us. I did an exchange language program for a little while as well, I met a lot of nice people. Even though my major people does not accept foreigners, I do not care. I just forced myself to went with them, whether they accept or not, it is their business.
I tried the hardest out of all foreigner freshman last semester. I stopped trying after I met Gyunnie. I was so tired of not being accepted, and the fact that WHEREVER I GO, I have to be the one trying.
These feelings manifested itself into a negativity inside of me.
Today I was offended and hurted by something that my friends had said, it was something small and super silly but it ruined my whole mood for the day. I immediately called my good friend Henderson and Patricia (in my home country), cursing my friends (in Korea) out and being super emotional about it. Here is what it was about :
There is this “freak” guy in KU that speaks like 20 languages or something, and I get to know this person last semester. He was super weird but I did not really mind to be a distant acquaintance, but unfortunately we shared the same building (same time but different class) last semester so I often met him in that building. He would ALWAYS talk to me, again at first, I did not mind but I was already kind of annoyed because he would speaks in a super weird accent and would not let me speak at all. It was not a conversation, but more like me listening to his stupid lame ass stories that I do not want to hear at all.
He basically spoke garbage to everyone and he is a KNOWN weirdo in my home country community, once he stared at my butt and ASKED me to turn around to show HIM my BUTT. It was super creepy, I told the stories to my home country friends and they said that he is indeed a creep, they told me to walk away and say nothing if he ever approaches me again. Please note that ALL my home country friends do this, they say nothing and walked away when he talks. At first I also thought that it is a bit mean but since I was also personally offended when he stared at my butt I proceed to ignore him today.
I was with my 2 other friends from Vietnam and Mexico and we accidentally bumped into this freak. I ignored and walked away while my 2 others friends stayed and “talked” to him. My 2 friends also ADMIT that he is a freak but from the way that they speak, they are definitely accepting and is open minded to the idea of being friends with him. I was called “rude” today for walking away and ignoring him. That I have no manners, according that Mexican girl.
I do not know if it is indeed ME or MY CULTURE that is the problem. In my home country, such freaks would not even have any friends. In my home country, when I do this to someone, the only critics that my friends will say is that “Monica, you are being a bit too mean.” but they would laugh with me and gossip about him, they would NEVER say anything like what my 2 friends had said to me.
And please do not get the wrong idea that I am a “bully” because I would never do that If I do not have any valid reasons. Yes, a lot of the times, I have a very judgmental and bitchy attitude towards people that I do not know very well which indeed backfires a lot. I am almost 20 now, I need to get rid off this bad “side” of me. I understand that I need to be more open but I feel like this is a part of me and my culture and it will never change.
My standard and the way I think about who is “pretty” and who is “ugly” or who is “nice” and who is “freak” – is a PART of me. I cannot change it.
Maybe there is something wrong with me, but because of these little things, it makes me think about not socialising at all next semester, it would be better than having to fake socialise and suffer their judgments.
-Monica
October 18, 2017 at 6:39 am #173701AnonymousGuestDear Monica:
You try at times to not care what other people think of you but you do. I think that everyone does. We are social beings that naturally want to be approved of, be liked by others. This guy who speaks twenty languages, reads to me, that he is impulsive and doesn’t think before he speaks. I understand your need to not spend any time with him. And I understand you being upset for being judged as rude and having no manners by the two acquaintances that witnessed you walking away from him.
Next time you come across this guy, alone or with others, simply say to him (and the others, if they are there): “excuse me, I have to go”, smile and leave. That would take you a few seconds and will accomplish the goal of walking away. This is a good practice for future interactions with other people in your life that you want to avoid.
You recognize your strong tendency to harshly criticize others. Some call this criticizer the “outer critic” while they call the criticizer of oneself the “inner critic”. People with a strong inner critic often have a strong outer critic as well. When people criticize others they get a break from criticizing themselves.
The fact that a person is a foreigner in a country has its own challenges, but from my reading there are plenty of foreigners in KU and your harsh criticism of others and social struggles happened in your home country as well.
I think you harshly criticize yourself and this is why you harshly criticize others, which brings me to your post before last where you asked “what kind of a quality” regarding my suggestion that you “change your way of thinking and see your value as a quality that is not dependent on reputation”-
The quality I am referring to is the quality that I see when I communicate with you. I can’t see how you look like. I don’t even know what country is your home country. I don’t see how you dress, how you walk. I can’t hear how you sound, your voice, your accent, and I definitely can’t read the brand names of your clothes and personal items. I don’t benefit from your education, from the fact that you were accepted to a most prestigious university. I have no financial investment or expectation from you. I have no social benefit either. All the things that you value, they are not my motivation in communicating with you and for doing so this long.
Before I continue, I will ask you, what value do you think that I see in you, what value motivates me to communicate with you?
anita
October 18, 2017 at 9:12 pm #173835MinaParticipantAnita,
You asked : “what value do you think that I see in you, what value motivates me to communicate with you?”
This seems like a trick question, but I will answer it.
The only person that knows the exact answer to that question is you.
All I can do is ASSUME on why you are here communicating with me for months, and here are my assumptions :
1. I noticed that a lot of people in this website aren’t consistent with their progress and threads. They either come here for one time and left or just keep coming without making any progress. You are the kind of person that actually wants to see the process and result, you want to see consistent threads I guess.
2. I try to be as detailed and clear as possible explaining my situation so it was easier for you to understand on where I was coming from and my problems from my perspective.
3. You care. That is why you have been on this website for almost 3 years now. I know that you are not a certified therapist but you research a lot about psychology in general. You used a lot of different terms / perspectives and logic combined to analyse people’s problems, you are very smart but more than that – it is because you care about people that you always willingly try to help them here.
4. I am open to suggestion and advices from others.
5. I am willing to explore more about my problems and provide honest information to you.
These are all the reasons I can think about, I am probably way off from your real motive or reason but I gave it a try.
-Monica
October 18, 2017 at 9:21 pm #173839MinaParticipantI understand that you are trying to make go see my own value beyond KU, my clothes, my boyfriend etc
My value as a human being.
But sometimes I wonder why people are friends or why my ex boyfriends took a like on me at all..
Is it really because of my value as a human being or is it because I am pretty?
Because I have money and I am smart?
Or because I dress well?
I asked this to Gyunnie once. He was honest, said that he took interest at me first because I was pretty but he told me a pretty face is never enough for him to date someone.
He told me even if I am fat or ugly, he would still date me if I have this same exact personality.
He was probably the 2nd person that saw my “human being” value other than my best friend for 6 years, Jessica.
-Monica
October 19, 2017 at 11:45 am #173897AnonymousGuestDear Monica:
Regarding your post before last: the fact that you have been consistent and kept posting (#1) made it possible for me to learn this much about you. The fact that you have been detailed and clear (#2) made it possible for me to understand as much as I have so far. The fact that you have been open to suggestion and advice (#4) and that you have been willing to explore more about your problems and provide honest information to me (#5) encouraged me to keep communicating with you.
Regarding your most recent post, you mentioned the following values which have not and are not my motivation to communicate with you: your attendance of a prestigious university (KU), your clothes/ dressing well, you having a boyfriend, being pretty, being smart (beyond the ability to learn and communicate, that is), having money.
My answer to my question to you: “what value (that I see in you) motivates me to communicate with you?”-
your need to be accepted approvingly, to be loved and to love in return.
If you could see this value in you and in others, you will feel this ongoing calm, in between the stresses of daily life, a calm that will carry you through.
anita
October 20, 2017 at 2:41 am #173967MinaParticipantAnita,
“your need to be accepted approvingly, to be loved and to love in return.”
can you please explain in more details?
-Monica
October 20, 2017 at 5:42 am #173977AnonymousGuestDear Monica:
It means that you would feel okay most of the time and when distressed, not for long and not as intensely as you have felt before. It means you will be calm, okay with being you. It means there will be no voices in you criticizing you, telling you that you are a bad person for feeling this way or that way. Those voices of the past will weaken over time and be gone, until it is only you, in your own brain, approving yourself.
It doesn’t mean that you approve everything that you do, but you approve of the one doing what you do. You approve of your deepest motivation, being a good motivation, that is, to love and be loved in return. So when you performed a behavior you disapprove of (your own authentic voice disapproving), you evaluate the behavior and determine to perform another behavior in the future. You evaluate your behavior with a gentle attitude toward yourself, not beating yourself up.
It means that when you feel angry, you don’t feel that you are a bad person for feeling angry. At anyone!
It means that you no longer feel shame.
It means that you no longer compare your status to others, feeling superior or inferior to this person or that person, to this group of people or to that group of people.
It means that in your interactions with another you think: how will this benefit me and is it going to benefit the other as well? And you communicate with other with the stated intent of a win-win interaction and overall, a win-win relationship.
It means you stay away from abusive people, volunteering to take no abuse from no one.
It means that you are not loyal to anyone at all at the expense of your own well-being (except for extreme, momentary circumstances and some instances in parenthood, with your minor children)
It means that you are not fake nice with people although social lubrication, in great moderation, is necessary so to move easily in a group of people.
It means you don’t have hidden agendas, that you state your motives honestly, clearly.
It means you are assertive, not passive and not aggressive.
It means you no longer wish to die, as you have wished many times. It will happen naturally, you accept it but you don’t rush it in any way. You take good physical care of yourself, pay attention to your actions so that they promote your physical (and emotional) well-being.
It means you are willing to take an honest look at anyone, including your parents, and determine at any time, if it is a relationship that is working for you or against you and decide accordingly. Again, loyalty to no one at the expense of your well-being.
How is my explanation so far?
anita
October 20, 2017 at 7:15 am #173993MinaParticipantAnita,
Yes, I understand.
Thanks for the detailed explanation, it means a lot to me.
I do not want to die anymore, I still have quite a few personal goals and dreams that I definitely want to do in the future. I can sense hope now.
You wrote :
“It means you don’t have hidden agendas, that you state your motives honestly, clearly.”
Can you explain about this?
—
I understand that for 4 months, I was closing myself from everyone, even my closest friends and parents.
I realise that it is not because I was too tired to explain, it was because I was afraid that they would not understand me.
It was really tiring for me, rejecting everyone that cares about me, because I was so angry … and anger is a self-defense for me to reject them before they reject me.
But if I never give those people a chance how can I find out whether they accept or reject me?
I admit that as of right now, I am still not ready to give new people chances. and that I still use anger as a self-defense and I avoid social related events with a lot of different strangers in order not to get hurt or be shaken up mentally (considering how sensitive and vulnerable I am to critics and negative views)
I guess that I was very hurt badly (mentally) during those 4 months, I cannot remember any moment during those 4 months where I was truly happy and did not think about my ex boyfriend or KU. I cannot think of a moment where I did not feel like I was in hell.
Right now, I am not in heaven but I am not in hell anymore.
I reached out to my close friends in my home country and also my parents, they know about my current situation very well right now and is willing to take on a compromise and let me go home when I feel distressed.
I do not feel alone anymore.
I really feel their sincere support for me.
The thing is, the aftermath of all those things that happened during those 4 months was so deeply integrated inside.
Yes, most of these issues I already had before but it became somehow bigger and more intense after it.
I want to re-integerate to the real society, but a lot of the after effects of that 4 months is taking a toll as well.
-Monica
October 20, 2017 at 7:36 am #173999MinaParticipant[MORE]
There is that one day during the Thanksgiving week, where I just hit the lowest.
The lowest I have ever been for 19 years, even more lower than my June/July period.
I felt very lost and worthless, like I do not matter in this world at all.
I had a chronic insomnia and I always cry while sleeping. I would take a walk at 3-4am in the morning just to make my body to feel tired. I have an anxiety attack that is quite severe when I heard loud noises.
I was faced with a big decision to stay or to move to Singapore while battling a depression and a tough break up, being in Korea alone without any family or any reliable friends. Facing difficulties like languages and studying here in KU.
The only person that I can talk to on the daily basis was you.
Until I decided to reach out to my parents and my friends.
I was never alone.
I was just somehow too occupied with my own concerns, my dreams, and my pain that I was not able to see the fact that they care and will listen. I just need to give them a chance.
I realise that people cannot go give them your hands to help you If you never let them know about your suffering or problem.
It is like I was stuck in this elevator and I was not willing to tell anyone, even though I want to get out,
A lot of times in life, there are moments where you cannot get out if by yourself and you need others help and support.
I realise that all I need was to call someone to get me out. Anyone.
I did that and got out of the elevator.
Now I want to get out of the building after being stuck in that elevator for 4 months.
But I am too afraid, because I spent such a long time in that dark and empty elevator alone. I am afraid that the outside is going to be more scarier than being stuck at that elevator and that I feel like I spent too much time alone in that elevator that I can adjust to life and people outside the elevator.
I want to STOP isolating myself from others and from the society, but as I have mentioned above, I find it really challenging.
-Monica
October 20, 2017 at 9:02 am #174007AnonymousGuestDear Monica:
You are welcome. Regarding “It means you don’t have hidden agendas, that you state your motives honestly, clearly”- I was thinking particularly about the (former?) male friend you had, the one that took you to the airport, the one who had a crush on you, who spent some money on you when getting together, who you thought viewed you as a “pretty face”.
I think that your expressed agenda/ motivation for the association with him was friendship (you referred to him as a “best friend”), but the hidden agenda was to feel attended to/ admired/wanted.
Regarding “I realise that all I need was to call someone to get me out. Anyone.”- I am glad you are out of the elevator. Regarding getting out of the building, I hope you don’t call just “Anyone” for help, that you are selective about who you interact with and about the kind of interaction. Not everyone will help you when you need help; some will help themselves at your expense. Again, it is the win-win that is the way to go about interacting with people: honest expressed agendas.
You experienced a tough time and the tough time is not over, except that there is significant improvement. Don’t expect perfection. You wrote that you are not in heaven anymore but not in hell, not being in either one of those, you are in Reality.
Make life as simple and as calm as you can make it. When distressed take one step at a time, one moment at a time, looking ahead just to that next moment, not far ahead into the future.
anita
October 20, 2017 at 9:03 am #174009AnonymousGuest* didn’t get submitted correctly…
October 20, 2017 at 10:13 pm #174059MinaParticipantAnita,
Lets talk about my male friend issues. I remember putting it off for Gyunnie a few weeks ago, sorry for that.
I was not really comfortable putting on any kind of focus or attention to any other guys but Gyunnie, but now I am comfortable and is willing to talk to you about it. (lets refer the friend as Jake)
Jake was a friend that I have been close with for around 3 years. But we become “really” close only after I moved to Korea this year. We were already close as friends when I was dating Gyunnie, I always refer him as a friend to everyone including Gyunnie. Always.
There is NEVER a moment where I refer him as more or somehow giving him hope that HE is MORE.
To give you a background on Jake, he never fall in love with anyone for 19 years of his life. All of his relationship are “fun” relationships, or basically him picking up any girls that he thinks pretty, dates them and break up.
Jake is not a good looking guy (for me personally) – but he is popular and is a very nice person. He has quite a lot of friends, both girls and guys, but none of them really connect with him on a personal deep level except for me.
It is in my nature to build a deep friendship with someone. I do not have tons of friends, but I have a lot that I can always talk to about ANYTHING. From death to love to marriage to my parents problems, basically I love to explore and talk about deep things in life.
Here is the catch on everything, rather than me liking being admired, I still continue being friends with him because I truly like him as a friend.
I feel like his gender became the problem, not necessarily his personality. If Jake were a girl, I would still be good friends with her, and we would not have such problems. There aren’t a lot of people that I can connect deeply and personally so even one friend is precious to me.
After an improvements on my side after the whole fiasco with Gyunnie ended, my mind became a lot more cleared, I feel like I provided a few informations to you when I was very mad and defensive over someone trying to replace my ex boyfriend so the information does not seems so accurate right now.
He never actually said anything about my “pretty face” or refer me to it or even implying that he is friends with me only because of my face. It was all an assumption that I believed in my mind. Like I have told you above, I have this very negative mindset that all people can see from me are material values and superficial values, I know that they actually see me beyond that, and that is the main reason why we are good friends.
Jake sees that value as well, that he won’t get judge by me, and that I can be very open minded and straight forward when I am close with someone. My close friends are aware they they are always welcome to criticise me about anything and I won’t get offended. It is true. I accept the advice of others when I trust them.
Jake was one my friend that actually cared about me during this 4 months. He even looked up articles about depressed people to help communicate with me, Jake is a very good friend and there are a lot of times when I feel very touched and supported.
I care about Jake as a friend and as a human being, I really do.
I LOVE him as a friend and I LOVE being his friend. I feel like I had found another friend that could lasts for a lifetime thanks to my depression. That was one of the good that comes out of those 4 months, I became closer to Jake (as a friend) and I gained another diamond friend.
The problem is, I think Jake himself is very confused on his feelings about me. He had never fall in love, so he ASSUME that what we have right now is love. My friendship with him was probably his first real relationship (as a human being) that is personal, honest, loyal and constant. I get the sense that even though he has a lot of friends and even though he trusts them as well, our friendship is deeper and more accepting.
We both know that when one of us is at the lowest point, no matter how low, we will help each other. We won’t judge each other and we will definitely support each other. We have that kind of bond.
That friendship bond vs love bond is a very different bond for me.
It is almost impossible for such bond to turn into love.
I like eating both noodle and chocolate. For me noodle is Jake, and chocolate is my boyfriend. I love both but they are different and cannot be combined together.
More than that, I do not feel any attraction to Jake as well.
He is the best friend ever but he is not boyfriend material to me. Do you get what I mean by this?
When it comes to friendship, my standards are : they have to be good people , not a judgmental person, is accepting of me, is fun, is able to carry deep conversation with me. When it comes to their outer appearance, I do not care at all.
When it comes to love, my standards are : he has to be smart (smarter than me if possible), open minded, definitely have to go to a college, he has to be able to lead my future family both financially and socially, he has to treat my parents well, he has to be a logical but kind hearted guy. When it comes to their outer appearance, I care since my preference is skinny guys and guys that dresses well.
Does it makes sense to you that I love him as a friend but I hate him as a partner / boyfriend?
For me, friendship and love has a very different standards and there is a very clear line.
My first love (lets refer him to Ryan) and Gyunnie were good friends to me as well, but they have their limits as friends.
I can tell 80-90 percent of what I am feeling to my boyfriend, while when I am with my best friend, I can almost tell them 100 percent about anything.
I am comfortable with Ryan, Gyunnie and Jake for different reasons.
Ryan and Gyunnie`s support is a lot more intense, as they are biased with their love to me, my boyfriend often went out of their way to defend and help me with any problems, they are that one special person in my life because you can only have 1 boyfriend, right? While you can have a few best friends.
Jake`s support is steady and unbiased, he is not wiling to go out of his ways and lose friends just to defend me, he is willing to help but not get directly involved with my problems while my boyfriend are willing to.
That is how I see it. Jake is the perfect best friend but not a suitable partner for me.
My question are :
1. How can I make Jake understands this?
2. Jake has never directly confessed, so me bringing this out to him first would be very rude and presumptuous.
3. I have described everything in details, do you think I am wrong for having a very clear standards and put Jake on the friend-zone?
4. I still want to continue being his friends, as I like being his friend and I appreciate him as my best friend. I want him to understand what we have (as friends) is as good as a love relationship, and that i love both my friends and boyfriend in a very different way, but what I am feeling for BOTH of them are indeed love in a different perspective and aspect.
5. Even If I am attracted to him, our relationship won’t work out, our personality is way too different and I already “knew” too much about him, both bad and good things, because we have a very deep and personal relationship as friends already.
Sorry if it is too long, too much unnecessary details as well but I feel like people cannot really understand why cant I date Jake but still want to be his friend
-Monica
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